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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:25 PM
Original message
Are the Democrats "gutless"?
The major criticism of the left against elected Democrats is that they fail to "defend their principles" and "always cave in". But can you blame them?

During the fight over the Clinton budget which increased taxes on the rich, its passage came to depend on one vote from a Pennsylvania congresswoman. She cast her "yea" vote while Republicans jeered "goodbye" to her. That Congresswoman did indeed lose her seat in the next election and was never heard of again. And I have to admit I don't even remember her name. But I am pretty sure most Democratic congressmen do.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, its the same generation that thinks inaction is the best solution against Fascism
That's how we got the Reagan revolution.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Perhaps the leaders are gutless because the party is gutless. n/t
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Well duh. Is a Japanese politician who commits sepaku gutless?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. it wasn't inaction, it was smoking weed, thinking listening to music others S-O-L-D, and screwing
was the solution.

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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. That's why I like punk rock
We get out there and kick ass, sometimes literaly.
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bermudat Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes.
The actions of the Democrats during the bush administration is the reason I changed

my party affiliation to 'Independent.'
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. thanks for the reminder
people talk a lot about "courage" but sometimes forget that courage usually requires you to pay a price and sometimes the price is that you disappear and so you don't get credit for your courage.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You are actually allowed to be punished for it. n/t
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Sure you do!!
You get to keep your Soul!!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes. But, they are well paid for their efforts to be so.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Dupe deleted
Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 01:54 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. Gutless is probably a good descriptive term
Calling Democrats spinelees is an insult to creatures without spines
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. They're not elected to be RE-elected.
They're elected to serve the country. If they can't do that, they have no business being in office.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. The problem is that they consider politics a career rather than a public service.
Get rid of the mindset that being a Senator or a Congressperson is a "job" rather than a temporary public service, like jury duty, and that fear no longer applies.

It's NOT a job any more than being on a jury is a job. It's certainly not a career. I used to think that term limits were a bad idea, that We The People should be able to choose who we want without constraints, but I no longer believe that. It has become clear to me that permitting politicians to make a career out of public service is a terrible idea, because they are only human, and their FIRST priority is going to be protecting their "career." They are supposed to vote for what's right and best for America, which isn't necessarily what the masses in their districts WANT, but most of them are too afraid to do it because they don't want to lose their jobs. So they pander to ignorant, uneducated idiots because their districts happen to have a LOT of them. Thus, the whole nation loses.

Term limits would also reduce the impact of corporations; they'd have to start all over again buying Congresspeople, and they couldn't trust in their Old Reliables to pull through anymore, because there wouldn't BE any Old Reliables. It would also cost lobbyists and corporations a FORTUNE to continue "investing" in politicians, because their investments would expire too quickly.

Term limits would increase the focus on, and perceived importance of, both civics education AND voting, because there would be more people serving overall--therefore, everyday people would be more likely to gain office themselves. More minorities would get the chance to have a voice in politics. And most importantly of all, it would REMOVE the false idea that being a Senator or a Congressman is a "career."

What worked before in this nation does not work anymore. Term limits--that is the 21st century solution to the problems of a 21st century America.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Well said!
.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Agree. n/t
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. There are many more complicit than gutless
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Gutless or Corporate Whores? I think they are whores
Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 02:03 PM by NightWatcher
and the whole dem v. repuke thing is a false paradigm trumped up to make us think that we have some power or control over some aspect of what happens to us. The same way that the rich propagated the white v. black and pro choice v. life memes to keep us divided and full of fauxrage. As long as we are fighting each other, we will never turn our attention on those who make billions regardless of who is in power or what else happens.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. There's nothing wrong with being a one-term member of Congress
If I were running I would not expect to last more than one term because I would be standing up against Corporate interests. But, since being a member of Congress was not meant to be a career, but a temporary means of representing those who elect you, what's wrong with that?

The fact that they want to make a career of this position makes them vulnerable to being bought and paid for.

When we get people who are there to do a job and who do their best while there, the current system of bought-and-paid-for, unethical morons will be over.

To answer your question, if they are more worried about re-election than doing what's right, they shouldn't be there. And who cares who remembers their names. If they can sleep at night knowing they did the right thing, that is worth more than all the Corporate bribe money greedy politicians can dream of.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. If the DEMs were to be GUTLESS...they would not be elected....The GOP is the GUTLESS PARTY
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. actually, I think the GOP
is the heartless party.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. GOOD ONE....:o) HEARTLESS AND MEAN TOO
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. For the most part, no.
They're just bought and paid for, and most of the time they do a pretty good job of defending their principles; to wit, protecting and preserving their own position, power, prestige and perks.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Gutless is the excuse. Corrupt is the reason. nt
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky is this person, and she's far from "disappeared"!
Here's a recent article about her and how she's comparing her situation to what Obama's dealing with with blue dogs today.

And though she's not in congress, she's anything but "never heard from again". She's founded "Women Campaign International' to help women enter politics, and teaches politics at the University of Pennsylvania.

From:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-03/freshman-terror/full

Blogs & Stories - Benjamin Sarlin
Freshman Terror

by Benjamin Sarlin




As Blue Dogs fret about health care, Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky can relate. The woman who cast the deciding vote on Clinton’s 1993 budget talks about holding all of Washington in your hands.

It has become clear that the fate of a health-care overhaul, the first major piece of legislation in the Obama administration, rests on the votes of a handful of nervous freshmen Democrats. And there’s perhaps no person in the world that understands their plight better than Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky, who achieved 15 seconds of fame in 1993 when she cast a brave vote for Bill Clinton’s first budget—and then watched her political career go up in flames.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, Margolies-Mezvinsky recalled the climactic showdown over Clinton’s budget, which raised taxes and drew the ire of the constituents in her Pennsylvania district. “When I went to town-hall meetings, I had to be escorted by the police,” she said. “There were kids holding signs saying 'LIAR.' ... I just painted a target on my chest.”

Like many of today’s Blue Dogs, Margolies-Mezvinsky was a freshman who had won a surprise victory in a conservative district during a strong Democratic year. But Clinton's budget put her party loyalty to the test.

As Margolies-Mezvinsky cast the decisive vote, a Republican legislator jumped up and down and chanted, “Goodbye, Marjorie!”

...
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Few actually have principles.... nt
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. I don't criticize the Dem party for failing to defend its principles. I have no clue what their
principles are. I don't mean that as a dig. I mean that sincerely. The only thing I can see that the Democratic party stands for is not being Republicans, for being "a little nicer" to the working class. That leaves them in a position of having no choice but to *react* to and feebly attempt to mitigate Republican violence. Walter Benjamin's analysis was that every instance of fascism can be indexed to a weak left. The Democratic party refuses the moniker "left" and refuses to embrace any principle that might be unpopular but correct in the long run.

Until the left in this country strengthens, with or without the Democratic party, there will be no peace.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. I think the grassroots have principals. I think those in Congress have only self interest
There are, of course, exceptions to both statements.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Yes, many are (nt)
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. They know they will just get blasted through the MSM
The cable "news" channels control the agenda and shape public opinion. Just look at what happened to Obama's health reform poll numbers after the Town Hall meetings started. 72 approval to 47 percent approval.
People didn't just suddenly decide they don't want reform. Watching televised, disruptive meetings over and over again gave them the impression that they were on the wrong side of the fence, which is exactly what the operatives knew would happen if their buddies in the media went along.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. Yes. No senate leadership at all. No house leadership at all. No other comments.
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