I witnessed a horrible accident today

I was on the interstate and a Toyota Camry in front of me suddenly spun out of control. I don't know if she was dodging something in the road or if another car crossed into her lane or what. She was less than a car length in front of me and all ofa sudden her car just started spinning. She hit the concrete railing on the side of the highway head on and then her car bounced around and the rear end hit the railing also.

Her air bags saved her life. I was blown away when she stepped out of her car. I thought for sure she would be dead. Both the front and the rear of her car were obliterated. I had pulled over right behind her and jumped out and ran over, expecting her to fall over at any minute. I got her to come back to my car and sit down and I called 911.

In the meantime a fireman who just happened to be passing by pulled over, took a look at the car and called for an ambulance. He came over to my car and told the woman to sit still and an ambulance was on its way. She said no she didn't want an ambulance, she wasn't hurt. And she started to walk away. The fireman said she might be hurt and she needed to sit still and wait for the ambulance.

Then I heard her ask "How much is this going to cost?"

So a woman totaled her car, miraculously walked away from the wreckage, and worries about paying for an ambulance.

Only in the good ole USA! :patriot:

since I don't have health insurance. But I guess my car ins might pay for it not sure.

some policies also cover some of the care as well

But if you only have the state's mandated minimum liability coverage, you're SOL.

Why don't we just have insurance for such things, insurance that covers our medical costs no matter what happens, SINGLE PAYER INSURANCE? Ambulances, blood transfusions, the whole works. Why do families have to worry about money when their loved one's life hangs in balance?

We pay for real insurance but we don't get it. Not even with Medicare.

the state mandated liability insurance is for other people you hit, it doesn't cover YOU

i would have refused the ambulance as well...

diff story if she was a big rich driver w comprehensive coverage but i'm going to assume this is not the case

you wouldn't have coverage through your car insurance. We add a small medical plan to our car insurance at a cost of less than $5 per month. We would be covered in that car. However, when our car was totalled last fal, we refused the call for an ambulance and chose to go on our own to an urgent car clinic later in the day. our car insurance covered that cost initially although our insurance was later reimbursed by that of the man who blew the light and broadsided us.

and any injury from the crash.

I have Geico, minimum coverage. I get injured, and unless the other driver's insurance pays, I am SOL.

m

How dare you force the American auto manufacturers to produce safer products that save lives in crashes.

How dare you stop the free market from producing enclosed golf carts like this one from India and passing them off as AUTOMOBILES:



:rofl:

That's one strange looking vehicle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_nano

Here's a crash test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTkstHr57wQ

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/news/article3168303.ece

:rofl:

(love the name)

There aren't so many Excursions or Hummers around in India to squish you like a bug.

glad you both are alright.

She could have internal injuries that she doesn't know about.

We need American faces put on TV to show that people are ignoring care at their own peril!

That's one BIG difference between us.

;)

A friend's mother was having a stroke. An ambulance was called because I couldn't get there to transport her. Ran into considerable money the family can't afford.

(Which is something of a political football in my province.)

The rest of the care, though - she'd be fine in that regard.

You have no idea how many times patients tried to refuse care... now that I think about it, most were American.

I stand corrected.

I still remember a young man, he was rubbing his neck... he said that.

I told him, we are transporting to the Red Cross Hospital and you may have a hurt neck. (I did not exaggerate though when they took the X-Ray... he kept that Cervical Collar all the way to the US trauma center.)

His family and him were shocked when we never asked for insurance information. Now the American ambulance that took him to the Trauma center twenty hours later... you can bet your silly ass they asked.

But nobody asked a question about how you are going to pay for this? He went to the hospital, got initial care, and was stabilized until they covered all the legalities for medevac to US Trauma... and at no time did the words, insurance or payment cross the provider's lips.

When I did my ride alongs in San Diego that question was so close to the top, behind the orientation questions that I knew that was a problem. So yes, I was proud to work in a system that had its issues and trust me it did... but where the patient came first, as far as our resources allowed us. And sometimes our patients did cover some of their care, sometimes they didn't... so be it.

And I think I have told our nightmare story with blue cross\blue shield already... suffice it to say, not an approved facility, so forget it...

but _ after being called to eval a psych patient in ICU who had OD'd - called directly by BCBS mind you - and saved them a ton of money by helping her so well and so fast - they denied payment 6 weeks later and said it wasn't authorized! In this case their area medical director, whom I knew, resigned over it.

I once got a free ambulance ride for 6 blocks (dehydrated from flu, and faint) over this issue. I refused transport to hospital (8 blocks) but agreed to a ride home ONLY IF MY WELFARE WAS THE ACTUAL CONCERN. Slow day for ambulance company apparently.

I have also seen a lot of rural ambulance rides diverted to their own home hospital over "transient cardiac abnormalities" - which means they agreed to transport to the closest hospital but "saw something on EKG" which "required" diversion to their own facility - with no proof of course, and a lot of money on the line.

we did at times transports to US facilities from Mexico because the family could not hope to afford the medevac...

It is time to correct these problems... more than just high time.

As to insurance companies, don't get me started on Blue Cross Blue Shield of California... suffice it to say I am so glad I now have real insurance, the kind I want everybody to have... government run insurance... no, not medicare...

Few people worry about the death, it's PAYING for it that worries them.

The first two for more than 125,000 miles... the current one is at 60,000.

Actually, I think those are now mandatory for all cars sold in the US now.

I've heard nightmare story after nightmare story about ambulance rides that ended up costing the person a bundle - the stress is more harmful than the accident IMO as I don't respond well to these motherfucking penny-counting idiots.

money would have never entered the equation. If you were in Canada, again money would not enter the equation...

Sad that in the US it does.

...meet the Republicans... :eyes:

and a few others...

n/t

and there are subscription services in Mexico as well.

Remember, I worked for the Red Cross... we were charity...

If she wasn't injured (according to her own evaluation) she had every right to refuse the $500 ambulance ride.

don't feel it?

By the way, 500 that is cheap dear. And that should not be an issue. Instead of applauding this, you should be horrified that it is happening.

I agree that TRULY FUCKED UP people should have the option but I also think people should be able to decide whether or not they are TRULY FUCKED UP.

It's a shame not everyone who gets into an accident doesn't have your expertise instantly available to tell them whether or not they need trauma care or triage.

You roll a car, you should get trauma care. Cost should not enter into the decision.

"You don't have the right to kill your baby, we won't let you do it"

See how it works?

she obviously was concerned about the cost of that care. she refused care because she couldn't pay for it, not because she didn't need it.

I see. That's a real fine solid progressive position.

that would not even be a question. Do you need further help in translating this? And that MY DEAR is the PROGRESSIVE position. When you do get in an accident, the cost of the ambulance is NOT AN ISSUE, neither is the cost of the Emergency Room. That is NEVER part of the conversation.

Is this so hard to understand?

A lot of us have the "Don't worry. I'm fine," instinct. Pair that with-- if you need help it will cost you $500 out of pocket until you get reimbursed and god knows how much if the hospital takes a bunch of tests-- and lots of people would do the "I'm fine. Never mind."

If we had Medicare for All this woman would have been able to choose the ambulance without worrying about the cost versus how she felt at the time. She would have been able to accept the advice of the fireman who has seen his share of trauma victims.

after an accident, go home and get really, really sick... and sometimes die.

Look up flight of fight.

Oh and the firefighter who called the ambulance did so based on protocols developed because of experiences like what I just described.

Also her reason to refuse care was NOT because she felt fine, and could make a judgment, where is her degree from and does she have X-Ray vision? but because of the COST...

who might not want it. And some people want to DENY it for the same goofy 'reasons'. Unless we have a cadre of omniscient caregivers who have the legal right to second-guess every single person, I say all that monday-mornng quarterbacking is unnecessary bullshit. Your mileage obviously varies. I wonder how much you'd like that kind of oversight when some do-gooder tells you that you can't get an abortion because you obviously aren't thinking straight.

You've mentioned it twice now where it has absolutely no bearing on a possible trauma case.

And there have been cases where people thought they were fine after an accident, only to find out later that they were far from fine.

After the endorphins fade, the pain sets in.

And you are arguing with a trained EMS person who knows of that which she speaks.

But you are talking out of your hat.

do-gooders who may act in good faith but insist on butting in where they might not be wanted even after being so informed.

it is not as simple as you think, while it is at the same.

If you are Alert and Oriented Times Three, you sign MY AMA (aka my CYA for the change you are truly hurt and might sue me later), and you can go on your merry way.

You are not,

See the explanation on the rules of consent and implied consent... they are so universal it is not funny.

capable of evaluating her choices. The Good Samaritan laws trump your ethics in this case. I don't even believe the story anyway...it's all just a little too perfectly contrived.
Who the hell can maintain control after a car 20 feet ahead crashes? Sounds like BS to me.

Will be watching for pizza.

And I know what that distance was not only was I able to estimate skid mark distance (because my job requires I be able to sight distance accurately), I know from experience what may look like 20 feet to a driver on a freeway at speed is usually between 50 and 60 feet.
If you were paying attention, have quick reflexes and a car with good handling - and luck in the traffic behind and beside you - it can be done.
In a crash case, though, it is best to keep aware of the person involved, and at least if they aren't going to go to the hospital in an ambulance, make sure that they know they should got checked out. Airbags hurt; my husband rear-ended a truck at slow speed, and he still ended up with some nasty cuts, bruises, a cracked rib (from the plastic of the airbag cover) and some lung problems from inhaling the gunpowder that deployed the airbags.
I'm hoping that if the woman didn't take the ambulance, whomever picked her up from the side of the freeway took her to a clinic or an emergency room, just to get checked out.

Haele

and sings an AMA, she is free to go...

Those protocols are there for a reason.

I do hope YOU NEVER get into that situation, because I feel sorry for the poor EMTs if they find you are NOT Alert and Oriented Times Three.

Yep, you remind me of some of my patients...

IT IS MY RIGHT

NO I WON.....

THUNK.

that I am a very good driver with an excellent record.

But you probably wouldn't have believed that either.

Enjoy your stay.

nm

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i definitely will not stop to help or call an ambulance :nuke:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I don't usually hear the term outside of ignorant right wing circles.

We do-gooders really mess things up, don't we? Always messing with god's plan for the righteous.

BTW- is Matt 6_5 some kind of bible code, too?

and not one of the "horrific" disruptors who actually have opposing points of view! Egads!

and medical ethics.

If I show up at a scene and a patient tells me not only no, but HELL NO... I still have the OBLIGATION to make sure they are capable of making that decision.

To do this I will ask three questions to establish her or his level of consciousness. after all it is well know that patients with a head injury may tell me HELL NO, and not be oriented times 3.

If the patient can answer all THREE questions... and trust me they are very simple. I will try to explain why a medical checkup is important, and if they still refuse, I will hand them a form, called an Against Medical Advise Form. That is essentially CYA for my ass, just in case they are hurt and don't know it yet, and die later.

For the record I have later on gone back to same patients who refused medical aid after they collapsed and transported to the hospital. Yep they were code traumas.

Mow if the patient CANNOT answer those three questions, then I am obligated to assume IMPLIED consent, that is a reasonable person in full function of their mental capacities would agree to medical care. I have to be VERY SURE of this, otherwise it could be construed as kidnapping. I have transported patients who said not only hell no, a few times under implied consent rules. I will give you two examples.

1.- Older woman, who had a broken hip, and her liver was fractured. she was bleeding inside. Believe you me, we were surprised about the hip fracture since she was standing when we met her. For the record all she could tell us was her name. We transported in backboard and full spinal precautions of course and once we started our advanced care realized she was bleeding somewhere (see liver and hip), so we started some IVs and gave her oxygen. Her orientation improved and she finally started feeling the pain.

2.- A younger man, who said no, after a major fight. Had a gash on his head, a bleeder. He again could not answer one of my questions, and of course had a pupil larger than the other. We transported. MRI revealed a nasty subdural hematoma. He survived, due to us being stubborn and not taking no for an answer.

So if you can answer all those orientation questions correctly, yes, sign my AMA and good luck. Have a good day, and hopefully you will be fine enough that I don't have to see you ever again, or at least in the next 24 hours.

Oh and before you say it, if you are a minor see Implied Consent if there are no legal guardians present every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Absent further information, we really don't know much else other than the fact the lady in question just wanted them to leave her the fuck alone, yes?

because they are trained to do so as FIRST RESPONDERS.

I am also betting there was an AMA signed at some point of this. And most non-trained people have no clue about the AMA. By the way, you can also AMA yourself out of the hospital... same conditions apply.

If nobody who is TRAINED established her LOC, then there is a serious breach of professional standards.

And by the way, most people don't know what they are seeing when for example and EMS person hands a clipboard to a person at a scene.

Im a bit hard headed about signing forms that people shove in front of me, since every time you sign your name, you are giving up something (i.e. thats why they want you to sign)

Assuming they answer the 3 questions, but refuse to sign your ama contract, what happens?

Just curious more than anything.

quite simple

And it is not a contract, it is a form that says you are refusing medical care against medical advise.

For the record, AMAs are pretty standard in NORTH AMERICA, not just the US.

If there are no cops present, like in a medical call, I have had relatives sign them. Usually two people who are adults. My preferred choice is law enforcement personnel.

Enjoy your stay! :hi:

I'm thinking you're a pepperoni kind of guy.

You don't want "some government bureaucrat getting between you and your doctor" right?

Have you ever heard of shock before? Something tells me the answer is no.

with a tree when he and his brother were cutting firewood.

They went about their work and then Dale passed away that night in his sleep from a ruptured spleen (and only in early 40s, a robust and muscular man).

:hugs:

She said her head didn't even hurt. She went home, went to bed, got up the next morning and pulled out of her driveway to go to work. She got a few feet down the road, passed out, hit a tree and ended up in the hospital. She had a head injury.

I gave everybody in the family a list of signs and symptoms and told them, even one of these appears to the ER we go.

I went to see the doctor here in San Diego 3 days later... with racoon's eyes, usually a bad sign... well, I managed to bruise the living daylights out of my nose... and my nose never, ever hurt, even a little.

Now admittedly if I had gone to the ER... they would have had to do a slew of tests... but I still insisted on getting that medical checkup.



And I know how lucky I was by the way.

On the funny side of the story though, this is exactly when H1N1 started in Mexico City, so going to the ER might not have been a good idea, for other reasons. I still got it (ok most likely) three months later in San Diego.

He felt fine .... until he keeled over and died from the ruptured aorta.

If my boyfriend ever goes back to doing CAT Scan call, I won't bitch about the dummies needing CATs in the middle of the night from seemingly minor head injuries. Especially after what happend to Lian Nieeson's wife Natasha Richardson.

I am sorry for your friend, and Natasha Richardson should have been a hell of a wakeup call to people.

And darn it that happened in Canada, where I am sure the insurance never crossed the EMTs lips.

As I said above, now that I thought about it, the patients who asked that question regularly in Tijuana were our North American Tourists... not the locals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6358132&mesg_id=6365195

#93 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6358132&mesg_id=6361738

#57 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6358132&mesg_id=6359159

but by the next day, I was purple all over from seatbelt bruises and my abdominal muscles hurt so badly that I had to figure out new ways to get out of bed (roll to the edge and sit up sideways), stand up out of a chair (use the arms of the chair for support), etc.

It was three months before I could go back to the gym.

(The hospital had checked me out the night before and determined that I had no internal bleeding or anything else they could actually do anything about.)

to appear to be so lacking in empathy? People can have head injuries, back injuries and internal bleeding and not realize it. Not to mention that she was most likely in shock and had not even taken in what had happened to her. She needed to be checked out. Do you think she has a right to walk away and maybe die? Do you think her life or any life is worth only $500? If so, what dollar value do you put on a human life. Remember this would include your own. You could easily find yourself in a similar situation one day and if you do, I hope you find a person with some compassion who will help you more than you want help for this woman. No matter how many times something bad happens to people it doesn't make it all right. If you line up eight people and shoot them dead, does it make it somehow less tragic than if you only shoot one person? Fallacious logic.

attention. I think every person should be afforded that same right. As to what her 'life' is worth, that's not for me to say...there are people who aren't worth 3 cents...do you dispute that? If the person is conscious and able to decline medical treatment let alone an unwanted expensive ride in a meat wagon, I say she or he should have EVERY RIGHT to tell them to shove off. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Do you really believe that? If so, :wow:

As horrible as your "projection" is....I doubt many people here would call you (or anyone else) "worthless", as you so glibly do.

EVERYONE is VALUABLE. If you can't "see" that, you've got a real problem.

I've spent the last seven years working with kids and families in the dependency system. I've seen abuse and depravity on levels that very nearly defy comprehension. And I've seen the victims of that behavior struggle to overcome what it's done to them.

Find me the VALUABLE in the child rapist. Find me the valuable in the husband who- repeatedly- beats the living shit out of his wife.
Find me the value in the parents who pimp out their 6 year old...4 year old...for drug money. Find me the value in the parent who adopts a baby and has some buddies over to celebrate her second birthday with a gang bang in the basement.

Tip of the iceberg, those examples. Tip of the iceberg.

I just can't find any value in people who do those kind of things.


edited for a less combative tone

we took him to the hospital since he managed to get shot in the leg during a prison riot.

He was convicted of child abuse and rape.

You tell me that I should have let him just bleed out?

I don't know about you, but I couldn't do that, for many reaosns.

You may despise these folks, and trust me, I don't like them either, but if any of these guys (more rarely gals) becomes my patient, here is this word called Empathy... go look it up in a dictionary. That is what Professionals do.

Oh and he was actually not the worst of the worst either.

agree that professionalism requires that we work with everyone. If I was in your shoes I'd have provided care as well. I give you credit for doing so and I think it speaks volumes about your character and "goodness"- but it doesn't change my opinion that the child rapist is worthless.

We provide care regardless of the value- or lack thereof- of the recipient.

Only my .02, of course, YMMV.

People have no intrinsic worth to you and exist only in the abstract. Of course people have a right to refuse medical treatment or transit, but money should not have to be the reason. As to someone who might be in shock and not realize that they are injured or the extent of the injury, I think they should be given the time to assess what has happened to them and decide what to do when their brains have not been slammed around their craniums. Dying later is not, I think what most people would want. But then, as you have made clear twice, that does not matter to you.

I do dispute that there is a disparate value for people's lives. Who makes that decision? Who decides what someone is worth? Do you do that? If you do, what if someone else decides that you are only worth three cents? Do you meekly agree and lie down and die for them?

I don't know your values or what you contribute to others, but I do feel sorry for you. It may be because a post has no tone, but you come off as very intolerant and rigid. We share our lives and our world with many different types of people and not all of them can, our should, live up to standards others set for them. Only robots walk in lock step and value conformity and lack of empathy as a way to achieve a productive and happy life.

and that includes to "progressives".

So when you are throwing around this kind of talk, include "progressives" also, because they show NO INTEREST in righting the situation that homeless people exist in, and, in fact, go on Air America and slam homeless people with false crap.

We are the worthless of this society.

And it matters not.

are trying to tell me. When I say "people" it means people of all political and economic stripes. Why would you think that homeless people don't matter to me? Did I post to that effect or say anything at all about the homeless? If I did, I would appreciate you telling me what it was.

It is hard to communicate this way by post. I write what I mean and you perceive it through your own experiences. If you lump people into groups and then say that everyone in your preconceived group thinks and feels what you project on to them you are closing a door to communication, not opening it.

How do you know what I think or feel about anything? You haven't asked me, you have told me, and you are not correct. How do you know what I have or have not done to try to help homeless people either one on one as I encounter them or through other avenues. You don't know. You are assuming based on what you have experienced in your own life.

I do not think people who are homeless are worthless. In this country, at this time, many of us are one or two paychecks away from losing everything. As I have posted before, I nominally have a home, but the bank owns it through a mortgage. I have Multiple Sclerosis and sometimes have to use a wheelchair if I go into exacerbation I don't have a car and cannot get around easily on my own. I have other medical costs which I really can't afford, so I have to skip them. My husband nearly died last year of MRSA and his body is so badly damaged that he still has to spend large spans of time in a hospital bed. We are overdrawn at the bank and are beginning to have trouble buying food and medications. I am not telling you this because I am sucking for pity. I don't need it and I don't think it would enhance my situation. I am telling you to dispel any notion you have that I am a well off, complacent, uncaring person who doesn't think or care about what other people suffer. I do care. If people don't care about each other and reach out to help each other, then what is the point?

Neither of us have any safety nets anymore. They have all been destroyed by the Bush fiscal policies. I'm sure you have checked out what assistance is available to you where you are. You strike me as both intelligent and resourceful. If I can be of any assistance with research or help you out by gathering information, I would be happy to do it. It is about the only way I could assist you from a distance, if assistance is what you want or need. In the meantime don't accept the prejudices people try to put onto you. It is hard not to a lot of the time. When I have to use my wheelchair or tell people the name of my illness, they tend to look through me or talk to me like I'm retarded. It used to bother the Hell out of me, but I got used to it and life went on. I'm not telling you that you have to get used to anything, this is just my cost of living I'm talking about. I hope your life gets better and that you can see your own worth and value despite the negativity that is directed toward you due to the circumstances of your life. I hope you get enough to eat and have a safe place to sleep and that you can get medical care if you need it. I want the same thing for homeless people that I want for anyone. Food, shelter, and health care which I think are everyones basic rights, and a life free from fear and deprivation.

and 5 years later I developed a sharp pain in my neck.

I have a pinched nerve caused by a whip lash injury I got in that accident. It is excrutiatingly painful and debilitating.

And I walked away from a car accident because I didn't think I was hurt.

up in that gully FAST.

That was over fifteen years ago. Next time I go to the doc I will bring it up. Yep you guessed it.

Every so often it is just ... painful.

By the way I didn't do any damage to the patient, my other fear, and the family was so damn grateful, they realized the kind of risks taken to get their SO out, alive. They insisted on buying dinner to me and my crew.

One of the few times people thanked us.

:-)

People don't realize how badly hurt they can be in an accident, or a bad lift that seems not to hurt,

I don't understand your point here...

Just illustrating that sometimes injuries aren't apparent at the time of the accident. I have a life long health condition for which there is no cure and it could have been avoided if I had been checked by a doctor and received treatment at the time of my accident.

:-)

I hope they were nice to you...

in their care at the time...

and be professional. You never, ever know what they can hear, or know... even in a deep comma.

I am glad they did their job in a professional manner.

as my daughter described powder white, but I do recall most of the ride and they were definately proffessional and I do recall trying not to be so upset before not recalling anyting...

Hugs

took honey to a movie 1 year, 19 days, 4 hours ago (but whose counting?) when a drunk hit us, running a red at 60mph, through a red light, while she was blowing a 0.189 blood alcohol level.

we barely survived. treatments are still continuing.

and don't get me started on DUIs, cell phones and texting... same thing different day IMO

Glad everyone is okay for now.

and measure the distance. :crazy:

I'm a delivery truck driver and I see this stuff almost every day. People follow too closely sometimes. You said you were one car length behind at freeway speed, so maybe 10-12 feet. That's really tight, maybe it was more than one car length.

Your roadside actions were right on, and I commend you for that. Seems like you did the right thing.

To be fair, I took the defensive driving course three times before I got it right.

Glad everyone is okay.

Thanks for the explanation.

The point I was trying to make seems lost. It's not about my driving skills or whether the lady had the right to refuse an ambulance. I was just sad that her first concern seemed to be the cost of the ambulance.

:)

to live in a city where defensive driving is possible. In many places it simply is no longer practical and all you can really do is grit your teeth and hope the powers that be saw fit to give you fast enough reflexes and a little good luck

to avoid a dangerous situation.

was all that well thought out.

if she had been in any other country?

question given that her car was totaled.

You LIKE to live dangerously?

Please, don't drive on the same highways as those of us who actually drive sensibly!

Take your pick.
:D

become quite popular.

Silly me... I can't shake the habit of being honest.

What a dope I be.....

but it's fiction. :D There's no record of any such accident on any Kansas interstate for the last 2 days.

spent all their time looking of the validity of du posts..intriguing....thankfully such peaking at places other than du was beyond boring...obviously du is much more interesting to hang around in...

If you want to call me a liar, go ahead. I've got a few choice names for you.

a very poor disrupter who will not be with us much longer.

on why you should be allowed to decide if you make medical care to this?

Free clue... some accidents are NOT reported into the Highway Patrol's records, even the bad ones.

Now what flavor do you want your pizza

LOL!

I drive into MO to go to work. Matt needs to check that state's records too.

He should have plenty of time while he enjoys his pizza. :hi:

I have few doubts you yourself were unable to locate the appropriate records....

that aren't true.... to make their point.

NOW I understand it, and feel ever so much better.

Maybe cheese?

I didn't have time to put any distance between us before she spun out of control.

Now you can take your judgmental attitude and put it where the sun don't shine :)

it's against the law. Having been rear-ended recently, you can bet that I'm sick of this kind of dangerous behavior.

As for "judgemental"---take a good look in the mirror. YOU'RE the one who didn't write the complete story, if that is, indeed, what happened.

YOUR language is certainly not the spirit of the rules of DU, is it?

Now get off your high horse.

When on a freeway, if I maintain the appropriate distance between myself and the auto in front of me, another car(s) will simply enter the unoccupied free space. If I slow down and allow the appropriate spacing again, the same will happen over and over again.

You will never get anywhere trying to maintain proper distance between yourself and the car in front of you. People will zip around you, slice in front of you, block you from moving into the next lane, etc.

:wtf:

Atlantans are generally the most gracious, friendly and generous people you will meet. But you put one behind the wheel of a car and suddenly they are all Bill Elliott.

It's weird.

Until I get a bill for $800 to transport me 1 mile to the ER.

And yes, I'm insured, but happened to be out of network when I thought I was having a stroke. My bad.

the issue is not that you did the right thing, get EMS... but that they should not be charged, period...

after another car ran up on it and almost turned itself over it was going so fast.....it's fucking scary out there.

i'm in nashville, tn and the drivers and aggressive and rude

turn signals are nearly non existent

red lights are run constantly

you have to drive totally defensively

was driving parents to my sis's house. I had a catastrophic failure of the front driver's side tire. I literally fought the car, to avoid it going over, tumbling et al. and brought it from freeway speed to the emergency lane.

I need to replace that tire. But that is the worst tire that this can happen at.

Yep, that emergency vehicle operator training paid off... all we got were some frayed nerves, and dad really never got it, just how dangerous this was. He never did.

I am glad not to have added to the damn statistics though.

Matt will think you are making it up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6358132&mesg_id=6359009

Tore up my shoulder pretty good. The Fire Chief ordered me to go to the hospital in an ambulance. I sat in the jump seat. Received absolutely no treatment and only a pulse oximetry reading as an assessment. The trip to the hospital was less than a mile. I walked out of the ambulance into the ER unassisted. The bill was $1200.00. I can't blame her a bit.

David

People say anything in that condition.

in screening for that at the scene. That happened to my friend. He refused an ambulance because he was still in survival mode, took a cab home and wound up in the hospital the same night.

I was #2 car in a pile up on the freeway (car behind me pushed me forward) and my car was totaled. I went into some kind of shock and also took a cab home because nobody noticed. (The only thing the cop asked for was my reginstration! But, he was as young as I was so, no harm, foul.) I was also 4 mos. pregnant at the time. TG, all I had the next day was awful whiplash.

The county ambulances during an emergency are always free. Taken an ambulance from one hospital to another? That is when they get you.

I ended up in the hospital once and after they got me stabilized they needed to drive me 300 yards across campus to another facility. Same complex...they sent me a bill for over $500.00 for that jaunt.I refused to pay it and they never really hassled me about it.

Sadly, this isn't uncommon at all. I've known a LOT of people to be in scrapes and dings and car/bike collisions and fenderbenders and worse, and beg bystanders NOT to call an ambulance because they don't have health insupance. :(

I hope she is okay, it must have been quite an experience from your end as well.

Remember, drive safe cause those MO drivers are nutz....:D :hi:

women drivers. :evilgrin:

but the fact that she worried about the cost is ridiculous, another example of why we need to fix healthcare! My sister went to a party in NYC, had a glass of wine and fainted due to low blood pressure. Someone called an ambulance and it was like $600. She has no insurance and is poor...she'll never drink wine again (too expensive).

Republican run health insurance leeches.

She said she was fine and not injured.

She died in her sleep that night, having ruptured her spleen in the accident.

She bled to death.

I was in a rollover accident 4 years ago. The police called an ambulance to transport me to the ER. My insurance provider, Humana, refused to pay for the ambulance because they weren't an authorized provider. Had they taken me to the wrong hospital, I would have been stuck with that bill too.

Have they stopped? Maybe I need to look at my policy.

I know ours does, because it is very extensive, but not all are.

My medical will also cover it.

are covered as well.

We have kept ours as high as we have even on a 15 year vehicle, precisely because of that reason.

Any work they do to you (oxygen line, IV) will also be assessed.

I know this because I am not insured.

proud2BlibKansan

When I totaled my second car, an Nissan Cherry 1984 model, in a accident in 1998, my last concern was if I had to pay for the ambulance, who by the way was on scene in few minutes even that the hospital is some 20-30km from where I was.. They had to speed all sorts of speed limits to get so fast to the scene.. I was able to walk over to the ambulance, after getting the alco test, to be sure that I wasn't intoxicated and so on by the Police, who by the way was polite and kind to me all the way. And was driven to the hospital, and had all type of checks included some Xray, Cat-scan and many other test.. And of course a lot of concerned nurses who asked if I was Okay, and if I needed something... In the end I was discharged in the evening, and was back home.. And was also followed up for my back pine, because i got a little trouble with the back for a while in the accident..

I can also tell about for some years ago when my stomage was getting me into some health problem and I near collapsed at work, was driven to hospital by my boss by the way. And after they got a blood sample of me, I was instantly going to the emergency room, with the "Rolls Royce" treatment.. I doubt I have had that many tubes on my since I was born premature in 1976.. But anyway, for the week long treatment, and more test than I am sure of, I was free to go home, after given some advices what to eat, and what not to eat - the list over food to be carefully and not to eat was bigger than the list allowed to eat... And for all this.. No charge for the hospitalization.. Nothing, nada, zip

And yes, I get well, even that I have to be carefull with the spicy stuff I love..

For all this i was not paying ONE cent wort telling... BUt of course I live also in a country where public founded hospitals, is mandatory, and where we pay the taxes needed to have "free" hospital when needed... We might pay little more taxes than you do in US, but just this one stories, by all my stories going to the hospital is wort telling because it more or less prove that the "public option" the Administration of mr Barack Obama want for you is good and worth fighting for.. Even that I doubt that you might get that type of "full coverage" as we do

To me, just the idea of fighting over a "public option" who many in US sound like a bad idea and "socialism" and pure communism is just madness.. Why this lying, telling wrong stories and so one, for the people who doesn't like the idea of an public option when i come to health care.. In most european country - even the poor ones whose budget for health care is limited, the idea of public health care, and more or less "free" hospitalization when necessary is nothing to discuss, it is just a fact of life

And, in US a woman who totaled her car, is more concerned with the idea of paying for her ambulance than the fact that she just got out of a car who is a total Wreck...

Diclotican

yet always at the scene of the latest tombstone...Things that make you go 'hmmm...':eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Are you the same ruby that was tombstoned a couple of days ago? And what does this have to do with "liberality", whatever that is ??