Every Dem's place is with Obama

This is not the time for division. We have a leader. Let him do his job. I don't care what anyone has to say to the contrary. I think President Obama will do the right thing. Any Dem that doesn't back Obama is to blame if the country ends up with less health care than a fully supported Obama could have gotten. Screaming for more and disempowering the President is the one sure way to get less.

Obama speaks for me.

How very progressive. Not.

Sorry, we're not Republicans. We don't march in lockstep with any politician, esp. when he's screwing up.

and elect someone to implement single payer if it's so damn popular. And cut the military by 2/3, end NAFTA and the WTO, close all land to mining and logging, turn all schools over to the public, and make everybody stop eating meat while they're at it.

That's why we voted these people into office.

You elect a leader. Then you do what the leader says. The election picks the leader. The leader leads.

Obviously he tries to do what he is elected to do. Obviously he does his level best to give the country what it needs. But bottom line, the most powerful advocate for all that Dems hold true is Obama, not the electorate itself. Dems who don't support Obama tie his hands and disable him. That is GOP goal number 1.

Sorry, I love individualism. But you don't fight for it by being disloyal to the team. Major irony at work here. Sad to see it. Loyalty to Obama by itself, regardless of reason would show character. But logic also dictates loyalty.

This isn't 1930's Italy for God's sake.

It's not practically any silly thing that can be named. It's what it is. Because some people showed loyalty to fascists is loyalty itself therefore wrong? Are you saying loyalty to Obama is equivalent to loyalty to Italian fascism?

There's a North Korea up there in the posts somewhere too.

I'm not asking y'all to stop, though.

n/t

I go for funny when I'm kidding.

Not that I achieve it.

We allow them to be our leaders. When they fail to accomplish what we want, we either remind them who they work for, or we replace them.


Sorry, what you are referring to is a dictatorship.


The electorate is many times more powerful than Obama will ever be. He is just a man. We are the movement. The problem is that we must all join together and demonstrate our power in numbers.

You clearly don't have the ability to function without being told what to do.

Your congress and senate and the republiCON: Harry Reid.

Obama hasn't done the "you're with us or against us" shtick, which in turn only turns people off.

"Obama is our leader. We should support our leader, because he is the leader."

Meh.

The fact that the loyalty and stick-with-the-team argument always falls flat with the same people is unimpressive. They're wrong every time it falls flat. Repeated errors of perception tend to snowball just like big lies, IMO. The more one blithely dismisses a fact, the more dismissive one becomes...all based on what, taste? I don't like it to be this way, so it's not?

I freely admit not being loyal to a person - particularly a politician of any stripe. I am very, mad-dog loyal to IDEAS. Ideas proposed by politicians are what get my attention, not the cut of their suit or the clip of their cadence. When they stray from the original ideas that caused me to take notice, I cannot support them any longer.

Where would we be if we followed your "personal loyalty" argument during the first Constitutional Convention when Hamilton proposed an American Monarchy? Would you have remained loyal to him - or to the idea of a free Republic?

I weep for this generation.

...is a bad idea generally. The problem is that ideas can live outside reality, while health care is necessarily in reality. So we get into questions of how to tell good ideas from bad and so forth...the time it takes to tell...what evidence we accept, etc. But the main reason to be leary of being loyal to ideas is because it borders way way too close to being loyal to one's own opinions in most people.

Let me be clear. I am loyal to Obama because I am loyal to ideas and because being loyal to a good person is a good in itself. It is the stronger position and the better one.

So you are saying we cannot trust in our loyalty to ideas, because it's hard to tell good ideas from bad. But, you believe it's better to be loyal to Obama because he's a "good person."

Wow. With that, I'll sign off. You're too far gone to even comprehend anymore.

But they are nothing.

I am a one issue voter, and my issue is healthcare. Other things are important to me too - but healthcare is my paramount concern.

Gotta love those teabaggers. :rofl:

is exactly what the Republicans are banking on here people - and you know it! They know that their party is crumbling, and is held in very poor esteem by most of America. However, they are counting on the Dems to do what they always do when they get into power - divide and crumble. We all have differing views on the best healthcare solution at this point - but remember this, would you rather have Palin/Romney/Jindal in 2012???

And second, this has nothing to do with whether we would have rather had two idiots in office. We elected people based on what they said they would do. Now it's our job to make sure they do it. It's simple, really: THEY work for US.

That is likely always to be the Democrat.

Support means calling and writing to my representatives, writing LTE's, etc. If Obama goes back on the public option he will in all likely retain my vote, but my support may be another matter.

I think of it as DIY insurance via government. If the professionals can provide a value proposition that's fine. But I'm more than sick of the insurance industry. High-handed, mis-focused, inept. It needs competition.

This President is shaping to be all persona and no policy... just because he has a warm fuzzy Hallmark Card personality does NOT mean that he isn't squandering the political capital that Progressives SHOULD have in this political climate.

Any progressive detractors simply weaken themselves, IMO. This is (or should be) self-evident. Anyone out there doing a better job getting progressives what they want?

I think the farmer killed the goose who laid the golden eggs not because the eggs weren't golden enough but because they weren't coming fast enough. I trust Obama to set the rate implicitly. He's brilliant and good hearted. His detractors are the latter at best.

progressives under the bus? I do.

Generally speaking people who do this kind of thing aren't actually very sure of their positions so they just reiterate their assertion over and over again in the face of any kind of criticism to see if they can do so without feeling stupid.

I'll have to trust in the intelligence of the readers to judge it on its merits. To me it seems like a kind of rhetorical prion. Sort of an ad hominem thingy. Your real rhetorical assumption is that my position is indefensible and you invite others to join you in that assumption...the further assumption being that you, yourself believe the assumption you are making. Then there is some kind of generalization about people who repeat themselves or something for people to nod at...basically run-of-the-mill dummy bait.

The position you propose in the OP is wrong. That's it.

It's OK if you want to say something like "It's just obvious, that's why."

/nt

But will anyone recognize it?

;)

As long as they being smart about whether their actions are serving their conscience or its opposition.

:wtf:

You make no sense.

...but make absolutely sure that your actions are truly in accord with it. Undermining Obama is going against conscience and our own best interests ultimately if he falls and takes all of health care with him. Such a loss would be on the consciences of those who could not keep faith when it was time to do that.

So far, the polls show the Dems basically sticking with Obama. IMO, we need to keep it that way.

Me thinks you need to go nighty-night.

People need to stand up and demand from their leaders whatever it is that they want. Not just Obama and not even most importantly Obama, but rather the Congress, who, in my opinion, have been acting like spineless amoebas for many years. Obama doesn't speak for me. Obama is someone whom I agree with often but not always. No one should speak for you, but you.

I'm less inclined to let people speak for me than most...much less inclined. I only do it when it is the right thing to do...when there is a voice that I don't want drowned out. I'm not being blindly loyal to Obama as much as I am being starkly in disagreement with the self-defeating foolishness of those who are so quick to turn on their own side.

Stand united sometimes or be divided and conquered. That's a fact. Ideas that don't take it into account are wrong, regardless of how good they seem.

and we need him.

I am saddened by the rancor on this board and others of people trying to tear down our President.

This man has done more, and sacrificed more for us than in his short time in office, than most Presidents in 2 full terms.

Its during the tough times that we all owe him our undivided support.

Its the least we can do for him.

that was a different administration.

I think the President wants to do the right thing but I don't know if he has the will. We need to hold his feet to the fire. He asked us to, remember?
Blind following is folly.
You might not get burned right away, but you will get burned.

It's sick!

Watch out, the Haters will accuse you of trying to turn DU into "Obama Teen-Beat"! :popcorn:

If I had wanted a president who based his health plan on what he thought the insurance companies and Big Pharma would like, I'd have voted for McCain.

I never asked for health INSURANCE reform, I want health CARE reform -- the kind of reform that makes the recent charity health care traveling medicine tents in Los Angeles and West Virginia unnecessary. Protecting the profits of the insurance industry is NOT in my interest, yet that appears to be the bottom line for the "reform" that's being proposed.

And that, on top of protecting the profits of Wall Street and the banksters, pretty much leaves MY interests out of the equation. Therefore, I see no obligation on my end to offer support.

sw

Obama's place is with those of us who put him into office. Personally I don't have insurance, can't get insurance and I'M SICK OF BEING SICK!! He promised to see to it that I can get coverage. Now he needs to keep his freaking promise.

Obama hasn't done SHIT for me or my people and he will continue to GET shit from me until he does. That's how leaders are treated in a democracy.

Find yourself a nice dictatorship somewhere if you want to practice blind hero-worship.

nt