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Brady Campaign: "Presidential protesters need to leave their firearms at home - no exceptions"

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:20 PM
Original message
Brady Campaign: "Presidential protesters need to leave their firearms at home - no exceptions"

http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=1173

Gun Responsibility:
Leave Loaded Firearms At Home
When Attending Presidential Events


For Immediate Release:
08-17-2009

Contact Communications:
(202) 898-0792 Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Washington, DC – Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, released the following statement on reports that a man was carrying what appeared to be a loaded assault rifle and a sidearm to President Obama's speech in Phoenix, Arizona today:

"Bringing loaded firearms to any Presidential event endangers all in attendance. Even though our weak national and state gun laws may allow this dangerous behavior, we should use a little common sense.

"Individuals carrying loaded weapons at these events require constant attention from police and Secret Service officers, thus stretching their protective efforts even thinner. The possibility that these weapons might be grabbed or stolen or accidentally mishandled increases the risks of serious injury or death to all in attendance.

"The National Rifle Association and other 'gun rights' groups need to send a message about 'gun responsibilities' to their members and all gun owners. Loaded weapons at political forums endanger all involved, distract law enforcement, and end up stifling debate. Presidential protesters need to leave their firearms at home - no exceptions."

#

There have been multiple reported incidents of guns being brought to town halls this month:

* Gun brought to town hall in Memphis, Tennessee: http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-to-enter-town-hall-fray-2009-08-11.html;

* Gun dropped at town hall in Sierra Vista, Arizona: http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/304149;

* Gun carried openly to President Obama's town hall in Portsmouth, New Hampshire: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/11/protester-with-gun-found_n_256614.html;

* Handgun found concealed in the car of an attendee of President Obama's town hall in Portsmouth, New Hampshire: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/more-details-emerge-on-the-concealed-gun-arrest-in-new-hampshire.php;

* AR-15 military-style assault weapon and handgun brought to President Obama's speech today in Phoenix, Arizona: http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/08/17/20090817obama-scene.html.

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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec'd
:kick:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Um, leave unloaded ones at home, too.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. lol, EXACTLY.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not sure even the mighty Brady Bunch can negate state laws
regarding open (or concealed) carry. They can ask, but they can't override the state laws.

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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. NOTHING is mightier than the NRA.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Sorry there are 84 million gun-owners and only 4 million NRA mbrs. Gun-owners helped elect Obama
after he promised "I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away."
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. How dare you inject facts into a perfectly satisfying hysterical discussion??
Shame.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. It's more than a bit ironic
that you and your other gun nut friends can't seem to understand the logic that the SS and local law enforcement's mandate to keep an eye on the idiots insisting on bringing a gun to a town hall meeting is stretching Obama's protection to the limit.

Then again, I'm sure you all think it's really, really cool.

Enjoy your freedoms. It's too goddamn bad you don't have as much respect for the freedom of those who don't choose to carry, but we all know that's unimportant. :sarcasm:
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. ROFL because I do have "respect for the freedom of those who don't choose to carry". Self-defense is
a personal responsibility since government is not obligated to protect a citizen.

Thirty percent of Americans will be a victim of violent crime in their lifetime.

When attacked by a violent criminal and seconds count, police are only minutes or hours away.

Over 800,000 law enforcement officers carry a handgun openly for self-defense and I carry a concealed handgun for the same reason.

I respect your decision to submit passively to a violent criminal if attacked and I promise not to come to your aid with my arms.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. what does any of this have to do with the issue at hand?
the idiots showing up with guns are using the resources of the police and the secret service who are supposed to be protecting obama.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Ask #15, that's the post to which I replied. n/t
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 05:10 PM by jody
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. That was my point
Then again, it was lost on one of the denizens of the Gungeon, who can't admit there may be even one place in this country that it's not appropriate to be packing heat.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Please read #5 to which I replied. n/t
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. i know that was your point...and i totally agree with you
leave your guns at home, idiots.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. No, thanks
You spend so much time on DU defending your gun fetish that it must be tough to cram in the time at the gun range, huh?

:rofl:
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Would defending one's FIRST amendment rights be more acceptable to your
obviously superior knowledge of which rights are valid?
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. Actually, I have a low tolerance for poseurs
Considering the fact we know probably 200 LEO's and a couple of Fed's, I'll leave the "protecting" to those who actually know what they're doing.
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Do you hang around with them, or just read detective novels?
I was a cop...worked my way through college that way...I'd trust maybe half of them to be less dangerous than the average civilian with a gun.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh, you're funny
DH is a long-term volunteer at a local police department. He has a limited commission as well.

His father is former WSP.

We know hundreds of local cops due to DH's participation with the department he volunteers for. I also used to be a city councilperson in our community; part of my job was working with our police chief.

One of my friends is a special agent with twenty years' experience for a three-letter government agency.

Got any more questions? In the meantime, I don't read detective novels. Sounds like you do, though.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
43. Do you believe you have a right to bear arms everywhere?
How about on a plane?

The fundamentalist arguments about Gun rights are not based on sanity. You don't have a right to bear that arm in any forum and place and time. It is these kind of arguments where one group infringes on the rights of the others and eventually you will hurt your own rights.
Common sense and decency have a place even when it comes to fundamental rights.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. well?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. I'll accept SCOTUS words, see below.
2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #46
59. Then it sounds as if you
agree that carrying guns to a presidential event can be legally prohibited.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. IMO Congress has that authority but what area constitutes "a presidential event" would
be up to the courts to decide, e.g. within 1 yard of the podium versus 10,000 yards of that podium.
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704wipes Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Will it at least be ok to check these fuckers' PERMITS
what with the NRA saying we just have to enforce all the laws that are already on the books, why not just make these fuckers show permits and id? Record who they are if everything is in order and cart them the hell off if they don;t have their permits in order...

Just follow the letter of any law already on the books since all the shit-hooks at the NRA will be ok with that, do you suppose?
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. You don't have to have a permit to open-carry like that.
Only for concealed-carry.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. Psst.. planes are private property..
.. few open carry advocates would pitch a fit about private property owners' choosing to restrict carrying there.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. But it is not the carriers that restrict you from carrying, it is the FAA
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #43
58. Who is claiming the RKBA is absolute?
Certainly not the Supreme Court.

"nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms." - DC v. Heller (2008).

However public property likely doesn't fall into "sensitive places" as defined by SCOTUS.
The area around the President does that is why there were no guns within line of sight of the President.
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
47. Self-Delete.
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 09:44 PM by LAGC
Wrong spot.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
68. but ya see, you guys dont protect anything
had a shooting at a mega church here few years ago. Middle of conservative central with a helping of rabid "2nd amendment" supporters. of the hundreds of folks there, none of them had a weapon, or if they did, decided to use it. Was an armed, uniformed and trained security guard who stopped the maniac from killing anyone else.

I also like how you think I will willingly submit to an attack because I dont carry a gun. You're funny. I can defend myself and family in just about any situation. Even though you try and exude this "im protected because I carry a gun" what you are really saying is that you are DEFENSLESS without it!!

must be hard to walk around with that crutch.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
67. Do you have a point?
Nobody's reaching for your gun, pardner. However, those of us who prefer not to own guns would appreciate it if those people who do own them handle them responsibly. It IS irresponsible (among other things) to carry a gun at a presidential event. You don't think the Secret Service has a tough enough job without having to figure out if every person packing is a threat? I would imagine they DO assume every person packing is a threat. I know I would.

Geez. Common sense.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. What is your point? n/t
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm warning you now, life is going to go to hell and a hand basket the next few years.
This is the start of it. People are already upping the the ante, and that's scary.
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. And zero incidents. I'm more worried about nutcase cops than those people.
In any case I don't take orders from the NRA -or- from the Republican Brady Bunch.
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divideandconquer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. How is the Brady campaign more Republican than the NRA?
Just wondering?
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Keep wondering...nobody said it was.
:eyes:
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. That would apply to the police as well, of course?
Leave Loaded Firearms At Home
When Attending Presidential Events


Of course, that would apply to the firearms of local law enforcement as well, right?

Can't be sure that the local bubba sheriff is safe to have around the president. Just isn't worth the risk.
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. It has amazed me since I started reading posts here how much DUers hate cops but think
only cops should have the right to own guns. I can't even begin to explain what kind of insane mindset that represents.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. i have no problem with gun ownership
i do have a problem with the fools who are showing up at town hall meetings with guns.
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. But those are all people displaying them openly! They get all the attention
which is understandable but are the LEAST likely people to actually cause any trouble!
I know it isn't rocket science but it ought to be reasonably clear to even the most untutored casual observer...
:shrug:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. why are they the LEAST likely? you can be fucking crazy and still carry.
i'm an untutored casual observer
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. You can be fucking crazy and be a longtime cop too.
I tell you that as a former policeman - if you think I am wrong, we have nothing more to discuss.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
69. its the same as wearing a white hood to a NAACP meeting
its a message of menace, hate and criminal intimidation.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. i've been here many years and have no sense that du'er hate the police...maybe certain police
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Viper Mad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. True...just the ones with badges.
I assume you were being sarcastic...yes?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. I don't hate cops. I hate violent assholes.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
55. you are making a false assumption
but please go ahead and document that many "DUers hate cops but think only cops should have the right to own guns".
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. no, we have to draw the trust line with the local police...but anyone else....fuck no
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. priceless n/t
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. I say let the Secret Service decide if local and state laws are inadequate. Not agenda driven...


...anti-gun folks.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. i agree w/this. it takes away ss time guarding obama in order to
watch those who have guns with them--making sure they don't take a dive off the deep end and start firing into the crowd or at obama.

besides, guns tend to be a factor of intimidation--which has a tendency to really put a damper on the free speech of others.

i would imagine it's a bit more difficult to say republicans are idiots to a crowd of republicons with guns. so...they intimidate us into silence. that's fucked up
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. i agree-
it's just common sense.

K&R
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. k&r
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. a-fucking-men.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. How many of these gun-nuts showed up, packing, to Bush events?
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 06:44 PM by SoCalDem
The secret service needs to put them all in "free-speech zones", like our side had when Bush was squatting in the White House.. About 6 blocks away...behind barbed wire..guarded by local cops. Let 'em patrol around shouting at each other & waving their signs around..

The secret service has enough to do, without having to babysit some gun-nuts who want their "in-your-face-black man" moment.:grr:
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #41
61. To answer your question - none. The SS would have
disappeared them immediately. They would more than likely have ended up at Gitmo with no rights and no access to a lawyer. And the media would have been working overtime to paint them as left wing terrorists.


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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. Here's another Recommend
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
44. These idiots are purposely trying to stretch the resources of the SS and local police
If more and more show up, it gets harder and harder to keep an eye on them all.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
73. When they get 20-30 of them, all with rifles (not to mention scopes on them) they may
shut down some events.
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
48. I wouldn't be worried so much about those "open-carry" types.
Surely someone who plans on plugging the President isn't going to be so blatant about it.

They're harmless "gun nuts" making a statement -- nothing more.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
50. People who love their country should protect the President even if they disagree
with her/him. Period. It's a matter of the utmost national security; losing a president severely weakens the entire nation.

Our national enemies could easily adopt this tactic--then what happens?

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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
54. Hey, check it out. The Brady Campaign trying to be relevant.
I had wondered if they and just closed up shop.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. So you have no problem with 10 people showing up at a
location the president will be at with guns?

Maybe you should check your relevance, and history.
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. I dare you to tell me how getting rid of open carry around presidents
would change anything ever.

If they Brady Campaign wants to address this, they can try to get a law passed to fix the thing they have a problem with. They are just doing their best to get some attention for their has-been organization.

"Only security personnel are authorized to have firearms within the designated secure area of the presidential event."

It would be just that easy, and would probably have the support of both parties.

But the secure area ends where it ends. It doesn't keep going for as far as the eye can see.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. You dare me? What happened to your ethics?
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 11:44 AM by babylonsister
You know there are a bunch of crazies out there with trigger fingers just waiting for an opportunity.

I dare you to tell me what other president had to contend with this scenario? Oh, besides a couple of Kennedys, Lincoln, King, you know the drill.

All I'm saying is they should be kept far enough away to not be a danger to anyone. That would also lessen the challenges security has to contend with.

Keep your goddamn guns...away from the president. And that applies to any and all presidents.
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Pretty spectacular failure there.

You want to pass a law that says no guns around the president? Fine go ahead. Are you thinking that the threat of breaking the law of "no guns around the president" is going to stop a crazy person who wants to murder the president?
What is it some kind of magical law that crazy people can't break.
Do you believe that if you ban all open carrying people won't be able to figure out to hide their guns. It doesn't take a freakin genius to figure out to hide the gun if you plan on killing the president.

I dare you to name how a ban on the open carrying of guns in the public around a president would change anything at all, except to calm down the hysterical people who just can't handle the sight of a *GASP* gun. *faint*



Jesus Christ. Just put the fucking yellow tape farther back and be done with it.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
72. Except that scopes on rifles extend the eye's range. What then?
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
57. unloaded weapons are okay?
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
62. K&R
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
63. I mentioned in another post how
many municipalities will protect citizens from second hand smoke, but it's ok to be exposed to a pissed off nutcase with a gun. What the fuck!
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
65. Guns don't belong in courtrooms or at public meetings as a "statement" (threat).
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