This Modern World - What if Democrats behaved more like Republicans? - By Tom Tomorrow

:banghead:

Powder Dry and all that.

laying down and dying. DISGUSTING!

Maybe they're just saying this to calm down the idiots until the end of August. :)

Makes one see how pitifully weak our so-called leaders are.


Cher

it's not TELLING THE TRUTH where the Repukes TELL LIES.

of Republicans combined with the ethical vision of Green Party and our own activist base of lefty liberals. In other words, it would be nice if the Democratic party had the spirit it used to occasionally show glimpses of at various times in the past.

It's a damned shame that this comic strip is so accurate. Instead of uniting and pushing through a real program to help the people of America, despite the bullying objections of Corporate-owned republicans, our politicians are instead fracturing behind half a dozen different strategies which range from joining the corrupt republicans at corporate mouth-pieces, to being too faint-hearted to do damned near anything, to being out of touch with reality entirely.

Why do you give Republicans so much credit, as if they had ANY integrity at this point? :wow:

and enforce party unity. That doesn't have to mean lying. We have plenty of lying politicians now, going all the way up to the white house, and clearly that isn't helping us any.

I give Republicans credit for being able to get stuff done, for being able to organize their members and work as a team. Anyone can see that they were good at that. Their goals may be evil, but you can't fault them for their results-oriented work ethic.

If we could have a results-oriented work ethic in our party too, but with goals that benefit our constituents and our nation, maybe our party could actually accomplish something more than just photo ops.

Whatever your point may be, please don't compare lockstep lying and predatory propaganda with ANYTHING admirable and use as examples of what Dems need to do.

Thank you.

rather than splintering into dozens of competing proposals is what gets the Republicans results. Yes, "Don't use propaganda." We got the first time you said it. Nobody is disagreeing with you.

If you can't even admit that they have discipline, and that we need it, they you're just practicing semantic masturbation about party purity.

I'm not saying that we need to borrow their Rovian tactics, just that we shouldn't be tolerating things like DINOs undermining the party because they got a donation from a lobbyist. At some point being in the party has to mean that you should stand with the party help the party get things done. The Republicans know this, and Democrats obviously don't.

Bully for you. :puke:

You were the one being insulting.

Come in and participate in a discussion rather than just storming in yelling at people and you get better results. :eyes:

and will no doubt continue to, esp. as bad as the communication craziness has gotten, THANKS to all their "courage" and "discipline."

It's offensive.

Your blase putdowns are not impressive. Maybe act like you really do get it.

Just because you think it is outrageous to recognize that the republicans managed to do anything doesn't make that so. They were very good at doing things. They just happened to be very good at doing bad things. But that doesn't mean there is nothing there to see about being organized and expecting party loyalty.

I think your demand to demonize everything about republicans, and your expectation that you can prohibit people from talking about them, is creepy and offensive.

You've been getting very arrogant and authoritarian recently, telling people what they MUST believe. Get over it.

Fuck your personal attacks.


"And it is OUTRAGEOUS to credit the Republicans as you did and will no doubt continue to, esp. as bad as the communication craziness has gotten, THANKS to all their "courage" and "discipline." It's offensive."

Rather than being so fucking smug about these bastards that have been brainwashing the public for 30 years and doing so much damage, the very least you could do, if you "get" anything, is acknowledge that; and act like you comprehend the outrage over praising their tactics at this time, when their programmed and orchestrated insanity has reached a level of violence and danger, even to our President.

the mainstream Democrats, led by the DLC, have let them get away with it. I have been watching the Democrats wimp out time after time since 1981.

The ONLY time the Dems didn't wimp out was when the Republicanites threatened to privatize Social Security. That was the only time all the Dems in the House and Senate stood together and said NO!

And guess what? The Republicanites backed down.

One united stand in 28 years.

But "business as usual" is a goodly chunk of the Democrats in Washington consistently voting with the Republicans.

The Republicans unite in their craziness and do not back down.

If the Democrats were that united and that persistent and had some PR smarts, this would be a very different country today.

Great points.

"If the Democrats were that united and that persistent and had some PR smarts, this would be a very different country today."

With that 3 decade perspective of how it's played out, if the solidarity were to translate to Dems now, the question would be who determines what "the party" says?

ThomVW has big assumption going on here about who's who:

"I'm not saying that we need to borrow their Rovian tactics, just that we shouldn't be tolerating things like DINOs undermining the party because they got a donation from a lobbyist."

:eyes: Okay. Um, is it one or a couple or a handful or just about all of 'em?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6337272

Go tell him he's being insulting. :eyes:

You said, "It would be really nice if Democrats had the courage and discipline of Republicans"







Not "the same thing" at all.



“Why is this so hard? Why can’t you guys just stay on message? Remember the Bush team? Little bit of discipline, little bit of repetition. They sold us a WAR nobody wanted and nobody needed.” 

Stewart then played a series of clips featuring former President George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney speaking about weapons of mass destruction in the lead-up to the Iraq war. 



“Salesmanship!,” Stewart said, after the clip. “Those guys could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. The Democrats, I don’t even think could sell Eskimos BEEP they need"

If I had used the term Salesmanship, and he had used the term courage you would still be attacking me and defending Jon Stewart right now. You're just going nuts about attacking me for some reason.

Salesmanship is even more inherently dishonest. It implies being dishonest. Having the courage to stay on message doesn't imply being dishonest if your message as a Democrat is honest.

Usually I like talking with you, but for some reason you really just want to attack me over and over and over in this discussion. Fuck off.

You first.

What would be SO difficult about simply acknowledging how that appears, as you wrote it, "praising their tactics at this time, when their programmed and orchestrated insanity has reached a level of violence and danger, even to our President"?

You have a point worth discussing and an inability to consider another way to phrase it that isn't praising Republicans. You're trying to translate their communications strategies to Democrats, so using "courage" seems apt, to you, and outrageous to others. "Salesmanship is even more inherently dishonest. It implies being dishonest." That's right. That's what the Republicans for three decades and the Bush team, did.

Salesmanship is what you did repeatedly in this exchange, to sell your point and stubbornly insist it was good stuff despite customers warning you there is poo poo on your display.

The public discourse is at an almost worthless state, local/community media is dying, SwiftHaters are invading public events on healthcare (thank to the "Courage and Discipline" of Repukes), the president's life has been threatened, men at presidential rallies are wearing guns (the Republicans would have had the "Courage and Discipline" to deal with them -- if they were Democrats -- in an effective way), Comedy Central is needed for many folks to sort out all the grand GOP tradition of institutionalized mindfucking and you don't want to be gracious enough to acknowledge that your words are questionable, outrageous even, praising the "courage" of the propaganda war that brought us to this point.

"And it is OUTRAGEOUS to credit the Republicans as you did and will no doubt continue to, esp. as bad as the communication craziness has gotten, THANKS to all their "courage" and "discipline." "

More salesmanship, you have to change the subject:

"Just because you think it is outrageous to recognize that the republicans managed to do anything doesn't make that so."

That's not what I think OR what I wrote.

"Courage and discipline to be lying, hypocritical homicidal slimeballs? No thanks Why do you give Republicans so much credit, as if they had ANY integrity at this point?"

Courage and discipline implies integrity. They have none. More salesmanship, you change the subject again:

"I got your point the first time. You were the one being insulting. Come in and participate in a discussion rather than just storming in yelling at people and you get better results."

My post was not "being insulting" or "storming in yelling at people." Really remarkable how you think we should accept short-sighted praise of Repuke tactics that have been so toxic in their "success."


"Courage and discipline to stay on message, negotiate from strength and enforce party unity. That doesn't have to mean lying."

No, it doesn't. For Republicans it does. It has. For a very long time.


"Their goals may be evil, but you can't fault them for their results-oriented work ethic."

Yes, I can, because they lie and because of all the damage they have done, including to basic communication skills. The Big Lie and "their results-oriented work ethic" have been the same machine for decades.


"If we could have a results-oriented work ethic in our party too, but with goals that benefit our constituents and our nation, maybe our party could actually accomplish something more than just photo ops."

That's the point you're trying to make and it's a good one. Do you really need to praise Republicans for having "courage" in order to do that? It's chickenshit to lie and it takes no courage to be a Dittohead.


"If you can't even admit that they have discipline, and that we need it, they you're just practicing semantic masturbation about party purity."

I didn't say they don't have lockstep "discipline," I said they have no integrity and questioned your used of "courage".

"Semantic masturbation"? "Party purity"? So yes, you made your "Fuck Off" message quite clear the first time.

actually takes a lot of discipline.
It's a "use your powers for good" or "use your powers for evil" analogy.

:hi: Rhetorical questions, don't bother, that was a nice try, though!! :think: :spray:

My point was that your bone of contention seemed to be with the word "courage". Would you have disapproved if he had used "fortitude" or "backbone" instead? Are you really that offended by the choice of one word over another?


BTW, you can relieve yourself of snarky highbrowness or continue to be an ass... your choice really.

your projections. Okay, have a wonderful evening.

They are my impressions. And i will have a good evening, thank you.

:)

I spoiled your game of oneupsmanship. :hi: Not my thing.

wasn't aware of that, so no need to apologize.

See?

There's plenty here who like to play it, you'll find them..............................

Where?

:)

those who take your "higher road" would prefer to lose the battle for real health care rather than fight using all available weapons and possibly win.

My preference would be to win the war first, then clean up the process.

Results DO count. Especially in something as vital as health care.

would not be.

Your interpretation of this seems to be either/or and I don't see it that way.

How hard is it to not grant admiration or attributes they don't deserve to Repuke slimeballs, while acknowledging that solidarity in message and delivery can be successful?

If Dems try to translate that into having their own Frank Luntz and the bogus Bushco lockstep sloganeering that the Stewart clip showed, no thank you.

That's not even the point here. The point is why praise Republicans? Why ADMIRE Republicans? Their tactics and their vile purposes are one and the same. If something is to be learned and borrowed from the "successes" of those tactics, some discretion -- and separation from their sliminess -- is required.

:thumbsup:

... is far and away the best political cartoonist of our times. Every week he nails it and nails it good.

He rawks.

:applause:

:dem:

-Laelth

but it's so damned truthful!

:kick:

:shrug:

List of things these same people have thought were socialist over the years:

Flouridated water
The US State Department
Hollywood
Integration
Civil Rights
The Metric System
Medicare

Anybody else have any others?

For them, this is their last tactic when they have nothing, but it has worked as often as not. Universal health care is not socialism!

Acting wimpy or acting like a dictator, as if that was the only two options out there.

Amazing.

What utter wimps these people are.

Game very well.
The good cop is who we are suppose to turn to to save us from the bad cop...but what we don't seem to understand is that they are both working for the same results and for the same people.
The lobbyist know this and could care less how many vote for a bill that they oppose as long as the vote is 51-49 in there favor.

That is funny.

Obama certainly looks after his conservative constituency

It just keeps getting worse. It will be interesting to watch when the first republican who isn't a psychopath runs for office- I bet all these new conservatives he is engaged and preoccupied with are going to leave him standing alone at the alter, alone.

Obama is more and more like the Neville Chamberlain of democrats. Democratic principals are a bit like Czechoslovakia at this point. Watch as the Nazis make their next move and obliterate "bi-partisanship". I won't be pretty. And once again the dems will have given it all away for "health care in our time".

The free market crew who brought us banking meltdown #1, enron, Iraq #2, banking melt down #2, etc, etc, now have their greasy blood stained fingers in our health care.
Rahm Emanuel is giving the core party dems the finger (again). He is gambling that good will from republicans will carry Obama through 2010 mid-terms. It is an outrageous gamble.

Nothing gets done because it is the right thing to do. Everything is a scheme to rip off the public too stressed over jobs and life to offer much resistance.

God help us, because our politicians just can't stop fking us over and over.

in order to win because a large chunk of the populace apparently only responds to fear and negative reinforcement

Harry Reid was a badass.

I may be wrong but I doubt it.

:shrug:

Just sayin.

that would save lives?
After all, Bush sold an unnecessary war that destroyed lives.

Excellent comic, thanks.

OK, so why are they so wimpy? Why do all of the dirty tricks of the Repubs work, and why do Dems cave anytime a position is challenged?

I really think it all comes down to not wanting to offend their corporate masters. They pretend to represent us, and when they can, they do, but mostly they represent big pharma, big health, the military industrial complex, wall street, etc.

The system is rigged, hugely. Any issue that aligns itself with the interests of the powers that be (m-o-n-e-y) automatically has the game rigged in its favor. They own the media, so they decide what the spin is, what reality is. They also own the republican party, and most of the democratic party.

So no, the same games won't work for us that work for them. We'd be laughed off the stage, never even allowed on the stage, arrested, tortured as terrorists, our positions ridiculed as the mistaken views of the pathetically loony and angry left.

Do I excuse Obama for these reasons? Hell no, I think he's one of them, not one of us. You think they'd let one of us in the whitehouse? Not a chance.

Remember how they got Howard Dean out of the presidential race? They took a complete non-issue (his lame rave-it-up attempt at a campaign event) and ridiculed him with it until he had little support left.

If you're a little older, maybe you also remember how they got Jerry Brown out of the presidential race in '92. He was doing quite well, had himself an 800 number that was getting money from small donors, and he actually won several primaries (IIRC) before an unknown named Bill Clinton had won any. He was on his way to the white house, and he was bringing Gore Vidal along for the ride. Then they did a hit-piece on him, I remember it breaking on Koppel's Nightline, but someone else may have done it first, on how he was rumored to have been at a party (or perhaps parties, I forget) where marijuana had been smoked by some of the attendees. That was it, nothing more. They ran this story to death until Brown was toast.

Changing tactics won't get it done. We have to change the game. Which means we have to change where the politician's money comes from, and where the media's money comes from. No easy task, but until it happens, everything is, and will continue to be, entirely unfair, and the actions of this country, both domestic and foreign, will be unjust. The people we think represent us will always appear to be wimpy and ineffective, because they're actually representing other interests.

edited to add the part about Gore Vidal, which was quite the site in '92, him tagging along with Brown everywhere he went