About 12 people were carrying guns, including at least one semi-automatic assault rifle, outside a building where President Obama was speaking today.

No one was arrested outside the VFW National Convention in Phoenix, according to the Associated Press, where hundreds of people demonstrated both for and against health care reform. There are no reports that the 12 were part of an organized group.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/08/twelve-carry-guns----including-assault-rifle----outside-obama-event.php


Several people carried guns at rallies outside an event where President Obama was speaking.

I hope the Secret Service is ready.

I think we have good teams covering the First Family.

But would send a powerful "WTF" message to the disruptors...

:evilgrin:

"He won't stand still!"

Funny, at the time. Now, not so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NyvYwfZR38

intimidate the general public. To show us how "real patriots" act.

unless he's gone one way or another.

They think Democrats are scared of them..When push comes to shove they may be in for a real shock...

Just how badly is the stupid burning you?

But I'll warn you that you won't like what you see.

If this person wanted to do an assassination, he's not quite subtle enough. Can you imagine the Secret Service attention he had?

If he had swatted at a mosquito on his neck, I'm quite sure that the Secret Service would have turned what little brains he had into a pink mist.

I suggest that President Obama should not do any more town halls for a while. There is going to be a shooting soon, either one of these assholes getting trigger happy or, more likely, someone mistakes a butt scratch or getting the keys from the pocket as a move to draw a weapon (and I'm not talking about the SS here, they are very professional, but some local rookie cop assigned to the event).

What was the phrase used... "All it takes is a spark".

By the language in the Assault Weapons Ban, this weapon would be considered as such.

All weapons in the military are just that, weapons. Some are assault and some are artilary but all are called weapons. An old fashioned bazooka is a weapon but it's usage was not for assault purposes and you can not fix a bayonet to it. The whole thing about assault weapons is the amount of fire power in short time span. You can argue about spitting all the hairs you want but the general public knows an assault weapon when they see one..In the Korean War the old M1 Carbine was only semi auto matic and it was listed as an assault weapon. They later added a selector switch to it to make it full auto if wanted...In Vietnam the South Vietnamese had both models the M1 Carbine and the M2 Carbine.. Both were considered Assault (rifles)weapons.

Sigh.

Do you or do you not understand that "assault weapon" and "assault rifle" refer to two different categories of weapons, and that no "assault weapon" is an "assault rifle", and no "assault rifle" is an "assault weapon"? Please just answer that.

The whole thing about assault weapons is the amount of fire power in short time span.

No.

Assault weapons shoot no faster than any other civilian weapon, including your granddad's old deer-hunting rifle. And they will be significantly less powerful and safer to handle than your granddad's old deer-hunting rifle.

Assault rifles (which are not assault weapons) are capable of firing a lot of rounds quickly. But that's not "the whole thing" about them; the "whole thing" about them (why they were invented) is that they are lighter to carry and less powerful than battle rifles (yet another class of weapon).

The military has never used the term "assault weapon" ever. It is a kinda stupid term "assault" weapon. Really as opposed to the other "sunshine & rainbow" weapons the Army has.

would have met AWB criteria.

Also it's possible the rifle was purchased before the AWB and was grandfathered in.

Other DUers with other views will probably reply to your question.

Of course the AWB is no longer a federal law.

You also are correct that since the statutory definition of assault weapon is listed only in the assault weapon ban and it expired that definition expired with it (outside of a few areas with state or city bans) in 2004.

The "assault WEAPONS ban" only classified certain weapons as assault WEAPONS a made up term used by the assault WEAPONS ban. The word "assault RIFLE" has a very well defined definition and never appears a single time in the assault WEAPONS ban of 1994.

An assault rifle is a rifle designed for combat, with selective fire (capable of shooting in both fully automatic and semi automatic modes). Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies, having largely superseded or supplemented larger and more powerful battle rifles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

A key feature of assault rifles is select fire.

No assault rifles were banned in the 1994 AWB because they were already restricted by the 1968 Gun Control Act along with all other automatic weapons.

Saying semi-automatic assault rifle is like saying a car with a manual automatic transmission.

"assault rifle" but you could be right, as I stated above, that the rifle is an "assault weapon" under the old AWB.

..the collapsible stock was pinned, whether or not it had a bayonet lug, and a removable muzzle brake.

(The silliness of the '94 AWB- that really didn't ban many guns {just 'features'} knows no bounds.)

since they are in such close proximity to the commander in chief.

When this happens in a place where a permit is required to own/carry a gun I think authorities should be asking to see the permits, check against other id and record exactly who these people are. Local authorities should be doing it too. It should be announced that it WILL BE DONE before hand and anyone who does not comply/ or does not have the permit is detained in a holding pen for the duration of the visit. It is a matter of protecting the president and the unarmed people, including children who are attending...

They should check if the permit presented matches the gun being carried. No permit/no match, confiscate the gun and arrest the person...just follow the letter of any prevailing law that the NRA says we already have plenty of.

.. open carrying cannot be a *trying to think of the right term* probable cause? to check the gun / owner. As long as they don't get past the secured perimeter, all I'd give them is a couple of :eyes: 's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion

Reasonable suspicion = level required to stop and investigate
Probable Cause = level required to make an arrest

However in no state is complying with the law (open carry where legal) rise to reasonable suspicion and any officer attempted to do so likely bought his/her dept a nice fat lawsuit.

This is kinda a moot point because most states that issue a carry permit (most commonly for conceal carry) require the permit to be surrender to Police upon demand (similar to driver's license). The law demands it thus no reasonable suspicion is needed.

AZ requires no permit to open carry so there would be nothing to demand and no reasonable suspicion to detain/investigate.

Even conceal carry only requires a carry permit and that is for the individual not the weapon.
There are no per weapon permits in most states.

I am taking a guess you neither own a weapon, nor are familiar with the laws related to them.

You wouldn't know that from watching TV, but its only a handful of states that register handguns and an even smaller subset that register rifles.

It's amazing how death just doesn't give a shit what make or caliber the weapon is.

:eyes:

God knows you've always exhibited a lot of concern. Well, just as long as you're correcting others on the make and model of firearms.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

No. You assault humans with weapons designed to punch holes in the front and blow big holes out the back. That is why those weapons are called "assault" weapons.


1. A violent physical or verbal attack.
2.
a. A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.
b. The concluding stage of an attack in which close combat occurs with the enemy.
3. Law.
a. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
b. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.
4.
a. Law. Sexual assault.
b. The crime of rape.

I don't see Deer in the above...

And not to defend Obama either, but to defend their gun-toting nut-job thugs.

"to defend their gun-toting nut-job thugs."

Enjoy your blissful state.

Your response was to nitpick the story, arguing semantics over "assault weapon" verbiage, etc. I can almost always count on Gungeon regulars to try and dilute or diminish any story about someone brandishing guns at a political rally.

... and that distraction could be exploited by a determined assassin. This is reckless and malicious, imho.

There is a time and place to make a statement about your right to keep and bear arms. This is not the time nor the place. Not very sensible at all imho.

When he wears his sword, since it is a real edged weapon, he is required to secure it by tying the hilt to the scabbard. This is because of events in the past when some kid snuck up behind a swordsman and pulled their sword.

I don't see straps over those weapons to prevent someone other than the person wearing them from yanking them out of their holsters. This worries me. I'll assume the people openly carrying the guns do not intend to start an incident. But what about a random crazy?

And yes, I understand guns can have safeties while swords do not, but still, what does it take to flip the safety if you've yanked the gun away from its owner?

.. can't tell about the third one (probably does, though.) The guy in the middle had his hand holding the barrel down in the footage I saw.

Thanks!

At some point it becomes dangerous even with fantastic SS protection.

BTW, most of us predicted exponential growth after gun nut #1 whipped out his alt-dick and showed it off to everyone.

I have a lot of guns myself but would never take one to a political event. I don't think you can open carry in NC, but I'm tempted to show up at a republican rally with my 9mm, on one hip and my 357 on the other, and my .30-06 rifle and a public option sign just to see what would happen.

advocates are cheering these clowns as "patriots." The NRA, and their gun-cultists, will not be satisfied until every man, woman, and child in the U.S.A. is openly carrying a firearm. That's their version of the "American Way," and of upholding our Constitutional Rights.

One thing, however, this rush to promote the carrying and display of 2nd Amendment "patriotism," should be a major boon for the personal body-armor industry, and private ambulance companies.

This is the shit that goes on in Somalia or Kenya or Serbia - armed thugs attempting to intimidate the opposition.

much less guns.

I don't remember if they won or not.

Also some individuals were arrested outside of a 2004 bush event for wearing John Kerry pins on their jackets. I believe they also pursued a lawsuit.

IMO.

Any day now, there will be a new Secret Service directive about weapons within a given radius of the president...

Love to see the Repukes argue against it.

After all, their Second Amendment rights trump everyone else's rights, including the President's.

threat to POTUS

these goobers with guns a threat. If they did, swift and effective action would be taken. Some of us have experienced the Secret Service in real life. They are damn good and will always err on the side of protection vice worrying about the feelings of said goober.

Why is an armed person allowed near the President?

has established for the safety of the president. But that being said IMHO this has gotten way out of control and has become a RW way of making a point & intimidating.

And people carrying openly makes their job a lot easier than people carrying concealed.

You have to be joking. "Makes their job easier"? Hell, yeah.

At some point, Obama will either not be able to come out of the White House due to his SS team being overwhelmed, or those who'd like to attend the town halls will stop doing so out of fear.

Of course, this is a win for the gun nuts.

The odds that no-one in an un-metal-detected crowd is carrying are close to 0, though, whether their concealed carrying is legal or not.

The Secret Service has effectively unlimited resources. The goobers will not pin the President in the White House

Next time, it'll be 100.

What happens then?

I have a feeling this might happen.

Holy crap, from what I have seen here on DU you will kill someone any moment now.

Wow. Don't guns MAKE you hurt people?

Why are "people legally owning guns" showing up armed to a debate about HEALTH CARE?

The debate still went on, no one got shot.

We have more to fear from people not legally owning them than people who do.

If someone really wanted to hurt Obama do you think they would be carrying the gun in plain view of everyone???

There's no way. My dad is an average gun owner. He doesn't pack at political rallies.

These guys are obviously trying to create an atmosphere of threat to the president.

and the guys with $700 dollar sidearms open carry are there to KILL someone. Being stupid is not illegal. These guys are just really stupid. However no one has been inconvenienced yet.

In an urban/surburban area? You think in even an open carry state people carrying long guns might not cause citizens to be phoning 911?

they did it, so did bikers. I could give a shit. If one of those morons fucks up his brains will become a dry cleaning nightmare for those near him. This is drama, dont take the bait.

And that sure freaked out the white people. Hell I had one white guy tell me he just bought a gun because of the supposed "Black Panthers" intimidating voters in the 2008 election in Philly.

You don't believe that = you are full of shit.

After all, nothing has happened yet and we've had a grand total of 3 events at which people showed up armed.

Yeah, not a chance that anything will go wrong as more and more people show up with loaded weapons just because they can.

Years ago, I caught my then-4-year-old daughter swinging on the shower curtain in our bathroom. I told her to stop, it would fall down and she'd get hurt. She looked at me incredulously and replied, "It didn't fall down!"

See, she just *knew* that if it hadn't fallen down so far, then it wasn't going to fall down.

A few minutes later I heard a large crash coming from the direction of the bathroom... Fortunately, she was a bit shaken but not hurt.

Do you get why I'm telling this story here?????

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I don't recall people toting guns around any other president before. Bunch of racist assholes.

Next there will be an open gum battle as one of these fucking gun hugging heroes tries to prove HIS point, and dies for it.


This is a dangerous situation, and every one of these fuckers should be detained and investigated. I don't give a shit, this is out of control.

At least that's what the former agent said on Rachel.

...but it's surely motivating for me. It's like a warning shot has been fired.

Somebody please stop them. We only want to help then they do THIS?!? I am physically shaking as I type this...

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your in a sharpshooters cross's hairs the second you arrive till you leave.

And the FBI does nothing. There is no good to come from this. It must cease.

"Take your Sweetness and blend in with the crowd..."

Having a loaded assault weapon at a political forum is as about as appropriate as having an erection at a day care center.

THESE PEOPLE ARE QUIET TERRORISTS.

THESE PEOPLE ARE QUIET TERRORISTS.

He thinks this is a danger and a distraction to the agents. He thinks Secret Service ought to make the protective zone a mile from an event. Sounds like a good plan to me.

There's no way you can extend security to a mile without diluting its effectiveness.
Unless you hire 4x as many SS agents to cover 4X as much area/buildings.

How about this: "Keep armed people OUTSIDE the security perimeter"
They have the authority to do this and do. POTUS is safe.

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