Health plan will prohibit abortions , but what about the famous D & C?

from wikipedia:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, D&C only accounted for 2.4% of abortions in the United States in the year 2002,<5> down from 23.4% in 1972
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back before abortion was legal, MANY of my mother's friends talked about "their D & C".. As a child, I just assumed this was something that women had to cope with , whatever a "D & C" was :) I gathered that it involved bleeding, and was pretty icky.

Haven't we all marveled at how quickly "female troubles" went away after abortion was legal?

Back then if one called it an abortion, it meant a really icky back-alley type of procedure, but hospitals & doctors sure did a LOT of D & Cs. Of course these were the women who had regular long-time family doctors, and before many (most?) had insurance..

she had one child that she didn't want. it took me years to realize what the D&C really was.

and yes, we did hear about a lot of women having D&Cs back then.

but I don't really appreciate your insinuation that they all are. I had one done as an exploratory procedure to check for endometrial cancer. I believe abortion should be covered under universal health care, but that will need to come about by repealing the Hyde Amendment. In the meantime, many women have D&c for other reasons. I hope these don't become more difficult to obtain or pay for because of stupid assumptions like yours.

There are many medical reasons for the procedure known as "D&C". Of course it should be covered by any and all health plans.

but your knee-jerk anger at me is uncalled for.. How on earth would I know that an anonymous person on the internet)s) would feel the need to be seriously offended at something that is truth..not insinuation?

They Hyde amendment needs to go, but that's not why I posted this. It will NOT go, anytime soon.

Your brush with medical disaster had to be frightening, and I hope that everything turned out okay.

I posted this because politicians always leave loopholes , and I would hate to see going "backwards" to the days of sharp knives & general anesthesia, as the only "out" for poor women.

It eventually led to a total hysterectomy. D&C is one form of abortion that is also a cure for other problems than pregnancy.

I'll be having one soon for the same reason as yours. I've known many women through the years who have had them done for various reasons, none of them were for abortions. The ones I knew that had abortions never referred to them as a D&C either.

My best friend would be heartbroken to hear that D&C's were being thought of as abortions. She had two that I remember, during her 20's, to diagnose her problems which were serious enough, that she was unable to have children.

but rather asymptomatic endometriosis.

And yes, for some women, this idea that they had "secret abortions" would be yet another trauma added to already difficult situations.

I'm glad yours turned out negative. I did have one negative endometrial biopsy but that was done before the ultrasound which showed several questionable areas. The Dr. said while it was negative, she didn't feel comfortable saying I was cancer free until she does the D&C.

Adenomyosis, endometriosis, ovarian cysts and now polyps too. Insurance won't pay for a hysterectomy at my age due to pending menopause, unless it's cancerous.

You read that in. Steady, there.

But there were lots of them when I was young and I don't hear of them as often now. I know I'm older but I have lots of much younger friends and acquaintances too. I rarely hear of a D&C now. I know they do happen for many reasons but it doesn't seem as common now as it was back in the 60's.

I had one because the ultrasound at 10 weeks showed that the baby died.

:hug:

and we did many, many D&C's for a variety of reasons, but never once for the purpose of abortion. Abortion was legal and performed at a clinic in our town (not far from the hospital and cheaper). The hospital where I worked for 10 years was a Catholic hosp.

Back then there were few choices:( and if a family doctor called it "something else" it was likely a D & C.

A D&C is not an office procedure. It's done in a hospital or surgical center. OR nurses and an anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist are present. Pathology is done. Records are kept.

There are a whole lot of people who would have to keep quiet and laws and ethics that would have to be circumvented and records would have to be falsified in each and every case. No ethical physician would do what you are suggesting. Certainly no smart one would.

In other words, your assertions and assumptions are utter nonsense.

You are absolutely correct. Women aborted by D&C by the family Doc under the guise of female problems pre R v Wade. This raises two more human rights/women's rights issues.

First, for the most part, only women with money were in a position to count on the family Doc to do this.

Second, In many cases, Docs would only do this with the husband's permission if the woman was married, no matter what her home situation was.

Those days seem like the dark ages to me.

the family doctor was usually in private practice with one nurse who was very devoted to him and his patients.. It was NOT at ALL like today. The family doctor was very likely to have delivered you. and doctors were quite god-like back then too.. if they said a patient needed a D & C, there was no board of inquiry to question his wisdom, and probably a lot fewer people even IN the operating room if it was done in a hospital. Hospitals and medicine in general was a lot different..Maybe in big cities or university hospitals it was different, but in the middle of Kansas in small towns no one questioned the doctor, and whatever the real reason was, that was left to the patient and the doctor.

I don't remember being able to use one before 1976 or so.

It was a different world, for sure.

Had my 3 sons, got my tubes tied.. end of story :)

http://history.nih.gov/exhibits/thinblueline/timeline.html



From Directions and Technical Information on UCG-TEST, 1970, courtesy of Special Collections, Northwestern University Library
From Directions and Technical Information on UCG-TEST, 1970, courtesy of Special Collections, Northwestern University Library.
1976
FDA approval was sought by Warner-Chilcott for e.p.t, the “Early Pregnancy Test” later known as the “Error Proof Test.” e.p.t would become the first home pregnancy test kit on the market in the United States. The makers of e.p.t worked with the FDA to meet all the requirements of the 1976 Medical Devices Act. (The new regulations divided medical devices into three classes depending on potential for harm and misuse.) Approval was also granted to three other tests that were deemed “Substantially equivalent:” Predictor, ACU-TEST, and Answer.

1976
Several articles in the American Journal of Public Health stated that public health would be better served if the average consumer could purchase a home pregnancy test and use it reliably in her own home.

1977
By the end of 1977, e.p.t was ready for the American market. (Because of requirements for the specific wording on packaging and other last-minute details, there is a lag time between FDA approval and wide availability of most medical devices.) In a “Dear Pharmacist” letter from Warner/Chilcott, drug stores were informed that “the e.p.t consumer advertising campaign has been designed to direct the consumer to their drug store to purchase e.p.t”

1978
e.p.t was advertised in major women’s magazines including: Mademoiselle, McCall’s, Redbook, Family Circle, Ladies’ Home Journal, Good Housekeeping, and Vogue. Advertisements appeared later in the year for Predictor, Answer, and ACU-TEST.

The e.p.t test of 1978 was described to the public in Mademoiselle: “For your $10,” the article notes, “you get pre-measured ingredients consisting of a vial of purified water, a test tube containing, among other things, sheep red blood cells…as well as a medicine dropper and clear plastic support for the test tube, with an angled mirror at the bottom.” The test took two hours, and was more accurate for positive results (97%) than for negative (80%). Advantages, noted Mademoiselle, included “privacy and not having to wait several more weeks for a doctor’s confirmation, which gives you a chance, if pregnant, to start taking care of yourself…or to consider the possibility of early abortion.” (Mademoiselle, April 1978, p. 86)

McCall’s magazine claimed that “physicians we interviewed about the tests endorse the concept.” But the editors cautioned that women who get negative results and who still suspect pregnancy should not wait ten days to take the test again “but should seek medical help as soon as possible.” (McCall’s, March 1978, p. 46)

1979
Taking the test at home, noted a 1979 article in Family Planning Perspectives, both protected the privacy of a woman who might not want her doctor to know she is sexually active and gave women a new opportunity to take an active role in their own health care.

had to wing it or go into a doctor's office and pay for a test.

:rofl:

D&C is used to treat or diagnose so many other conditions, back before Roe some abortions were done under the cover of doing a D&C. I would make a related point. Understand, I think abortion is a horrible thing. But, I also think it should be covered for two reasons:
1. Not covering abortions will not stop women from getting abortions, just make it harder or send them to where they can get it done cheaply. Will the insurance cover treatment of infection following an amateur abortion?

2. Not covering abortions will that women who need a D&C will often be in a position of having to prove they didn't have an abortion. Sometimes a D&C is done after a miscarriage or molar pregnancy. imagine losing a desired pregnancy and no one being able to explain you what went wrong, then having to argue with the insurance company to prove you didn't have an abortion.

Women wanting an abortion should not have to lie about it, nor should they have to beg a doctor to
"help them"... but I have no doubt that loopholes will be a mile wide to allow for wiggle-room, and let the aspersions fall on the women ..

Americans have a knack for calling things by another name.. somehow truthful words are too adult for us..

in the 50's when a 30 yr old woman with 4 kids had a D & C, her close friends knew what was up.... once abortion was legal, and an in-hospital stay was no longer necessary, no one needed to come to her house to watch 4 kids for her, so she could make an adult decision on her own, and not have to call it a D & C for some "wink-wink" female troubles.

This is the stupidest thing I ever heard. D&Cs have always been done for a variety of reasons. Yes, even in the 50's. Your assumption that all D&Cs were abortions until Roe is ridiculous. You don't know squat about women's health.

Assuming that D&Cs were always "wink wink" abortions was wrong then (as your CDC stat proves) and reminding people of that presumption will serve to have D&C uncovered too, because Heaven forbidden that even one of them actually was an abortion.

The probabl reason that you hear less about "female troubles" is fewer pregnancies per woman and advances in medicine.

with abortion where I lived in the 70s - 80s or so. That's what first term abortions were called afaik at places like Planned Parenthood and other "abortion" clinics.

/oops

The procedure is used for a variety of female issues.

However, most of the abortions performed in my area in that time period were D&Cs. Hence, the term became interchangeable for a while.

She insinuates that her Mom's friends had abortions because they discussed having D&C's.

First off, female troubles did not just disappear after abortion became legal. Second, just because someone had a D&C either pre-Roe or after, doesn't mean they had an abortion. OP stated "wink wink" female troubles acting as if anyone who had a d&c for female problems was not telling the truth and really secretly had an abortion.

and the winking did happen.

The OP used hyperbole but her basic point is right. We can rely on D&Cs to an extent if the assholes in Congress don't cover abortion.

After Roe IIRC many first trimester abortions were accomplished using an D&C procedure and clinic staff probably described it as such. That isn't the issue. It's the presumption that most or all D&C done prior to Roe were secretly abortions. That was Critters2's point up thread.

Back then I knew a woman who had a D&C for therapeutic purposes and she had never heard the procedure name used as a euphemism so she freely told her friends. Unfortunately because she was a divorcee some tongue waggers started a rumor and it took months for the woman to quash it.

The tongue waggers have to stand in line behind the moralistic finger waggers who seem to hold sway with Congress.

a recourse if the idiots in Congress go the way of disallowing abortion.

When Fran Schaeffer gave me his interview, he said outright that nothing exerts the right wing as abortion does. Not gay marriage, nothing. And I believe him.

It's hard to accept that women's lives are held so cheaply.

as a covered procedure. Women who are middle income or above will have abortions outside of the system and as usual it's the low income women will be the ones left without good options. They will be lucky if they can find a doctor who will lie about the reason for a D&C. More typically they'll have to hope for an affordable, but not necessarily safe, abortion outside of the system or continue to term.

under the Hyde Amendment. The risk is that people start insinuating that d&Cs are abortions, and the fundies will work to de-fund those as well.

What makes you think female troubles went away after abortion was legal?

While D & C's have decreased in numbers for abortions, they still, as they have for years, continue to be used for "female troubles".

I agree with Critters2. Don't assume a D&C, then or now, is an abortion.

I remember people were getting them left and right back in the 60's. It was very common. It took me a while to figure out what was really going on. Yes, very common back then.

over the very good point you've made in the OP. If D&Cs are covered, that WILL help many women who need abortions and can get them done via this procedure.

:shrug:

I guess people don't remember how it was before abortion was legal.. I remember how awful it was when my best friend got pregnant and how 5 eighteen-year olds (her pals) managed to sell almost everything we had of value to scrape together the money so she could go to Oklahoma for an illegal abortion..which failed.. and then again at 5 months to Nebraska.. she almost died .. It was the typical back-alley abortion.. a "midwife" and a "pre-med" student.. $500 and a crummy motel in Omaha.. She was very lucky to not die. She did not have a doctor, and there was no way she was gong to involve the family doctor, so this was her only option.. They gave her some pills & some liquor, and she had the standard motel room D & C :cry:..

The really karmic thing was that she went on to marry the guy and they had 5 girls.. the aborted baby? a boy:(

who would certify that the pregnancy would make me insane. We looked and looked and didn't find anyone until into early second term. It was easier than the ordeal your friend went through but only because there was little chance I'd actually die from it even if I wanted to from being sick day and night.

I remember.

the Ides of March :(

Never again, not going back. :grr:

They managed to nix abortion funding and it doesn't take much imagination to develop language that would force women to prove that they're not pregnant before a D&C can be done.

Remember the state legislator (VA, maybe) who wanted women who had miscarriages to prove that they weren't induced abortions?

The technical name for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. Needless to say that term is not often used around women who have had a miscarriage.

Isn't it something like 1 in 10 pregnancies? It was, anyway, the last time I checked.

many women had miscarriages before they even knew they were pregnant. They just thought they had a "weird period".

the morning sickness hit. lol

:rofl:

& then I was born, unfortunately. I don't know if D & C is related, it sounds like it might be, it involves scraping the inside of the uterus to better aid implantation of the egg.

It involve scraping the uterine wall, and is done for a variety of reasons. In my case, I had some difficult to diagnose symptoms. There was a fear that I had endometrial cancer. The endometrium was scraped away and examined by a pathologist. I had a laparoscopy done at the same time, which found endometriomae throughout my abdomen, and the diagnosis was endometriosis. There were pre-cancerous cells in the endometrium, so I was fortunate that the D&C was done.

I don't think I've ever heard of a d&x.