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Whale Wars helicopter pilot tells about the Japanese Harpooning the Minke Whale

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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:43 PM
Original message
Whale Wars helicopter pilot tells about the Japanese Harpooning the Minke Whale
By Phillip Zonkel
08/20/2009




LONG BEACH - Chris Aultman says it was one of the most horrific events he has ever seen. On Feb. 6, the 39-year-old Long Beach resident was piloting the helicopter for the eco-warriors Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, which fights international whaling, and witnessed a ship from the Japanese whaling fleet hunting an Antarctic minke whale in the Southern Ocean.

Watching helplessly, Aultman saw a crew member blast a harpoon into the 23-foot, 5-ton mammal, which frantically attempted to flee.

When the whale approached the ship's hull, another crew member shot the bleeding and thrashing whale at least six times in the head before it died.

The gruesome encounter, which Aultman says lasted 25 minutes and 16 seconds, was a shocking moment on last week's episode of the Animal Planet reality series "Whale Wars."

The show follows the Sea Shepherd crew - which attempts to interrupt the harvesting of 1,000 whales - and its battles against one of its adversaries, Japanese whaling fleets.

The series, in its second season, has its season finale at 9p.m. today.

Aultman didn't want to watch the hunting and killing of the minke whale, but he didn't have a choice, he says.

"I had to look at what we were filming. My responsibility is to keep the helicopter pointed at the subject so the cameraman can film it," said Aultman, who also doubles as Sea Shepherd's aviation director.

"I hope I never see it again," he said.
"Whale Wars" has been a whale of a hit for Animal Planet,

Japanese factory whaling ship the Nisshin Maru, right, hauls a newly caught minke whale up its slipway
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site204/2009/0820/20090820__C_PN21-SEASHEPARD+PC49AU1_300.JPG


Prior to his efforts in combating international whaling and joining the Sea Shepherd team, Aultman served for six years in the Marine Corps as a helicopter avionics technician from 1989 to 1995.


FULL ARTICLE
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_13172945

The final episode of this season's Whale Wars is on tonight, Friday, Animal Planet at 9 pm

Video of the whale being killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1b8YCxJiIc

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. It has become more and more difficult to watch
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, I had watching whales die, but hopefully it will encourage people
to help Sea Shepherd defeat the whalers.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
103. when will we finally BOYCOTT JAPANESE GOODS & SERVICES?
I will buy parts for my Honda Civic made ANYWHERE else but in Japan. How about you?

This is one way for us couch warriors to get back at Japan for their horrific slaughter.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Next campaign Watson will have a water cannon on the Steve Irwin plus
have Earthrace, the fastest boat in the world right now, for the next campaign. They need to come up with a strategy to take down the nets that prevent the stink bombs from hitting the deck and not puncture the small speed boats. Hopfully, they will have ear plugs or some device to offset the LRAD.
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. And they need some kind of air cannon to shoot the bottles at them high enough to go over the nets.
A man or woman throwing bottles at a 50-100' high net from a good distance just isn't going to work. They've got to come back hard against them next campaign.

Heavy duty ear plugs or sound muffling headsets, better tactics to deploy prop foulers, better equipment to launch butyric acid, LRAD's of their own, and overall better organization and leadership on the ships.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. seems like wrist rockets would do the trick -- maybe there's a reason why they're not
allowed to "shoot" the bottles.


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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I thought they were concerned about losing their registration is they did direct attacks from
the Steve Irwin.

The other thing to consider is that the Japanese are now fighting back and may have some new toys of their own. If the Steve Irwin gets prop fouled or damaged, its going to be a long trip back to civilization
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. We have the nukes.
But I'd settle for sinking the ship in the wee hours.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. That can play both ways. Didn't there used to be a vessel called the Rainbow Warrior?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Yep, and lots of people know
how to use a cutting torch under water. Or how to rig demo on a closed loop rebreather. just saying. does not take more than a book bag to put a ship out of action.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
163. Thank you for not taking my post literally.
You do make a good point.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:52 PM
Original message
If it escalates japan will be unwilling
to engage in any altercations with the australians. old disagreements.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. Australians? I was thinking between Watson and the Japanese
The multi boat tactics looked improvised and there were several missed opportunities to prop foul the Steve Irwin that were not taken during the Crazy Ivan episode. If the Japanese had thought through their tactics, the season might have had a dramatically different ending.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Japan is on its own.
it has everything to loose. If those guys ever got some professional help its game over. Right now they are monkeys fucking footballs. Given the correct resources, you have a game changer.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. Watson refrained for attacking directly from the Steve Irwin, but when
the whalers made hyper-aggressive actions against them that could have killed people, Paul said he had a right to defend his ship and crew, so he authorized the attacks from the decks of the Steve Irwin.

The Japanese have been lobbying the Dutch government to take away their flag from the Steve Irwin. Dutch law makes it difficult for them to take away their flag from the Steve Irwin because the Dutch don't view Sea Shepherd as a terrorist group. The Dutch government also publicly stated that they oppose whaling.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. I would hardly call the whalers actions hyper agressive.
If the Steve Irwin and the RIBs stay clear, no one is in any danger. Watson puts people in harms way, not the Japanese.

Watson rails about how he has to defend his ship and then whines when he just thinks his own tactics are going to be used against him. As I posted earlier, The Japanese missed a number of opportunities to take the Steve Irwin out and did nothing. If he gets even more aggressive, they may not make that same choice. 60 degree plus latitudes are no place for games, and a dead in the water Steve Irwin is a long way from help.

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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
141. All who sail with Watson know the risks and they publicly admit that
they are willing to die to save whales.

The whalers are the ones who tried to assassinate Watson last year. Lucky for him, he always wears a bullet proof vest.

The Japanese whalers are illegally hunting whales in the sanctuary. No one else will challenge them. I'm not physically fit to join his crew, but I send him a hefty donation every year that I can.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #141
151. The so called shooting of Watson was never backed up by any investigating agency.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. earthrace:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "An animated music video directed by the late Heath Ledger has had it debut on the web......
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 07:37 PM by Gabi Hayes
......The six-minute clip for Modest Mouse's song King Rat uses irony to make a statement against whaling.

Whales are seen in a commercial vessel "hunting" for humans, which they harpoon, club to death and skin, before turning them into cookies."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. This is a very powerful video. n/t
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. They pulled it from your link. Here's one that's working still:
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I think they need to redesign their prop fowlers too.
I think they should make them slightly shorter and weight the ends so that they cannot be easily removed with a pole. You'd have to put a float in the center though. I'm sure there are some smart engineering students out there who would have some great ideas!
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Or...weight the whole thing so it settles just a couple feet under the surface
with a GPS/epirb thing on it so they can locate it if it fails. The whalers wouldn't be able to find it (unless they knew about the locator device.
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Good idea!
They definitely need to redesign them so they have more of a success rate. I think that prop fowlers are a great idea, especially if the whalers are actively hunting whales. They can work quick.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Correct.
nylon melts around props as does steel and other metals. There are many options available to disable ships without injuring people.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. A covert operation is needed to disable the ships
If Japanese anti-whalers (if there is such a thing) can get on the whale ships as crew they can sabotage the engines, steering system, or other systems causing great mechanical difficulties. A massive boycott against Japan would be an attention getter, but I'm afraid most americans don't give a crap about marine mammals, or the degradation of the environment in general.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. When "The Cove" goes to DVD, there will be outrage.
Americans relate to smaller whales,ie, dolphins. These dolphins suffer for up to 30 hours before dying while the fishermen poke them and laugh.
I am going there next year, opossibly with an AK-47 :hide:
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Nisshun Maru would look so peaceful sitting at the bottom of her harbor.
Middle of the night, nobody aboard. Sneak on and open her up.

See how pretty it made The Willassen Senior?



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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. And eventually, over many years on the bottom, she might become a sort of reef.
A home for marine wildlife.


That would be very karmically beautiful. I will send out some prayers for that (and some donations to the Sea Shepherd.)
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. It would be beautiful.
Sometimes, maybe it just comes back to black masks and monkeywrenches.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. I like pirates.
Y'know, back in the 17th and 18th centuries, there were a lot of former "cargo" on slave ships who went on the account because the lifestyle there, while harsh, was SO much better than the alternative.

Bombs have their uses. The good use is on expensive killing equipment when there are no people around to be hurt. Is a whale's life worth more than a human's life? No, probably not, if we're at that point on the internet where that stupid question comes up


Is a whale's life worth more than a multi-million-dollar inanimate object?

Fuck YES it is, and if you took more than ten seconds to decide, step the fuck out of my life, please.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
105. +1
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. while watching this season
I often wished they were better organized and had a better ship..

but the last episode.. watching the whale get chased down, tire, get harpooned and shot again and again..

the bright red that flowed into the water.

It made me glad they were there at all, as disorganized the volunteer crew is. They were trying. And it mattered.

My son was working hard to hide his tears.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. i was trying not to get all emotionally involved in it -- trying to "watch" it from a distance...
just doesn't work that way. last week was PAINFUL.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I don't think it's the crew that's disorganized
Seems to me like it's the officers.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Its pretty poorly run and there is clearly a lot of playing to the cameras n/t
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 10:56 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. so WHAT?
yeah..especially those chickenshit whales


bleeding all over the Japaneses' nice machinery

can't they be more polite or something?

wtf is your problem?

never was a sig line more accurate
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Because amateurs make mistakes, mistakes at sea can kill people, especially in those latitudes n/t
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Most of the crew are volunteers and may not have much sailing experience
Sea Shepherd can't afford to pay them.

The only officer I had a problem with was the 1st officer that had sailed with Paul Watson for many years. He was a male chauvinist jerk. Glad he left.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. It was very hard to not cry at last week's episode
:cry:
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. Several lasers directed into the eyes of a harpooner might incapacitate him.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. A technology waiting for regulation..
that is is all i will say. I am sure there are plenty of ways to damage steerage and props without a highly columnated beam melting an eye ball.

Seem to recall massive damage to subs by accidental entanglement in fishing nets. Those are made of nylon. Wonder how steel line neutral buoyant would work?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. We already know it works on pilots
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Those are guys with green laser toys.
you can buy a tool that will run on 208 single phase 30 amp that is bit more powerful and operates in an invisible range. IE you dont see it, you just go blind.

There used to be a video they showed for safety class with a monkey and a melted cornea. Observe safe procedures.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Seen similar videos. Its was a real problem with targeting lasers to make them eye safe.
They are also wonderful at getting the Secret Service all excited.

Escalating the attacks on the Japanese vessels at some point will cost the SSCS its vessel registration. Watson understands what a problem that would be.

I also believe that the Japanese, having fended him off once, will try and do that again. It will be interesting to see what the arms race brings this year.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The best way to collapse a problem
is from within. two guys with 30 lbs of any commercial high explosive, some det cord, caps, a battery and a simple timer could fix that problem. Seen it rigged, not complex. ship sinks with a few 2 foot holes blown in the hull.

The race should be stopped in their home port by any method that does not include killing people. Including destroying the ship.

Better yet to saturate their airwaves, and sms with the overwhelming position that they are out of line. Let the population take care of it.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Watson or the Japanese?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. A vessel. not people.
whaling is pretty abhorrent.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Any butchering is. Cow, horse, pigs, chickens, and whales
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Exactly
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 09:43 AM by spiritual_gunfighter
My heart broke watching that, but my heart breaks when I watch the same kind of footage of factory farms. We live in a society where food is abundant and there are countless healthy alternatives to eating animals. I wish more people realized that.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
57. NO cows are raised on a farm..
whales are not. Cow herds are counted, whales are not. I eat meat and have no problem shooting game animals then eating them.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #57
153. An abattoir is never a pleasant place
That said, I remain an omnivore. I have cleaned and prepared creatures for food, both domesticated and wild (air, land , and aquatic)
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. You don't even need all that shit.
Start a massive psychological operations campaign in the towns where the ships are home-ported. Make it so the towns feel like they will lose revenue by being associated with the ships. Find the whalers home addresses and send letters to their wives that their husbands have been disloyal while away at sea. Gaslight the fuck out of these people on their home turf. Wouldn't be that hard. Leaflet campaigns, sabotage and disinfo on a massive scale. Make the towns tourist destinations for protesters and have the protesters be obnoxious as hell while they stay in town. There is a ton of other shit you could do to psyche them out. The night before a vessel is supposed to leave a port blast music at all hours of the night so nobody gets any sleep. Do this continuously and from several locations. If you have enough people, you can create total mayhem, the ensuing press would make it worse as it would amplify the issue.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. You must not know much about Japan and her people n/t
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Know enough to get under their skin.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Outside agitation & astroturfing will pull them together even tighter behind the whalers
While many do not eat whale today, they believe that Watson is getting away with violence that would not be tolerated were the whalers European/White. They see a much of this as thinly veiled racism as total disregard of their culture.
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tj2001 Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. See
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. So that means they are already agitated.
Solution is to turn up the heat even more.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #53
108. how about the Japanese racism against the highly intelligent whale race?
Just because they have blowholes and baleen does not mean they deserve to be slaughtered by the Japanese.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #108
155. You choose your terms poorly
and are equating whales with humans. It also does not address the Japanese perception of how they are being treated, especially given that the US is also a whaling nation.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #155
156. Arguably more advanced than humans. The Japanese gov. knows it, too.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #108
159. ...+
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #53
142. You sound like a Japanese whaler or a spokesperson for their industry
Only those favoring the Japanese whaling industry would say such nonsense.

Watson is hated by his native Canadian government for his work in exposing the brutal and senseless slaughter of baby seals in the Canadian maritaime provinces. He has helped drive the market for seal products almost into the ground. Sea Shepherd is also working with local law enforcement to protect the Galapagos Islands from poachers. He's in the Mediterranian Sea trying to protect fish there. He is also working to stop shark finning.

So your assertion that Watson is racist because he is willing to challenge Japanese whaling ships is BOGUS!!!

And the movie "The Cove", which details the brutal slaughter of dolphins by Japanese fishermen will do more to turn the world against Japan's fishing industry than Japanese propaganda by the likes of you. And since "Whale Wars" is one of Animal Planet's top rated shows, I suspect that Watson will be getting more help, not less. In fact next year, the fastest ship in the world, Earthrace, is joining Watson to hunt Japanese whaling ships and do what they can to sink the Japanese whaling industry.

The Japanese made adjustments to Sea Shepherd's previous tactics. Sea Shepherd will respond in kind.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #142
150. You need a course in basic reading comprehension
I said the Japanese perceive the lack of action over Watson's tactics as racist and that they believe it is part and parcel of a general lack of respect for their culture and traditions by Europeans/Americans. At no point did I call Watson a racist. The general lack of respect view is very widely held in Japan as is their belief that our heterogeneous culture and approach to things makes us less effective.

Watson was quite frustrated that the combination of defensive tools and aggressive action by the Japanese blocked effective and telegenic results. His hypocritical statements as to what was acceptable for him to do vice what the whalers could do in terms of tactics was truly amazing. Presumptively he will escalate and so will the Japanese. Hopefully his luck will continue and no one will be killed.

That those who oppose Watson are automatically supporters of whaling is the kind of thinking that would make birthers proud. Many oppose whaling and Watson at the same time.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #150
173. You sound like a birther, not me
You intentionally mis-characterize Sea Shepherd and the Japanese whalers. And yes you strongly implied that Watson was racist for challenging the Japanese and no other country. The Japanese hunt whales in a sanctuary and in Australian waters, so Watson has a right to challenge them. The Japanese have a right to counter but no right to put peoples lives in danger. Their nets were a non-violent counter to one of Sea Shepherds attacks but using their boats aggressively did put peoples lives in danger and of course shooting Watson was a violent attempt to get rid of him. Yes, he was shot at last year and has received death threats, which is why he wheres a bullet proof vest.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. Birthers are characterized by blind devotion to a position, regardless of facts
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 10:32 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
- How I have mis-characterized anyone? Watson is a hypocrite and the Japanese are whalers. Both are clearly true

- I made no implication the Watson is a racist. I did say it was a widely held belief in Japan that the whaling protests have a race based component. Here is a video that touches on that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t5wHTGbQEY&NR=1

- On the high seas no one has the right to put another person in danger. Watson does that with regularity and then whines when potentially some of the same tactics might be used against him. Remember, he initiates contact, not the whalers. If the Steve Irwin's deck were covered in butyric acid or methyocel, would he find that acceptable? How about if his prop was fouled or if rocket propelled lines and flares were shot at his boat? He did all that last season.

- The whaling by the Japanese and others are done under IWC rules. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but there is legal cover for it. The Australian sanctuary and economic claims are recognized by no one and even Australia is not defending them despite having a more than adequate blue water navy.

- There is no credible evidence Watson was shot. No independent investigation was every published. What was on the video was inconclusive at best. Have someone knowledgeable about firearms and ballistics review the film. See what they say.

Like I said in another post, one can oppose whaling and Watson.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #174
180. You have a blind devotion to defending the Japanese whalers illegal acts
You are akin to the birthers
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #180
181. Miore binary thinking...it is possible to oppose whaling and Watson at the same time n/t
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
68. Psy-ops are less ethical than just sinking the Nisshin Maru.
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 05:37 PM by BreweryYardRat
As for methodology, I see two options for sinking it, each of which would require a couple people.

1: Sneak on board with ski masks and toolkits.
2: Put an cold-water/"dry" suit and dive into the harbor carrying an underwater cutting torch and/or explosives.

Psy-ops is only going to hurt the low-income crew, not the people who actually own the Maru -- and the owners can just hire more crewmen. Sinking the ship hits the owners in the pocketbook -- the only place they have any feeling.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
138. I don't think it's less ethical than killing a sentient living creature.
It's shameful what they are doing and for that they should be shamed. Shame goes a long way in Japanese society.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #138
154. I assume you are a vegetarian at some level
Cows and pigs are sentient as well.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #154
157. But they don't work for the Navy.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #157
160. Which whales work for the USN?
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #160
161. Can't name them individually. Google Navy, dolphins, whales.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 03:11 AM by Cetacea
They have a long history together. The USN have done some of the best research on dolphin intelligence and communications. Sadly, it's all classified. Pilot whales have also been in their program as well.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #154
182. You assumed wrong.
I'm not a vegetarian. I'm not coming at it from the animal welfare point of view which you assumed. Though I do think that factory farming is a disgrace, I think the lose of a living wild creature whose numbers are dwindling and whose survival is at stake is more of a concern, at least for me. I lived in Hawaii, swam with dolphins, wild ones and I've seen the Humpbacks in their yearly migration. I might be biased toward the cetaceans and other wild creatures, but I can live with that. Biodiversity is where it's at.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. Just saying...
options..



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harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. Animal Planet needs to do more programs like "Whale Wars"
"Whale Wars" is the best thing on TV -- Animal Planet needs to do more programs like this.

People need to see the sickening cruelty going on in this world so they can be inspired to help stop it.

I saw "The Cove" as well. Everyone MUST see that film.

http://www.seashepherd.org/
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
48. if I ever hit the lottery
this would be my campaign.Fuck flying flags and worrying about commissions.I'd bury those fucks
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
54. Is whaling at this rate going to cause whale extinction?
I have heard conflicting reports. If they are hunting them to extinction, they need to decrease the hunting volume until a sustainable level is reached.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Not according to the IWC
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. What is wrong then?
I was under the impression they were hunting near extinct whales under the guise of scientific research.

That would make it seem like they are harvesting whales in a responsible manner.
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. there is nothing wrong as such i believe
its simply that some people HATE the idea of hunting whales(and some other animals)

Personally i have no problems with it as long as those who hunt do it as quickly and efficient as possible(tho who do not should not be hunting tho)

As for some of the comments above on what should be done, i am saddened to see such a number of violence/sabotage oriented mindsets here on DU
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. yeah, real enlightened of you there, Bodhi
:eyes:
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. +100000
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #62
111. + 1,000,000
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #111
144. +10,000,000 nt
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. They really are eco-terrorists then
Seems to be a lot of people here advocating even worse acts.

This would seem to be sustainable harvesting of food and scientific research. I've been led to believe the whalers were hunting them to extinction.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #63
143. And I donate to Sea Shepherd every year, so that must make me a eco-terrorist sympathizer
YeeeHaw! And proud to be a supporter of Sea Shepherd.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #63
158. Scientific research? Selling off their (large) brains for sushi?
It's so sadly ironic.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #63
171. No...they are not eco-terrorists...they have the right to defend the whales:

...snip...

With regard to the law, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society operates in accordance to the principles established in the United Nations World Charter for Nature that allows for non-governmental organizations and individuals to uphold international conservation laws and treaties.

Japanese whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is not endorsed by the scientific committee of the International Whaling Commission. Japan is targeting endangered whales in an internationally established whale sanctuary in violation of the terms of an international moratorium on commercial whaling. The Japanese fleet is violating the Antarctic Treaty by conducting commercial activity and refueling their ships south of sixty degrees. The Australian Federal Court has ruled that Japan is in contempt of an Australian Federal Court order prohibiting Japanese whaling activities inside the Australian Antarctic Territorial waters.

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society intervenes against Japanese whaling operations because we are an anti-poaching organization and the only difference between whale poachers in the Southern Ocean and elephant poachers in East Africa is that the African poachers are black and poor. In Africa, the rangers shoot poachers. We merely toss rotten butter at them.

The Sea Shepherd crew is doing what governments should be doing, but refuse to do themselves, because of the threats of trade retaliation from Japan.

After five voyages to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, not one member of the Sea Shepherd crew has been charged for any crime in relation to Sea Shepherd activities. There has not been a single whaler injured by our activities. There has not been a single arrest warrant issued and Sea Shepherd crew are free to travel internationally. In fact, during more than thirty years of operations not one Sea Shepherd crewmember has been convicted of a felony and not a single person has ever been injured.

...snip...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6373877


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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
178. I love when people parrot right wing memes.
Eco-terrorist. *snort* The only eco-terrorists I know are the people wrecking the planet for a quick buck.
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. It is not quick. It takes 20-25 agonizing minutes to kill a whale. n/t
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. I don't believe there is a better way
From what they showed on Whale wars it seemed like about the best way to do it. They harpooned it and shot it in the brain a bunch of times.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #59
109. "as quickly and efficiently as possible"---chasing whales with modern ships & blowing them up with
modern explosive harpoons is hardly humane, although it's a lot quicker and more efficient than a Nantucket sleigh ride.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #59
123. So was this video fast and efficient enough for you?
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. There is no responsible way to hunt whales...
Just as there is no responsible way to make fur coats. Killing whales serves no purpose other than to provide profits to the whalers...

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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. People eat the whale meat
and wear the fur coats. Eating and having clothes seem like fairly clear purposes.

Growing crops serves no other purpose than to provide farmers with profit.
Whale wars serves no other purpose than to provide corporations with profit.
Harvesting cotton serves no other purpose than to provide profits to clothing companies.
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Whale meat is a boutique food...wholly unnecessary for nutrition...
Just as a fur coat is a boutique item of clothing...only sold as a fashion statement and hardly necessary to keep warm...

You cannot possibly be so obtuse as to compare the wearing of fur and eating of whale meat to the sustencnce provided by oh, you know...crops...

Educate yourself before posting...you will look less foolish!
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. So you only eat and wear the bare minimum?
Anything other than a burlap bag with arm holes is a luxury clothing item. Hats are a luxury item, more than one pair of shoes is too much.

Anything other than the bare minimum caloric and nutritional content is a luxury food. Bananas are a luxury food, cheese is a luxury food, bread is a luxury food,

I'm not an insane minimalist. People are hunting whales and seals at an indefinitely sustainable rate. They are doing it in accordance with international law. There is absolutely nothing wrong.
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Ahh...the tried and true tactic of moving the focus...
In fact I do not eat meat, nor do I wear fur.

Bananas and wheat are not sentient creatures. Cheese is not produced by killing the animal its ingredient is derived from.

Killing sentient animals is immoral when done for transient or ephemeral purposes....as is the case with whaling and production of fur coats...

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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Except it is neither transient or ephemeral
Eating and having clothes are neither of those things. It is not immoral to eat animals or wear their fur.
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. I can only come to the conclusion you are arguing for arguments sake...
Eating Whale meat and wearing fur is ephemeral...

Since you keep circling back to your same tired and morally bankrupt argument feel free to not respond to this post...
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
88. I support the whalers and the seal hunters
What is so hard for you to understand about that?

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #88
112. Your profile says you hunt and fish.
How many deer have you killed just for the antlers? How about sharks just for their teeth? Any strictly trophy kills?
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #112
121. None just for the antlers
They are just one of the many benefits of hunting and fishing I took into consideration.

I don't go ocean fishing, yet.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. So you'd call yourself an ethical (or whatever) hunter, right?
Meaning that when you hunt/fish you do so to feed yourself. It's not about just taking a small part of the animal for personal want/gain, is that right? I know that's how most hunters are, at least.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #127
129. I don't "hunt to feed yourself"
I hunt because I find many aspects of it to be enjoyable. One benefit is the delicious meats I get. One benefit is the antlers. Another is the vacations I share with my friends and family. I enjoy the hunt.


It is not a convoluted trip to the grocery store for me.


I'm torn about taking animals for trophies or sport. I lean toward it being alright as long as it is humane and sustainable. I feel it is tainted by the excesses of the past. I wouldn't do it.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. Thanks for your straightforward answer.
I'm done with you.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. I guess I have nothing left to say to you
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 08:09 PM by Taitertots
Except feel free to live your life however you want. As long as you are not stopping me from doing the same, everything is gravy.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #73
90. Rennet (which is in many cheeses) is made from calf stomach
Also, cows must be kept in a constant cycle of birth for them to produce milk. The unwanted male calves are usually crated for veal.

Don't kid yourself that you are an animal cruelty innocent here.
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. Never claimed it was...
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 07:00 PM by S_E_Fudd
First, I actually despise cheese and don't eat it...

I am a huge proponent of humane farming practices...and wherever possible eat only products produced by companies that have been certified to practice those techniques...

Obviously I do not eat veal...

Factory farming is unusually cruel...and also harmful to human health...not to mention the incubator for many diseases such as the current H1N1 virus (very likely)...

The Humane Farming Association and the ASPCA's campaign against inhumane farming are doing a good job raising awareness...



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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #90
147. You're not a farm type, obviously.
Cows are *not* kept in a cycle of birth to produce milk.

They are milked regularly, and like all mammals, once they start producing milk, as long as they are regularly milked, they will keep producing more milk.

Humans, goats, all mammals are pretty much the same way.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. harvesting cotton is akin
to slaughtering a whale? :wtf:

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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Harvesting cotton is akin to harvesting seals
The only difference is that people think seals are cute.
You don't need a cotton coat any more than a fur coat.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Ummm bullshit
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 06:13 PM by Texasgal
Killing a defenseless animal is no where NEAR harvesting a PLANT for clothing.

I really don't want to ask what planet you are from. Seriously. :wtf:

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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. It is exactly the same
It is a fundamental element of nature. Why should we be in direct opposition to the way things have been predating man?
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. Are you serious?
Mammals are sentinent beings. Plants...are not.

Are you serious?
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Doesn't matter to me
I'm not going to oppose the obvious benefits harvesting whales and seals because they are sentient. I'm going to eat cows, wear leather, hunt deer, go fishing, and wear a fur coat.

The only reason to oppose it would be if they were endangering the species or causing excessive suffering to the animals.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Good for you.
Killing whales the way they do IS CAUSING EXCESSIVE suffering to the animal. They don't just die. It's PAINFUL and LONG. That is EXCESSIVE.

Hello MCFLY!
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. I watched whale wars
They harpooned it and shot it in the head a bunch of times. What more could they do?

Getting shot in the head is about the fastest, least suffering way to die.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #87
113. why don't you have someone try it on you and get back to us on that, OK?
Only THEN can you make such a statement and know what you're talking about.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. I don't think I'd mind being shot in the head with a cannon
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 07:23 PM by Taitertots
An instant painless death, so terrible. I wouldn't even have time to realize it had happened.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #117
122. and you think those harpoons always hit the whales right in the "painless" head? Yeah, right.
:crazy:
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #87
126. What more could they do??? Um..... Not kill it.
There is hardly a fast and humane way to kill a whale. There is no least suffering. It is SUFFERING and WRONG.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. It was over with MUCH FASTER than many animals die in the wild
I saw a coyote kill a fawn once.

They struggled for about an hour, during which time the coyote managed to blind the fawn and inflict some superficial wounds. The coyote then left the fawn to die of shock.

It was REALLY gnarly.

Being harpooned and shot in the head is a MUCH KINDER death.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Yeah.
So natural selection is akin to shooting an animal with a harpoon and then shooting it SIX times in the head.

Ummm... okay.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #94
99. Oh now stop
There's lots of natural predators that hunt for survival using huge ships, explosive harpoons, etc who have allegedly evolved to NOT wish to see suffering yet let their kills suffer for up to 40 minutes before they die.

Hundreds of them. I'm sure of it.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #99
177. Humans are natural predators. nt
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
176. Actually that is natural selection. Does not make the behavior ethical, but it is natural selection,
as opposed to sexual selection.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. I saw a fox kill a gopher before
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 07:00 PM by Taitertots
I'm pretty sure the gopher was still alive while the fox ate it.

There are almost no natural deaths that are faster or more humane then multiple cannon shots to the brain.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #91
128. Wait... What?
How is that similar. Does the whale really have a chance to survive? Survival of the fittest with big ships and all kinds of fancy tools???
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. That fawn did not have a chance
Really.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. All animals have somewhat of a chance against their predators.
Babies are usually protected by their mothers. Some babies are without mothers. But these whales have NO chance. NONE. I also hate hunting of any kind for the same reason. It isn't a fair playing field. In nature, there are always predators, but animals have their survival skills to help them along. What could this whale's survival skill have been? What chance did it really stand?
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #130
134. Natural selection.
Hello.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #130
136. Zema.
butcher one of your pit bulls for food and then call me.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #136
137. I'm a little short on pit bulls right now
;)
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #91
162. But they don't have more nerves going to more brain cells than even humans do...
The Japanese were given three days of scientific studies about the dolphin/whale brain aand the ethics of killing them. This meeting of the IWC resulted in the moratorium on whaling. Most of the other countries "got it"...

There is good reason to believe that they feel more pain than we do. (Nothing against coyotes and fawns.)
We should be studying these intelligent beings of the sea, not butchering them.
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Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #77
124. Right, let's do everything like it was done in the past.
In fact, let's bring back slavery. :sarcasm:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. Deleted message
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Sorry.
I didn't mean to upset you.

It's not my problem that you cannot see the difference between picking cotton and slaughtering a whale with a harpoon and a shotgun.

Atleast I learned THAT in kindergarten!
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #101
115. Obviously one is a plant and one is an animal
Both die without suffering, both greatly benefit people, and both meet people's fundamental needs.

You want to make a moral distinction between the death of an animal and the death of a plant. I don't see that distinction, I was fishing, and observing hunting in kindergarten.

I don't draw a moral distinction between the humane killing of an animal and the killing of a plant.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. Deleted message
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #120
125. Fancy doesn't make it not food
People are still eating it and it provides for them. Just because it is a delicacy you can't afford doesn't make it any less sustaining. Just because you disagree with meat, doesn't mean it doesn't provide for people.


Getting shot in the head is an almost painless way to die. Based on a whale's central nervous system and nerve density, a harpoon is nothing. They are killed very quickly and in a humane, responsible manner.

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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #125
135. bullshit.
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 08:29 PM by Texasgal
delicacy does not make it OKAY. That makes it less SUSTAINING.

People can live on rice alone.

Wearing fur and killing whales because YOU CAN is f'ing disgusting.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #135
139. Just because it is a delicacy doesn't mean.....
It doesn't provide for the people who eat it. They are eating it and greatly benefiting from it. It is sustaining them, providing the nutrition that drives their bodies.

People can live on rice alone, so anything other than just rice is a delicacy? Who decides unworthy luxury, from only rice.

It is not because you can, it is because it does the same thing better. Fur is beautiful and very warm. Whale meat is delicious and it is food.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #95
116. +1
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. Is there isinglass in your wine?
If so, your wine is the product of animal cruelty.

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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. xema. I really respect you
But, GODDAMN. You have to know the difference between harvesting cotton and slaughtering a whale.

Please... tell me you know the difference.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #98
104. I know the difference between harvesting cotton and slaughtering a whale.
I just don't see the difference between slaughtering a whale and slaughtering a cow, a deer, or any other animal. :shrug:
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. and you know what?
I do NOT disagree with that fact at all.

I try to stay as animal free as possible.

It's hard, because I am a former meat eater, but I will say that the last few years have turned me around.

I do NOT agree with HUMANS killing ANY ANIMAL. Period.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #107
148. "ANY ANIMAL"?
I'd be interested in your definition of animal.

Do you use natural sponges?

How do you feel about lice and bedbugs?

How about giardia, do you drink treated water?

If you had a tapeworm, would you kill it?

I'm just wondering what your criteria are.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #148
149. Any animals except the ones they are inconvenienced by
Obviously the standard is as arbitrary as it could be. One person's seal is another person's cockroach.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #149
152. I find it tends to vary.
Some people consider killing "pests" wrong, others don't. Some people define animals by a nervous system, others by pain response, others define them by size (etc.).

Which is why I ask people, to get a better understanding of all of the different ways people think. :)
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #104
118. Yes there is...
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 07:24 PM by S_E_Fudd
When hunting of an animal ceases to be for reasons of survival, and devolves into pure profit or for sport it becomes immoral...

It is immoral to kill sentient beings for transient or ephemeral purposes. Whale meat is a boutique food in Japan. It is not a staple part of the diet. Even the Japanese recognize the difference here as they cloak their efforts as scientific research.

It is no different than producing fur coats as a fashion statement. Inflicting death and suffering on animals for these purposes is immoral.

I recognize human beings are omnivores and do not argue eating meat per se is immoral. However, it should be done with as little suffering to the animal as possible. This is why I oppose factory farming and sport hunting...

I understnd the argument of false consistency...because we don't practice what we preach in one area then measures should not be taken in any.

It's the same argument some use for not intervening in countries for humanitarian reasons...because we cannot alleviate suffering everywhere, we should not intervene anywhere...

I reject that notion though...progress anywhere is good...

Because we have not solved the problem of animal suffering in how our food is produced, does not mean working to end whale hunting is not worthwhile...or unimportant...







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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #72
114. Deleted message
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #66
146. "there is no responsible way to make fur coats."
Animals die for many reasons. Even the furry ones. I suppose you could let them rot, or you could use the skin.

But don't go letting your ideological purity be assailed by reason.
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S_E_Fudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #146
169. I am perfectly happy to have fur companies...
Restrict their acquisition of fur to animals who die natuarally in the wild...

However, I am sure you are not naive enought to believe that is how it actually is done...

Look into it...the come back and tell me it is humane...

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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #169
172. Having seen animals die naturally in the wild
and animals killed for fur. The animals killed for fur are getting a way better death.

Can you imagine dying of slow starvation?
Having another animal eat you alive?

Have you ever seen an animal getting killed and eaten? You would be horrified, especially if you think fur harvesting is inhumane.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #169
179. I've looked. I know more than most people complaining about it.
At one point in time I had more than 35 million dollars in fur... in my house. (Explanation: My family used to do hand monograms on high-end articles of clothing)

Yes, most of the existing fur industry is wrong. That doesn't mean that all of wearing fur is wrong.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #58
85. Every year the Japanese claim to harvest between 1/2 and 1/2 of a percent
of the total Minke whale population.

They're not endangered.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #85
102. "Harvest" is an interesting word. n/t
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. flvegan, don't fear the reaper.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #102
110. Kind of like soldiers "engaging" the enemy
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 07:17 PM by wtmusic
Ties up a repugnant idea in a nice bow.

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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #110
119. same as "collateral damage" where "slaughter" = "research" of whales
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #85
140. Yeah and they also claim to do it for research
If you're going to side with barbarian liars, at least choose less obvious ones.
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #54
80. I'm just as worried about the mile long Pollock nets that are hurting the salmon runs
http://www.thetundradrums.com/news/show/5328

Fish sticks and Fillet O'Fish sandwiches are having a terrible effect on the sustenance fishing in Alaska.
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
145. The crew of Sea Shepherd are amongst my many heroes.
:patriot:
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
164. A peaceful and classic video: Carl Sagan on whale communication.
This video is under 11 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaYoKWQ8e1s
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AllenVanAllen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
165. Watching that whale die
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 04:16 AM by AllenVanAllen


was like watching a part of me die. Whether whaling for food or sport, the killing of these close relatives of the human race needs to be
examined more closely. We can not continue to abuse our oceans. If you kill enough of any creature in an ecosystem the ecosystem will fail.
If the oceans die, we will die.

Look closer... your life depends on it.





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DaveinJapan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
166. Are we talking strictly about cruelty here? No endangerment issues?
If so, I would think that lots of situations could be considered as cruel if not more. There has to be lots of incompetent hunters out there who shoot poorly, merely wound the animal, and lose track of it as it limps away to die from blood loss.

How is whaling ANY worse, if you remove the endangerment argument?

I wonder about the boutique argument, too. Whale is much more plentiful and cheap in Japan than, say, caviar or truffles or even lamb. So I suppose you could argue that none of those are "necessary" either, but people want to eat them all the same.

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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #166
167. Some estimates put the whale population at 1% of it's former population.
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life long demo Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
168. THANK YOU AGAIN
The previous to last program was hard to watch. But I believe the fight to save Whales is up to we on land. I remember part of a saying, goes something like this. evil will triumph, when good people do nothing. Not exactly correct wording, but I hope you get the point.

I have watched this program from the very first. Have donated to Sea Shepherd Society. My one sadness is that Greenpeace has stop involvement. They started the whole confrontation many years ago. I can remember when the zodiac's would get between the whales and the whalers. That was brave. God bless everyone who is taking direct action trying to save the whales, and dolphins.
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life long demo Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
170. Forgot to post a Youtube video
Anybody remember the group Yes? They recorded this great song "Don't kill the whales" back in the 70's.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0ETIEbuZfQ>

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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
175. Just so everyone knows, there are at least 10 countries which hunt whales.
Canada, Caribbean (only 4 per year),Faroe Islands, Greenland, Iceland, Indonesia, Japan, Norway, Russia, and the United States all engage in whaling.

Iceland, Norway, and Japan all sell whale meat, I am not sure about the others.

I am not defending whaling, I am just pointing out the fact Japan is not alone in this.
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