Go to Leavenworth for 18 months, lose most of your net worth, beg for your job back. . .

. . .get it back but at a fraction of your previous salary, under much scrutiny, criticism and threats, with no margin for error and then tell me that Michael Vick is getting off easy.

He did the time for the crime he committed. He lost a lot, not just materially and financially. No matter what he does going forward many folks, including many right here on DU will hate him, they (you) have that right. He will forever have to carry that shame, in many ways despite the opportunity to play football and make a good living he will have it tougher being in the spotlight, than if he were your normal ex-con who can live in anonymity.

I don't feel sorry for Michael Vick, but I have no problem with him getting a second chance in the NFL and yes I believe he has paid his price and will continue to pay the price. Americans are passionate about their animals and they are passionate about their sports. It won't surprise me if he and the Philadelphia Eagles will be subjected to threats and will require extra security.

I understand the anger directed towards him but one thing that really bothers me about this country is that we believe that EVERY CRIME is deserving of the death penalty (not literally but figuratively).

People need to be held accountable for their actions, but after they have paid their price through society, they need the opportunity to rehabilitate themselves, not just for their own lively hood but for society's sake.

He's the only damn torturer this country got up the guts to prosecute. And he has no business ever forgetting what he did.

He could come back as the best damned football ever. . .he will not make it to the Hall of Fame and he probably never coach. He will never get another endorsement. He will never have a career outside of football.

He will forever be known as a felon, America will never let him forget that.

. . .they do so with a certain amount anonymity that Vick will never enjoy.

If ex con gets a job somewhere in the overwhelming majority of cases there is not someone protesting his employer, heck in many cases some would praise his employer for giving him a second chance.

He gets to live with that. I'm sure the average ex con would rather make the money he makes and have the job he has than have all that anonymity at $8.00/hr. Seriously.

I frankly believe that criminal and court records should become sealed or destroyed after a period of time.

is make a touchdown, run a dazzling 2min, etc, etc, and all will not merely be forgiven but forgot...you get the drift = Americans are stupid, it's just a matter of time before they're back rooting at the trough of American Corporate Sports

:popcorn:

:evilgrin:

...

. . .and according to his sentence he is free to rebuild his life and rebuild his career. It does not matter what his crime was, once you have completed your sentence you have completed it.

is actually the victim.

To see that i was not calling him a victim, please don't accuse me of calling him a victim.

Apparently assumptions are suspect no matter which 'side' they seem to emanate from. My apologies.

You mean you didn't use the actual word, "victim"? Because the implication, the MEANING of what you wrote is that he is the victim of us unforgiving meanies.

Now go and call me "unsophisticated."

Happens quite often with we humans.

I'm quite sure you understand that tendency...
"I understand the anger directed towards him but one thing that really bothers me about this country is that we believe that EVERY CRIME is deserving of the death penalty (not literally but figuratively)"

. . .right?

:evilgrin:

What's the matter with Kansas?

Well said though, and I normally do not read Vick threads.

But not as a million-dollar-a-year (making a guess here) professional athlete.

There are plenty of more deserving younger college players who could use that money.

There's an unwritten rule that athletes can earn the big bucks as long as they keep their noses clean and don't bring shame to the organization.

He had his chance with the NFL. He should be grateful for that.

Shame on Philly.

he fucked up his chance, let him sell cars now.

. . .when you think of the stigma attached to him there are only a few job options for him.

all that is the result of his bad decisions. no sympathy.

I'm sure he wouldn't mind the work or be judged too much by his coworkers.

...thank you for saying something.

And to Mike Vick from Maggie:

A HUGE "FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE, SHIT STAIN, EVIL PIECE OF SHIT."

That is all.

. . .he will continue to pay the price everyday.

...like all through eternity as well.

:hi:

He has not yet offered a proper admission that he recognizes the horror of what he did. Not the "a mistake was made" nonadmission bullshit that passes for acknowledgement these days. He didn't torture those dogs by mistake. It wasn't an accident. It was a choice. A shitty choice of how to live his life -- entertaining himself by sadistically inflicting enormous suffering on dependent, helpless animals.

He did 18 lousy months in jail. Those dogs -- the ones that actually survived -- spent HOW MANY YEARS BEING TORTURED?

And what about the animals that didn't survive? Not just the fighting dogs, but the dogs they use to train them. Puppies, cats, sometimes stolen pets -- put into burlap bags and torn to pieces. What about those animals that he tortured and killed?

He has yet to express real sorrow of the misery he caused those poor dogs and their victims. True remorse over the suffering he caused to others. Recognition and acknowledgement of the fact that he tortured helpless dogs for entertainment, and had other animals tortured and killed to train the killers. Of the complete and total disgusting wrongness of what he chose to do.

And then he could contribute some portion of his likely oversized income to Best Friends and the other outfits that rehabilitated his victims. Tithe 10% or 20% of his income, for the rest of his life, to helping other dog victims. It's called atonement. He needs to seriously atone for what he did -- never mind the 18 months in jail that was forced on him --ATONEMENT is his only way to freedom from shame.

I used to have a good income in high tech. I didn't do *anything* wrong to anybody. I was outright robbed of my life savings -- including having my identity stolen by a former colleague. I now work myself to exhaustion making fucking sandwiches at Subway. But I still managed to care for 8 rescued animals -- including a horse that was being starved and 2 dogs that were pulled last minute from death row.

If I can care for those animals on my current 7 bucks/hour income, which I did nothing to deserve, then surely Vick can cough up some serious money to help dogs.

I'll believe he gets it when I see him breaking down and crying and begging for forgiveness....from the animals he tortured.

Sheesh...that is an error in a substraction problem. Torturing dogs is not exactly in the same league...to say the least.

I hope Vick rots in hell...and that is too good for him.

Edit for typo

:-)

why should he get to go right back to his high dollar career?

I say NFL as opposed to Philadelphia specifically, because it was the NFL who let him play, which I believe is the right decision.

no matter how much it may be.

:kick:

im fine with, he can earn a living doing any number of things other than playing football. the nfl is sending a bad message imo.

As far as society and the law is concerned...he's done his time and just like anyone else who has paid their debt to society, they get a second chance.

judging by the discussion here, personally i dont feel his debt has been paid and i certainly dont feel he should be back in the nfl. why should his "second chance" be in the nfl? because youre a fan?

He's well-suited to work in a slaughterhouse.

what he did was heinous. what i wonder is if he has expressed any remorse - not for getting caught but for the crimes he committed.

:kick:

...but there is NOTHING that evil, malicious piece of shit could or would do that would make me consider walking across the street and pissing on him even if he were on fire.

Fuck him...:grr:

. . .that is why I say he will continue to pay the price.

:eyes: He has his life back and a $1.6 million dollar w/options, NFL contract. I doubt he needs you to support him. I doubt he cares, actually. Now the dogs he TORTURED to DEATH, that was the ultimate price paid.

. . .you will see that I am not telling anyone to leave him alone. As a matter of fact I know that there are a ton you you hate him which is why I say he will continue to pay the price for his crime. Keep up your hate, call up your lynch mob. . .the fact that he did his time is not good enough for you and I accept that.

That is exactly what you are saying.

. . .where did I say to leave him alone? Saying he should be able to attempt to rebuild his career is not saying leave him alone.

Acknowledging that he is going to be dealing with the hatred of folks like you is not saying leave him alone, I point out your hatred because it shows his life will not be easy. He will most likely be harassed, he will most likely receive threats (YOU DO NOTICE THAT I AM NOT SAYING DON'T HARASS, DON'T THREATEN, I AM JUST STATING THE FACTS).

So yes I stand by calling you ignorant.

:eyes: I am so sad that his life won't be easy. :sarcasm:

I am not asking for pity for him, I am just defending the right of ex offenders to rebuild their lives after paying their debt to society.

:eyes:

. . .I am just saying he, as well as other ex-offenders who have paid their debt, should have the right to rebuild his career.

You feel sorry for the poor misunderstood POS, and you are calling anyone who doesn't share your sentiment names.

. . .I know my own feelings, but I also believe that when folks pay the price for their crime they should be allowed to rebuild their lives.

You, however, are worried about what people think of him?

I said this up thread. I'll say it again. People know what kind of person he is now. He gets to live with that. And I'm sure the average ex con (this is your big argument) would rather make the money he makes and have the job he has than have all that anonymity (you talk about) at $8.00/hr. Seriously.

Deal with it.

... got a slap on the wrist sentence, was released early, and walks into a contract where he will make more in one year than the majority of us will make in out lifetime.

The laws against animal cruelty haven't caught up to Vick's barbarism yet. He's the beneficiary of this injustice. Fuck him.

. . .he was charged with?

Also, I never said anything about weeping hearts I just said he deserves a chance to rebuild his career.

Vick was the beneficiary of this.

Vick took part in the drowning of dogs, the electrocution of dogs, bashing in the heads of dogs by swinging them by their legs until they were dead, the throwing of weaker smaller dogs into cages with pit-bulls to be torn apart for "training", forcing beaten and starved dogs to tear each other apart, etc. Does that sound like something you can reform yourself of in 23 months? Do these sound like the actions of someone that can actually be reformed? Or, does it sound like the actions of a sociopath?

People have been banned from sports for less.

. . .it must suck to be you.

. . .what I am doing however is defending his right, as well as the right of all folks who have served their time, to rebuild his career after he has repaid his debt to society.

You are free to run for office, become a prosecutor, become a judge and play a role in deciding what you think that debt might be for future felons.

Why does he deserve better than them? He has had ample and better opportunies handed to him (a goo college eduation at Virginia Tech) than the overwhelming majority of the other convicted felons in this country and he is getting yet more unbelieveable opportunities handed to him.

get treated "special" from age 12 or so (because you can throw a ball)
get bad behavior constantly "forgiven", because you can throw a ball
get bazillions of dollars & a cushy lifestyle becaus eyou can throw a ball


piss it all away because you cannot resist the temptation to torture & kill dogs

what goes around comes around

"piss it all away because you cannot resist the temptation to torture & kill dogs" - Whoopi says that's just the way it is deal with it

:wow:

'"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg.

"There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of our country."

Co-host Joy Behar seemed shocked at Goldberg's statements.

"How about dog torture and dog murdering," Behar asked.

"Unfortunately it's part of the thing," Goldberg replied.

"You're a dog lover. For a lot of people dogs are sport," she added.

Behar continued to shake her head in disgust.

Goldberg said it seemed to her that it took a while for Vick to realize that the charges against him were serious.

"It seemed like a light went off in his head when he realized that this was something the entire country really didn't appreciated, didn't like," Goldberg said, referring to Vick's guilty plea.

She said if the case had involved somebody from New York City her feelings would have been different.

Goldberg pointed out that Vick was raised in the South.

"This is part of his cultural upbringing," said Goldberg.'

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14040573/detail.html

but that does not make it "right" or "decent"..

Slavery was also a part of "culture"..too bad Whoopi was dead wrong on this one.. I still like her ..just think she's not thought this through

:(

Only making 1.6 million to throw a fucking ball.