Do Guns at Political Events Disturb You? Then Consider Skipping Arizona for Now.

From Arthur Frommer:

I am not yet certain whether I would advocate a travel boycott by others of the state of Arizona; I want to learn more about Arizona's gun laws and how they compare with those of other states. But I am shocked beyond measure by reports that earlier this week, nearly a dozen persons, including one with an assault rifle strapped about his shoulders and others with pistols in their hands or holsters, were openly congregating outside a hall at which President Obama was speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

For myself, without yet suggesting that others follow me in an open boycott, I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks and as a means of political protest. I not only believe such practices are a threat to the future of our democracy, but I am firmly convinced that they would also endanger my own personal safety there. And therefore I will cancel any plans to vacation or otherwise visit in Arizona until I learn more. And I will begin thinking about whether tourists should safeguard themselves by avoiding stays in Arizona.

According to the Phoenix, Arizona, police, people with guns including assault rifles do not need permits in Arizona, but can simply carry such weapons with them, openly and brazenly, when they gather to protest a speaker at a public event. The police also acknowledge that about a dozen people carrying guns, including one with an AR-15 assault rifle, milled about outside the event at which President Obama spoke.

I would feel as I do regardless of the political identity of the speaker whom these thugs attempted to intimidate. The continued tolerance of extremists carrying guns is a frightening development which strikes at the heart of the political process and endangers the ability to carry out a reasoned debate. Is there any responsible citizen of the United States who believes that people should carry guns to a public debate or speech? If Ronald Reagan were delivering a political talk in Phoenix, Arizona, would they have felt it was proper for protestors with guns to mill about outside the hall from which he would leave?
http://www.frommers.com/blog/?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a3ec3ac40-db8a-4d10-a884-acf9ccad0879Post%3acad21037-04b6-415b-b41b-4838402e1e4e&plckCommentSortOrder=TimeStampAscending

Frommer is a major travel writer.

This would be a good way to nail some of these loons. If wingnuts feel free to strap on their guns, then point out that these might not be the safest places to visit. What if there was a protest at the Grand Canyon by environmentalists, and the wingnuts might come with guns on? The tourism people would notice a campaign like this.

Yes, I know there are concealed carry laws. However, these are places where truly scary people are getting out of hand using the 2nd amendment. They are doing it for intimidation.

BTW Frommer walks the walk:
Frommer is the host of his own radio show on travel which is syndicated to over 100 stations across the United States; it is syndicated by the WOR Radio Network. Frommer had left his show for nearly ten years, vowing never to work at a station that employed Bob Grant, but returned after Grant retired from the station in 2006.

Google Bud Grant.

My brother and I stopped at a "Taco Bell" to grab a quick lunch. I looked over to another table to see a civilian guy (not an ID'd police officer) sporting a HUGE handgun strapped to a leather holster on his hip. I quipped to my brother, "Damn! This truly is the wild wild west." My brother explained the "open carry" laws in Arizona.

We have similar laws here in Virginia, but I haven't every tripped over a person who was open carrying in a public place since.

Go figure. :geek:

Also saw several incidents of gun totin asses arguing with managers of various retail and restruant businesses about the guns. Dim bulbs would argue their Constitutional Rights and deny the rights of property owners to say 'no, you can't carry on MY property.'

Twice, I saw off duty cops who worked as security for big department store have to call in on duty back up to assist in removing 'customer' with gun who had been told to put it in their vehicle if they wanted to shop there. One of those times, us managers had to remove employees from the area as the argument was getting so dangerously vehement that security feared a gun fight was about to break out.

While I have also carried a gun from time to time (not on other people's property without their approval, and because I spent a LOT of time alone out in the desert) I noticed the chronic open carry guys were always about THEIR rights and completely ignorant of the fact that others had rights too. Saw too many of them think they could come onto other's property with their guns even when property owners said no.

Always about THEIR rights. Used to really piss me off. I moved to Tucson from Montana, and was amazed at how self centered the AZ gun guys could be.

Part of the responsibility of a gun owner is knowing the law and every state (IIRC) allows private property to be a "prohibited location" if the property owner wants.

In some states it is a specific crime to carry into a prohibited location. In other states it is felony trespassing to not leave when asked.

It was not pretty. Nasty ego on that one.

it reminds me of something you'd see in news clips from Iraq or or the Middle East.

Disturbing trend, if you ask me.

make it a little less desirable for people to do so. Hit the states in their pocketbooks.

That's one language that is spoken universally.

great - now we're like the fucking warlords!!!

all hail the mighty SCARED gun nuts penis gun!!!

sickening...

open carry. I know that VA allows such actions but the folks up in the "commie northern counties" (according to McCain's brother) are THOUGHTFUL about not creeping people out. And yes, I know many gun owners and collectors as I am a veteran and many of us own guns.

In increasing rural areas it makes sense to open carry but not IMO, in heavily populated areas ... that's a gunfight waiting to happen.

Even our American born ancestors collected guns in their towns before large cattle drives rode in. Why? Booze and heavily populated areas are not venues for open carry. :(

I also get updates as to what little areas are harassing gun carriers. Falls Church is well known for making laws that are in direct conflict with state laws. So we sue them. Newport News has paid a lot of money for consistently harassing 1 guy who open carries. 20 guys with guns leave a meeting, one guy is stopped by the police before he makes it to where he is going. Which guy? The only black guy. Stopped for the 3rd time. How many of the white guys with guns get stopped? None.

But out here in the country we just carry our guns and nobody gives a crap. Most people don't even notice.

And how many times has it caused this famous "potential gun fight"? Never. If it has ever happened even once, I never heard of it, and I hear about that kind of stuff.
I heard about the cops in Manassas who came in and harasses some people who were open carrying. They became very quiet with the "he said, she said" after we gave them a FOI request. Turns out they were lying about who complained.

By the way, just the other day in Richmond a guy open carrying his colt single action put 2 or 3 bullets in a convenience store robber who said he was going to kill everybody in the store.

open carry and I hope they do. This is NOT the wild west and people who have JUSTIFICATION to be armed can easily score a concealed carry permit.

"Don't take your gun to town son. Don't take your gun to town." :evilgrin:

Sure it's your right to "open carry" in VA, but it's also the private business owners' right to deny you entrance.

God bless America. :patriot:

We are welcomed at the restaurants we go to. We have a large group and we make sure we are not cheap and we tip well.
The fact that some of the places we go to serve alcohol too, means we all have to open carry.
The business owners are fond of us. We spend money and are easy to get along with.

No matter how many people try to push this bullshit wild west fairytale, it still will be nothing but a story that isn't true. Nonsense.
Feel free to ask me what actually does happen when people carry guns in the open. I've actually been there, I can tell you. Nothing.

Except for the occasional person who pisses in their own pants because they see a gun.

I hope that you are not successful in swaying too many large retailers.

I don't "piss my pants" because I own guns. I just don't feel a need to strap a handgun to my hip when I go out and about in my home area. Now, when we traipse off to go target shooting in the unpopulated - barren desert, that is a different story. People who live in rural areas, have an excellent position ... well understandable position to carry guns because law enforcement is not immediately available.

Perhaps I have nothing to prove? Like seeing old men in sports cars OR regular guys in Ford 350 trucks with no dust or indicators of labor/use, many of us women (some who own guns) DO wonder if there's some COMPENSATION going on? :evilgrin:

"If we allow people to carry there will be blood in the streets.

If we allow gays to get married it will ruin our way of life.

If we give people free health we will have to give them free food and housing.

I don't need a gun because the police are right there to protect me."


You just refuse to think.


BTW There is a long list of people who live in the Northern Virgina are who have been damaged or killed by bad guys.
An army girl I know was attacked the other day on one of those walking paths in Roslyn, the training she had went out the window, but she managed to run for her life. She'll do better next time. And an Army Ranger friend of my got a broken arm when he was attacked up there by MS-13 in Alexandria.
Not well know is the list of people who went home ok because they brought their gun. On that list is a girl I know who teaches stick fighting. A bunch of guys tried to make her get in their car at the 7-11 in Manassas.

Of course I'm sure you do know all about the guy in Leesburg who was killed while walking around in his expensive subdivision. And the couple in Fairfax who were killed in their house when they came back from lunch to find a day laborer raping their 14 year old daughter.Mom, dad, and daughter all killed.
Cops will protect you? Sure.:eyes:

The blog seems to indicate this is an AZ unique event.



Looks like the following allow Open Carry with no permit:
NV, AZ, ID, MT, NM, SD, WY, NM, KY, VA, VT

Looks like the following allow Open Carry with a permit (likely same permit as conceal carry):
UT, UT, ND, IA, MS, GA, TN, IN, MA, CT, RI, NJ, MD

If you are interested about your state.
http:/www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html

Click on your state on the map for local info.

designation of Kansas and Nebraska apparently means that open carry is permissible if not prohibited by county or city code. Some of the larger cities in KS and NE have prohibitions regarding open carry but it is permissible most places.

BTW: your link http://www.democraticunderground.com/www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html don't work...it's http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html

So far thats mostly what its been at political events.

No one had an assault rifle as they are Title II weapons covered under the National Firearms Act of 1934. If one is going to carp about something, they ought to make a minimal effort in getting the nomenclature correct.

"As the map shows, seven states and the District of Columbia fully prohibit the open carry of firearms. Additionally, there are eleven states which permit open carry without requiring the citizen to apply for any permit or license."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry

tucked away where it was not noticed.

I just would not like to be around so many republicans at once, and I don't like their choices of Senators.

mark

Pretty soon the entire deomcratic party will just be SITTING AT HOME if we do THAT!!!!!