Oh, for f***'s sake...

When Max Baucus came out right away and refused Single Payer a "seat at the table," he made it clear the fix was already in. The fat, bloated parasite that's the health insurance industry was going to be protected no matter what the cost. Then, when he said that was a "mistake" and yet still didn't allow it to enter the debate, that was like adding insult to injury. When Obama talks about "a uniquely American approach" he's also talking about protecting that putrid leech at our expense. How is that acceptable to anyone?

Nearly everything that's wrong with our health care system can be laid at that bloodsucking parasite's bulbous belly. And, what's more, those fuckers on the Hill know it. They've allowed the Right to pretend that skyrocketing health care costs are because of malpractice insurance and all that was needed was "tort reform." They've played church-mouse while the parasite grew fatter and fatter on OUR suffering, and now wonder why we're pissed at them? White House spokespeople are telling progressive groups to sit down and shut up while right wing loonies come to protests wearing firearms and carrying signs threatening physical violence?

Seriously? :wtf:

The fact is that the health insurance industry brings nothing to the process that can't be attained a lot cheaper by bypassing it entirely. Pretending otherwise is simply perpetuating a lie. This isn't cynicism, this is a basic truth. We, as a society, pay millions (if not billions) of dollars a year to the insurance industry in the hopes that we'll never have to actually ask for any of it back. And, if we are forced to file a claim, whether or not we actually get what we need is entirely up to them--no matter how much money we've paid into it. The whole purpose of an insurance company is to gather money and pay as little back out as possible. By whatever means it can manage. And all we can do at this point is take it.

From the very beginning of this fight it didn't look good. Our legislators came out on their knees, asking the minority party meekly for something that might, in time, compete with the insurance companies. And in response the right wing freaked the fuck out, the insurance companies hired and fielded an army of agents to disrupt the debate, Republican legislators refused to even discuss it, and the professional pundits started calling it "socialism." When, in the end, the best thing it's likely to gain us is the elimination of "pre-existing conditions?" When it's beginning to look like it might turn into a mandate for every American (rich, poor, and fucking on-the-street homeless) to offer their arm, leg, or throat to the parasite to suckle on? Yeah, that's really fucking progressive. Feed the leech. Or else.

Cynicism? Are you fucking kidding me? Why should any of us be cynical, considering that this is perhaps the most half-assed attempt at reform we've ever seen (not including anything related to campaign finance reform, which is an issue in and of itself where BOTH sides will happily fuck the rest of us while giggling all the way to the bank)?

And considering we keep hearing mutters from the Hill from this Senator or that Senator that they might, maybe, if necessary, be willing to "kill" the Public Option entirely. At the request of the bloated leech at the table, of course. At which point we can only hope Obama's willing to veto the very legislation on which he's staked his whole Presidency.

Yeah, maybe there ARE progressive legislators still fighting for that much, at least. Kudos to them. But at this point it's hard to look at them any differently than we might look at cops who DON'T taser little old men, soccer moms, and epileptic children. We know they're out there, but they sure ain't drawing attention to themselves.

Are we suggesting that some of our congress-critters are corrupt? Well, in the words of Mark Twain--"there is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress." It seems that the notion isn't a recent development. When those with the most influence over the process, specifically those who have seemingly bent over backwards to protect the leech, have been paid tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions by said parasite, one has to wonder if there might be a conflict of interest somewhere. I mean, what are the chances?

And as far as offering alternatives and ways to fight back, one can only shake one's head and wonder. What can we, as citizens, do that we're not already doing? We write and call our Senators. We write LTTEs. We participate in town meetings, join protest marches, talk to like-minded people and try to get them to do the same. Basically, we can make pains in the ass of ourselves and get told by the likes of Rahm Emmanuel to knock it the fuck off.

Woo hoo. Great fun will be had by all.

If we actively discuss promoting primary challengers to some of these so-called "blue dogs," we're quickly reminded that the Party apparatus controls the process and that unseating an incumbent is next to impossible. That trying to seat an actual progressive in their place is an act of nearly obscene futility.

What's more, it's suggested that maybe we're right wingers in disguise because we have the temerity to question or criticize people who would protect a bloated, overfed leech over sick and injured constituents, and apparently do so without a trace of shame. What's more, we're accused of actively trying to demoralize folks.

Demoralize my ass. We're trying to inflame people, to get them to stand up and be counted. We want them at LEAST as pissed off as those ignorant "death panel" protesters at the Town Meetings. We don't want people to give up, we want them to fight back. We want them to scream their outrage from the rooftops.

We don't want people to assume that our legislators are doing everything they can do, we want them to realize they're doing the LEAST they can do, and acting like even that's expecting too much.

For the last several months I've been trying to tell people how to get the ball rolling on campaign finance reform, offering a specific, viable tactic to change the playing field. And for the past several months I've gotten no traction whatsoever. The fact is, it all starts there. Campaign finance reform is the foundation for every other change we'd like to see pass. It's the cornerstone of real progressive change in our government. But it won't happen unless WE make it happen.

I think what amuses me the most is that I've been called "selfish" for being such a rabid advocate for single payer. When I sit here night after night and read that this person's not able to get the medicine s/he needs, or that person is fighting with the insurance companies about an important procedure, or yet another person has been driven to the point of bankruptcy by medical bills. I've been a proponent of Single Payer since before I knew what to call it, since I was a callow youth who thought himself invulnerable. And even now, when I'm fortunate enough to have very good insurance through my wife's employer, I spend all this energy promoting something that I myself don't need for the sake of all the people who have no insurance, or might as well have no insurance for all the good it's doing them.

I'm glad people are keeping the faith. But don't take it for granted. Don't assume that they're looking out for us. A lot of them aren't. A lot of them are cuddling up to that bloated leech, hoping that IT will help them get re-elected next time around. And it had better, given that if they vote the way they're leaning, they're not going to be getting any help from US.

The last thing we need to be right now is complacent. Don't let the idiots drown out your voice. Not for a second. If they shout, shout louder. This could be the battle of our lives. This could be the battle FOR our lives.

In this fight, the only thing the meek will inherit is a bill for leech food.

updated to fix the :wtf: ;)

oops - guess I was 4th - went from 0 to 3 as I was reading

i will personally work to see that Baucus is unseated and that killing health care reform and universal coverage is his legacy. i'm watching which other blue dogs are going to try to kill this thing or mess it up so badly it either doesn't work or won't pass.

i have defended them at every turn because they needed cover to stay in office.

but for what? the point was to have them in office so something like health care could pass --and now they are going to screw it up?

then what is the advantage to keeping them there?

i volunteer and i've donated. if blue dogs screw up health care, they will find out.

:rant:

not simply a larger, government sponsored customer base for insurance companies!

It's the same model used by Automobile Insurance, mandated by the states that require proof of insurance before you can register your vehicle, or operate it on a highway.

The New Yorker had a great article several years ago that described the difference between the Auto Insurance model, and Social Insurance model. In the Auto insurance model, the drivers with the highest risk, Teenagers, pay a heck of a lot more for insurance, because they are proven to be reckless at times. Not all of them, but a good percentage, so the Bean Counters raise the rates. Well, this is analagous to people with a pre-existing condition, smoking habits (reckless), drinkers (known toxin), type of employment, etc. They are soon to be able to use Genetics as a reason to charge more for what they consider "High Risk", because Eugenics and all the bullshit that accompanies it still lives, only now it's called DNA and Genetic Code. This basically describes what we see in American Healthcare today.

Social Insurance is where everyone pays the same. It protects the society as a whole and makes no assertion that people are higher risk than others. This is what drives the public healthcare in all the other more enlighted countries. Their people are taken care of more equitably, and in general society benefits as a whole.

As far as mandated enrollment to a Government Public Insurance, there is no way in hell that I would go along with that, simply because of the fact that we already pay out huge sums of money that is basically sucked into the Black Hole, without any accountability whatsoever. This Black Hole is called the Military, and even though I am a veteran, I find the mission of the Us Military complex dubious at best. I can identify at least 4 multi-billion dollar Military bases that are growing weeds and rotting in the elements within 100 miles of San Francisco, and nobody seems to care.

Take Alameda Naval Air Station, situated on 1600 acres of prime real estate, or so one would think, until you find out it is an EPA Superfund Site, loaded with PCB's, TCE, and God knows what else is lurking a couple of feet under the hundreds of acres of Concrete Runways, or the massive aircraft hangars that are used to store personell records stacked to the ceiling. Or the Base housing, that has been "Rendered Uninhabitable" by cutting large holes in the roofs to prevent poor people for taking up residence in the PCB laced building.

If you don't believe me, just take a look at Google Maps and zooom in for a peek. Just take a look at Norfolk and W. Tower Rd. You'll cry.

No, we have plenty of money, the only problem is that it is being destroyed by systems like the Military that operate without any accountability. They cost us so much in lost Opportunitty costs, that most people don't have a clue what the real price is to our society.

Well, I don't want any part of the Military as it exists today. We have so much hardware stashed all of the world, that we have idiot in the Air Force that mistakenly load armed Advanced Nuclear Tipped cruise missiles on B-52's and fly them unwittingly cross country, and then leave them hanging on the plane for several hours until the mistake was discovered. WTF?

We have Aircraft Carrier groups that are unable to detect Chineses subs surfacing with striking distance of the Carrier.. WTF?

We have evidence that the High Energy Sonar used by the Navy can damage the Marine Ecosystem, but it is protected out of supposedly National Security.

The Military owns and controls by lethal force the Complete Island of San Clemente, just a few miles eaouthest of Santa Catalina Island. I flew over it late one night on a trans pacific airline flight and was amazed to see lights similar to a Small L.A. Suburb. I remembered how developed and illimunated it was, so I took a look at Google Maps.. The amount of development is shocking. In the past, you could see the 2 miles long airfield and supporting base, but it has since been obfuscated with clouds. However, they don't consider the munitions bunkers on the southern half od the island to be "Sensitive" enough to black out. They have acres of Solar panels, Wind Generators, all the state of the art stuff that we can't afford.

My point is that we cannot win the battle for Universal Health Care when the Government is so heavily invested in death and destruction. We cannot control the Congress Critters through Campaign Financing Reform, when entities like the Military are able to lose track of 2 trillion dollars, without any repercussion. The commoditization of the Military to private contractor is Compromising the reason for the Military to exist.

Yet, we have a system that demands a tax on our labor, yet the Government is unable to present any law that states that sn indirect tax in exchange for an individuals labor is required. They can show ample evidence for indirect taxes on Profit, Gain, Corporation Taxes, Gambling winnings, etc, but they cannot and will not identify exactly where in the tax code that the Government may tax money earned by and arm length negotiation for income derived from that individuals labor. I've searched for it, and so have hundreds of other tenacious, what to see it with my own eyes type of people to no avail.

So, why is it that everyone is so conditioned that income taxes and the filing of a 1040 are mandatory actions? Well, as far as I can tell, it just turns out to be a matter of financial necessity.

The system is rigged so that your income is taxed on Gross Income. The company you work for, is obligated to pay taxes on profits and gains, thats a given. However, using the scheme of Federal Income Tax witholding, they remove a percentage right off the top using some formulas pulled out of some IRS beancounters ass, and then pay you the Net income. So, you have essentially just had a reduction in pay. Now I don't believe anyone actually knows what happens to this cut off the top. Did it ever really exist? Did it go to the Government, I don't really know. The only thing I do know is that it is money that I earned, but am not allowed to use.

OK, so I play the game, and this witholding accrues. At the end of the years, it can add up to many thousands of dollars, all sitting in this virtual pile of money somewhere in the depths of the Government, whether it really exists or not is anyones guess. So, I get my 1099 or whatever year end statemen and see how much they took out. I see $$$ that I earned, beckoning me to retrieve it the only way I can, and thats by filing a 1040. Thats the hook. I don't have to file a 1040 if I don't want to, but if I do that, I lose thousands of dollars in wages for my real labor. It would not bother the IRS, but I would have to be nuts to be nuts to do that right? So you file a 1040, filling in all the little details about your personal life, disctating in minute detail exactly how your money worked for you during the past year. You sign this document under penalty of law too, so you better get it right, or else the IRS may come knocking on your door with a big stick.

So, now that you have sent in a 1040, in many states, you are now required to file a State Income Tax Return as well, so now you have the State Givernment playing the game. Note that this requirement only is triggered when you "Have" to file a Federal return.

Looking at it from this perspective, that being that their is no law that Income Tax on an Individuals wages in exchange for labor is on the books, the scheme above looks like a pretty good Fraud. While it may make good economic sense to retrieve the money witheld, it is not a requirement. It is only required for legally defined profits, windfalls, rents, etc.. However, they lump your wages in their hoping that you won't notice that it really should be excluded income. I welcome others to review U.S. Code Title 26. The more the merrier, because it is written in a fashion that would make Bernie Madoff proud.

So, in my opinion, they have created a self reinforcing belief in the poeple that the Income Tax is normal and required, but it really isn't. People are only caught by the system when they fail to file for profits, windfalls, and all the rest.

But, the system of witholding is so pervasive, that many people have no choice but to file a 1040 and state returns to get their money back.

It is clear that we have lost control of the economic system as it applies to the common man, and the Corporation own and control the Government, no matter what party is current flavor of the month. Until people demand a review of the overly complicated systems that have been put into place over the last 50 years, we won't have a chance.

We must have Universal Healthcare. Take nothing else, and if they succeed in quashing it, then we must drop out of the system and stop feeding this fraud by refusing to participate in it.

Would you rather your Taxes go to creating Bioelectric Weaponry, Depleted Uranium shells, 3 billion dollars Submarines, or spend half that on Universal healthcare?

The answer is pretty clear, as long as your not fully invested in the War machine.

I am in favor of universal health care with a strong public option. Heck if it were up to me, we'd have single payer. :hi:

Hope you got health insurance because I'm thinking your gonna have a stroke.

Being out of debt, aware of the fraud, and having taken precautions after losing everything due to the Enron and DotCon bubbles, and being able to recover to a more secure state in spite of all that, enables me to see things a bit more clearly now.

The system is so convoluted, so complex, that it takes the equivalent of a full time job to do the research, review historical, and re-evaluate the experiences that I lived through, but at a time when I was unconscious and unable to see the fraud for what it was. Heck, I was fully invested in the Fraud. I believed it. It made me 6 figures. It didn't change the fact that it was a Fraud.

It's kind of like perceiving how a plant grows. Tomato's appear one day. Then, after reviewing it closer, we see that they flower, and then taken a step further, we see that certain pollinators are involved, and they have lives and stories independant of the Tomato. These are the connections that we learn to see only if you have an interest, and people do not like to, or seem unable to make connections these days.

Furthermore, many people do not have memories anymore. I would say only 10% if that of the users of this blog ultilize their god given gift of memory, and this is very disturbing. Most of them will happily regurgitate what they've heard through third party "Authorities", simply because they have been told that they are not qualifed to be their own authority.

I think the best thing for a person's memory is to actually devour everything of interest, and learn to discern fact from propaganda. I have had a very full life in terms of being in many different places, organizations and responsibilities, so I tend to trust my intuition regarding things. Sometimes you can't quite pin down why something sounds fishy, but we do have an innate ability to identify truth or fiction, most likely due to genetic memory from past events. It may not be present in the Conscious realm, but it makes itself known subtley in the Subconscious, and it's up to us to be able to recognize it.

Sounds metaphysical right? I suppose one could label it that if they want to, but science uses the term meta-physical to distance itself from the hard questions regarding life.

As far as the Social Structure imposing upon us certain roles, morals and laws, we really have no other choice, and that is what I was trying to get at above. The only way I have found to protest the obscene spending on Military death machinery is to just refuse to work in a system that extracts taxes from me for undisclosed, indirect purpose, especially when they refuse to be accountable for it. I work for myself, yet I still pay taxes of Duel, Real Property, Sale Taxes Communcations surcharges, energy taxes. It adds up when you tally it.

I'm just relating the facts, and if it sounds to far out for you to deal with, then don't. But if I did strike home, and get you to actually try and look at U.S. Code Title 26, and see for yourself that is nothing more than a fraud, then I have maybe been able to clear a small portion of the window so you can see outside of the dark room they keep us in.

I'll even make it easy for you with a link http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000501----000-.html

Thats just for 501c organizations.. You know, Not for Profit Corporations like FreedomWorks that Dick's Armey runs? Have fun becoming enraged, but don't have a Stroke! I hear they are bad for your health.

Outstanding!

But i did try to elaborate my point of view of why we must have Universal Healthcare. If that does not pass, than we as a Society must strike them where it hurts, and that is in the the refusal to go along with the fraud anymore.

I have my doubts that we will see Universal Healthcare, considering how cowardly and stupidly the people at the economic helm are behaving, in addition to the ongoing ludicrous amounts being spend on the Military and Corporate handouts.

The last sentence is a little confusing, even when I read it. Sorry

I loved her comment that there were 3 Repub's and 3 Dem's on Baucus's panel and how that was going to tip the final bill in the favor of the Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma more then it should with the majority of votes going to the Dem's in 2008!

Here is a good article on that:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/15/742452/-Senator-Baucus,-Are-you-Actually-Listening-to-Chuck-Grassley

Senator Baucus, Are you Actually Listening to Chuck Grassley?
by mcjoan

Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 08:08:03 AM PDT

The Baucus/Grassley road show on health care reform continued unabated through last week, and Baucus continues to defer to him, despite the obvious fact that Grassley is undercutting just about everything Baucus proclaims to intend to do with a reform package.................

Can Grassley put it any more baldly than this, caught by John Amato?

Sen. Grassley, the Mad Twitterer, was on with Andrea Mitchell and she asked him about the public option. She didn't bring up his tweets,unfortunately. He said that he was against the public option because a think tank study told him around a hundred and nineteen million people would opt out of private health insurance and join it.

That's a Republican saying competition is bad, who is against the consumer's right to choose where and how they spend their money. That's a Republican Senator who doesn't give a good goddamned about what the American people might want.

We can only hope! I believe Gov. Dean before I would anyone.

I am furious.

They are telling me and millions of other liberals to do the same thing. Well, it ain't gonna happen. I've been a nurse for 20 years. There is no health care system. We are trying to save peoples lives with spit and baling wire and the insurance companies are nothing but complete leeches. You know it. I know it and so many others know it and we need to scream it from the rooftops and scream it in Rahm's face and his brother's face and we just need to keep yelling. Those who feel the need to tell us to shut up can just keep saying it. We aren't going to listen to you because you are wrong.

Will we get the reform we need? Probably not. Will we get the reform we deserve? Well, now, that can be answered in so many ways, can't it?

I have insurance through my hospital. It pays less than it used to and the costs are higher and there is huge bureaucracy between me and my doctor. If we get a public option, I will move unless I can't take my child and my husband with me. If not, I guess I'm stuck with this crap. But I'm not just fighting for me, for my son or any of my family. I'm fighting for my patients and for you and I'm even fighting for the people who keep telling me to shut up and sit down.

Seriously. The subject just got changed, probably on purpose, which gives us the chance to yell louder than the opposition. They have nothing to yell about. Their entire reason for fighting just got taken away. Now it's our turn to actually engage in this debate.

Dems have just been sitting back, watching the other side emotionally and passionately protest. We've had nothing to protest about, you can't protest from a dominant position. Now we are the underdogs again, which I think is no mistake.

Time to fight for it.

I voted for Obama because there was really no other choice and I hoped his compassion was genuine. I still believe it is but it angers me that he allows these insurance parasites to even sit at the table, while not allowing proponents of a single-payer system to be heard. (I could have puked watching Baucus sitting behind him at the Montana town hall meeting.) He is intelligent enough to know that they are the problem. Meanwhile, people are dying. My only hope now is that Obama realizes that if this fails a good portion of his supporter base will fall away into renewed apathy and a chance for a second term will diminish; perhaps even giving rise to a new third party. In the long run that will most likely be the case as the GOP has become the party of neo-confederates, corporate bloodsuckers, and the religiously insane. It seems the Democratic Party has become the reasonable party right of center, which leaves a vacuum to the left. All we can do now is keep up the pressure and hope for the best. The Russians have a saying: hope is the last thing to die. Right now, that's all I have.

:thumbsup:

Biden is a worry -- he was encouraging the Israelis recently re bombing of Iran!!!!

He's always been on the weird side --

After Sarah Palin tore him a new one, he was never able to recover.

Sure, he made a few good speeches, and he looks the part of a nice father figure, but underneath it all, he is the Hollywood American Sterotype made popular by Steven Spielberg in the 70's and 80's, and that steroeotype of what I call "Brain Dead Dad". Out of touch, clumsy, unskilled, distracted, unable to communicate, etc, etc.

It's kind of amazing that this stereotype of the typical American weak, stupid father is so prevalent. I used to think it was just Spielberg, but it is used just about everywhere as the predominant meme.

No, Biden is a snake, just like the Clintons and the rest of the DLC Corporate stooges.

stay in touch . . .

We need a lot of help here -- !!!

:evilgrin:

...someone of Kucinich's calibre.

And I'm hoping to see a big backlash against Obama and the insurance-owned Congress people.

While I do have faith in Obama's commitment to doing the right thing for regular people, I absolutely agree with your comment, "We don't want people to assume that our legislators are doing everything they can do, we want them to realize they're doing the LEAST they can do, and acting like even that's expecting too much."

Warning: Big Digression Here. Please bear with me:
Once, when I was a kid, I got a flash for some reason, that the big "scary thing" facing us one day would be corporations. I was too young to really word it, but it was an inchoate awareness that I still remember. No idea how I knew that big corporations sucked at such a young age, but.... guess I've always been anti-authoritarian and anti-hypocrisy.

It was, however, the bullshit of tee-vee that started me off, starting with Mickey Mouse.

"What!?", I used to say to myself. "They tell us something really neat and cool about nature or animals, but when that's done, they hurry it away and turn up the volume for this stupid-ass, 'Remember kids!! M-I-C. K-E-Y....' crap??????? As if THAT were important??????????" For some reason, that just utterly disgusted me.

thank you; we return now to the topic at hand

Email or call, people. Try to do something, anything. If it's hard to do anything bc it seems like there's too much, then do just ONE thing. And pat yourself sincerely for doing it. Speaking as one who knows what that feels like.

About the lack of traction you got on campaign finance reform -- maybe that's only bc of the urgency of the basic survival needs at stake right now? Just thinking out loud.

sorry I didn't watch the news after hearing that in the commercial lead into the News..I had a houseful of people who changed the channel..

Did we think that just because we won an election that we were somehow in control?
We are gong to have to face some simple facts that we don't want to face...and that is that our government is not run buy and for us at all.
And no matter who is president or wether we dump Obama for Kucinich or someone else it will never change that fact.
If we want to change that then we must have election reform that takes the money out of politics, because it is that money that runs our government and it for that money that government works.

The first step in change is identifying the problem, and until we can do that objectively we will be punked over and over again.

but if someone not doing their part I will do everything in my power to get their sorry ass out of office.

Seriously. If you are healthy and can get a way for a time without healthcare, opt out and pay the minimum effing fine. If enough people do this, then the message will hit them where they effing live...in their wallets.

I've been without health insurance most of my adult life.

When I *did* have it, I got seriously ill and the effing HMO left me to die. I wasted no precious time or effort fighting them. I saved my own life out of pocket. And refused to buy COBRA or pay anything but the minimum permitted by my employer for the cheapest "death plan" they offered. x(

The money I saved was enough, within a few short years, to pay for anything but the most horrible of illnesses or injuries, which would have bankrupted me regardless.

The money I saved has enabled me to ride out 7 years of the * depression in some comfort (although now I'm starting to go under and can't be patient for Obama's economic "recovery" to reach that "lagging indicator" named employment.)

I just realized how much money I would have in my own unofficial "health savings account" if I had set aside all the money I've paid in premiums since moving to Minneapolis. It's enough to make a person weep.

My out-of-pocket costs would bankrupt me anyway.

yesterday after reading the blatant statement from Grassley proving that they all they want is money and that they will not vote for any bill, no matter how good it is, if it doesn't benefit the profit margins of the healthcare industry.

I think just the threat of a significant number of people dropping their insurance should there not be a bill that covers everyone, especially if it looks like we mean it, would be enought to get their attention.

It's disgustingly all about money unfortunately and taking away what they care most about is the only weapon we have.

It has to start costing THEM before they even pay attention to us.

I don't know how such a thing could be organized, but that little blog, 'colorforchange' managed to get 20 advertisers to drop Glenn Beck, so it's not impossible.

That tells you that the problem isn't the Republicans, it is the Democrats - straight up.

dare I say that I am skeptical about even "fighting back" will be make much difference. Yes, my cynicism is rearing it's UGLY head again!!!

Believe me, I WISH it wasn't so!!! I THOUGHT it was going to be much more different than what my "eyes & ears" are actually being subjected to.

We also have to get the corporate-DLC out of the White House . . .!!!!

And the Wall Streeters . . . !!!!

Where are the unions and the women's groups to help us -- to call us all out

to demonstrate for single payer??????? MEDICARE FOR ALL ......???????????

let's get on with the business of living. Health care is a right. I'm so angry now I can hardly see straight.

by corporatism -- and if they get their way now, we will have no chance of defeating

them down the line . . . and down the line they are definitely headed to overturning

SS and Medicare -- WE KNOW THAT!!

So . . . let's defeat them "here so we don't have to defeat them there" . . . !!!

:)

MEDICARE FOR ALL --

????????????????????

Where are the unions demonstrating for single payer which would help all labor
and small businesses???

Where are the women's groups calling out women and Democrats on this issue vital
to families, especially those with children?

Where's Obama calling out Democrats to demonstrate --

EVIDENTLY, ONLY THE GOP CAN CALL OUT THEIR THUGS . . . ?????????????????????

We need strong, peaceful response to those thugs . . .!!!!

he would be going to every major city and using his rhetoric to stir up the hope. Where does he go though?

He needs to go on the road now.

To all of those with health insurance that think you're covered:
You only think you have insurance.

If you should have a major medical event happen to you or a family member such as has happened in my family, you will find out how little coverage you really have.

My spouse had such a medical event several years ago. We HAD insurance with a major company. The insurance companies don't pay 80% of the actual bill. They pay based on "customery" rates from an actuary chart composed by a company owend by one of the big insurance companies. Then they deny certain tests after they were already approved. Pay only a portion of others.

By the time they got finished, we owed over $68,000 AND WE HAD INSURANCE.

Then my company moved out of the country in search of cheaper labor. I became self-employed. Now we cannot get insurance for my spouse because of what is now a pre-existing condition.

WE NEED REAL REFORM, NOT INSURANCE COMPANY DICTATED POLICY CHANGES TO MAKE THEM RICHER.

When my son became ill in 1991, I had both Blue Cross HMO and Catastrophic Insurance. I still had to sell my home to continue medical care and prescriptions that they would routinely deny for as long as they could legally. I spent over ten years fighting them. Because my son's illness was very rare and very expensive they were constantly "reviewing" his case. I believe his disabilities are partially due to the interruption of medical care at a critical stage of his illness during those "reviews".
When I tell my story to a RW they say you should have sued. What most can't comprehend is they only thing you can sue an Insurance Company for is to provide the care they denied. You can not get punitive damages in most states, they do get fined but that money goes to the state not the individual. It's cheaper for them to pay the fine than provide the health care and they know it.

country has done in setting up their systems!!!

:evilgrin:

I always enjoy your posts Mythsaje. :hi:

Further proof, in case you need it, that we DON'T LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY...

The democratic arm of government, the House, has a minimal bill that does go in the right direction...reflecting the slightly democratic composition of the House.

The Senate, being ENTIRELY un-democratic, is going to kill nearly everything that is good in that bill, especially a public option that could compete with the leeches in the for-profit-sick-care-industry.

That's the way the Founding (white, rich, male, property-owning) Fathers designed it -- keep the masses from taking over from the elites...

You will get nothing BUT corruption from a corrupt system.

:wtf: :argh: :kick:

The game is fucking over. When both sides are on the same side, and it's not our side, the all the effort in the world, short of a revolution isn't going to matter one whit.

They will give you nothing until you force them. As Churchill said:
"Never, never, never give up."
Fight those greedy, grasping, evil bastards and their brainless moran followers to your last breath. If not for yourself, then for the people who really need it now - those unlucky enough to have a pre-existing condition or to have an emergency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Bevan

http://www.nhscampaign.org/news/79/80/What-is-so-good-about-the-NHS.html

As a Brit who lives in Germany I wish you well. My family are well cared for (our wonderful NHS) and I get top notch medical care (Techniker Krankenkasse). You deserve at least the same that we have.

If you give up now it will be another 20 years before another President tries.

Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number,
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many - they are few.

'What is Freedom? - ye can tell
That which slavery is, too well -
For its very name has grown
To an echo of your own.
Shelley

Guilty of morbid curiosity myself.

K&R.

If France, Canada, England, the Netherlands and Sweden can all have single payer..why cant we? These Nations all like it and keep voting for it so it must be good.
I am so sick of the citizens of this nation being screwed over for the fat cats I could scream.

Well said

:yourock:

Single payer wouldn't pass the senate. Let's get our foot in the door
first with the public option and it will sell itself, such anyone in the
future who opposes single payer will get their ass handed to them...

When Obama talks about "a uniquely American approach" he's also talking about protecting that putrid leech at our expense. How is that acceptable to anyone?


It is acceptable because after eight years of Bush, the charisma and personality factor that Obama possess persuade most people that this is all very good. After all, if we don't worship at Obama's feet, doesn't that mean Bush would be re-instated at the WH tomorrow?

So because of fear, there is no effort to look behind the curtain and figure out who is controlling the puppet strings.

The orchestrated RW noise, with all its extreme vitriol and hatred, has now convinced more Dems than ever that blind obedience is called for. Never mind that Corporatism has another name.

The RW insanity has helped both sides of the Corporate aisle - the RW side and the DLC corporatist.

Friedman Units to turn this all around (sarcasm). Amen to this post.

this is your best written work yet.
Very very nice. K&R

It's very gratifying to read.

Your best post yet.

I have seen the comments section on our local paper's website when any story has to do with health care.

I think that maybe the system needs to break down completely before REAL reform can happen. By that I mean, everyone will have to know someone or be affected themselves in order for the lightbulbs in these dimbulbs heads to go on.

I truly think the American populace are a bunch of morons. Certainly the rightwingers are, and anyone who falls for anything they say on Fox News.

you should never assume you have good insurance.

When I hear somebody say they are happy with their insurance it tells me one thing - they have never had a serious illness or had to make a major claim against their policy.

Unless they have TRICARE, VA, or Medicare, I'm pretty sure they do not have good insurance.

that I'm doing this because I think I NEED it. This really isn't about me.

I say that I have "good" insurance (not necessarily "great") because it deflects unwarranted criticism from the get-go).

:bounce::yourock::bounce:

:kick:

:hi:

Fokkin' parasite has gotta go!

Thank you for fighting along with those of us who don't have good health insurance (which I would tend to call an oxymoron anyways). This leach has sucked enough of this nation's blood and treasure for way too long and they must be stopped. Many of our very lives depend on it! Thanks again!

There were maybe 50-75 folks there. We signed the petition and delivered our personal letters to the editor. Truth be told, it felt more like an exercise in futility. We truly need thousands of folks turning out. I know Tacoma can have crowds turn out when they are motivated, I remember the caucuses not so long ago. My precinct had ten times the turnout they expected, most of us for Obama. The news reported similar turnouts all over King and Pierce County. I guess Health Care Reform ain't so motivating to folks around here.

Who can get excited about cold oatmeal . . . because that's what this package is shaping up to be. Even our highest leadership can't stand behind it. What's the point.

That's what I see in your numbers.

and went home to get ready for work. It's telling that most of the people who show up are older. The younger folks apparently don't see it as vital. :shrug:

I got so depressed over hearing the bullshit from Sebelius that I just posted a rant on another thread. I've seen health reform die in 1974, 1994 and I'm seeing it again. I got a call from the DCCC asking for cash and I just lost it with them. Not one more fucking cent for Democrats who lay down and die and let the Republicans get whatever they want. I'm fucking sick and tired of being lied to. I'm tired of bullshitting Democrats who sell us out all the time. I'm really at the point where I'm ready to quit the Democrats and ready to join others in creating an American version of Canada's New Democratic Party. and just concentrate taking over states like California and New York, set up single payer at the state level and let the rest of the country just drop dead.

I don't know what it's going to take to make him to stop being a dick, but I'm doing all I can. Thanks for your post, it helps to keep the fire alive.

If we went to a Canadian style single payer system tommorrow Wall Street would crash and burn.

Inevitably such a collapse is going to happen, the entire system is unsustainable, but for now our government is going to extremes to keep it all propped up.

The "universal" health care system we end up with when this is done will be a very expensive and temporary fix.

Then when the thing collapses -- taking out a good portion of Wall Street with it -- then we will get single payer.

Until this collapse the leeches will suck as much money out of us as they can.

Health care may be propping it up to some extent, but is dragging it down as well.

Thanks for voicing my rage.

The only thing the meek will inherit is front row seats in the leach feeder trough :grr:

BBC: "The humble leech's medical magic"

"The latest endorsement for using blood-sucking leeches for medical purposes has come from the US government."



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3858087.stm

The repukes load up busses with these people and send them to these town halls why are WE not doing that to those who OPPOSE healthcare!

The healthcare industry is spending millions on advertising to oppose this why are WE no spending to SUPPORT it.

They say your grandmother "WILL DIE" if she gets "gubment healthcare" (insane much ?) why dont WE point out that our grandmothers ARE dying when private healthcare refuses to cover what they need! (And lets be SURE to call them INSANE for even coming up with such a crazy notion)

They say "muh taxes wheel go up" why don't WE say your employer will be able to pay you MORE because they don't need to pay for "health care" and they will also be able to compete in the world market with companies in these countries that don't have to worry about health care which will mean MORE JOBS And since you will make more because you don't have to pay for health care outright you will spend more stimulating the economy etc etc.

We need to start our own "whisper campaigns" that tell the horrors of our current system that will overshadow the one they are running now

Send out those emails that show the cute kitten and say "I'm being sent to the pound and may be put down because my owner had to choose between feeding me or feeding herself because her health care is so expensive" you know they'll forward it just for the cute kitten alone lol

Anyway theres lots of little thing WE can should and WILL be doing to make sure america gets REAL health care reform. Just bitching about it while it does make us feel :) better is unacceptable

They need to keep those people employed.

they take our money
they take our vote
you would think they would show mercy about taking our lives

attend the WH summit along with two SP advocates was denied the fix was already in.

He was invited at the last minute along with Fr. Fein, only after a threatened protest by doctors outside the WH gates.

NT!

You can't imagine how many you've 'demoralized' with your most excellent OP.