In case you don't get it, the guys carrying guns are doing it to get a rise out of you

They're doing it so that you will freak out and flood your Congressman with requests to Federally ban openly carrying firearms in the same town as a Presidential appearance, or whatever. And while you're at it, you'll probably ask them to reinstate the assault weapons ban.

They're doing it because the comments in this forum alone prove that most of you don't know what the assault weapons ban did, or for that matter how guns work and what different kinds of guns there are. It's a conversation I have a lot with my fellow Democrats, who all too often will admit they don't even know what the AWB did two minutes after they say without hesitation that I'm "crazy" for having opposed it.

They're doing it because that's all they have -- and worse yet, it's our fault they even have that. Our party's mistakes over the past few decades in gun control -- focusing on the wrong kinds of weapons, speaking in total ignorance of the subject, addressing certain tools of violence rather than the causes of violence -- have been the one and only one reliable source of public support they have.

So far, to my knowledge, nobody has broken any law. An assassin (God forbid!) is not going to openly carry his firearm to an appearance. The Secret Service know what they are doing, and they have not yet seen the need to require disarmament in the public space surrounding an appearance, and I don't see the need to second guess them.

Don't take our party down this path again -- please. It's just about the only way we can screw this up.

And I notice it wasn't an issue in Montana last week. Dollars to donuts there are a lot more guns here than in Arizona. Lived in both places. Know the difference between real and pretend cowboys. ;)

freaked out by them. :+

I don't, but then I chose to live in Boston (gun-crime-free paradise that it is).

I personally would not choose to openly carry in most situations, but if people choose to in accordance with local laws I certainly support their exercise of that right.

them out if they started noticing that we are carrying firearms openly with our lattes.

:rofl:

One chap spent three years avoiding me on the street. :rofl:

they are doing more than just trying to get a rise out of people. They are using their right to carry to bully folks.

John Lewis is his name. I'm sure he is very concerned about the President's safety too.

We should all write our Representatives to get something done about this NOW. You get a gold star for being Johnny on the Spot with a bright idea!

Do you think the Secret Service's current latitude for establishing gun-free zones around POTUS is insufficient? Honestly I don't know how much more latitude they could be given; it's pretty much absolute. They simply don't see a need to do it in these situations.

safely behind ballistic glass. They can show that they're "here and queer for guns" and they can watch the parade like everyone else, but they'll have to stay inside the bulletproof pen so the Secret Service and police don't have to assign 3 guys to watch each gun freak individually.

Again I'd like to thank you for bringing this to our attention.

As a gun owner myself this is appalling, and a form of intimidation.

And I'd rather people carry openly than concealed.

a good assassin could find a hole in Obama's defense.

Fear of the Black Gun (AR-15 variants) strikes again.

What specific way do you have in mind to prevent people from openly carrying weapons in the vicinity of the President in jurisdictions where the open carrying of weapons is legal? Currently the Secret Service has very extensive latitude in determining who and what can be around where the President is -- do you want to force them to make different decisions than they are making now?

Do you want a Federal law to prevent non-law-enforcement personnel from being armed near the President? How close is "near"? Do private security contractors count? Who will enforce it? Will it stop attacks?

If someone who is not a member of his security detail carries a gun to an event he's at, a minimum of one mandatory week in jail with intensive questioning about his history, friends, organizations, and his reason for doing so.

when Bush was president?

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In reading this thread, it becomes clear that many people are not familiar with what options the Secret Service has (they do not need a new "law," for example, to maintain control as they see fit), nor with the difference between a Secret Service policy (including options on guns), and a White House policy (no thinking people at a Bush rally).

The fellow was looking to exploit a situation, and create a higher level of paranoia. And that is giving him the benefit of the doubt.

at a place like that, he is showing his ass.

any consolation there will be lots or Republicans there. That guarantees lots of ass(holes).

Are they gone yet?

:eyes:

Some of them probably believe that the essence of "civil rights" in the US is that of being able to do whatever they want with a firearm, period.

Look here n***er! We gots guns.

And there's just one r in harass.

It's that simple. These gun toting gasbags are just showing how much they hate a black man in the Whitehouse. It's the old white man's use of intimidation mixed with an adolescent desire to cause race wars. They're hoping black people start something with them so they can finally have their war on. All the talk about rights and the rest of the crap is totally uncalled for. If they carried their weapons around all the time and to Republican events you could say they're exercising their rights, but they don't. They only do it to Democratic events where President Obama is. It's all blustering bravado disguised by their so-called rights.

They don't do it in other venues. They don't do it to the town halls for the Democratic Congressmen.

The rise they want to get is where blacks get mad enough to start something. And I'm betting they're organized and coordinating their actions. I hope someone in the media looks into who these guys are. They're all probably from the same Survivalist groups.

In case nobody noticed 2nd Amendment issues pretty much went away with that Supreme Court decision about the DC gun laws. However if one of these clowns can manage to act peacefully and also get his guns confiscated, well, Presto! You've got a brand new rallying cry where none existed before.

Nothing happens by accident, nothing is driven by fools. This is hardball politics and the people calling the shots have plenty of dupes they can have do their shitty business.

Thankfully, President Obama is not taking the bait and rushing to curtail rights like Bush the idiot did without any justification. Wedge issue extraordinaire.

why can't Obama have free-gun zones.

There's always a security cordon around the President, and these guys aren't going to get inside of that.

If they could stay in a cordoned-off area then it would be easier.

Just for some history, and maybe some context

The Black Panthers political group used to watch police arrest while armed, carrying rifles, and they would say as long as they are not interfering they have the right to view a police action, and the right to carry weapons.


http://www.rambles.net/seale_panther.html

He painted a different picture: a handful of armed, black-suited Panthers standing quietly, watching the police at work. Nerves were taut and tempers sometimes flared, Seale said. At times, situations turned violent. But the Black Panthers were not an uneducated gang of thugs, he said.

Most of the original members had college degrees. A former Air Force mechanic, Seale served in the aerospace program and had a job in civil government. "We were a very political party," Seale insisted. "So why did we go to the streets with the guns? To capture the imagination of the people."

Black panthers were then named a threat and targeted and destroyed by elements of government ran by J Edgar Hoover. This is documented in the 1974 Church committee report.

But when black people started carrying weapons you better believe they passed some laws after that real quick.

...

not that it would have mattered. * was a long distance from the first amendment zone.

Of course they didn't carry to * rallies, and of course they wouldn't have been allowed to -- * didn't think the Constitution meant anything.

Nor do these guys care that some of the chief proponents of gun control from the Brady Coalition on down are Republicans. But this isn't about their ignorance.

upside down with water coming out of their noses.

That will show 'em.

statement. The FAZs were in another zip and area code. of course they shouldn't carry to a presidential event. *, Obama or any other prez. Seriously, The St. Patrick's day parade that my tax dollars funded was off limits to anyone who looked 'urban' when * decided he had to walk with Daley in the parade. We went through more security checks than you would at the airport. Metal detectors, purses/bags searched. But let's be honest, these guys wouldn't dream of carrying to a * event ... Yeah these guys are making a statement. It's a very clear one.

Right? I mean, it wasn't really an issue...

It couldn't have been an issue with *. Protesters were stuck far far away in FAZs.

They are dog whistling for violence against the president. It couldn't be more obvious.

And we can't accept this passive aggressive bullshit. Because that's how the Republicans and their nutwing base make inroads on our civil society.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

:rofl:

Fuck you. Where you breathe......

The mistrust is there because of what we've done in the past.

for smearing our party and you do, too, for forwarding the same.

of anybody. They are doing it as a threat to this President, there is no way on earth this would have happened with Bush, these guys would be in Gitmo as enemy combatants. The right wing is starting this to intimidate and what is going to happen there will dozens showing up at Presidential events. How are they going to protect the President with 30 or 40 nuts with guns in the event. The SS let JFK be shot and it is going to happen again.

If we let this go, we deserve whatever happens and it will be on our heads.

for the record the one that concerns me is not the idiot who is open carrying (and has a sniper or two tracking him... not shitting you), but the one with the Obama T-Shirt doing recon... or worst, concealed weapon ready to do the deed.

That is the one that worries me.

These loons will get far angrier when nobody pays attention and their effort to distract and conflate are deflated by ignoring them, except for law enforcement who should have people assigned to them...

Oh and to those who don't get it, trust me, the security is getting tighter and the dynamic analysis is getting even more fun. Suffice to say, if any of these guys manages to clear leather before a sniper gets him... I'll be surprised.

and they are openly letting us know. This is going to build steam and when you have 20 jackasses with guns how will the SS protect the President. They couldn't protect JFK,RFK or RR and if someone wants to get this one the opportunity is being set up.

and your point?

As to how they will protect the president in that environment, don't be surprised if plans change in the middle of an event.

I have worked side by side VIP protection teams, including purely by accident, the SS.

And I will leave it at that.

Suffice to say I have a clue of how this is done. And it goes beyond a few guys, even 20, sporting guns openly.

Just one final question you think this is a revelation, that he is a target? All Presidents in the 20th century, and 21st century have been targets to one extent or another. He just happens to be a harder target to protect. But you do remember the grenade dud in Georgia (not in the US) during the Bush administration, don't you?

over Bush I heard. If you have enough people willing to make an attempt there is nothing you can do to prevent it, somebody will get lucky. How many people carried a gun in a Bush event? Zero that's how many it wouldn't have been tolerated, they would be in Gitmo today. We had a person evicted from a Bush appearance here for wearing a Kerry T-shirt a few years ago. Any protesters were kept behind fence a couple blocks away. You have a lot more confidence in the SS than I do. If they are so efficient what about RFK, JFK and RWR they weren't very effective there.

except Hawaii bra....

Oh yes, those free speech zones, well away from any where where either Bush or the cameras could see them.

Free clue... death threats tend to go up when ANY democrat is in the WH...

For some reason that pattern is true, it's true.

The militias also tend to get louder.

As I said, I trust the SS will do their job.

As to death threats being up... again the surprise here is? For god sakes he is a dem... and he is black... what did you expect? Roses from the RIGHT WING?

Some of us PREDICTED this the moment he started his run for the Presidency...

And I will make another prediction. The reports on the Southern Poverty Law Center on the rise of the Militias, though they have pretty good intel, are not even close to the reality. Yes, it is far worst, than even they have been able to find.

and that image played over and over and over again by the media.

of the whiny excuses that "nobody has broken any laws," and "it's my Constitutional right," followed closely with "a right not exercised, is a right lost."

I have many rights that I neither exercise on a daily fucking basis, nor do I need to. Open-carry idiots sound exactly like the religious-right, and their "right" to get in my fucking face about being "born again," and to exercise their "right" to legislate my private sexual morality. I also have the right to not be forced to testify against myself, but I don't go around with a fucking sign on my back bragging about it. The same thing goes for ALL of our rights: they are there when needed, and NOT for the purpose of pissing off other people just because you can.

Absolutely nothing is more ob-fucking-noxious than some dude showing up in a crowded public venue with a fucking pistol strapped on, just to prove that he can. YES, the 2nd Amendment says that you can have your fucking gun, but why do you need to rub my nose in your fucking pathetic insecurity? Even in the old "wild west," most civilized towns and cities made people check their fucking guns in with the sheriff when they rode into town.

Even in the old "wild west," most civilized towns and cities made people check their fucking guns in with the sheriff when they rode into town.

I love this article:
http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2007/04/wild-west-era-had-stricter-gun-control.html

Gun control was heavily practiced in the American west before it formed into states, and it seems to have been marginally more effective than our current gun control is at preventing gun violence.

to the story that the NRA doesn't want the American public to know. The USA, since its inception, has never been a "gun loving" society. Like all tools, guns have their place and serve a particular function.

People with rifles/rifles with scopes in the surrounding public space should be viewed as a threat rather than someone trying "get a rise" out of people. Sounds like you might agree with that.

out of the Secret Service, too. Maybe a confrontation so they can say Obama took their guns away ..so they could be sniveling martyrs.

who don't see their viewpoint that Obama is a socialist/marxist/nazi, Christian Muslim born in another country with some alien conspiracy to lock them up in concentration camps. They've been ginned up big time to think that this country is in danger and they are coming "locked and loaded" just like Michele Bachman has told them to do to make sure that terrorist that Sarah Palin warned them about doesn't get out of hand. Didn't you get the memo? They've come armed to make sure that the Liberals attending these events know that they are not going to allow them to take their American down the path of socialism without a fight.

Why are you even bothering to separate the rhetoric that they are spouting and signs they are carrying at these rallies from their actions? You can make all of the apologies and excuses for them that you want, but intimidation and a show of force is what this is about. Some of us, who have been around these people, know that they don't have that complex of a thought process.

They're jack asses, not some big defenders of the 2nd amendment trying to get the naive left to over-react. Occam razor.


Edit to add: I think the guy with the assault rifle standing with the Pro-Reform group is sending a message back saying "Yeah, well we've got guns too assholes. Big guns."

This is all not leading to a good place. Heated emotions, paranoia and guns in large hysterical counter groups. Lovely.

That's why I've resisted commenting on any of the posts commenting on the idiots, other than to call them dickless.