By nearly any measure, this country has serious problems.

At every turn for the last 40 years or so, progressives have been oppressed and suppressed by the right, exploited by the centrists and given no real voice in governing America, despite history having shown progressives to have been correct about nearly everything from foreign policy to the economy to the environment. The repukes truly hate us; the "democrats" are certainly no friends of progressives (except every four years for a few months during the primaries).

Some blame republicans; some blame "the rich"; some blame an amorphous "PTB." Boogeymen abound.


Who do *you* think is "the enemy numero uno" of progressivism?

and then, it's all us. we have not created a weapon to deflect

What is this brilliance called "progressives"? What do they stand for? What do they believe?

May you enjoy yours soon.

:evilgrin:

Enjoy your stay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Hope that answers all your questions.

and matching ties!



Tombstone pizza delivers the RDA of essential vitamins and minerals in a convenient 15-pie serving.

Thank you for playing.

We aren't hungry enough, oppressed enough, cold enough to demand progressive principles. We aren't organized enough to sell our beliefs to more Americans. We aren't impassioned enough to make something happen.

The Majority of Americans, when polled on the major issues fall somewhere around Dennis Kucinich.

Here is what the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats AND Republicans) want from OUR government!
This compilation is from 2005!

There is no doubt that Obama is "better" than Bush. But, is he, and what he represents, the status quo of a corrupt system, what we want? I think not.

When I'm not exhausted from trying to get by in this world, I'm reasonably comfortable and want to relax instead of get out and do something....

sad

the worship of this man's corpse is plaguing us still :grr:

The social upheaval of people taking back their power in that decade scared the shit out of the people that matter (the parasites).

We almost understood that it does not take any "universal understanding" to destroy their system, merely a critical mass (15% - 20%?) to simply stop participating. The relatively liberal form of government we had is/was to unreliable for their security. So, they decided to head for more compliant societies.

Their message is well thought out so as to be effective, it is spread quickly, and it becomes omnipresent. We have nothing at all comparable.

In my humble opinion, the number one problem dividing progressives from conservatives is fear - plain and simple.

Conservatives fear god, fear gays, fear brown people, fear immigrants, fear other countries, fear education, fear women, fear... well, just about everything. Ever see a scared animal? That's how Republicans act, and fight, 24/7.

We don't fear the way they do. We don't use it to motivate people the way they do. Instead, we try to pander to the better angels - we act and try to persuade on issues based on the greater good for all involved. Which is nice and all, but it doesn't quell fear and it doesn't sway the opinions of someone that doesn't care and won't care about other people. When one person dies or is impoverished, it's a tragedy for us, it's collateral damage or a sacrifice for them. We don't win that battle and we never will because human beings are selfish creatures by nature.

Take a look at the health care debate. We keep saying that we need to insure the millions of Americans that aren't covered and that health care is a right - which by all means is correct. We can't seem to understand that while WE care about it for those reasons, most other people don't give a flying fuck about the uninsured, unless they're one of them. It's insane to use this as the major argument when there are literally dozens more that would resonate with a lot of people - saving money, reducing premiums, not having to battle corrupt insurance companies, increased productivity that it would create - but we use them so sparingly that they get completely lost. In fact, if I were running this campaign, I'd have the insurance companies front and center as Public Enemy #1, to the point where you wouldn't know where Bernie Madoff ends and Blue Cross/Blue Shield begins. That's a winning argument - that's something that EVERYONE cares about, not just us.

Instead, look at the use of fear on the right on this issue: death panels, rationing health care, illegal immigrants flooding into our nation for free care... it doesn't end, and frankly, it's working.

Now, I'm not saying we should stoop to this level or that it's the only way to go. What we do need to do is step outside ourselves and stop telling people why WE care about something and start telling people why THEY should care about it. That's what's really behind the messaging of the Republicans - they use death panels as an argument because they know no one really cares about their REAL motivation: money and greed. It's not the hate that wins - it's reaching people where they are that does. Fear just happens to be an outstanding motivator.

Progressives are not a majority and can not accomplish anything as their own party, so they join in with the Democrats. You get upset because every Democrat does not agree with everything you say, so you ALWAYS threaten to not support or even leave. You believe you are almost always correct, almost never wrong and everybody should do and act as you say.

You do not join a team and expect everybody to automatically support everything you say and believe in. Especially if your views are not the majority views held.
No, instead, you join a team, respect ALL your teammates and work TOGETHER in order to accomplish the goals ALL are satisfied with.
Democrats ARE your friends and respect would allow you to see that.

I'd add the threats don't resonate because most Democrats in leadership have learned that it's easier to appease moderates than it is to appease the progressives. If you can't win with someone, why bother trying?

preachy centrist

you guys are a plurality, but you can't make up your minds WTF you believe in. Apparently nothing.

mainstream of America. This puts us in position of Inferiority
and affects how we present and defend ourselves.

right after the idiot-know-nothing-believe-less "centrists." The extreme right trails in a distant third, yet they have clawed their way into political influence in a way the left has not done for two generations now.

in america.
willful ignorance is perhaps the largest obstacle that progressives must overcome if their hopes for america are to be realized.
willful ignorance and perhaps mis-information coupled with a lack of critical thinking skills are hard to battle.
who benefits when we are ignorant?
imo corporations are often behind those who attempt to thwart positive social and economic growth. corporate person-hood and all its ramifications have continually undercut nearly everything that progressives have worked to achieve.
corporations are avaricious and since the success of progressive policies is usually measured by an increase in general prosperity (more material goods for individuals) progressive legislation threatens the corporation's ability to accrue all the wealth.
corporations as we know them would not exist except for the way we practice capitalism in the united states. this provides the best (worst) example of "american exceptionalism". our form of capitalism sponsors hateful behavior among individuals and groups.
we must compete for continually more and more scarce resources and there are aspects of our system, such as a lack of universal health care coverage, and other holes in the social safety net, which require that we store up more than what we need to survive on a daily basis.
we need to have "more" because we know that we won't survive "tough times" if we don't have some sort of a nest egg.
thus american people can not afford to be generous. even if we could afford it we wouldn't because we have been taught to hate the poor. our mantra is that poverty is a choice, that people are poor because they are lazy or they made some bad decisions and are justly poor as a result. even god condemns the poor (not really my belief but is for a preponderance of american xians).
by the way, organized religions are not friends of progressive policy either. when times are good and people are better educated church attendance goes down.
tough times sponsor fear and uncertainty, many in these circumstances seek comfort in the familiar and seek absolute authority figures for protection.
which individuals or groups benefit when times are tough for people?
republicans are better at providing authority figures than democrats (wishy-washy inclusive types that they are).
so we live in a society where all of the "enemies" of progressivism listed by all the posters above continue to thrive.
according to the wiki definition of progressives, provided by an earlier post, the opposite of progressive is conservative.
so one can assume that conservative politics is the main enemy of progressive politics. it would then stand to follow that it was conservatives who sponsored mis-information, ignorance, divisive economic policies, etc. and the social/economic circumstances that produce the vocal opponents of health care coverage reform (progressive legislation) showing up at town hall meetings today.

edited to include missing word.

whose agenda do they pursue? Their destructive policies clearly serve someone's interest. Whose?

if only one person filled that roll conservatives would not have the power they wield.
i would say that the big kahuna is the international class of the uber-rich many, of whom are american. these are families and individuals who share economic and political interests, who are willing to spend lots of our money to insure that they get to remain the uber-rich.
the rest of us should easily recognize that these people and their agenda are our biggest enemy but most of us envy their positions and would do nothing to close the door on our own opportunities to get rich (rich, of course, for most of us comes no where near the wealth that these families control).
instead of the protestant work ethic motivating us (since hard work doesn't get anyone ahead anymore)we have adopted a lotto ethic.
i think social scientists would recognize that the cultural behavior now mimics what used to be the behavior of the poor and dispossessed. the prevailing attitude is dependent on the belief that luck will pull us through.
is it fair to call this subscription "the american dream"?


edited for punctuation

I'll buy that.

What role do corporations play in the scheme of things?

that protect the international uber-rich from ever having to have contact with, be fair toward, recognize as human, etc. the great unwashed of humanity while extracting the resources and vitality from those very same people.
the recognition of corporate-personhood may have transformed these defensive structures into actual vassals, i'm not sure.

We took away feudalism, so the filthy rich invented capitalism. We regulated robber barons, so the filthy rich invented corporations. We regulated corporations, so the filthy rich bought the entire political system and are madly reinstalling feudalism.

except that you left plantation economy out of the mix. it came between feudalism and capitalism and it is the model being reinstalled.
under feudalism, peasants had rights to the land where they were born and could not be dispossessed. they owed work service but the landlord owed them protection (and food on every feast day - there were 163 of these).
the plantation model provides no such rights to the workers. they are slaves.
corporations run the latifundia, where we all work, for the international uber-rich.

...the most extreme oppression and adversity.

But change? Now that's scary....

they have few resources to help them adapt.

without clean elections, can any progressive bill get passed?
:thumbsdown: