It's during "fights" like the healthcare debate that the Democratic Party gets branded as weaklings.

Which side looks like the one who will fight till the end to defend their stance?

Which side looks like they know how to work a negotiation?

Which side is in touch with what their base is passionate about?


We worked all throughout the '07 and '08 campaign to get our side into power, and what do they do once they're in? They cower to the minority. It's pathetic. Who's respect do they think they're going to earn this way?

When those precious "undecideds" see these fights take place, like the healthcare debate, which side do they respect more? As much as we want to laugh at the birthers, and teabaggers, they have two things we don't have---passion and organization. They are going to win this war, and what message does that send to the undecideds? It shows them that we are the party that does not know how to win, even with the truth on our side. We are the party that starts out negotiating weakly, before flailing a few times and caving in. How is this going to affect the public's perception of Democrats' ability to protect the country?

We are being branded as weaklings and losers, and this will go a long way in the public's perception of the Democratic brand, and how we will confront our next challenge from our hostile enemies. Obama won the election because he came off as a "stand-up" guy in the face of adversity, which is atypical for a Democrat. Now he's running from the DLC playbook, the one that says that we will win more points with Republicans if we show that we are ashamed of being liberal, at the same time that we ask them to come over to our side. That goes against everything we know about human nature, and once again we are seeing the "bipartisan" approach fail just like everything else Dems did for 8 years, excepting that brief period where Obama campaigned as someone who would stand up and change that paradigm.

Yes we can--unless Republicans don't want us to! Even when they're in the minority!

If you base your vote on which side puts on a better dog-and-pony show and not on the issues that will impact your and your neighbors' lives.

That said, you are right in everything you say.

and I spend way more time than is healthy, trying to figure out how the hell, and why, it has come to this . It really is, as you said, truly pathetic. P.S. bookmarked your OP to share with as many people as I can. I've been saying the exact same things, but not as well and succinctly as you did.

Do you think that the insurance industry hands all that cash over to Obama, Dodd, Baucus for nothing?

:thumbsup:

What group was Obama's largest campaign contributor? The financial industry.
What was the second? Health insurers.

Oh sure "the people" also raised a bunch of money. I bet the financial industry and the health insurers got a good laugh at that one. "Ha, ha, we just suckered more money out of those assholes."

House progressives will not vote for co-ops and the Senate will not pass a Public Option but will pass a bill with co-ops. My prediction is that just enough House Republicans will be allowed to vote for a bill with co-ops to thwart the progressive Dems in the House uprising. The President will sign it. The fix is in.

As much as I agree with you that the Democratic Party does snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, lets keep the focus on the turncoats who aid and abet the insurers and thier wholly owned subsidary - THE GOP.

It's the bluedogs studid!

We need Montana Democrats to make life miserable for Max Baucus, and the other states to do the same to the other bluedogs. We have to make the poltical price for thier corporate whoredom more expensive than the checks they get from thier corporate masters.

Then there is the issue...how do these corporatists get committee chairmanships? Shouldn't they be reserved for real Democrats?

Lets turn anger in to action and not cast aspersions against the entire party.

I'm really wondering who's side the president is on, and if he isn't taking a dive in this fight and trying to make it "look good."

I'm REALLY wondering if it isn't the Democratic Party's m.o. as a whole to take a dive and "make it look good" in order for them to serve the same masters as the Republicans. I didn't want to believe in this worldview before, but now it's hard not to.

I guess Republicans' strategy for serving corporate interests, is to admit it and tell their base that corporate interests share their interests. In our case, our Democratic reps just lie and act like idealists until the first punch is thrown.

You have a lot of ammunition to support your suspicions.

I just figure...if the "sold out" requirement for Senate is x, then the "sold out" requirement for the White House must be x to the power of x.

But lets not forget who has the power here... we do.

Sure its easy enough to say...no we don't. But what is the alternative? Just giving up and accepting what the corporations will give us?

We need to take the party back from the ground up. It's hard work. I don't do enough myself. But we can't just give up.

Lets tar and feather the bluedogs. Obama will probably take note.

Hell the Lieberman Primary sent shockwaves thru the political system.

We need keep up the mantra of "Better Democrats". And we have to explain to our fellow democrats the ones that don't follow politics as closely as we do what it means to be a "Better Democrat".

I have called the White House comment line and let them know exactly what I think about their efforts so far. I don't plan on letting up, and I hope everyone else who's as disappointed as I am joins me, and can encourage us toward other organized efforts as well.

I told her I'm sick of being abused by my private insurer and I want the choice to buy into Medicare and that she should come out publicly --- no public option, no vote.

:toast:

Not strong and firm.

And I say that with every ounce of my heart. Fuck them. If you don't know what you want in a politician, if you're going to be swayed one way or another by a fucking hairstyle, then sit your stupid ass down and masturbate to Baywatch, you fucking idiotic insipid twit.

*Deeeeep breath* Okay. Better. But seriously, that's what the "undecided" is - someone who chooses to remain ignorant but keeps participating anyway. They're basically someone who comes to a Red Sox game with a sign cheering the Chicago Bulls, because, well, they like the Bulls.

The only reason we are being branded as "Weaklings" is because... get this... Our democrats are weak. Aside from a few, they just don't seem to have the gall in them to call the "passionate right" exactly what they are - fanatical fuckwits openly antagonistic to our nation's betterment.

There's this damn notion that if we reach out and try to work with the other side, listen to their concerns, compromise with them, we'll earn their respect and work together to create something lasting and real.

And it's bullshit.

What happens is that we reach out, listen and compromise and we still don't get a single Republican vote on key issues and end up looking wimpy to boot. Frankly, I think that voting in a huge majority says that the American people want the Dems to lead, not the damn Republicans. But instead we get "bipartisanship." Which doesn't work.

It's pretty fucking discouraging.

They respect someone who can stick up for their side with as much conviction as they do. Some of them--probably far more than the amount of "independents" who are watching the debate and thinking, "I like how the Democrats are being vague and weasely about what they want, so they can claim victory even when they backpedal & don't get it. Great strategy!"