Enough with the whining about single payer.....

I've read a lot of griping about how Obama is failing us by not pursuing single payer... please stop and instead get behind the public option. Why?

Because simply put: Public Option + TIME = Single Payer.

Think about it. Most health care currently comes from employee benefits. As an employer, you provide those benefits to attract and retain valued workers and to compete for new talent in the employment market. You don't do this out of the goodness of you heart, but because the 'market' expects it. People looking for jobs evaluate offers based on benefits.

For the companies this recruitment/retention carrot is problematic. It has been getting more and more expensive and a bureaucratic hassle (you often have to outsource the HR components of this). While the chamber of commerce isn't on board for ideological reasons, from a practical perspective most companies would be thrilled with a public option if it was a cheaper way to provide this benefit. While some employers might want to keep their expensive health plans (ones that are really after high-cost talent), most would try to cut costs by shifting employees to the public option. Benefits comparisons across jobs are harder to do than wages. Some employees would be more sensitive to private/public differences. The process of shifting from private insurance would probably begin with the lowest income tiers. As is was demonstrated that the public option was effective and efficient, more employers would shift more employees from private to public insurance and the ranks of the publicly option subscribers would move up the income ladder.

At some period we will reach a tipping point. It will happen when more people are insured through the public system than private. It will happen because companies may have management (private) and labor (public) divisions that come under scrutiny in a downturn. It will probably not be the 50-50 point but more like 60-40 or 65-35. Then, questions will be raised about the need for private insurance at all. The effectiveness of the government system will have been proven. A singe payer system will take shape. There may be some class divisions in play. Given America's predisposition toward inequality, some sort of two-tier single-payer + supplemental system will probably emerge.

By this time, the key economic benefits of single payer will already be showing. The size of the public option pool will be large enough to create market power for the government plan to set prices. Private insurers will have no choice but to follow this pricing lead.

Here is another tip: The insurance industry and GOP know this! They are aware of how economic incentives will drive the growth of the public plan and that is why they are fighting so hard to stop ANY public option because it will, given time, lead to single payer. He may be an ass, but George Will is right ....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/19/AR2009061902334.html

SO, give up the Single payer hand wringing. Yeah it would have been a nice 'in your face' but without 60 REAL dems in the senate it wasn't going to happen. Instead get behind our stealth strategy.

Foot in the door strategy.

It seems likely we won't even get the public option.

Bryant

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/17/key-feature-of-obama-health-plan-may-be-out-washingtonpost-com/
Matt Taibbi
Taibblog


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Ambinder: White House “Won’t Buckle” To Liberal Demands For Public Plan
By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday August 19, 2009 2:33 pm

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/19/ambinder-white-house-wont-buckle-to-liberal-demands-for-public-plan/
I know people are reluctant to believe that the President has no plans to include a public option in his health care bill, but according to Marc Ambinder, that is indeed the truth:

The White House and Senate Democrats won't buckle to demands from liberals that they revise their health care strategy, officials said today.

Liberals are demanding the inclusion of a public plan. The White House won't "revise" their strategy to accommodate them.

Glenzilla:

The attempt to attract GOP support was the pretext which Democrats used to compromise continuously and water down the bill. But -- given the impossibility of achieving that goal -- isn't it fairly obvious that a desire for GOP support wasn't really the reason the Democrats were constantly watering down their own bill? Given the White House's central role in negotiating a secret deal with the pharmaceutical industry, its betrayal of Obama's clear promise to conduct negotiations out in the open (on C-SPAN no less), Rahm's protection of Blue Dogs and accompanying attacks on progressives, and the complete lack of any pressure exerted on allegedly obstructionists "centrists," it seems rather clear that the bill has been watered down, and the "public option" jettisoned, because that's the bill they want -- this was the plan all along.

Max Baucus (who is negotiating the White House's bill) today reaffirmed his commitment to have a "bipartisan" bill. Since Republicans will never sign off on a public plan, that's not-so-subtle code for "no public plan." And any time anyone says that, including President Obama, that is in fact what they're saying.

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http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1122691,CST-NWS-hosp23.article

some in my neck of the woods would call this ..patient dumping!!

is an excellent way to ensure that the people you're trying to 'reach' won't give a tinker's damn what you write after that comment.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want folks to consider it you might want to refrain from suggesting that their opinion is nothing more than whining.

THEN, when called on it, not only get defensive, but get more aggressive.

"Let there be peace, and let it begin with me."

I hope you aren't planning a career in politics or PR.

I'd prefer to generate some thinkers. From the responses, it seem the whiners just like to whine -- they seem indisposed toward thinking.

Unlike those who come to attack.

about other people having differing opinions from yours? I just do not understand the self appointed lecture types. This OP is a giant whine and nothing more. "be like meeeeeeee...".

I simply want our side to engage in some reasoning on this.

attacking less.

THAT would be "thoughtful".

:eyes:

sounds like you are with us (the people) or you are a party member (them).
convenient to act as if there were really a choice in american politics. if there were we would not have to vote for the "lesser of two evils". when was the last election that that wasn't the case?

WELL.,.I HAVE MY REASONING CAP ON PRETTY SECURELY..I TELL YOU...

and this is what i see..........

If Progressive Members of the House Think We’ll Accept Co-Ops As Public Plan, Think Again
By: Jane Hamsher Thursday August 20, 2009 8:27 am http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/20/if-progressive-members-of-the-house-think-well-accept-co-ops-as-public-plan-think-again/



Matt Taibbi says that Rahm Emanuel's health care debacle could be to the Obama administration what the Iraq war was to George Bush.

He's right.

Matt says that progressives in the House might not vote for a bill that does not have a public option. If that's true, it's because of external pressure, not internal resolve. They were dragged kicking and screaming to that position. They knew -- as we did -- in late June that co-ops were going to be fobbed off as a "public plan." They did not want to publicly commit to draw a line in the sand.



Please do go read the entire timeline ..it is must reading!! see the video of Matt as well!

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/20/if-progressive-members-of-the-house-think-well-accept-co-ops-as-public-plan-think-again/

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Ambinder: White House “Won’t Buckle” To Liberal Demands For Public Plan
By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday August 19, 2009 2:33 pm

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/19/ambinder... /
I know people are reluctant to believe that the President has no plans to include a public option in his health care bill, but according to Marc Ambinder, that is indeed the truth:

The White House and Senate Democrats won't buckle to demands from liberals that they revise their health care strategy, officials said today.

Liberals are demanding the inclusion of a public plan. The White House won't "revise" their strategy to accommodate them.

Glenzilla:

The attempt to attract GOP support was the pretext which Democrats used to compromise continuously and water down the bill. But -- given the impossibility of achieving that goal -- isn't it fairly obvious that a desire for GOP support wasn't really the reason the Democrats were constantly watering down their own bill? Given the White House's central role in negotiating a secret deal with the pharmaceutical industry, its betrayal of Obama's clear promise to conduct negotiations out in the open (on C-SPAN no less), Rahm's protection of Blue Dogs and accompanying attacks on progressives, and the complete lack of any pressure exerted on allegedly obstructionists "centrists," it seems rather clear that the bill has been watered down, and the "public option" jettisoned, because that's the bill they want -- this was the plan all along.

Max Baucus (who is negotiating the White House's bill) today reaffirmed his commitment to have a "bipartisan" bill. Since Republicans will never sign off on a public plan, that's not-so-subtle code for "no public plan." And any time anyone says that, including President Obama, that is in fact what they're saying.


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http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/17/key-feature-... /
Matt Taibbi
Taibblog


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Aug. 17 2009 - 12:58 am | 16,058 views | 11 recommendations | 79 comments
Obama’s Pre-emptive Health Care Surrender

snip;

Now, obviously (and this is will be explored in more detail in the forthcoming piece, which will be out this week), the public option was not a cure-all. In fact, the Democrats had in reality already managed to kill the public option by watering it down to the point of near-meaninglessness. But the notion that our president not only does not have any use anymore for a public option, but in fact “will be satisfied” if there is merely “choice and competition” in the market is, well, disgusting.

I’ll say this for George Bush: you’d never have caught him frantically negotiating against himself to take the meat out of a signature legislative initiative just because his approval ratings had a bad summer. Can you imagine Bush and Karl Rove allowing themselves to be paraded through Washington on a leash by some dimwit Republican Senator of a state with six people in it the way the Obama White House this summer is allowing Max Baucus (favorite son of the mighty state of Montana) to frog-march them to a one-term presidency?

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in my neck of the woods ..this is patient dumping..........

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1122691,CST...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


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Kucinich with Ed
Kucinich with Ed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWDwvjETyo&eurl=http%3A ...

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and never forget Rahm calling us F'ing stupid.....

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/rahm-slam... /


Rahm Slammed Dems Attacking Other Dems As “F–king Stupid,” Sources Say
The Politico’s Jonathan Martin reported this morning that Rahm Emanuel warned leaders of liberal groups in a private meeting this week that it was time to stop running ads attacking Blue Dog and “centrist” Dems on health care.

I’m told, however, that Emanuel went quite a bit further than this.

Sources at the meeting tell me that Emanuel really teed off on the Dem-versus-Dem attacks, calling them “f–king stupid.” This was a direct attack on some of the attendees in the room, who are running ads against Dems right now.


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and now your intimidation tactic of calling us whinners...and telling us to reason..please enlighten me..are we supposed to only "REASON" WHAT YOU REASON?????????

Because for 57 years i have had no problem reasoning when i educate myself with facts..real facts!

Some nerve you have telling others to reason..have you listened to what any of us have said and have reasoned out of what we have learned ???????????

If not, this is not a strategy, it's another dodge for another generation of suffering.

:thumbsdown:

unreccommended

..it so sad. The don't even respond to provocation.

they tend not to listen.

Is this how you talk to people offline? Call them whiny assholes and tell them why they're wrong?

It leads to defensiveness. It closes minds.

Anyone who has studied rhetoric would know this....so would any casual observer of politics in this country.

You aren't very good at this, so perhaps you need to think first before posting this kind of divisive shit.

for any situation you don't begin the bargaining in the middle (where you might expect to end up) but you begin by promoting what to you is the best option (your dream result).
democrats continually begin to bargain with what their constituents hope to see as the end result of compromise.
compromise - left vs right = center
compromise - center vs right = center right
the op's argument is the same one used during the civil rights movement against african-americans who expected equal treatment and recognition. "take it one step at a time" "you can't expect to be treated like a genuine person overnight, give it time"
the argument was bull-shit then and remains bull-shit today.

- thinking that one day it will lead to their complete demise.

Yeah, I can see that happening.

and the voters remain apathetic and ignorant of their power....health care might trickle down to us.

Yes the public option COULD lead to Single Payer.

But only if we keep pushing for it.

Things in Politics don't just happen by some kind of magical inertia.

They happen because people "whine" about them.

Personally I think the GOP has a lot to teach us. For instance, we need to not only demand a public option but when we get it demand even more

either. Politicians do what is politically expedient that includes Dems and Obama, and if the people didn't "whine" they would have dumped the public option.


This whole "whine" thing is a cock of shit. I'm not whining, I am PISSED OFF. Whine is what little kids do when they can only have one scoop of ice cream. I don't whine I rant and rave and yell because I' angry.

nwmhtt

Once we've got that thoroughly soaked we can consider maybe wetting the garage, or maybe the deck should be the next task?

Opening your argument with "whiners" won't win you any arguments