Okay, let me get this straight...we're fighting about WOODSTOCK on DU?

I'm in Crazy Town!

I defy ANY DUer to try to organize a concert such as Woodstock. So many of you kids keep talking about how it meant nothing, it was just a big concert. Yeah, cuz YOU know. YOU went to Bonnaroo or Lollapalooza.

Yeah...YOU went to big corporate ad-fests that charged you $8 for a bottle of water. YOU went through metal detectors and got patted down, then got sent to a big field with corporate-sponsored tents selling you cell phones and sneakers. YOU know better. Not like Woodstock, with half a million people showing up spontaneously and making the best of it, creating a community, no one making any money...yeah...us old folks are the idiots.

We didn't sell out to the corporate whores like you did. We didn't have to have a brand logo on our fucking underwear to be cool. We lived in shit and mud for days and danced to some of the most incredible music of all time. Music your current idols are still covering.

You kids...tell your own kids about the awesome concert you went to where they treated you like a criminal -- AFTER paying $140 for a ticket. Then charged you a week's pay for a t-shirt and a beer. YEAH MAN! You kids RAWK! Woodstock sucked. Free music...free dope...free love...oh, and lots of mud. Wow. These anti-Woodstock threads are fucking priceless.

Now dammit...get off my lawn!

.

Some of it justifiable and others just plain nuts. I think I'll need a few days vacation from DU. This health care debate is expected to last until November? I think I'll have to increase my blood pressure meds. :drink:

:hippie:

the times, the politics ....

I've given up trying. :)

people who didn't live through it think of Woodstock as an isolated event, not seeing it as it was, how the times were, what was going on.

Ah, well, I'm awfully glad I'm this old........................

The controversy IS rather entertaining, though.

Just sayin'.

.

Seriously. Can't we just agree to disagree and let it rest already? Each generation has it's own thing and it really isn't cool to bash what's meaningful to others.

Stay focused.

.

Everyone's on their last nerve, I think. ;-)

Thanks for the big smile!

.

:hippie::smoke::hippie:

:loveya:

:hi:

:applause:

and his message to youth?

Can in, man. "Message to youth." I've read a hundred posts saying "Hey old dudes, Woodstock sucked ass!" from people who weren't even a dribble down their daddy's leg when it happened. What, experience speaks for nothing anymore?

.

You have seen sentiment as crude, meaningless, and hostile as that? Guess I didn't notice.

you saw my post.

What do YOU think?

Those were great days...I'm grateful that I got to experience them. Great Post!:yourock: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

which, of course, hurts. Our society has changed THAT MUCH...you didn't get to see what our society was like before this massive Multinational Corporate Takeover.

So, Youth, if you don't like it, go change it. Stop whining and ACT.

I am extremely grateful that I was lucky enough to experience the '60's and '70's. However, there is a downside to that: Life is pretty sucky now compared to then. Deal.

'nuff said.

there was something "in the air" in general -- not just smoke. That's what's missing in the clinical way that too many who've taken classes about Woodstock/Boomers or are pissed at their parents, tend to express.

That's why I tried to convey a sense of what it felt like (my set list, inviting others to add theirs) in those days, with music so major in our lives, no matter who or where we were:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6323732

I appreciate your kickass OP. On one thread, even when asked directly to think about how different the times (and shows) are in terms of freedom and security now, they mostly drew a blank........... :wow:

i liked to drink,eat,and smoke without the fear of getting a strange disease....give me a good bar,club,or indoor concert hall.

:wtf:

is such a damnation of today's society. We're fucked if we poo poo everything that we didn't see with our own eyes. We might as well be Republicans.

I almost quoted Billy Joel! I'm so sorry...

.

Neil Diamond ...

Jesus Christ, Fanny Brice,
Wolfie Mozart and Humphrey Bogart and
Genghis Khan and
On to H. G. Wells.

Ho Chi Minh, Gunga Din
Henry Luce and John Wilkes Booth
And Alexanders
King and Graham Bell.

Ramar Krishna, Mama Whistler,
Patrice Lumumba and Russ Colombo,
Karl and Chico Marx,
Albert Camus.

E. A. Poe, Henri Rousseau,
Sholom Aleichem and Caryl Chessman,
Alan Freed and
Buster Keaton too

And each one there
Has one thing shared:
They have sweated beneath the same sun,
Looked up in wonder at the same moon,
And wept when it was all done
For bein done too soon,
For bein done too soon.
For bein done.

i am not

fighting

about woodstock. lol lol

i was a little kid. means not to me. thought it was a concert. what is there to fight about

peace, man

It was supposed to be. Y'know, get some bands to play in a big field. But something crazy happened..."Woodstock." Literally, nothing like it since. Nothing even close. Some say that's a good thing. But imagine yourself now, abandoning your Saturn ten miles away and walking to the venue, then crashing the gate 'cuz there was no "gate" left. And imagine no Dasani water booth or Starbucks coffee tent. No Nike pavilion or XBOX demonstration tent or ATMs. Or cell phones to tell your parents or friends where the hell you were. You really cannot even imagine.

.

It was the moment when marketers saw how valuable the youth rock audience was. Kids at a festival are not interested in the "Dasani water booth" or the "starbucks coffee event". Starbucks and Dasani are interested in the kids and their dollars.

Was Woodstock a culturally significant even or not? It's been so easily dismissed as being just another rock concert. It obviously wasn't, but the kids posting on these threads don't even realize the significance. Which, btw, doesn't mean it was GOOD significance.

at their "alternative" fest or clock the high security intrusions as anything odd.

Only 3 or 4 "hidden" swipes this time.

No one alive since 1970 has not "sold out" to corporations.

How's that? :hi:


Those weren't swipes. I never said anyone "sold out." My comment is about perception. Don't treat every DUer as part of your monolithic Boomer punching bag.

marching your petty vendetta around the board, read this -- or at least the second paragraph, don't take too much on at once -- and then either drop the 'tude or point it elsewhere.

"My overgeneralizations: Boomers, ya went ta sleep and LIHOP and have a lot of splaining to do. Gen XYZMMMers get over yer damn selves, yer petty spokesmodels come off TWENTY TIMES more self absorbed than the golden Boomers ever have.

"Disclaimer: I have ALWAYS given a lot of credit to those who grew up and came of age after Reaganism's insanity took hold. It's crazy to have to sort it out. Gawd help the victims of acts like Columbine and the illegal wars, the education system treated like a prison lockdown, the corporatization of media that robbed you of the kind of glorious, mad freedom that Woodstock was.... don't think those older don't give you a break for growing up when propaganda and media control were the top priorities of our "democratic" government.

"So. I saw Jello Biafra and the Guantanamo School of Medicine. It was all ages, it was all kinds, there were punks and hippies and kids and old farts, including those on stage BLOWING THE ROOF OFF THE PLACE. There was incredidble rock n roll and vital lyrics, the new stuff and the old. Anyone who gets a chance has to see them just for the update of "California Uber Alles."

"I propose a musical bridge. I'll go first. This is an attempt to give the Gen XYZMMM folk a sense of what it FELT LIKE to be young in those days, the atmosphere, the messages coming at you from every angle, even the cynical, post Woodstock marketing machine angle and the "star making machinery" that finally devolved to American Idull."

"or at least the second paragraph, don't take too much on at once" - as usual, the dig...

As far as the content goes, it is all disingenuous as you are incapable of masking your contempt for post-boomers. Your olive branch is poison ivy.

:rofl: that really is paranoid. :spray:

That was nice to read that you had those values and experiences linked to the Boomer era values... and that olive branch really was poison ivy, wasn't it. You didn't want to discuss any connection b/w then and now in an open and honest way. You were after street cred. Maybe you are even now, by pretending my words are false. (Why would I bother writing something somewhere else, just so it could be all about fooling YOU? :crazy: ) :rofl:

AWESOME DUDE!! ROCK ON WITH YOUR BAD SELF and your pathetic cliches. Don't ever wonder how much of your 'tude has been preprogrammed for you, by those same media/propaganda forces that took over your country........

would not have followed. I am comfortable with the comments I made in that thread, despite how you may feel.

"AWESOME DUDE!! ROCK ON WITH YOUR BAD SELF and your pathetic cliches. Don't ever wonder how much of your 'tude has been preprogrammed for you, by those same media/propaganda forces that took over your country........"

Nice.

The questions were clues that others in between the two warring factions agree and understand with your feelings about this. You nipped that in the bud.

Asking you those questions in response to your OP in the interest of hearing what you thought about it, is what you consider "tried to contextualize my thread to fit your needs"

You seem to have a remarkably thin skin and are blinded by every single thing as being a perceived insult to you. It's the only thing you refer to or repeat -- it's the only thing you pay attention to.

"don't take too much on at once" -- :evilgrin: need a smilie -- and pray gawd it's the RIGHT smilie -- to hear the humor in that? Okay, I'm sorry.

No humor in "AWESOME DUDE!! ROCK ON WITH YOUR BAD SELF and your pathetic cliches." No, really, good luck with that, the mote in your eye is weighing you DOWN.

So busy being insulted -- every single reply does seem more and more ridiculous and narcissistic and paranoid -- AND FUNNY :spray: listen through your own chatter and just consider:

"Don't ever wonder how much of your 'tude has been preprogrammed for you, by those same media/propaganda forces that took over your country......"

That's not an insult. Not directed at you. That's something that's come out of these recent threads. How much are the generations manipulated to attack and misunderstand each other? Worth considering.

Nothing. It ended and everyone went home. It was an amazing moment in time, fine, but it did not change the world like some like to claim.

What "changes the world?"

MLK?

JFK?

Moon landings?

Suffrage?

Watergate?

Viet Nam?

Iraq?

Can I please see your "Change the World" credentials?

.

And neither do nearly all the people who were at Woodstock. Woodstock did not change the world like some claim.

and those people changed their worlds.

That's how change takes place. Maybe you can't see it, maybe you're too far away, maybe you're too close.

You have to be able to understand what 1969 was like, what life in America had been like for the twenty years leading up to 1969. If you don't have that historical background, I can understand how Woodstock wouldn't seem like much to you.

But, you are here talking about it. Others all over the world have been talking about it these past few days.

And you don't think Woodstock was significant? Forty years on, it's still being talked about.

Try to conceptualize those two decades, what 1969 was like if you were twenty years old then, and maybe Woodstock will seem different to you.

But, yes, it changed many worlds, including mine. And, no, I wasn't there. That's the beauty of the Woodstock Nation - you did not have to be at the event to belong to the Nation...................................

FUCKING ASSASSINATED. JFK, RFK, MLK, the people that we saw every day, day in day out, as our political and cultural leaders were being picked off before our very eyes. It was a totally different world.

.

my best friend from childhood was killed in Vietnam. Our boys (I was a college student) lived in fear of losing their 1-Y deferment.

The Beatles had arrived. The Stones.

Dylan.

We did not want the world the adults had made for us, and we united to tell them that we would do it differently.

We looked different, we acted differently, our music was different, and the way we did things was different.

We stressed cooperation over competition, but that didn't mean we didn't want to win. We just didn't want to win dirty. And we chose our disputes very carefully.

We chose life, not death, when all we saw around us was death.............................................

for some people, no proof is ever possible, even when it's right under their noses..............

When you turn on the radio, it's not some old fart singing a love ballad.
The fifties were Frank Sinatra crooning love tunes.
That changed because of the sixties.

If you have a friend with a piercing and a tattoo, and that person holds down a job, that too is a difference that has come about because of the sixties.
(The fifties had been grey flannel suits, fresh from the cleaners, with the crisp white ironed shirt and the tie. While the women wore dresses. Unless they were out in the yard working, and then they wore "trousers." And no one had piercings or tattoos and the men had such short hair they look like the military groomed them.)

Comfortable clothing has been the fashion ever since. If you notice there is an entire part of a department store devoted to jeans, that is because of the sixties.

When you were growing up, did your parents talk to you about sex? And if they did and were comfortable about it, that is in part because of the sixties.
IF you or a friend lived with someone who was the sexual and romantic partner,
and this was done without benefit of a marriage license, that too is in part because of the sixties.

Did you attend an integrated school system? that is in part due to the sixties.

Are your female friends just as likely as male friends to have a career in sales, or as a construction workers, or as an eutive? To be a science researcher or lawyer? (OF COURSE THE CURRENT DEPRESSION IS DEPRIVING EVERYONE OF JOBS, BUT BEFORE the Depression OF 2008, DID YOU NOTICE THAT WOMEN WERE N0T JUST WIVES, MOM, TEACHERS AND NURSES? But had other career opportunities available.)

I wish we could have changed more. The local schools still hold bake sales, while Congress appropriates a huge portion of the budget for warfare items. We are waging three wars currently: Iraq, Afghanistan and Columbia. Mentioning Columbia, it occurs to me - I am sure that every one at Woodstock thought that within fifteen or twenty or maybe thirty years, drugs would be legalized. And now it has been forty years, and we are lucky if there is medical marijuana in our hometowns, available without penalty.

I regret that a lot of the bad remains. But when you look at what the upper one percent did to our leaders, left them bleeding in our streets and in their counter culture apartments, maybe you can cut us some slack.

Woodstock is a fictional character in Charles M. Schulz's comic strip Peanuts. Snoopy began befriending birds in the early 1960s, when they started using his doghouse for various purposes: a rest stop during migrations, a nesting site, or a place to play cards. None of these birds were ever given names, or even used speech balloons, they simply looked at Snoopy and he understood them. The first bird that bore a prototypical resemblance to Woodstock visited Snoopy in 1967, and this is generally considered his debut, though Schulz didn't give him a name and establish him as a full-fledged character until June 22, 1970. Schulz acknowledged in several print and TV interviews in the mid-1970s that he took Woodstock's name from the rock festival.

Snoopy and Woodstock met when a mother bird built a nest on Snoopy's stomach. There were two birds in it, and the mom never came back. Snoopy, one day, got fed up with the two birds, and threw them into the world. Snoopy's first thought was that he was glad to be unburdened of the responsibility, yet later he appears to soften, thinking "here comes Woodstock, flying in his usual topsy-turvy way".

Woodstock quickly became Snoopy's best friend. The only non-avian character who can understand Woodstock's language is Snoopy. This is because his speech is rendered entirely in "chicken scratch" marks; Snoopy usually ends up translating them for the benefit of the reader.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_(Peanuts)


robdogbucky

sit around en masse and smoke dope? No. Think all the new law and order stuff of Nixon's was soley due to civil rights? Hardly.

The so called "woodstock" generation did change the world. Some for the better, some for the worse. Just because you didn't hear that on the nightly news, read it online or read it on twitter does not mean your contention is true. We lived it and we all knew about it and its repercussions without email, facebook or a hundred other ways in which to communicate today that we did not have then.

How do I know this? Well it surely has not been because of the textbooks in school. We listened to our siblings, we watched our brother and sisters fight with our parents, the news broadcast those bodies coming home and we saw them all. The napalm in Nam', the vets on the streets and the Newsmen in VietNam brought it all to us.

The music was great. Good. The sex was probably pretty good too. But what really mattered is that the Woodstock event drew a line in the sand among anyone under the age of 25. So did the the 4 kids who were shot at a college for nothing, absolutely nothing. Whether you fought in VietNam or protested on the streets about the draft or sat in the mud, the nation's leaders had declared war on us. We were the enemy, not the gooks in Nam.

For the youth or young men and women of today...you are the new enemy and I hazard a guess that most of you don't even recognize it. A generation didn't do that to you, your nation's leaders have and are doing it to you.

Forget about how we changed the world...how are you going to change the world? Where's your starting line children? Better find one, you're going to need it. We need you and you need us. Nothing else matters.

I have three kids in their 20s, and all are great young adults. I tell them that I wish they had gotten to experience real freedom, the kind we saw in that era. It was an era when people stood up en masse to police excess, and demanded that it stop. It was an era when kids could have a party, smoke some weed, and not get busted or abused for it. A time when prisons were not full of drug offenders, when we didn't have a War on Drugs, when the country really was more progressive.

I think most boomers do lament that the rightwing stole it all back in the Reagan years, and then did it all again, but worse, in the George Bush years.

These young people who act as if WE, the boomers who fought for all manner of social justice, simply gave up or went over to the other side. We didn't. We got beaten back, just as these young folks who lived through the George Bush Reign of Terror got beaten back.

Blaming the enlightened for not making changes permanent is the kind of petulant, childish nonsense that plays into the hands of the right. If they can get the youth to buy into the meme that "those damn worthless 60s hippies," they've succeeded again in driving wedges that are based upon the worst of human emotions.

All these crybabies whining about the hippies and the Woodstock generation sound like children who remain unhappy that mommy and daddy expect them to carry some of their own load. I'm very doubtful of the bona fides of a number of them. How can one be a liberal and think like that? If one is repeating the themes of Rush, and Bill O, and Beck, they can't be presumed to act in good faith.

It's a pretty good sized one, 15,000 students. He's late 20s and comes over one night a week to hang out and visit. He usually brings students' papers with him to review and grade. He's an excellent writer, of course. The writings of his students in college, ages 18-24, are simply appalling. He tells me of how hard it is to make up the lack of learning they had in schools, through high school, and shows me examples of the problem. Some of these students are second and third year college students, too.

He says the impact of texting has made its bastardized language the only one some young people really understand.

at the elementary level. The kids have learned to hate writing and it shows. Take notes in HS? Forget it. If they were asked to text it they probably would but otherwise none of them have the patience for writing and they're required to do so little of it. The teaching of writing, the product and revisions at any age take more time than most teachers have to give. Testing you know, can't have those pesky teachers being unaccountable.

Not even poetry gets much and kids like to write poems.

that's what happened. We marched in civil rights demonstrations and women's rights demonstrations, ended the Viet Nam war, got rid of Nixon, and had our heads busted in by cops and shot on our own soil by the national guard. Boomers were at Wounded Knee and we built the Alaska Pipeline, brought computers to your desktop and invented the internet. We gave youth a strong voice and commanded our say in things. And we're still doing it today. If you really want health care, put on a black armband and stand up to those robocops ... I dare you! Dana ; )

i am friggin 47. not 20.

see
see

here i am arguing adn what

i said i wasnt. lol

I turned 50 in April...time to call in some chits.

.

you kids just wait......remember this thread when you are old and the younger kids during your older years are saying your generation's music etc sucks. Just wait.....its a coming

:evilgrin:

dg

:spray:

.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LOL! :D

I was 3 years old in '69, but I still understand. Woodstock was a once-in-a-lifetime crystallized moment in time, when everything came together just right; it's remembered so well because it was the synthesis of everything else that was going on at the time. Or maybe it's better described as the distillation of the culture, captured in three days in its purest, best form.

Like Beatlemania, no matter how hard people try to recapture the "lightning in a bottle" (to dredge up an overused phrase), it ain't gonna happen. Because events like that only occur when the stars align juuuuust right.

Me, I'm sorry to have missed it. (Then again, I've always wished I had been born sooner--I remember asking my mom to buy me peasant blouses and bell bottoms in kindergarten--back when little kids did NOT have haute couture or even stuff that imitated grownups' clothes.)

Treasure the memory, Atman. And don't mind the bollocks. :hi:

I recall the coverage and how biased it was. They covered the disaster angle as if the hippies had finally really f$&ked up. The mainstream media was not unlike what we have today.

It wasn't until we started getting first and second hand accounts from older kids that we understood what had actually happened. I have to say though, it feels to me like the idealism and promise of that time has been lost, perhaps forever. In the end, the corporate overlords won by adopting the symbolism and culture and then redirecting it away from idealism and towards hedonism.

My mom called the other day and for some reason she mentioned Woodstock. She's famous in our family for not letting my brother, who was 18 at the time, go with his friends--he had a JOB as a bag boy at the local market, and dammit he was NOT allowed to take that day off to go to some crazy hippie concert! He begged his friends to wait till his shift ended, but they left without him. He never forgave her for that--and for throwing away his Mickey Mantle baseball card. But I digress.

Anyway, her comment the other day was "People DIED there!" Uh, yeah, and people were born there. With half a million people in one place, that's gonna happen. What was the comment? "We got us a fucking city, man!"

I find it telling that out of the entire retrospective she watched, they managed to play up the three deaths enough that that's what she fixated on and remembered nothing else. And no, my mother is not feeble-minded in the least. She's sharp as a tack, smarter than your average granny, and doesn't take shit from anybody--it's saying something if corporate news can influence her to that extent.

I recall the three deaths at the time and the media coverage that got. Now that I'm older I realize that it was media hype.

Woodstock is an interesting marking point. I'm sure my parents bought the "but people died there" line at the time too but to their credit they did see the movie later. In some ways I think my parents were the cutting edge of the cultural change. My parents were anti-racists in the South though it wasn't until Kent State in 1970 that my dad finally turned against the war (I suspect my mom had turned against it well before then but she wouldn't disagree openly with dad).

<snip>

HISTORY OF THE MOVEMENT

There are moments in time when a word or thought has such power that it changes history; a generation so involved in the moment it becomes unstoppable and a spiritual awakening so profound that its very conception shatters perceptions, halts the world and makes people from all nations take notice.

It began with a simple four-letter word: LOVE! In the 1960’s, this word became synonymous with a generation and a city called San Francisco. It was a concept, a belief deep in the hearts of all who were there (and those who wished they were). It began with Ken Keasey, the Merry Pranksters, and their bus “Further,” Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, Lawrence Ferlinghetti and the Beat Generation.

They gathered in places like North Beach, Haight Ashbury, Palo Alto, Berkeley, Seattle, Portland, New York, and LA. These pockets of anti-social, anti-establishment individuals questioned authority and their surroundings while searching for the real meaning of life and the deeper truths.

These small communities of like-minded individuals and “families” of communal creativity focused on poetry, art, folk music, jazz and rock ‘n roll, demanding to be free of societal restrictions, restraints, and hang-ups.

Then one summer – it happened! We Were Everywhere. The pureness of thought exploded exponentially and now there were millions of us. This event, this historical moment, which included most of 1967, became known as the ‘SUMMER OF LOVE”.

During this period, the Peace Movement was born with the “Human Be-In’s” in San Francisco and then the “Love-In’s” in New York. Anti-war demonstrations occurred everywhere and college campuses erupted with thousand of people refusing the draft. This startled the government as presidents were impeached, wars were stopped, and an entire generation stood up and said “Hell No.”

Social change was occurring and continued on multiple levels. Out of this orderly chaos came “The Movements”: The Free Speech Movement, the Free Love Movement, the Farm Workers Movement, the Women’s Movement, the Gay Rights Movement, the Environmental Movement, the Ecology Movement, the Animal Rights Movement, the Sexual Revolution, the Spiritual Movement, the Student Movement, the Civil Rights and the Anti-War Movement.

The message was clear – that the world was uniting behind one principle and one thought – LOVE! And its affirmation of PEACE, COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING. The world was brought forth by musicians such as Peter, Paul and Mary, the Mamas and the Papas, Donovan, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane and then carried on by many of the English musicians like Eric Clapton, the Beatles, and the Rolling Stones.

Because of this free-thinking environment a renaissance of gifted geniuses occurred with the likes of John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and Jim Morrison. New concepts and inventions touched every segment of society. The transistor, the calculator, the computer, and the internet all had their inception in the 1960’s. A whole new creative sector of the economy developed within and took hold to become Silicon Valley.

The international community was in awe of this explosion of creativity. Even athletes showed their solidarity by uniting with the winds of change. All of this started with a simple word, a simple thought – LOVE, and a generation of free thinking people willing to stand up and be counted and their willingness to be different.

Woodstock was not just an event, a happening or a concert with 400,000 people; it was a pivotal moment of realization for an entire generation. It marked an epiphany for the entire country. Woodstock was a statement to the world – “humanity had evolved” coming together through peace, love spirituality and rock ‘n roll.

An event originally intended for profit became the largest free event in history. The “Hip Movement” had come of age and was recognized by the world. The principles of love swept the country and we had become the ‘WOODSTOCK NATION”.

<snip>

Link: http://420magazine.com/forums/420-calendar-events/97333-west-fest-40th-anniversary-woodstock-san-francisco-sunday-october-25-2009-a.html

:smoke:

It's so hard to express what it was like then for young people who became involved in the movement.

This sentence is perfect:


'These pockets of anti-social, anti-establishment individuals questioned authority and their surroundings while searching for the real meaning of life and the deeper truths.'

I hear you, Atman :thumbsup:

we're trying to explain it to people who are taking shots at us.

If you're going to go after someone, you had best be prepared for that someone to come right back at you.

While we of the Woodstock nation believed in peace and love, we do not take shit from anyone...........................

:shrug:

Who bashed whom, and why do you find it perplexing that someone attacked or insulted would reply in kind?

I would like to clarify this for you, but I need your help..............................

young bashing old, old bashing young, most of it pretty stupid stuff. :shrug:

I'm not surprised that someone who feels that a group they identify with is attacked would then go make blanket statements attacking another group. It happens all the time.

I just think it's weird how much difficulty some people have simply talking about what made Woodstock so great and so special without doing so.

because I've seen people posting some awfully sweet words about what Wooodstock meant to them, and some of them were met by scathing, nasty posts telling them, essentially, to shut up, that Woodstock wasn't so hot, that lots of music since then has been not only better, but superior to what was played back then.

You are framing this in terms of younger folks being bashed by those of us who are old enough to remember, and revel in, Woodstock, but I think you are either selectively remembering, or else you're being quite disingenuous about what has gone on here.

You clearly have missed a lot of OPs and responses that were beautifully reminscent about the time. It's unfortunate that you seem to have seen the nastiness that you are implying was instigated by the old folks.

Got a link to any of what you're talking about?

You clearly have missed a lot of OPs and responses that were beautifully reminscent about the time. It's unfortunate that you seem to have seen the nastiness that you are implying was instigated by the old folks.

No, I haven't missed all those posts. They're great, and I've enjoyed reading some of them that I've seen. I never said or implied there weren't any such posts.

"and some of them were met by scathing, nasty posts telling them, essentially, to shut up,"

I've seen those too. As I said, there is a lot of pretty stupid bashing going on, and I would include posts such as you describe in that.

:hi:

I thought it was informative and playful. Witness the last line.

Maybe I take this stuff less seriously.

Generations always differ - part of the evolutionary imperative, I guess.

:hi:

"Yeah, cuz YOU know. YOU went to Bonnaroo or Lollapalooza.

Yeah...YOU went to big corporate ad-fests that charged you $8 for a bottle of water. YOU went through metal detectors and got patted down, then got sent to a big field with corporate-sponsored tents selling you cell phones and sneakers. YOU know better. ...yeah...us old folks are the idiots.

We didn't sell out to the corporate whores like you did. We didn't have to have a brand logo on our fucking underwear to be cool.

You kids...tell your own kids about the awesome concert you went to where they treated you like a criminal -- AFTER paying $140 for a ticket. Then charged you a week's pay for a t-shirt and a beer. YEAH MAN! You kids RAWK!"


I have not seen more than a few posts about the quality of woodstock as an event. I have seen criticism of the relevance of the event and its legacy. Let's not pretend very many people think woodstock "sucked".

For underlining it.

No one under the age of 50 is ever going to own rock culture and the ability to participate in and steer it the way the over 50 crowd has and does.

We tried it once, and ended up building a rich subculture with alternative (which, at the time, meant "alternative TO rock") music, and the next thing you know, here comes Nirvana (who were a great band, but ended killing what fed their success) Pearl Jam, Metallica, and Stone Temple Pilots to set us back 15 years. Meanwhile, good electronic music is now so deep underground you need a drill to find it, 1% of Amy Winehouse admirers (or detractors for that matter) have any idea who Paul Weller is, and all the great rock-type and roots bands from the era are making childrens' music or Americana.

And now U2 can't clip their nails without getting bashed.

The younger generation gets to own something else, culture-wise: computers and the internet. Understanding SQL and a dynamic language now gives you every bit as much to influence pop culture as knowing all the power chords once did.

Woodstock was wonderful.

Computers and the internet are wonderful.

My wonderful doesn't diminish your wonderful. There's lots of room in this world for wonderful......................

the posts that inspired those responses? Because they sound retaliatory to me, and if that's the case, they're hardly "bashing." Except for the last one, which comes from a marvelous OP from Atman - one whose last line you very conveniently overlooked.

My guess is that the posts to which you're alluding were in response to snarky, unsolicited comments about Woodstock.

The fact is that some young folks needed to come here and post some nasty stuff about those of us who recalled Woodstock fondly, quite out of the blue. I saw those, and your need to accuse the oldsters of being the "bashers" is not valid.

Nice try, but the fact is that there were lots of posts celebrating Woodstock. It's regrettable that you didn't see them, but that doesn't negate their existence.

Sorry, but your stance is not credible.

Over and out......................

There have been very few senseless 'woodstock sucks' posts. The dispute is between those who hold the event in reverence and those who relegate it to lesser status. Communications promptly break down from there.

I saw quite a few "Woodstock sucks" posts. More than quite a few, actually. Some of them downright nasty.

The relevance is Woodstock is that, forty years on, people are still talking about it.

What others think of it is irrelevant.

Woodstock stands................

but we cant discount all the youth, we took the boy about 10 years old to a Stones concert the last time they played at White Sox park in Chicago. We had a couple of older teens sitting next to us.

Those guys would get up and walk down to the railing to smoke the good stuff. I was impressed that they did that because of my son being there.

Although I wanted to tell them that the son would think it was a cigarette and they should stay in their seat and blow the smoke my way. lol


Everyone was so cool, on the way out two guys shook my sons hand and told him to thank your mom and dad because you just witnessed history.

WOODSTOCK!!


Future America will come around they always do.

KNR

:thumbsup:

and the boomers are Rock's greatest generation. I'm not a boomer but anyone should see the obvious.

While some may debate the relevance of woodstock (as opposed to the magnitude of the event itself), it is sheer delight to hear you speaking down to younger people as your parent's generation did to you during your magical time.

Fucking hilarious.

If you can't finally talk down to those damned kids, why live 'til 50?

:hi:

.

Peace, man!

I just sat down to type out a little post-bone rant, throw my own meaningless opinion into the mix. It's not like the subject isn't open for real debate, though. For instance, another poster pointed out that it is/was my generation who started selling all this shit to its own kids. The irony is great...we created in our kids a lust for things, we branded and marketing everything and anything, even water, and now we've all been bled dry trying to pay off the debt we wrung up buying all that shit for our kids.

Over-simplification, of course, but that's kinda the point; all I did was post a little rant. I didn't call a press conference and send a message to the youth of America. I made an observation which I hope everyone reading will consider as part of the whole, compare and contrast my rant to the many other rants on the subject, pro and con. Of course, it Woodstock were as meaningless as some posters want us to believe, it's doubtful the subject would have been the genesis of so many internet posts.

Now seriously...I mean it...get off my damn lawn!

;)

.

Here's to finding a way out of the maze! cheers!

the result is funny to look at: http://www.translationparty.com/#1783460

hey man, if you're diggin it, i'm diggin it.into Japaneseおい男、 digginしている場合は、私はそれをdigginよ。back into EnglishHey man, diggin that is the case, I'm diggin it good.back into Japaneseおい男、 digginそうですが、私は良いdigginよ。back into EnglishHey man, diggin it is, well I'm diggin it.back into Japaneseおい男、 digginは、よく私はそれdigginだと思うんです。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, I often feel I'm diggin it.back into Japaneseおい男、 diggin 、私はよくdiggin私は得意なんです。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, diggin me well I'm good at.back into Japaneseおい男、 diggin 、よく私は私でいいんだdiggin 。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, I'm good I'm good at diggin.back into Japaneseおい男、 diggin 、私digginでいいよいいよ。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, diggin me I should be good.back into Japaneseおい男、 diggin 、いいすべきdiggin私。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, diggin good to me.back into Japaneseおい男、 diggin 、良い私にdiggin 。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, I'm good diggin.back into Japaneseおい男、 diggin 、私は良いdiggin 。back into EnglishHey man, diggin, I'm good diggin.Equilibrium found!

Your generation are the one who started selling us the $140 concert tickets. Your generation was the generation that started selling us the branded logos.

You can't get angry at us that when your generation took charge they started selling us concerts and music that way.

I guess you can call us stupid for buying it since you did it for free.

I'm pretty embarrassed about a lot of things my generation has done. What is YOUR generation doing? How is that anti-war march going? When are you gettin' on the bus to DC to demand health care reform? Yeah...teach me how to be pure, please!

.

The protest didn't work. In 1968, Nixon was elected. In 1972 he was re-elected. When the powers that be want a war, they get a war.


I don't know what my generation is doing but I'm helping two senior citizens organize an event for their senior center to tell the truth about Healthcare reform, I'm volunteering for progressive democratic candidates, and I'm starting a progressive blog (kind of like a local huffington post) in my area to help progressive groups in my area.

What the rest of my generation is doing is of little concern to me. I can't control them. Just like you couldn't control the others in your generation.

My generation (I'm 51 y.o.) stole the fun and sold-out to corporate America.

I remember when a concert ticket was a reasonable price and nobody over the age of 30 attending concerts during the 70s.

As much as I loved seeing The Stones and AC/DC, I can't relate to my fellow fossil seniors who are willing to dole out hundred of dollars to sit in folding chairs.

The corporatization of music has ruined truly creative bands and pushed mediocrity to the forefront.

Yes, please accept my apology for my generation SELLING-OUT for the big pay check and the motto "Greed is GOOD." :puke:

The generation that watched so many of their brothers die in combat sold out their own children in Vietnam.

for the PEOPLE. God knows that the large corporations have the $$$ but we have The People. When they are educated and motivated, we can force our gutless democratic blue-dogs to do their damn jobs and support their working class constituents.

it's a betrayal I don't think I'll ever get over. At least our children can make a choice about whether to be shipped to war. Dana ; )

I'm on board! +Rec :headbang:

It's not that we're fighting over Woodstock. However, like the death on Anna Nicole Smith and Michael Jackson, after a few thousand threads, most of us real world type folks begin to "not give a shit."

It's annoying to watch our fellow learned members on DU OBSESS on B.S. that was nothing more than a four day concerts with some admittedly AWESOME BANDS.

Enough! :shrug:

Unless you are referring to "Get off my lawn," which has been around since before even I was a kid.

.

nothing more than a cool concert "love-in."

We could have done so much more: 1) Keeping our unions strong; 2) not allowing our representatives to send all our working and middle class manufacturing jobs overseas; 3) DEMANDING that it's Congress who must "declare war."

It started with the "Reagan Democrats."

Don't blame the right-wingers because far too many of us on the left have become gutless wonders. We ALLOWED the right to "define us" because we choose INTELLECT above all else - heaven forbid we upset anyone. :(

Guess what? Humans are an imperfect species and we need to use EMOTION and IMAGERY for Democratic purposes in order to counter the right wing's use of FEAR and HATRED of all that is LIBERAL and HIPPIE-LIKE.

We, the Baby Boomer Generation, must get motivated beyond our intellects and REACH the average struggling American Citizen. That won't happen with all this lame nostalgia about Hippies and Woodstock ...

It will happen by organizing and motivating our fellow Americans, young and old.

I'm surprised no one has taken umbrage with that statement. Yet.

I happen to agree. Not exactly sure what you mean by "it"... but for me, it means the hard turn to the right this country has taken.

So they take a swipe at the Woodstock generation.

They probably need to drop some acid. :smoke: :hippie:

but your generation waves woodstock in our face like your parents wave WW2.

I'm sure it was a great concert and I'm happy the people that went enjoyed themselves.

and I don't think there is much you could teach me about dropping acid. The woodstock moment becomes less relevant and more nostalgia as we move further down the consumerist rabbit-hole.

PETA, Olive Garden, progressives, whatever.

:eyes:

If that's intellectual honesty, I want none of it. ;)

Rampant, over-the-top consumerism didn't appear out of thin air when Generation X entered the world. Their parents, the Boomers, created a consumer-driven culture by rising to the middle class and buying and buying and buying. They then passed these values down to their children by buying and buying and buying for them.

Now we have a culture that does nothing but consume whatever is being proffered.

It's a shared responsibility spanning every generation in our country at this point, and it requires shared solutions.

However, all this "My generation was amazing, and yours is crap" is just another way to sidestep our own places in the world, what we've done and have not done, and the unpleasant truths we don't want to confront about what we have yet to do.

It was just a few months later. It was actually free, as opposed to the gate crashing that made Woodstock become free.

I submit that Altamont is much more representative of the times.

For one, Woodstock captured a moment in time, things changed quickly afterward, and even three months later, the same peace feeling that brought this festival together had dissipated. And, it was a bad decision to have the Hell's Angels run security at Altamont.

Another is that Woodstock was in a hard to get to farmer's field in upstate NY. It took a journey to get there. People left their cars 5 or 10 miles away, many along the NYS thruway, shut it down as I recall. In that journey, things changed, transformed, and the mud and rain brought people together, sharing their tents, their food, the Hog Farm and other groups fed hundreds of thousands for free. It really was unique. Maybe you had to be their to really understand, but some get it and never were.

And the music wasn't bad either. ;)

growing up all I heard was "we have to make due", "we can't afford that" "why waste good money on something like that",because our parents lived through the depression, where you didn't spend money on anything you didn't need to keep from dying. I decided I wanted better or more for my kids I bought them what I thought they wanted not just needed to get by. So yes it is/was our fault for wanting better/more for our kids. They just learned to take and want more I guess.

Your generation did a bang up job at accelerating corporate influence and holding on to any position of power with a death grip while potentially being more antagonistic to the younger generations than any previously.

Yeah, my generation (Y) doesn't have the mass movements that your gen did, but you happened to make the world a far more authoritarian place after you sold out and abandoned the peace and love for money and power. So I really can't blame the X and Y gen for being so complacent, the game was rigged by you guys when we started.

were you ever beaten because you dare wear something deemed inappropriate by your elders. Were you ever taken down and had your head shaved because your hair was too long. Were you ever forced into marriage or give up a baby because you would "shame" the family. Were you ever told you couldn't be friends with the coloreds. Were you ever shot at for peaceful demonstrations. Were you ever forced to go to war and watch your friends die because some old fart thought it would be fun.This was all common place for us.
This person has not sold out. I have never in my life voted for a republican or an independent or a 3rd party split the ticket candidate. I still live in a non-materialistic world. I don't have money, I don't have power. Just because the government is corrupt doesn't mean we corrupted it. Look within, the players that are there now have always been there, it's a birth right.They have the money so they will always have the power. We tried, yes we failed. But don't even say we caused it.Complacency gets you no where, it doesn't even get you a seat at the table. You want it? Take a stand and fight, don't wait for someone to had it to you. We tried to fight it, we failed, you just sit back and point fingers.

As bad as the social injustice was in a good deal of the country, the generation that spawned you at least had some economic sense and helped produce the meager amount of social democracy we enjoy today. All I see baby boomers harp on about are the (admittedly egregious) social problems while they gleefully embrace the worst excesses unrestrained capitalism has to offer, then hand it to us and tut tut for our collective lack of action. Well, no shit we are going to live a life of inaction in an environment that has so successfully brushed aside what social problems we have left if an economically oppressive atmosphere. While you baby boomers were free loving it up, you conveniently forget that economic issues are the core of the problem, social problems are a mere accessory to the crime. Maybe if the counter culture didn't effectively alienate the socially conservative mainstream we wouldn't be in this mess right now. What the hell use are measures to build a free society if the people in control have more influence in the future generation than they did in the last? So thanks for that.

And it's all 20/20 armchair sociology, I know, but the sheer arrogance the baby boomers have over their social endeavors is stunning. Is there even a question as to why we inherited the world we did with the attitude of the boomers?

Let's not forget the fact the boomers hold on to whatever power they can get, clinging to positions while the X and Y suffer. And then you criticize us for a lack of initiative and success? Once again, no shit, you are clogging up the works.

X and Y ers can take over and play at being grown up. Well first you have to grow up, playing at it doesn't cut it in the real world. Like I said if you want something fight for it don't expect someone to give it to you. You complained that we "rigged" the system and messed everything up by our inaction, but at the same time your inaction is okay? How does that work? You just want the world to be perfect for you. Guess what IT AIN"T! Grow up earn your own place, it's not going to be handed to you no matter how much you cry about others handing you a mess.

"if the counter culture didn't effectively alienate the socially conservative mainstream we wouldn't be in this mess right now." I really hope you were being sarcastic here.

"What the hell use are measures to build a free society if the people in control have more influence in the future generation than they did in the last?" The ones in control are the moneyed families that buy their government, they are the same ones as always. That is what we were trying to fight but failed. But by all means go ahead and sit back and let it keep on keeping on, because we couldn't fix it, why should you even try, right? If all the people of your generation have the same outlook, I have no compassion for them.

Reading about someone from the whiny, entitlement generation harp on about X and Y whining and having entitlement issues. Really? Take a good look at your generation.

I also never excused my generation's inaction, but nice strawman. If you actually read my post I stated there were reasons why we have inaction, much of which have to do with the machinations of your generation. You DID rig the game, as you greatly outnumber us while being at the right age to exert an even more disproportionate influence and have a rather shitty attitude towards the youth, when you guys did the same or worse. I also said nothing about a perfect world, so nice strawman there as well. You made the world worse than it was before, something not very many generations can lay claim to. Is it my fault as a child of the 80's that I was raised in a corporate cesspool? No, that is yours.

"Grow up, earn your place, blah blah" Ok, right. I'm trying, but the fact you boomers more or less hog up as many positions as possible and have a shitty attitude about it makes short term prospects difficult. Thankfully most of you will be out of the picture in the long term, which is a better deal than what the Xers got. You guys suck, you know that?

1. Hog up a disproportionate amount of the resources while simultaneously shrinking the resource base.
2. Cement yourselves in whatever positions of power, both petty and great, you can get your hands on while having a passive-aggressive, authoritarian attitude about it.
3. Chastise the young generations for not working hard enough or "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps", all the while setting up an environmental condition that thwarts most efforts anyway.
4. Hold yourselves up as the generational bastions of freedom, justice, and humanitarianism.

Seriously, fuck off. You guys are as bad as what you rebelled against. I don't hate your generation though, I just hate the holier than thou, arrogant attitude you guys have towards your so-called accomplishments.

And yeah, you did hyper-focus on the social issues when it was ALWAYS the economy and still IS the economy. We have an African American president and, guess what, our economic position still sucks and will suck in the future.

I'm also well aware we have a moneyed aristocracy in our midst, something which is more true now than ever. I'm also aware it was your generation that SNAFUed change towards that by focusing on social issues, many of which alienated the mainstream, which would have been fixed by an equitable economic system and reform regarding how our nation works. When the hell did we lose the Christians, who were formerly the basis for socialism in America? We should OWN the Jesus issue and anything related to Christianity. Look at the typical Republican or Republican leaning guy and look at what he is concerned about; social wedge issues, economically we should HAVE him. If the left wing of your generation were more concerned with economic issues first and social issues second, we wouldn't be living in a United States that is framed right wing.

lives. Well guess what,we're not dead yet, we're still here and you have to make your own life. If you don't like the way things are, change them (that's what we tried to do). Stop bitching about what we didn't do for you.

See democrats care about social issues because they usually have something to do with helping people, that's the difference between "us" and "you". If we didn't focus on social issues we would be a lot worse off than we are now.

We lost the christians? I don't think so. Any REAL christian would not/could not be a republican. What with their mega churches, televangelists,take the poor peoples last dime type "preachers". That's not christian, what the "hippies" did was more christian.

I'm tired of arguing with someone who does nothing but whine about how bad they have it and make excuses for not doing anything about it. You throw an awful lot of right wing talking points into your little rant there..so on you're cue I'm saying just fuck off. Get a life and stop bitching about what was not handed to you....make you're own way.:nopity:

I'm done have a good life, if you can figure out how to do that for yourself!

From Soviet Russian to Pol Pot was a part of our reality. Racism to the extreme to the fact people could not even vote, and women in the 70's could be committed to asylums just on the word of their husbands..

Where were you when we fought all those battles?

How much blood did you spill for the vote, for the right be a fully recognized person?

You can lay a lot of blame for a lot of things at our doorstep..because there is just so damn many of us, we have been hard on the environment, economy etc.

But you better get your facts straight before you start with where we had to battle out of in a real world that sent out high school seniors to war without question.

That deprived people of even drinking out of the same water fountain.

That had women who could claim full freedom as people as long as they had their husbands permission.

We have terrorism, environmental catastrophe, economic catastrophe, and an era of hidden imperialism and gross inaction.

So shitty geopolitical situation, check.

We still have racism and severe economic issues, so a check on a total lack of even a semblance of an egalitarian society.

I too had to deal with kids straight out of highschool going to war, except they weren't drafted, most of them signed up due to economic issues.

So young kids getting shot up due to a war of convenience, check.

South also still seems pretty racist to me, my last trip to Tennessee was eye opening to be sure.

So fucked up race issue, check.

Wow, looks like your generation created a world just as fucked up as the one you were handed, and then some.

Cut the generational arrogance, you weren't that great.

"Your generation did a bang up job at accelerating corporate influence and holding on to any position of power with a death grip while potentially being more antagonistic to the younger generations than any previously.

Yeah, my generation (Y) doesn't have the mass movements that your gen did, but you happened to make the world a far more authoritarian place after you sold out and abandoned the peace and love for money and power. So I really can't blame the X and Y gen for being so complacent, the game was rigged by you guys when we started."

If you can't handle the heat of a defense, than you are in the wrong game with me. No generation can do everything right or everything wrong.. Each one has its own agenda to deal with.

The game was not "rigged" by us.. You get to step up to the plate with a different set of needs and issues than we had. But guess what.. you are not alone.. we are still here with you..

Whether you like it or not.. we are all in this together pal..

Don't fall for it. Woodstock was cool, okay? Some of us younger people get it. But don't put us down too, we had no control over the corporations controlling all of America either. The top wealthiest people in this country control that and they like the infighting.

But it's very difficult to allow the boomers to chastise us for the world THEY created. That's a bitter pill to swallow.

We are far smaller in # anyway.

Forty years later and Mr. Krabs still won't give Plankton the secret Krabby Patty recipe.

So much for change, Mr. Woodstock. That's not hope I can believe in.

Buncha snot-nosed punks. Go back to listening to your Britney Spears CD's. :hippie:

If all those people that went to woodstock joined the military or got a job I think society would have been a lot better off.

Do you know how many were drafted? How about how many were trashed, burned, prisoners of war, cut up like cardboard or just plain died? Not likely.

As for the jobs dear, at least our generation could still find work, even if they did take a measly three days off for ...uh...fun?

Try taking the sour grapes out of your mouth for a day and see how it feels for a change.

You may have missed Woodstock, but boy you been smoking something if you think people on DU think joining the military is the road to a productive life! HOLY HOGWASH!

:eyes:

It's JEALOUSY! Pure and simple. Jealousy.

Or at least it seems that way when I listen to the tapes...

K&R&:yourock:

When I came here in 2005, this place resonated. It hummed. It vibrated. It was absolutely full of raw energy.

The energy was at that time focused on hatred of a Big Dick, a Little Bush, a hand full of Rummy, and any everything else considered to have come from the other side of the aisle.

Now, we own the White House. We own the House of Representatives. We own the Senate. There is no one to focus our hate on.

So now, we hate each other.

On the national guard rifles.