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On Sixty Democratic Votes In The Senate, Ladies And Gentlemen

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:53 PM
Original message
On Sixty Democratic Votes In The Senate, Ladies And Gentlemen
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 02:54 PM by The Magistrate
Our total of sixty votes today includes a number of 'moderates' and 'centerists' from red or reddish states. Democratic Senators from these places are going to have to stand up and put their seats at risk, and if they do not, will deserve every calumny of cowardice and corruption and petty self-serving that has traditionally been directed at them here from the left. It has been my practice to defend such people here on occasion from such charges, arguing that it is necessary to preserve their seats for a future battle on decent odds. Well, the time of that battle is now. No fight was ever won without casualties.

"The art of war consists in a well-reasoned and extremely circumspect defense, followed by audacious attack."
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bravo!
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. If the House remains solid the time will come when there will be immense
pressure for the last Senate hold outs to vote for the most important Democratic bill in 40 years.

I predict that there will be some type of horse trading (maybe increased incentives for rural health care) that will allow these folks to come on board a bill with a public option.

We should expect that some will say things now as a means of posturing for more leaverage in negotiation.

Conrad should be taken on now because he has taken such a high profile stance.

The one I really don't trust, however, is Bayh.

It also would not surprise me that one or two Republican Senators who live in Blue states will also try and do some horse trading in exchange for a vow from the Whitehouse to not make a high profile endorsement of a Democrat in their next race.

There is still a long long way to go and experienced legislators know that the pot gets sweeter the closer to the final vote. The last one to sign on is likely to get more attention for their endorsement than the one that is already on board.

The key is the House staying firm on the Public Option. If they stay strong the Senate will follow.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Do Not Mistake My Meaning My Friend
Posturing by these people can be tolerated a little longer, till the third week of September, perhaps, but they cannot be given meaningful concessions to secure their votes. This thing is stripped down as far as it can go, and still mean anything. These people are going to have to stand without cover, like any man in the firing line at Brandywine, and take their chances in the face of the shot. If they peel off, desert, then at least we all know where everyone stands. If they go down, they will have a name for courage. If they display courage, they may even secure the respect of their constituents, and with that respect their votes in future, even from people who do not wholly agree with their stand. As regards people like Snow and Collins, any promise can be made, so long as it is not kept, and serious candidates are run against them by the Party at the next opportunity. It is a damned disgrace that so much as one Republican holds a seat for New England.

"Battle creates clarity."
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. I agree that 'meaningful concessions' cannot be given


But there are other concessions, pet projects in their district or other special interests that they want advanced.

Then there is the old "VP Biden will hold a fund raising event in your district" and then "the player to be named later".

I do expect some very visible but not so significant 'face saving' point to be added or subtracted so that they can run to their hometown and let them say that they 'saved the bill'.

I would offer either Snow or Collins a safe race but only for the 'first one in' - ala McCoy on Law and Order, I would find the amusement to see them race to the door to take it to be worth the entertainment value.

"Battle creates clarity" will reveal exactly who we have in our party.

I predict that Bayh will be revealed as a potential replacement for "Dancing with Stars".
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. A Few Small Bribes Do Not Bother Me, Sir
In most instances here, after al, we are dealing with very small-caliber people. The thing that continually astonishes me is how cheaply politicians sell themselves. If you wanted me to do something that would net you several billions, 0.001% percent of the take would get you smacked twice and booted out the door.

Collins and Snow, though, must be driven out if they will not come over. We could secure wholly reliable votes in those seats, and the more the Republicans are stripped of anything outside the Confederacy the better for us all. My position remains, an offer of a safe race can be made, but it should not be kept in the event. Of course, one good idea would be cover assistance to a suitably lunatic Republican primary challenger....
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. I was watching Taylor at his Gulfport town hall. The audience seemed
ready to eat him and he was even asked why he didn't switch parties. They seemed to barely tolerate him as it is and he's against the bill. What the Blue Dogs are up against at home got a little more real after seeing that.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. Certainly, Ma'am, Many Of These People Have A Hard Row To Hoe
But they volunteered for the position they are in, and if they will not do the right thing in the fight we are now in there is no reason for them to be there at all.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yes. In fact, I was hoping our friend DUer merh was there somewhere
with a delicious dessert for him to wear home. :)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
75. But the question each of those blue dogs is asking him or herself
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 05:04 AM by tavalon
is which master is more likely to throw them out on their ear? The voters or their corporate sponsors. Whichever they decide is the more dangerous, that is the one they will kowtow to. I hope they decide were dangerous enough to their standing to listen to. I think we've been scaring them a bit this month. I don't think they realized that we realized that we have power and even more so, we've decided to use it.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. We Must Make Them Fear Us, Ma'am....
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
79. Except
For the fact that blue dog constituents are not happy with them. Blanche Lincoln's number have fallen below an acceptable level for an incumbent. And Montanans are not happy with Baccus. See here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6365883
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. +1 ... time for Democrats to vote like Democrats
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely Right! If they don't get it together and show they can lead,
they won't have those numbers for long.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. I feel sorry for the Blue dogs, living in a red area I know how they feel,
but if they enable a republican filibuster even I will turn on them.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. They Have My Sympathy As Well, Sir
Just about anyone advancing into something not everyone may return from does.

There will be people dead a year from now if the thing is not done, who would be alive if it had been. Only career is at risk for these people.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. It is most instructional, Sir, to view the words of Senator Byron Dorgan
If Sen Dorgan (D ND) can speak like this then Sen Conrad (D ND) and all of the others can as well.



http://www.openleft.com/diary/13941/senator-dorgan-supports-the-public-option

Q) Do you support a public healthcare option as part of healthcare reform?

Yes I do.

First of all, I think it's important that people who are satisfied with the health plan they have know that they can keep that coverage.

We also need to have a public option that serves as a backstop-offering protection and coverage to many Americans who cannot get healthcare now-but what that plan will look like remains to be seen. It is important to remember that millions of people do not qualify for employee-based health programs and can't afford to buy their own insurance. Uninsured Americans have almost no access to health care, except in emergency situations. This in turn raises the costs for all Americans.

But providing coverage is only part of the solution. Health care costs account for nearly 17 percent of GDP, which is unsustainable. The increasing cost is hurting not only our families, but also our businesses and governments. As we take steps to expand coverage, we must also work to bring down costs - or else we're just going to keep spending a lot of money without addressing the underlying problem.

Q) If so, do you support a public healthcare option that is available on day one?

Again, the legislation coming out of these committees has yet to be seen. But I do believe that some sort of public option needs to be part of the proposal, along with a focus on bringing down health care costs and prevention.

Q) Do you support a public healthcare option that can bargain for rates from providers and big drug companies?

In offering insurance, yes, I do believe that a public option should negotiate for rates and drug prices, just as insurance companies do now. I have also been supportive of efforts to allow Medicare to negotiate better prescription drug prices. However, that is not enough to bring down the costs of the entire system for everyone. That is why health care reform must address all the different problems that raise costs and affect coverage, not just rely on one proposal to be a cure-all for the system.

With respect to prescription drugs, there are steps we can take now to lower prices. I have introduced the bi-partisan Pharmaceutical Market Access and Drug Safety Act, which allows for the importation of prescription drugs produced in FDA approved plants in other countries. We pay more than any other country for drugs. People are being forced to choose between food or medicine and putting their health at risk. By allowing for the importation of FDA approved drugs and inserting some competition into the market, it will offer access to the same FDA-approved drugs sold at a fraction of the cost in other countries, and also force the drug companies to lower their prices in the long run.

Q) Do you support a public healthcare option that is national, available everywhere, and accountable to Congress?

This option should be available nation-wide in order to be the most effective. It should be subject to effective regulations like our existing programs.


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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. They Certainly Can, Sir, And Have No Excuse For Doing Otherwise
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
68. I agree Sir.
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 09:03 PM by SIMPLYB1980
Thanks for your informative posts.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. I always feel a bit more educated after reading your posts.
I always feel a bit more educated after reading your posts, and I always appreciate your perspectives.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Exactly. There's no point having these seats if we can't count on
the votes for a groundbreaking piece of legislation.

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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. I had to look up "calumny" -- perfect! Recommend! nt
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Everyone likes to ask someone else to be the martyr.
Basically, you're asking the 10 or so moderate/centrist Democratic Senators to "take one for the team" and risk losing their seats, which is exceedingly easy for you. But for someone that's worked their entire life and poured a lot of their own personal sacrifice into getting where they are, it's not exactly a request that's to be taken lightly.

Would you so easily give up your life's work for the greater good? For me, if it were my top issue - yes, I'd risk my career for the chance to make that kind of impact. But let me add in a twist - would you give up your life's work and your chance to make a difference on an issue that you feel is more important - is more vital to our nation - for something that you weren't entirely convinced about? I don't know about you, but I know I wouldn't.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that it's not a sound strategy - I'm just asking you to realize that what you're asking isn't exactly as easy as you make it sound. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with cowardice or corruption (though I'm willing to accept that it might in a few cases).
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. That Is What The Situation Demands, Sir
People who are not up to it should find another trade.

By the way, to talk of 'sacrifice' by these people in getting to their present place is nonesense. You will be hard put to find one person who has yet left the Senate poorer than he or she was on arrival....
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. I have too much respect for you to disagree with you as vehemently as I do right now.
There is a LOT of personal sacrifice that goes into being and becoming a Senator or any elected official. Your life is put on display, you spend every waking hour doing something for someone, you get berated by people like the teabaggers for simply having an opinion, you barely see your family in most circumstances... Yes, you may come out of it with some money (not nearly as much as you seem to think... $160k doesn't go all that far in DC, especially when you have to pay for your house back home too), but that is not to say they aren't sacrificing a part of themselves every step of the way.

You are typically far more even minded that this, Magistrate. I still ask you - would you give up your life's work on an issue you didn't really believe in?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. It Is An Investment, Sir, That Generally Pays Handsome Dividends
Net worth increases, salary is the least of it. This is a trade people are driven to by a conviction they are able, even destined, to direct the affairs of others, and persons of such a temperament have little real attachment to family life and the like, whatever they may say for public consumption, it being the fashion nowadays to exalt 'family' above most other things. People who drive themselves to power are seldom sympathetic characters, when closely examined.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Your post makes me very, very sad.
Honestly, I've typed out responses and deleted them several times. I cannot come up with further words at my dismay that you believe the average politician is nothing more than a power-hungry, emotionless automaton. I didn't think you were that cynical.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That Happens A Lot, Sir
"Happiness can be cured. Contact me for details."
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Just a minute
So are we saying that Dems must vote in lock stp with Reps in order to retain their seats? That when they were elected people didn't realize they were voting for a Democrat who may actually vote along party lines?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. not necessarily
Many voters cast their ballot for the candidate, not the party. Indeed, in the case of Democrats from reddish leaning states, its often a situation where some people cast their ballot for someone despite their party label.

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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. If a Rep votes for a Dem for Senator,
they take the risk that the Dem will have certain values and may vote in line with a President on whose coattails they got elected. Stands to reason, if a Rep was so adamantly against health care reform, they would have elected a Rep.

That any Dem Senator could state, pretend, ignore that Obama did not make it exceptionally clear that he was going to press health care reform. To now not realize it would be asked of all Dems to make this thing happen (rather than vote in a manner to ensure re-election of that very same Senator)...and then get into office waffling, is truly back-assed amazing.

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Indeed, Sir: Such a Vote Is For Someone Who Would Do What The Republican Would Not
Those who think such swing voters will stand by them for doing what their opponent would have done are damnable fools.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. Sheepish grin...I'm a ma'am.
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 06:40 PM by Sheepshank
otherwise, your ascertation makes all sort of sense, yesssiree.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. I Will Try And Remember, Ma'am
"The body remembers what the mind forgets."
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
49. But you are not drafted for the job you volunteer

And everyonce in a while you will have a chance to do something big for the country and you must take the risk.


Remember all of the patriots and soldiers who have laid down their life and losing a Senate seat doesn't seem that big a payment to secure the advantages of liberty.


Downthread I posted the words of Sen Dorgan D from N Dakota - if he can stand up in ND then they all can.

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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. we've been taking it for the team for many years
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 03:33 PM by noiretextatique
african-americans, gays and lesbians, women, pacifists. yeah...it's time for these fuckers to act like democrats.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. +1
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
63. The idea that they will be "Martyred" is absurd. If they vote FOR reform
WITH a strong public option the public will love the changes so much that they'll do whatever it takes to keep from losing it in the future. The thing the Blue Dogs fear is the loss of their lucrative lobbyist offers once they leave office. They really don't care that much about keeping their seat; otherwise they would collectively push for universal single payer.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. There Is Certainly Something To That, Ma'am
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. One little problem
There are actually only 58 Dems in the Senate, and one of them is so sick he couldn't attend his sister's funeral. One of the Independents, Bernie Sanders, will do the right thing. But, to get to 60, you have to get all the Democrats, wheel Kennedy into the Senate in his hospital bed, and convince Lieberman to do the right thing.

I'm afraid only the nuclear option or reconcilliation will get a decent bill out of the Senate, and then only if the House stands firm (as someone else observed).
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. People Have Been Wheeled In On Gurneys Before, Ma'am
Lieberman can be threatened with loss of seniority and committee assignments. Caucus with the Democrats, vote with the Democrats. Push the thing hard, and either succeed, or find out what the actual situation is, without cover or concealment.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Don't forget Byrd, too.
People like to clamour for making the Republicans do an old-school filibuster, forgetting that we have multiple ill and aging Senators on our side that wouldn't be able to sit there for the duration required. They also forget that Joe Lieberman isn't exactly reliable in this regard, nor would be Ben Nelson.

I think reconciliation, if done creatively, could get us there. I still can't agree with the nuclear option. I refuse to be a hypocrite.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The Reconciliation Process Is Fine By Me, Sir
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 03:31 PM by The Magistrate
It does seem to have some limits, however, and sooner or later, the Republican check on our agenda's passage must be fought down and broken, or the true situation be put on stark display for the voting public.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. your logic is unarguable...
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I care not for stark displays.
I care for policy. Any port in a storm, as it were. I'll take reconciliation if it means we get the public option and I'll leave the displays for town halls.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. There Is A Time And Place For Everything, Sir
This is the time to fight it to the knife.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. I agree
BTW, I'm a ma'am. :hi:

I like what the head of the steel workers union suggested on Schultz this week. Make them filibuster for a while to show their true colors, and then go for reconciliation.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
44. I agree with you about the nuclear option
Besides, we may need a filibuster at some point in the future.

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. Not Urging Abolition Of The Filibuster, Ma'am, Only The Breaking Of Filibusters By Republicans Now
Even at some cost among 'moderates' and 'centerists' next year should that result.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. As always, my good Confucian, your measured words are well said.
:a small bow of respect between equals:

Hekate

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Thank You, Ma'am
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. It just shows that Confucians and Taoists can be mutually respectful.
:silly:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well said. We can afford some casualties at the moment.
I have little fear of losing either the House or the Senate in 2010.

Health care is important enough for us to risk our precious powder, imho.

:toast:

:dem:

-Laelth
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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. You tell 'em Magistrate!
This indeed is a war.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Respect your opinion...kicking
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. If you vote for the well being of the PEOPLE...
Instead of Corporate America, the People will treat you favorably.

I do not agree that the Blue Dogs are that much at risk if they take care of their constituents, instead of Corporate America's interests. People in Red States get just as angry when politicians look out for Corporate America first.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. the yearning to preserve one's seat is the seed of corruption
ironically, voters would be more likely to re-elect a congresscritter with integrity than a congresscritter obsessed with self-preservation.

it's the money and the lobbyists who ruin everything, making re-election contingent on securing big money and talking big money out of going into a challenger's coffers.

red state or not, doing the right thing nearly always plays well.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
72. Aptly Phrased, Sir....
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. Methinks Obama needs to follow thru on his instinct...
for transparency on these negotiations by having these reluctant Dems over to a live C-Span Whitehouse summit wherein he evicerates their objections and clearly delineates the costs in lives & bankruptcies they are ignoring. Let there be light!!!!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
41. Glad to see you got your real "FIGHTING GEAR" on and are ready
to go get those ".....BASTARDS!"

:thumbsup:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
42. "...the time of that battle is now." Precisely!
K&R
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
43. My god it's good to see you!
:thumbsup: OP
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
69. Thank You, My Friend
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
48. It is good to hear from you. Put succinctly, I concur.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
54. Well said ...
... as always.

:kick: and REC'D!
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Much Appreciated, Ma'am!
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
56. We could not be more in agreement if we were the same man.
K&R
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Thank You, Sir
We should get together and count stents sometime....
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Ha!
Cinque
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. The Same, Sir
But you got yours in one go, did you not? Several tries were necessary for my collection....
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R!
Excellent and to the point, Sir! :applause:

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Glad You Approve, Sir
"Beware the wrath of a patient man."
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. Schumer said with 60 votes we wouldn't have to compromise on public option!
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 06:58 PM by Phoebe Loosinhouse
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/06/schumer-with-franken-seat_n_226267.html

Huffington Post
First Posted: 07- 6-09 11:55 AM | Updated: 08- 6-09 05:12 AM

Schumer: With Franken Seated No need to Compromise on Public Option

skip
"If you did a consensus within the Democratic Party, you would find the level-playing-field public option to be the answer," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. "And now that we have 60 votes, it seems to me like we don't have to turn it inside out for something we don't like"
************************************************************************************************************************************

But always bear in mind he uses weasel words like the "level the playing field public option".
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
70. It is a life or death decision for so many people
As you have pointed out, these turncoats risk nothing but their jobs. If they are willing to gamble with our lives, they shouldn't be surprised when we counter with whatever stakes we can access. Power, status, prestige: these assets can be stripped away by the same people who granted them.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. It Certainly Is, Dear
"I must apologize for the lack of bloodshed in tonight's programme. We shall try to do better next time."
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
73. Agree. Let's make the case for the Nelsons and the Bayhs to join us.
If we are spurned, let's hit back. Hard.

And let's pass this goddamned bill.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
74. Perhaps we actually need 65 Democrats in the Senate?
No, wait, 70. Naw, 75. I know, 100 Democrats in the Senate. Then we could have even more fun watching them chase their tails as they pretend to do our bidding when they are really, as always doing the bidding of their true lords, the corporate interests.

See, I don't think it's a problem with the blue dogs or yellow dogs or even purple dogs - I think it is the green dogs, er, backs that come flowing from their masters. We aren't their constituents and haven't been for some time.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
77. Happy to rec this one.
:kick:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
78. Just So
FireDogLake has been doing a superb job of holding their feet to the fire. If anyone would like to aid their efforts, here is the link:

http://firedoglake.com/
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
80. I doubt that any amount of favors, small bribes, or promises of future consideration will get...
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 02:38 PM by MilesColtrane
...the blues on board.

The only thing that will persuade them is the threat of being removed from the teat of power.

This is problematic because:

A Senate blue dog would have to believe that party leadership would make good on its threat to withhold campaign funds to an incumbent up for re election.

There are just as many conservative Democrats holding the party purse strings as there are candidates.

There are only four blue dogs who face an election in 2010. (Bayh, Bennet, Lincoln, and Specter)

I don't have the answer, but I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment that any Senator who votes down the eventual Health Care Reform Bill (or doesn't oppose a Republican filibuster of the bill) should be eviscerated by the grass roots.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
81. Funny how its different now that its an issue that matters to you directly.

It has been my practice to defend such people here on occasion from such charges, arguing that it is necessary to preserve their seats for a future battle on decent odds.


Uh huh... and we've been telling you repeatedly for years now why that reasoning not only doesn't work, but actively contributes to ensuring decreasing quality of conditions for the working class majority of America, the increase in corporate control of politics and the continued consolidation of power into the hands of a ruling oligarchy.

And here we are, as a society and a nation - pretty much exactly as we predicted.


"The art of not being an embarrassing shill for privileged interests rests in the cessation of defenses of power, of rationalizations for exploitation, of excuse making for corruption, and of apologetics for the ruling class."

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
82. Time to stand up or step down
K&R
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Thank You, Ma'am
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. You are very welcome, Sir.
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
83. Wow, I never thought I'd endorse anything you had to say
Your posts are usually pedantic and your tone is always condescending, but I can find no fault here. This is an issue worthy of the risk and the sacrifice. But, I don't think following the will of the people will result in much damage.
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