Nazis: An incredibly powerful post from AKM at The Mudflats

<snip>

"I am tired of people comparing Obama to Hitler. I am tired of seeing signs with swastikas and nazi symbols at health care rallies. I am tired of people saying that a health care plan designed to uplift millions of Americans to give them dignity, and choice and the ability to care for their families, is like Naziism. I am tired of Rush Limbaugh.

As time passes, and as the greatest generation becomes a memory, passing into history one soul at a time, it is up to the generations that follow them to keep “Hitler” and “Nazi” out of the clutches of those who would make them political buzzwords for people they don’t like, or policies they don’t understand. Those words remind us of the worst that people can be."


http://www.themudflats.net/2009/08/21/nazis/?cp=8

AKM is a great writer and an awesome blogger from Alaska. She is always a good read, but today's post drove me to tears. AKM's father was in a Concentration camp - her entire post is riveting.

Thank you for sharing that.

Peace...

:hi:

in order to create political fear for self-gain is inexcusable and needs to be confronted and refuted whenever it arises, by all of us, whether we support the current health care bill and the current president or not."

This is worthy of the top of DU's Greatest page.

there are nearly 400 responses to AKM's post, and they are worth reading too. A compassionate, intelligent
readership AKM has.

gut wrenching, yet oh so powerful piece. Truly moving. I wish I could Rec this post umpteen times.

Everybody should read this, no matter where your political loyalties lie. We must not denigrate and cheapen the memories and legacies of that "greatest generation" by comparing the insurmountably evil fascist force that was the Nazis that they fought and oh so many died fighting to save the world from true tyranny with current political heads and policies that we deem "unfavorable."
It was wrong when those on our side labeled Bush in this manner. But it is especially wrong when to quote the poster when certain very misguided people say "that a health care plan designed to uplift millions of Americans to give them dignity, and choice and the ability to care for their families, is like Naziism."


This point must be brought up at every chance and occasion when Rush and other right wing talking heads posit their "Obama=Hitler" and "Health Care=Nazism" backwards talking points. We must not and will not let them cheapen their memories and their sacrifice in the name of petty political pandering. Never.

but it is also important to note that anti-Marxist forces brought Hitler to power and allowed him to convert a democratic form of National Socialism into the brutal, dictatorial form of Fascism we are familiar with. If any group is similar to the early brownshirts it is those who are constantly harping against Marxism taking hold of the government. It is those who side with white supremacy and can't stand the fact that an African-American has been elected democratically as our leader.

But maybe "Underground Reich" is more accurate.

and his definition fits well for the Bush era.

K & R.

And had a grand father in the camps....

And a bunch of relatives who never made it into the ghettos or camps... (those were the lucky ones, sadly enough).

I think I can say this author "gets it".

It might take Weisel punching an asshole like Rush in the face to make the message clear, but these folks have NO FUCKING IDEA about the level of brutality they are talking about.

It's odd that when you go to wiki and search on "verschärfte Vernehmung" it takes you to the page about "enhanced interrogation techniques" which does not mention Verschärfte Vernehmung or the Gestapo or the Nazis.

WTF is up with that?

It seems this quote has been edited away:







If you look at an older iteration of the wiki page, it includes as its first topic “1 Nazi Germany”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Enhanced_interrogation_techniques&diff=291601972&oldid=291601760

This whole topic has been removed, with no edit history, at least none that I can find that mentions Nazi or Gestapo or verschärfte Vernehmung. Here is the new page with “1 SEER program”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_interrogation




Someone IS purging the intertubes of actual historical references to Nazi fascism in order to push the whole narrative about Obama being a socialist Nazi.





http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html">Andrew Sullivan’s piece, for more info on the whole subject.


What I find really wild is http://www.scribd.com/doc/17702330/Living-in-TruthIness">this commentary on Stephen Colbert which mentions truthiness and wiki and verschärfte Vernehmung all in the same place. They never mention that wiki deleted the reference.


The prophet Orwell did prophesize about this. It is really happening. This is not a drill.

Without the redirect working:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Versch%C3%A4rfte_Vernehmung&redirect=no

Secondly, this data isn't purged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Enhanced_interrogation_techniques&action=history

However, articles change, here's a few months:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Enhanced_interrogation_techniques&diff=307668480&oldid=291697975

WRT: "wiki deleted the reference".... Wikipedia is a collaborative project. There are literally millions of people adding, and removing, content. It has no common mind, no central control (well, actually, it does, but not for content like this).

If I wanted to make sure that the phrase in question was linked to current historical references, editorial content, and was reasonably linked to, I'd first edit the "Verschärfte Vernehmung" page (currently a redirect), and remove the redirect, adding in lots of historical background on how it was used, history under the Nazi's, historical citations, past and present english translations, and similar terms. Many wikipedians are history buffs, and appreciate articles about historical terms. After most of the history is covered, add in the modern references.

*After* that first page has lots of good, referenced, content, about the original term, link the EIT page to it, and vice versa. Then, people can debate the topic from that angle, rather than debating something like if EIT=Nazi program, which has "flamewar" and "hyperbole" written all over it.

The edit where it went from "1 Nazi Germany" to "1 SERE program."

What date did it occur on? I don't see it. You say it is there, but I cannot find it.


Also, why isn't the redirect working? Is that an odd thing or are there many of these redirects that don't work? How did you "find" the redirect page if it isn't working?


And, what do you mean, a flame war? What the hell are you talking about? Either it happened, and it can be proved, or it can't. What does a flame war have to do with it?


It seems like a directive from the Gestapo chief is evidence enough that it really happened.




I don't know what the hell you are talking about with the flame war comment. Did you even read the piece I linked to about Stephen Colbert? I suggest you read it, it isn't that long, before you try and respond.

Here's one removal of related text:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Enhanced_interrogation_techniques&diff=next&oldid=292442964
May 27.

It's been added/pulled a few times in the edit history.

As far as the redirect, the argument can be in the URL to *not* redirect. You can see them on the page you're redirected to, at the top of the page.

As far as flame wars and invective go, there's a bunch of rules and guidelines to keep articles neutral. If you look at the talk page, you can see lots of people working towards being neutral, adding perspectives, removing spin (etc. etc.)

Most of the edits on this particular paragraph don't have any real comment other than "the article doesn't prove anything" and that type of thing.

Isn't this paramount to Holocaust denial?

I mean, what they are doing over there on this particular subject, isn't it wrong? During the post-war era there was a lot of the world's best brain power dedicated to reconstructing exactly what happened to bring about the Holocaust. There was a phrase "never again" that meant that we should never bury the past about what happened under Hitler. That is exactly what they are doing when they take out the references to Nazi Germany, isn't it. They are saying "let's forget all that, it doesn't matter because it might upset some folks who read it," aren't they?

That's how it seems to me. It seems like a serious thing to me.

Extreme torture is wrong, but that doesn't mean that 100-300 people tortured equates to 6-20 million killed.

Is there denial that torture was wrong? Definitely.

Did Bush, and Hitler, both torture people? Yup.

Does that mean the two are the same?

The two are so different as to strain relevance.

Hitler didn't kill 6-20 million people and then, after that was accomplished, decide to start torturing folks.

That's idiotic.

There is a very clear path that he took, and it is criminal to refuse to ask if we are on that same path.

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” - Edmund Burke

calling Obama Hitler gives them that excuse.

So many wonderful thought pieces! Thank you for sharing this.

...the rocks fly both ways.

I don't call anybody an asshole to their face, regardless of what I think of them.

I keep it civil, and I expect it back. I've had some very intense conversations with people that left us both hot under the caller, but we exchanged our ideas or opinions and walked away with a better understanding of where each other really stood.

I do admit there are some people who simply cannot be reasoned with, but they are relatively rare.

n/t

Very powerful. I shared it on my facebook, made me smile when I saw a friend share it the next day.