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Was woodstock a significant event to minorities at the time? Does it remain significant?

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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:38 PM
Original message
Was woodstock a significant event to minorities at the time? Does it remain significant?
Though recalcitrant to post another woodstock thread, my curiosity has been piqued. What does woodstock signify to non-white america as an event and as a legacy? Obviously there is a line that passes through the sixties and leads to Obama's presidency, but is the woodstock music and art festival a point on that graph?


Mods: I understand if this is one too many, but I hope it is relevant.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not much. And it's reluctant, not recalcitrant.
Again, you could have asked this in any other other threads on Woodstock.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Thanks for the vocab tip.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Google turned up an interesting article...
http://www.theroot.com/views/why-we-should-celebrate-woodstock

This weekend marks the 40th anniversary of the Woodstock Music & Art Fair. Hundreds of thousands of folks journeyed to Max Yasgur’s 600-acre farm to hear 32 rock acts, withstanding interminable traffic jams, monsoon-like thunderstorms, mud for days, sub-par sanitary conditions and a dwindling food supply—without resorting to anarchy.

It was—as is evidenced by the plethora of newly released CDs, DVDs, books and movies commemorating that weekend—a seminal moment in rock history. But as we celebrate that historic counterculture movement, exactly what does it mean to black America? For all the post-politicizing of the event, even though it occurred at such a pivotal point in America’s socio-political time (and even more eerie, a week after the Manson murders), Woodstock was a mostly apolitical, escapist affair, save for the implied gestures from Richie Haven’s performance “Freedom/Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child,” Joan Baez’s introductory story about the Federal Marshals taking her husband, David Harris, into custody for “draft evasion.”

The most overt, if seismic political statement occurred Monday morning, coincidentally as most of the attendees had left. Rocking a white, fringed and beaded leather shirt and a red headscarf, Jimi Hendrix launched into his epochal rendition of “The Star-Spangled Banner.” His face expressed a calmness as if he was meditating on his memories of his one-year stint in the Army, the fallen soldiers in the Vietnam War, the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.—all at once. After initially squalling out the melody with cathartic release of a Pentecostal gospel singer, Hendrix infused the National Anthem with an improvisatory explosion, marked by fast-fingered runs, whammy-bar-inducing howls, shrieks; he created sonic missiles as if they were dropped from warplanes above. The two-minute rendering became one of the most defining moments in black American music, if not, popular music, worldwide, as Hendrix manipulated dissonance and consonance.

If the underlying message of the festival was “An Aquarian Exposition: 3 Days of Peace and Music,” surely that would have extended to the legions of black Americans, who were routinely beaten, killed and jailed as they strived for equal rights. And even though Woodstock festival opened (Havens) and closed (Hendrix) with two black music figures and featured the rock-fueled Afro-Latin sounds of the interracial band Santana, the “dissonance and consonance” sentiments of Hendrix’s interpretation of the National Anthem seemed to resonate with the programming in relation to the soundtrack of mainstream black America—Motown’s “Sound of Young America,” Stax’s Memphis soul and James Brown’s “Say It Loud, I’m Black & I’m Proud.” Even the sonic eruptions of jazz’s New Thing movement, spearheaded by saxophonists Albert Ayler, Pharoah Sanders and John Coltrane were noticeably missing from Woodstock.

The only hint at mainstream R&B was Sly & the Family Stone’s gripping Saturday night set that included a galvanizing performance of “I Want to Take You Higher,” which nearly transformed the festival into a fervid Wednesday night church revival. Their entire performance is captured in all its electrifying, holy glory on The Woodstock Experience (SONY/Legacy). The band concentrates on its seminal LP, Stand!, released that same year, ripping through songs like the titled track, “You Can Make It If You Try” and “Everyday People.” The interracial and mix-gender makeup of the group seemed to embody the highest ideals of the hippie culture.

But to watch the crowd scenes in The Woodstock Experience, speckled with only a few black faces—none of which are shown in the groovy-looking segment of nude, carefree hippies, skinny-dipping in a lake and talking about freedom—brings about that recurring, odd, “hard to put your finger on it” experiences that many black Americans feel. It happens whenever there’s a so-called liberal, mostly white celebration, in which blacks are pressed against an invisible wall that can’t be penetrated, no matter how well-meaning the invite or enthusiastic the invitee. Like Hendrix’s interpretation of “The Star-Spangled Banner,” it evokes consonance and dissonance.

Woodstock may have missed the mark on conventional black American culture, but it succeeded in acknowledging how blacks and Latinos contributed to the cutting edges of rock, soul and folk at that time. Hendrix, Sly Stone, Santana and Havens became the archetypes for latter figures such as Parliament Funkadelic, Prince, Living Colour, The Roots, TV on the Radio, Outkast, Janelle Monae, Ben Harper, the Noisettes and Mos Def. Woodstock helped paved the way for black musicians to challenge the artistic status quo, both within and outside racial barriers. That much is undeniable. Just as Rev. Al Sharpton aptly noted that before there was a Barack Obama, there was Michael Jackson, before there was a Barack Obama or a Michael Jackson, there were also Havens, Hendrix, Sly and Santana at Woodstock, serving as Obama would have described “agents of change.”
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I like the Sharpton quote. n/t
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Of course, long before Woodstock there were...
Motown and R&B which were almost entirely "minority." Mighta been a few "minority" bands at Woodstock, but they were rockers-- no Coasters or Aretha. Woodstock didn't really do shit for uptown bands.

(BTW, just where would Elvis have been without R&B?)

Eyewitness acounts vary, but seems the only jen-yoo-wine political statement made was Abbie Hoffman grabbing the mike to talk about some stoner jailed for a few joints and getting whacked off the stage by Pete Townsend's guitar. Sure, everyone was all bent over Viet Nam, Martin's marches, and even the environment, but the real point on the farm was sex and drugs and rock&roll.

That's it-- get high, get naked, get laid, and lissen to da music. Ain't no politics gettin' in the way of that.

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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Awesome; thanks.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Does it need to be significant to Minorities?
The article posted makes it sound like, (paraphrasing) "though they tried to incorporate Minorites, they didn't do it as well as they could/should have."

It shouldn't include them though just for the sake of including them, like from a big list picking and choosing artists based on the color of their skin. It was a big rock concert for Peace and Love, and drugs and partly a war protest, a mass hippie commune, among many other things. They got some black artists there and some white artists and everything was great. No coulda/shoulda/woulda about it.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I meant is it considered a watershed moment of any kind;
not whether or not the attendance was diverse enough.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Shhh...you're not supposed to ask uncomfortable questions like that

"Man, Hendrix was there! Isn't that enough?"
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I meant is the event considered a touchstone for boomer minorities.
Not the attendance.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. I knew exactly what you meant...
In my statement, I was assuming the voice of an apologist for the "wonderfulness"
In short, I was being sarcastic.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. *whoosh* - thought I felt my hair move...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. No problem...I was just mocking how they grasp at straws
But they are quite experienced at grasping, aren't they?
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. It didn't do much for whites at the time, either. Or hippies.
They may have gotten a slightly better image among the more open-minded, but when I was growing up, hippies were still denied service in many stores (ex: 'no shirt, no shoes, no service') and many minorities and those who were steeped in the counterculture were still looked upon with disgust. It was significant in many other ways, but it was not really a pop cultural event that would be especially significant to minorities.

If you want to know what pop cultural phenomenon had an impact, it would be The Blues and Rock 'N Roll embraced by large numbers of white youths and white musicians, but still, that didn't do much for minorities since people like Elvis and Pat Boone became acceptable conduits. The groundbreaking tv sitcoms like 'All in The Family', 'Chico and the Man', 'Good Times' and 'The Cosby Show' had a much larger impact, oddly enough- good and bad. I'm still convinced that we likely would not have had a black President so soon had it not been for '24'.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. good point
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 05:07 PM by G_j
I had friends who were beat up for having long hair. I just barely escaped physical harm a few times
I can remember being chased down the road by four huge jocks yelling they were going to kill me.

also severely harassed by the police a few times
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Elvis and Pat Boone were passé in the 60s
You're right in pointing out that Elvis and Pat Boone to some extent rode on the coattails of black artists that preceded them and used their sound to gain fame, especially Elvis (Boone was kind of a crooner and not very bluesy). But during the 60s, black blues artists like Albert King, BB King, T-Bone Walker, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters, Howling Wolf, John Lee Hooker and several others became popular in their own right and were being played on rock and roll radio stations and their albums were often selling well. They were finally getting the recognition they so richly deserved and the white kids in the rock generation were buying their records and going to their concerts, thanks to the praise and exposure they had received from artists like the Rolling Stones and Jimi Hendrix.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Just a few blacks were hippies
It's not like the counterculture movement was like an exclusive club though. Being under 30, not a narc, and reasonably mellow so as not to freak out trippers, were the only requirements to be accepted.

It was my understanding that blacks had their own, different youth culture at that time and dropping out of a middle class society just did not strike a chord with them.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. So you wouldn't expect woodstock to be a significant memory for them?
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Imo, the entire era was one of great significance.
Indeed, there were different groups with whom we associated. Some militant, some hippie and some cross between the two, but the message was the same.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. No I wouldn't, not at all.
But it would be nice to hear it from a black perspective.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. Joan Baez, Santana, Hendrix plus a bunch of women? I'd say, yeah..
That's one of the things about the "counterculture" that scared the authoritarians. :)
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. Richie Havens too.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. That's right. I met him once at Comedy Day. He's TALL.
lol
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Crooked Moon Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. of course
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 07:09 PM by Crooked Moon
music, especially popular music of the mid-20th century, did a great deal for integration and acceptance between the races.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. This makes sense to me, though there is still the issue of white people
utilizing black blues and jazz based riffs and songs and making huge sums of money popularizing it. I guess it is complicated.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. When you start 4-5 threads about the same topic in 24 hours, it's not "recalcitrance."
It's an inability to stop yourself.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Kicking in hopes more people will read your signature line.
While I may be critical of the potential relevance of woodstock as an event, I would certainly not ever stoop to the shit-beetle level of your sig line.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Kicking in hopes more people will read it, too.
And don't kid yourself. You stoop to shit beetle levels all the time.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Stop focusing on Twitter trending topics - k? nt.
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