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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 04:58 PM
Original message
Tutoring tots? Some kids prep for kindergarten
For two hours a week this summer, Krissy Rubesch has been working with a tutor on reading and math. Summer schooling isn’t unusual for kids who need a jumpstart on academics for fall, but Krissy is only going into kindergarten.

Already a pro at reading phonetic words such as “cat,” she has spent seven weeks learning about the silent “e,” letter combinations such as “sh” and other more advanced reading skills. She’s been working on addition with four-digit numbers and has done some creative writing to improve her penmanship and ability to sound out words.

Krissy, who turned 5 this month, will be among the youngest kids in class, and her mother emphasizes she isn’t trying to create a superstar student. She just wants to make sure her daughter is prepared to keep up with the other children who are learning their words and numbers, too. All of them will be expected to master various academic skills in the upcoming school year, or risk retention.

more . . . http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32404017/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. i thought all that was" time spent" with your youngster for first 5 yrs.
gotta do something fillin up that time. not just sittin there looking at each other. surely
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. We taught our daughter some basic reading and math prior to K.
She just completed her first week at Kindergarten. I'm curious to see how she does as time goes by.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Same here. Our kids went into school able to read Harry Potter. (Although
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 05:28 PM by GreenPartyVoter
they needed help with bigger words in every other sentence and didn't understand half of what they read. :P They finished 3rd & 5th grade this year and are still at the high average/above average level in reading. Ditto with math.)

Editing to add that YoungerGreenKid had tested out at the high school level for vocabulary this year, but that was a different assessment test. When ElderGreenKid was born I plastered his teeny nursery with alphabet & number strips I'd made and the names of the colors right by his changing table. One day he stood up as I was snapping his outfit back together and he pointed to the number strip and then to the word yellow and squeaked, "Two Ls is like eleven?"

I miss them being little like that. *sniffling*
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Would you say the first Harry Potter book is OK to read to a 5-year-old?
We've been reading a lot of Junie B. Jones to her, which are fun but they won't last forever. I've been thinking of launching into something meatier, but I'm not sure what.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Mine were fine with it. They lost interest in the series at about book #4, I think. Right before we
read HP we'd gone through a pile of Roald Dahl, Beverly Cleary, and E.B. White books. Romona was popular with my younger son because he was also at the almost-Kindergarten age at that time & very similar in personality. :) Those authors had a lovely way with words, so I would definitely call them meatier in that sense.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Harry Potter is really aimed at older kids.
I'd recommend some of the "classics" at age 5: The Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, and Peter Pan would all be good choices. Just make sure they're not "abridged" or "adapted"; you'll want every word of the original.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
76. "The Wizard of Oz" is an allegory regarding monetary policy and the gold standard.
And "Alice in Wonderland" is filled with drug imagery and Dodgson wrote the book under the influence of Wormwood and other hallucinogenics. Great books to be sure, but I'm not sure that youngsters were the original target of those books. Both movies were made a good deal more child friendly, though there are still some scary scenes in both and the Queen of Hearts is one of the more sadistic characters in any movie or book I've seen.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. I would say it's a bit too old for a 5 year old
But some kids are voracious readers. My sister was reading Hemmingway when she was 8.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
61. It's hard to find reading material when kids are reading early
they don't want to read baby books anymore, but the subject matter can be too advanced for them while they already have the technical skills.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. agree 100%
our 6 year old can read EXTREMELY well and is bored with the little books geared at her age group. It is very tough finding something that is interesting, a little bit of a challenge and still age appropriate. Harry Potter is still a little much for her...but we are trying!

sP
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #61
71. There's no public library nearby?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. Oh there are
That's not what I meant. What I mean was, if you have a 3 yo reader, the books at his reading level are likely to be written for older kids - that continues to the case for a few years. It can be difficult to match reading level with interests at that point.

Books, we have! And frequent the library, too. But up until a few years ago, finding books that fit "just right" was often a challenge.

And a bummer for him, too, with summer reading challenges, which seem to go on strictly the number of books. So his classmates read little 20 page "chapter books", and more of them, while he was devouring novels - Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, etc.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
60. My younger was definitely reading well before kindergarten
But other than indulging his fascination with letters, he really taught himself - at 3. I spent many years drawing giant chalk letters and words on our driveway, lol. But it was all driven by him. He simply would not be left behind when the other three people in the household were reading!

Ten years earlier, my oldest and other kindergarten kids were not expected to read at all. By the end of that year, most were reading. It seems expectations definitely changed over that decade.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #60
79. Yep, mine were guided by us but a lot of it just came naturally to them. They still love to
learn but in subject areas they like and on their own terms. Naming states and capitals or the countries of Europe is something the love to do. Same with math problems in their head or spelling challenges. And I like to ask them if they have thought any "big thoughts," such as philosophies of life or scientific theories. ElderGreenKid once wrote out a massive string of equations that had something to do with stars, but he was too shy to let me read it. He even typed it up on the computer. I think he might have shown it to his science teacher, though. I'm sure it had gaping holes here and there but the real point is that he was thinking and inspired. :D Lately his interest in is politics. He went to a town meeting recently and told me that he wants to be a Selectman when he grows up. (Used to want to be a lawyer, and before that when he was 3 he talked about going to Mars.)

I think it really helps that we watch "learning shows" around here. I grew up with 4 channels and often the only interesting thing on was "Wild Kingdom" or "Nova" on PBS. Today, kids can choose nothing but mental junk food because of the vast array of channels and entertainment programming. But I can get the kids to watch at least some educational things. They love "Seconds to Disaster," shows about wild weather, the future, space travel, and so forth. I've been trying to find good shows on American History but there's nothing lately, and the Biography channel has only been running stories of actors. (And to The Learning Channel, I say screw you and change your name. What a waste of time.)
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. I like that question
will have to use it.

Yes, mine has been working on a time machine. Many equations - most meaningless, but the interest is sparked and will grow.

Also zip codes for some reason. He would spend hours cataloguing them all.

I've also found not all junk is meaningless. He's become hooked on Mad Magazine. Has a book that's a compendium of old stuff from there. I think this 10 yo is far more aware of all the sort of silly cultural stuff that his parents (and grandparents) grew up with - but that he also then needs to hear the backstory - politics, history, why this is funny...

I think really everything can be a learning experience, so long as the child is still eager to learn and finds it fun. If we could just consistently find a way to do that with every child...
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Oh, believe me. We have plenty of junk going on here. I don't think I can
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 03:40 PM by GreenPartyVoter
take another episode of "The Suite Life." :P I would never qualify MAD as junk, though. As you say, it's pretty valuable for its cultural insights. Ditto for "Bloom County" and "Calvin and Hobbes" and other comic compendiums we have around here.

I love the zip code thing. I totally hear that! :D My older kid is all about cars. As a toddler he would line up his Matchboxes by color in a "rainbow parking lot." He also started poring over VIP car parts catalogs at that age, and still does it even now. Can't wait each spring for the newest one to come out. When he was about 3 he visited with his Grampy and forced him to look at every page of that catalog with him until bed time. Then he slid off of his lap and said, "Tomorrow, we'll read the phone book!" :D
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Too funny!!
Yes, I know EXACTLY what you mean!

I love these interesting, interested kids.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
77. My mom taught me before K
I started first grade at 5 yrs old.. And read at 3rd grade level at the time. They actually marched me to the 3rd graders to do reading with them after a while.

Mom taught me to read a little, to write a little before kindergarten. Wish she had taught me some math as well.

If a kid wants to learn it, teach em.. Instilling a love of reading and learning is the best gift a child can ever have IMO.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I half-expected a link to The Onion
:wow:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I understand
I couldn't even read the whole thing. Un. Real.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Another remnant of NCLB
at least that's what the mom cited later in the article. It isn't about the child wanting to learn, rather it is an ambitious parent who is afraid her child won't pass standardized tests. Incredible.

fwiw, I picked up reading by sitting on my mom's lap while she read to me. Later I started picking out words in cartoons and then the newspaper. I wanted to learn and my mom helped me. I had several other siblings that learned to read before kindergarten too. But not all of them. Kids are different and learn at different speeds which is, as you know, why NCLB sucks.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. I was reading when I went to kindergarten
But when I went to kindergarten we took naps and had snacks. And went on field trips. I still remember the field trips.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
54. I remember that
Story time!
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
65. I was reading in kindergarten
My parents read a lot--my father was in medical school at the time. When I was around 4 they noticed I was reading, they didn't really have an organized plan for teaching me.

But it did create some problems when I got in first grade. None of the other kids could read or write. My teacher was only around 21, just out of college. I remember her making me write while looking in a mirror so I would have to struggle like the other kids.

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Even my autistic son got some tutoring in numbers and letter in his
preschool class for children with disabilities. Very basic. And not all of the three year old kids could keep up.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. I'm a high-functioning autistic that was "hyperlexic" when I was little.
I could read unusually early, though I was too young the really have a grip on the meaning of what I was reading, LOL. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlexia
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. I can admit that I emphasized reading with my daughter and made it a goal for her
to be able to read by the time she started kindergarten. I didn't drill her or anything, though... I just read to her a lot. And taught her the letters and then the sounds they made while we were reading. At first since we read a lot of repetitive books, I would have her say a familiar word or phrase. Usually it was a guess... but eventually she started figuring it out. Oddly enough, however, emily's first words she recongnized were "Jeep" which was on the back of a jeep in the parking lot and "Stop" which was on the stop sign. I never pushed her though. I love reading, and my goal was to have a kid who loved reading. I could read before I started kindergarten myself... and I have always been a voracious reader. As it stands now, Emily is a reader. She is ten now, and is on the last harry potter book now....

It's great to want to teach your kid to read. To help them be better prepared. But it should be fun.... otherwise they may end up hating reading. BTW... kindergarten isn't the same as it was when I was in kindergarten. The kids have to know so much already before they ever get to kindergarten. It is kind of sad, really.... because we talked to the kindergarten teacher at the conference and she told us she could tell the kids that didn't go to preschool... they were so unprepared. had trouble....
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. i kept telling inlaws books for christmas and bdays. oldest LOVES books
more than toys. one year santa pres was 5 star wars books. last christmas in law wanted to know what to get him and said and NOT books. say what????

if it is a passion and pleasure and joy, why not. i bought him a huge almanac and sits next to his bed

i had a brother tell me all the reading that kid does deprives him of his childhood.... say what

he is 14 and continues to be avid reader and youngest son is right there with him. closet and room of books. and both have reading comprehension way beyond their age and grade
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I figure i wasn't the favorite aunt because i have always gotten all my nieces and
nephews books for everything. LOL! Emily gets books. heck, i can vividly remember getting a box of books one year for christmas or my birthday... tom sawyer, count of monte cristo, the last of the mohicans..... there were a lot of them. it was like the best!!! And with emily, we didn't have much, but i made sure we had books. i would go to yard sales and everything.... reading is the key to everything else, as far as i am concerned. it opens a world of imagination to a child... for me it was an escape when my life wasn't that great.... and I grew up writing poems and stories... always wanted to be a writer. books don't deprive a child... it frees them... helps them understand and develop vocabulary.... helps their imagination explode!! there is no better gift you can give to your child than a love of reading.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. i am right there with you. nt
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
68. Do you have a faviorite book store?
I always love old book stores.
the discount on price aside.

My sister was reading Conan and bottice busters when she was like 10/11 years old. She can read about 2x as fast as me with comprehension and memorization. I can only memorize.

I remember the PILE of books my sister would tear through when we were kids.

We would goto the cheap book fairs whenever there were some. My sister would always get a load of books for a penny (ok so this was in the 80's :p) and tear through books at the library.

I'm a very picky reader (and eater LOL, but my waist suggests otherwise) and preferred comics. But very adult comics. I never read or liked the mickey mouse type comics. I always liked spider-man and the original TMNT BnW comics.

Occasionally I would find a fantasy book I liked and tear through it like it was pre-school level LOL. I read some Sci-fi but found the plots as mostly stale. An ex introduced me to Spider Robinson, for which I am eternally grateful (funny sci-fi)

oh yeah I could read by the time I was 3/4. Before I went to pre-school. Mom and dad read to me. I had those golden books, and early "audio" books that played on my record player - as I followed along in the book.

Since then I read mostly sci-fi, and LOADS of audio-books.

Point being... it's up to parents to instill a love of reading and learning. Perhaps this parents feels she lacks the skills to do that... or time.
I don't know if I'll have kids (im 34 now) but I intend on instilling the same love of reading to my nieces and nephews if I can. The worlds that opened up for me were strange and wonderful, and gave me a love for the language that has happily not faded with age.
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cleverusername Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Control freak mom
Control freak mom. Make kids hate school before they even get there. By 3rd grade, they'll be burned out. Take the kid to the children's museum and let the kid be a kid. They've got some fun, educational exhibits.

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wait a damned minute.
School used to start in first grade, not all that long ago, and in most states is still the first year some form of schooling is mandatory. Then kindergarten became more popular (and in some states obligatory) in order to ensure readiness for the first grade. Then preschool became less about childcare and more about preparedness for kindergarten, first for disadvantaged and then for kids generally, and people started sending kids whether they were able to work with them at home or not, to programs that were originally intended to help kids with semi/illiterate parents to get the experience being read to that their peers got *at home*.

So most kids are getting two or three more years of schooling, sometimes four if they start preschool at two, than American kids got a few generations ago. I don't think there's any evidence that the results of all this extra work are any better than under the old system. Certainly people in my parents generation, who started school at five or six, are at least as well educated and literate as kids today who start school as soon as their parents can coax them into using a toilet.

I have to ask why we waste time and money on pushing kids into academic skills that precede their development, and what the harm that does is, and point out that this system of ever earlier readiness classes and now tutoring to make sure the kids aren't behind in their readiness classes, is wasteful, stupid and deeply unfair to the kids. And that anybody who makes a five year old waste their summer on phonics lessons to get a leg up on freakin' kindergarten is going to pay for it later after they fuck that kid up royally.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. California runs ads pushing for pre-school
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 05:28 PM by Liberal_in_LA
One such ad reversed a person from adult to childhood suggesting they'd be a loser if you didn't get them into pre-school
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. kindergarten isn't like kindergarten was when i was a kid. it's more like 1st grade...
they have things they have to know before they can even go to kindergarten. and the kids who don't go to preschool really struggle... preschool now serves the function of getting the kids used to being around other kids and structure and things.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Wrong. There's plenty of evidence supporting the practice.
Kids who learn to read pre-k do better throughout school. This is partly because the school systems now EXPECT that level of knowledge in kindergartners, and plan their educations accordingly. Kids who walk into their first day of kindergarten nowadays without some reading skills are academically delayed from day one. The days of kindergarten naptimes and singalongs came to an end nearly 30 years ago. There are adults today who grew up in the system you're deriding, and they not only did fine, they tended to be some of the school systems best performers. EVERY study done on the subject has shown a correlation between the aquisition of reading skill and overall academic performance/educational success.

My youngest starts kindergarten on Monday. He's 4, and has been reading for a year now.
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. i'd say kindergarten is more like 1st grade was when i was a kid.
kids are expected to recongnize numbers and letters and be able to read sight words as well. i don't think it's the ability to read as much as it is having some preschool before kindergarten to be ready for the structure and other things expected. kids who don't have the preschool will struggle. but if you can read before entering, or at least recongnize words... you are far better off and will have a head start. only thing is, not all kids will be able to read and we found emily tended to get bored in some cases. we still wonder if she isn't being challenged enough at the age of 10.... but she also has ADHD.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. Learning to read has fuck all to do with starting school as soon as they're potty trained.
All it takes to "teach" a kid with no intellectual disabilities to read is to

1. read to them

2. provide access to interesting books

3. read for pleasure in front of them, so they know it's a skill worth picking up

4. get the hell out of the way

Not only does that not take a classroom setting, it works best if done at home on the child's schedule. Trying to push reading ahead of readiness, let alone doing so with phonics drills like this poor kid is doing, is a way to create a kid who won't read unless you put a gun to their head. It's far better to let a kid learn at their own pace and actually ENJOY reading, because that creates a motivated reader.

Preschool was intended to help out kids whose families could not provide them with access to books and help from literate adults. And almost all studies used to tout the benefits of preschool focus on benefits for impoverished and otherwise at-risk kids. Even the evidence for those shows that the benefits of any early programs evaporate by the third grade, when preschool attendees show no differences from matched cohorts of non-attendees. This is also borne out by common sense- if three years of additional schooling was beneficial in the long term, then these accelerated schedules would continue apace and modern high school graduates would have the skills of the third year college students of yesteryear. Needless to say, this is so far from the truth as to be laughable.

At best, preschool and full-day "academic" kindergarten programs provide overpriced, impersonal childcare on the public dime. At worst, they do great harm by teaching young children that they are failures and do not enjoy learning by pushing academic benchmarks ahead of the prerequisite cognitive skills, failing to account for the fairly high disparity in normal development in young children.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. .
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 08:42 PM by LeftyMom
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. The kid's already Googled the word "matricide".
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
73. Best. Post. Ever.
Well, in this thread anyway....
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. (shrug) I could read before I went to school. Though I learned from my parents, not a tutor.
Frankly I think this ought to be the norm, though that's not easy for everyone.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. I could read in Spanish. It made kinder and 1st grade sort of boring
iirc.

I have a lot of respect for teacher of kids under 8. It must be really hard to keep up with them. I could never do that job.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. My daughter starts kindergarten next week. Per her Preschool teachers
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 05:55 PM by Jennicut
she only needed to know her letters and numbers and how to spell and recognize the letters in her name. She knows some simple words like cat and dog. I learned that in kindergarten. Knowing how to read, not a requirement yet. Some 4 and 5 year olds can handle that but many are simply not ready. I refuse to pressure Morgan. I learned to read by 1st grade and ended up getting on the Honor role in high school plenty of times. Too much pressure on kids as there is. Any parent who falls into the trap of making sure little Johnny or Susie is the way ahead of every other kids scares me.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Good for this mother to teach her child phonics and that there
is such a thing as proper spelling. That whole word approach used to teach reading when my kids were in school in the 1980s po'd me so much that I taught them phonics, grammar, and spelling at home because they weren't learning anything but that spelling a word so it was recognizable let alone correct was not necessary. I was chewed out by one of the teachers and proceeded to tell her that I would continue to make certain that my children continued to learn English correctly and how to read at the same time. When she and the school system wanted to start actually teaching the mechanics of English rather than turning it into a frustrating guessing game, then I would give the job over fully to them again.

My daughter is one of the best read people I know and has worked in a book editor's office. My son is an engineer. Both were excellent students who went out into the world prepared to navigate it in language well learned.
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Okie4Obama Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Crazy, but I think you should watch your children's signals...
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 06:08 PM by Okie4Obama
I started reading at 3, but I taught myself through Sesame Street and a desire to know. My daughter is 6 and she's just beginning to read, but she can do math at a 2nd grade level. Her first love is science, but she is now signaling us she is ready to learn how to read more advanced words besides cat and mat. I don't want a super kid who outdoes all the other children, I want a kid who is intellectually curious and loves to learn. I wonder how much pushing of reading on to kids who are not ready for it causes learning problems later on.

Here's one take from an educator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7107798.stm
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d_r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. MORE PLAY!!!
Young children learn by doing, and playing is doing.
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Thank you!! I'm a PreK teacher
Young children learn best through play and hands-on activities.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. Ugh, control freak mom.
You can't push kids faster than their brains are developing.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. 2 hours a week is nothing to worry about.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I disagree
Kids need to be kids, not miniature learning machines.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. i dont know how all this went down, but come on. little ones learn every second of every day
that is their whole purpose is learn learn learn. that IS their play.

just cause you have the play as something useful doesnt mean they arent having a blast working their minds. even in the exploring adn the outdoor play, it is learning, and all kinds of handy tools are being taught to them.

my oldest was a structure baby. the same routine every day, without fail. same foods with little variation, same times.

after cuddle, breakfast, outdoors.... we would go in house and "work" on puter with various learning games. he on my lap and spend an hour going over words, sounds, identifications.

jump start toddlers, dr suess, i cant remember them all, decade ago. but it was cuddle, and play.... but ssssssh, really, learning.

every night an hour or less cuddle in bed with books.

more learning

but more

touching, bonding, being
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. LOL, I was like your oldest, only more so.
Though that makes sense given that I have Aspergers. I threw fits if there was too much change and not enough structure, LOL.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. he is bad that way
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 08:34 PM by seabeyond
he is starting freshman year. went to school to walk his schedule so he wouldnt be totally lost first day

i haven't had son tested, they wanted to in kindergarten and suggesting drugs.... i said no.

i have done a lot of reading, but i see some add (no hyper) autism and aspergers. some of all of those show up, but not enough of anyone to point to. i reduced it to "fuzzy" brain a couple years ago to explain to teachers. and tools we have that helps him with this.

when he was a baby, he would wake up shaking, so sad. so i would turn out or dim lites, no noise and slowly rub him awake. he couldn't do noise. got into school and had melt down at pep rally. told teacher he couldn't do. she sat with him and then took him out. would be so excited for a party and after 15-20 minutes meltdown and i would have to take him to quiet to bring his feet back on earth.

just a real interesting kid.

fun

a joy
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. Wow, he sounds EXACTLY like me!
I HATED HATED HATED pep rallies. Fire alarms and tornado drills = insta-meldown! :(
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. yep....
and so much more

interesting. thanks odin, for info
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. No Problema!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. That's completely different from structured tutoring sessions
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. yes. but the kid was a year old doing this. this girl is 5. i just dont get
why they need a tutor and the parent isnt doing it anyway.

what is the difference from a structured tutoring and a parent sittin next to child at table doing this stuff.... cause he can, or is interested, or is preparing in confidence, stepping into the scary kindergarten.

we rip kids apart for being stupid today. and rip parents apart for not parenting.

again i say.... we see and know so little here, but at that age, i can see them seeing it as totally play
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. Did you see the picture? She doesn't look like she's having fun
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. There's 166 hours left in the week (nt)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. She's 5, not 18
Let her play.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
67. I hear a lot of complaints/comments from teachers who say parents need to be more involved....


... in supporting academic pursuits. That's exactly what this parent is doing. Supporting her soon to be teachers but providing a mere 2 hours of academic structure.

By 5 most parents are already establishing reasonable age appropriate structure as well as much more time for play and other pursuits.



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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. Paying for developmentally inappropriate tutoring is not the kind of support needed
Burning kids out academically is damaging.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. sounding out words, simple reading, simple addition, penmanship?

This is not developmentally inappropriate at 5.

What does it matter if a parent pays for a tutor or does it him/herself?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. It matters a lot
There is a huge difference, especially to a 5 year old, between Mom working with academic skills and a tutor.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
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crazy_vanilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. kids just can't be kids anymore
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 08:28 PM by crazy_vanilla
These parents are overly ambitious ... The kid will have plenty of time to work hard in the future - give her a break now, at 3!!!

BTW, children learn a lot more through play at this age than through anything else. Soon we'll start tutoring sperm and ova just to get a headstart on the learning.

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snailly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. As mom of a happy, smart 3 year old
My daughter can read and spell out many words, write her full name, knows simple addition and subtraction, knows her address and phone number and has a blast covering herself and the paper with finger paints, dancing around and just acting like a 3 year old should.

None of these things did I actively teach her. I just provided the books and materials and creative enthusiasm. We just have fun together everyday and I go with HER interests.

Point is, these years are so short. If you just truly enjoy being with your child and foster their interests, they will grow and thrive.


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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
43. I could see if we were talking about high school algebra but
a tutor for kindergarten? Unless the kids have a learning disability the parents should be able to tutor their own young kids. I could read, write, and do simple math when I was three. I'm not about to criticize parents for simply wanting to encourage learning but something about a tutor for kids that young strikes me as putting too much pressure on a child.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Jesus. Hiring a tutor for a prekindergarten kid.
Why not just give up on the whole "parenting" gig altogether?

Is it that much to read to your kids and maybe show them some flash cards? Worked for me.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. I learned to read at the age of 4
and taught my younger sisters to read before they entered kindergarten. My reading skills were tested while I was in the fourth grade - I read at college level at 9 years of age.

It's more startling to me that so many parents have such low expectations and so little committment to the early education of their children, than it could ever be that some parents "push" their kids to learn before they may be ready.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. I started reading when I was 3, was reading college-level stuff when I was 10
I was a "Gifted and Disabled" kid, though, a high-functioning autistic. Not all kids are the same.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #50
62. That's it, right there: "Not all kids are the same."
the key, I think, is to encourage and allow each child to learn - not from some canned schedule, but as their interests take them.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
53. As a proponent of "unschooling", I find this appalling.
I home-schooled and I know that kids, that given the resources to follow their own natural curiosity, will learn everything that they need to know. They may not be on a par with their peers at any given time, sometimes they will be ahead, sometimes behind; but, ultimately, by middle class standards, they will all end up where you'd expect them to be intelligence-wise and motivation-wise. The main benefit for unschooled students is the amount of freedom and oodles of time to explore specific interests and creative pursuits.

My daughter has her children enrolled in a democratic school and if one had been available while I was teaching my daughter, I would have enrolled her in one, as well.

Democratic schools do not have compulsory uniform curricula. Instead, these schools place emphasis on learning as a natural product of all human activity. They assume that the free market of ideas, free conversation, and the interplay of people provide sufficient exposure to any area that may prove relevant and interesting to individual students. Students of all ages learn together; older students learn from younger students as well as vice versa. Students of different ages often mentor each other in social skills.

In democratic schools, students are given responsibility for their own education. There is no pressure, implicitly nor explicitly, on students by staff to learn anything in particular. Students are given the right and responsibility to choose what to do with their time and attention.

Because the curricula are different for each student, democratic schools do not compare or rank students. There are no compulsory tests aside from those that individual governments require and those that colleges require for admission.

Some schools — mostly in the United States — offer a graduation procedure for those who wish to receive a high school diploma. Students who choose to use this option often must present a thesis on how they have prepared themselves for adulthood.

A striking feature of democratic schools is the ubiquity of play. Students of all ages — but especially the younger ones — often spend most of their time either in free play, or playing games (electronic or otherwise). No attempt is made to limit, control or direct the play — it is seen as activity every bit as worthy as academic pursuits, often even more valuable. Play is considered essential for learning, particularly in fostering creativity<1>. The pervasiveness of play has led to a recurring observation by first-time visitors to a democratic school that the students appear to be in perpetual "recess"<2>.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_education

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. I don't like unschooling and I too find this appalling
We are slowly taking childhood away from kids.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #53
63. I wish I had went to a school like that.
I pretty much taught myself when I was a kid, I often knew more than the teacher, and got punished for it!
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #63
69. Taking into consideration some of the things
that you wrote on this thread, you probably would have thrived in a democratic school.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
58. I entered school able to read and do simple math.
I don't see a problem with this as long as the child genuinely enjoys the tutoring experience. :shrug:
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moc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
59. I think this is a very bad trend. To understand why, one must understand the huge range
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 07:11 AM by moc
of individual readiness for school at this age. It's probably wider than for anything else at any other stage of development. You've got kids reading at the age of 3, and you've got kids for whom reading doesn't "click" until almost 8. The truth is that the the early reader isn't some sort of genius (contrary to the belief of his overly impressed parents), and the vast majority of those late readers don't have a learning disability. By 3rd or 4th grade, most of these individual differences will have washed away - the "later" reader will be reading just as well and sometimes better than the "early" reader.

I see this trend of pushing pre-K kids in a developmentally inappropriate way as a natural outgrowth of NCLB. Schools are under tremendous pressure to have good scores at the first testing opportunities in 2nd or 3rd grade. Expectations for mastery become earlier and earlier, until we see things like kindergarteners being expected to read words that are usually the expectation for second graders. Pushing these early expectations doesn't mean that kids will achieve earlier. Each child has his or her own developmental "clock", and it will unfold at its own rate. For those children for whom early achievement was part of their own developmental schedule, pushing academics earlier will not have much of a negative effect. But, for those children who are not ready developmentally, pushing these sorts of activities at such an early age will do nothing but increase anxieties as well as negative self-perceptions of academic skills and school in general. Not worth the trade off, in my opinion.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
66. I would have not even got into kindergarten.
The youngest of my grandchildren is going into kindergarten this year. Prior to being admitted he had to meet with an evaluator to see if he was ready.

When I went to kindergarten, that was in the Dark Ages, I had absolutely no reading ability and didn't even know my colors. I remember the big posters around the room with the colors that Sister Angelica would go through each morning. It was in first grade that I learned the alphabet with the help of my loving grandfather who lived with us after gram died. I was under the impression that kindergarten was a time when they prepared you to be able to sit still and pay attention instead of wanting to play.

It seems kids today are on some super sonic leaning mission. Maybe that is okay and they will turn out to be highly successful. But what amazes me is that we have such a high drop out rate amongst all these acclaimed super students.

I remember one of my cousins. Tom spent three years in first grade. My aunt would go down to school each year and the nun would tell her he wasn't ready yet. Tom was most appropriatedly named. He loved to just be out in the woods, fishing and tromping about and didn't give a lick for school. Well this dumb cluck turned out to be a super student in high school and went on to medical school. He was a professor at at one of the most prestigious medical schools in addition to having an outstanding medical practice. It is difficult to figure out just what contribution to civilization a five year old is going to make whether he can read and do math or not.

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
74. People are nuts. My daughter's teen-age friends have
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 10:40 AM by LibDemAlways
spent this summer taking SAT prep classes that will supposedly improve those scores, so this sort of crap continues on through school.

Let the kid progress at her own pace. She'll do fine. That mother ought to back the hell off.


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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
78. I was WAY ahead of my peers in the early grades
and I'm not sure that it did me any favors.

I still have a mortal dread of listening to people read aloud. :scared:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. My boys went to Mom-Prep school
and did not even GO to pre-school.nursery school.

a great kindergarten teacher told me she could always tell withing a few minutes of meeting her new class, which ones had been to pre-school and which had not..

She preferred the had-nots.. said they were more enthusiastic and took "school" more seriously, and were thrilled to be there.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. I went to nursery school for about a year when my mom's sibs decided
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 03:36 PM by EFerrari
my grandmother shouldn't be watching me. She was lonely and I learned to "go away and play with the other kids" that year. lol
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