Murrysville couple challenges home-school law

Murrysville (PA) couple challenges home-school law



A Murrysville couple, long at odds with the Franklin Regional School District over the home-schooling of their now-grown children, filed a lawsuit in Westmoreland County Wednesday seeking a ruling to overturn laws that give public school districts the right to oversee home education.

The lawsuit was pursued a year after the federal courts ordered six families in Pennsylvania to file their challenges in state court.

In Common Pleas Court documents filed yesterday, one of those six families, Dr. Mark Newborn and his wife, Maryalice, want a local judge to find that the state lacks jurisdiction to require parents who home-school their children to submit documentation about their curriculum and to place limits on religious education.

The Newborns contend government authorities such as school districts should not be permitted to restrict and closely monitor what is taught in the home.

"The home education statute requires that Dr. and Mrs. Newborn cede jurisdiction to the school district and become excessively entangled with this government agency relative to their religious education in that the home education statute gives the superintendent authority, jurisdiction and discretion to approve the appropriateness of the religious education Dr. and Mrs. Newborn provide their children," according to the lawsuit.

The Newborns claim that in November 2003 they were notified by the district that truancy prosecution could result if they did not submit an affidavit or an outline of education objectives for their children.

That action prompted the Newborns to embark on what has become a six-year legal battle with the school district and the state.

The Newborns have two children. One attends law school in Virginia, and the other is an undergraduate at Grove City College.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_639213.html

She was very proud when she bragged about the fact that her child thought the concept of evolution was silly. I feigned support for this rejection of science and asked how she knew the child thought it was, indeed, silly. Her explanation? "Well, I was reading verbatim from the evolution section of the science textbook - only because I'm required to - and saw that the children weren't understanding. asked me to explain what it meant, so I said, 'Well, people that don't believe in God think that we descended from monkeys and that we used to have tails. Isn't that silly?'." The child agreed.

The child didn't assert that evolution is silly, there was simply an agreement to a weak, silly explanation. That's how evolution is being taught by home schoolers.

in Texas of all places and she thinks that the Bible version of events is silly. Texas has no real oversight of homeschools; we can teach whatever we wish. My child learned far more about the Theory of Evolution at home than she would have in public school in this backwards-ass state. Go figure.

I'm a homeschooling mother. My kid knows more about evolution and prehistoric life than a typical graduate of the local public high schools, and he's EIGHT. One of the main reasons we do homeschool is because of the terrible state of science education in this country.

Don't assume that because one homeschooler you know is an ignorant fuckstick that we all are.

my sister in law pulled her daughter out of school during 8th grade and proceeded to homeschool diddley squat. Now the girl is turning 18 and no high school education at all, in fact, she can't even take a GED class because she has no high school at all.

I also had a neighbor from Jordan who's sister took her niece out of school at 13 and sent her to Jordan to marry some 50- year old. I saw the wedding video.

personally i believe that education is the parents responsibility, whether that means you homeschool, send to private school or send to public school, it should be the parents decision tied with their ability...

under the guise of homeschooling. Not all parents are responsible. My ex SIL never went to high school, yet she is considered "ok" to homeschool in NY? WTF?

You are obviously doing a fine job of teaching credible, logical facts. I should never have implied that all homeschoolers teach in such a manner, and I sincerely apologize.

I will say, though, that almost all homoschoolers I know - and I know many - are indeed fundie Christians, and most are control freaks as well. There has to be a survey somewhere to show the statistics, and I imagine the vast majority of homeschoolers nationwide are bible thumpers that do not believe in evolution.

Again, I know that not all homeschoolers teach as I described in my previous post, as you two proudly demonstrate. I'm just saying that it's my opinion that most do.

and we have to require proof that those standards are being met, otherwise we have a de facto removal of the mandate for compulsory public education.

for - public schooling,

and we have to require proof that those standards are being met. . . "




edit -fix HTML brackets.

who evidently wants NO accountability for school-board-run-public-school teachers, but wants them for everyone else.

:shrug:

for compulsory public education. My kids are in Catholic school, and no one from the county has ever knocked on my door wanting to know why they aren't in the local public school.

Compulsory education? Yes.

Compulsory public education? No.

Compulsory education, but not compulsory public education. My point was that you have to have minimum educational standards and you have to enforce those standards, otherwise people could keep their children home and teach them nothing, or send them to church everyday to do nothing but pray and sing hymns.

I have nothing against home schoolers-- my daughter home schooled most of her K-12. I DO object to parents using home schooling to indoctrinate kids with their religious insanity, however!

I'm curious

Spirituality per se is a natural human activity, I think. But BELIEVING in the existence of things for which all compelling evidence is opposed is, as the saying goes, utterly insane. It's delusional, and folks who accept the reality of their delusions in other contexts are generally regarded as mentally ill.

You can't prove the negative.

Anyway, as I thought, an anti-religious bigot. You have every right to believe as you choose, but calling people insane because they accept the reality of those things which YOU determine to be "delusions" is, to be blunt, egotistical and rude.

...but at least I'm relatively sane. :rofl:

If you find it funny to insult other people simply based on their beliefs, then chuckle all you like.

But look in the mirror, and ask yourself if you are honestly as progressive as you think you are.

but what right does the state have to impose limits on religious education?

dg

that "religious education" is used to sidestep or manipulate science curriculum.

Although the article doesn't specify.

<snip>

The Newborns claim that in November 2003 they were notified by the district that truancy prosecution could result if they did not submit an affidavit or an outline of education objectives for their children.

That action prompted the Newborns to embark on what has become a six-year legal battle with the school district and the state.

The Newborns have two children. One attends law school in Virginia, and the other is an undergraduate at Grove City College.

In the lawsuit, the Newborns specifically asked that a county judge find that state law violates the tenets of their Christian faith. They are seeking to enjoin Franklin Regional from prosecuting them under truancy laws.

Why should we assume that parochial schools are doing a better job?

Why?

Sorry for the terse post. The power cord in my laptop is failing so I had to type with one finger while holding the cord in with the other hand. x(

I'm sure some do a fine job, and others don't. Just as with homeschooling; unregulated education will have a huge range of quality.

Over-regulation, over standardization, of public schools narrows the range but also diminishes quality.

I'd love to find a happy medium.

I'm saying that if the government's problem with homeschooling is the religious content, then why don't they also have a problem with parochial schools? Many parochial schools are as fundamentalist as many home schoolers.

it's with the lack of documentation.

There's not that much oversight of what homeschoolers teach, but many states require that they show they are teaching *something*.

Some states still require that homeschooled kids take, and get acceptable scores on, the same standardized tests that public school kids take.

I totally support the right to homeschool, but I think the state also has the right to ensure that kids aren't being pulled out of school to do farm work or babysit their younger siblings all day while Mom and Dad call it a curriculum.

I've never connected the two before. Homeschooling, where the adult or parent doesn't have to have any skill at teaching, and can manipulate curriculum, or create their own curriculum... I know that the states I've taught in have requirements; home-schoolers have to follow an outlined curriculum and demonstrate that they are learning it in some way. I don't know if there are states that turn home-school parents loose to do whatever.

And private schools, parochial or not, that can hire anyone, qualified or not, to teach, and also create their own curriculum.

I know that in both states I've worked in, there are state regulations for private schools beyond the regulations for home-schoolers.

I know that, like parents who homeschool, there are private schools that do an excellent job, private schools that do a very poor job, and everything in between.

Private schools exist to serve several goals and beliefs; not all private schools serve the same, of course, but among them:

white flight
class segregation
religious segregation
religious brainwashing (as opposed to religious instruction; brainwashing takes them young and keeps them shielded from other ideas and povs until they've been hardwired to the faith)

The benefits of small schools and classes
Greater relative flexibility and freedom in regards to curriculum, instruction, hiring, schedules, etc..
Special focus of some sort, whether it be religious, college prep, the arts, a philosophy or instructional methodology
Belief in the incompetence of public schools...result of a few decades of anti-public school and teacher propaganda

etc..


The motivations of homeschoolers? Probably the same.

Since education is under state control, (mostly, since the era of federal bullying,) it's hard to tell if the government looks at homeschooling differently than private schooling. There are 50 different governments to investigate.

It's also hard to tell, from this article, if the state's actions against this family are really religiously motivated, or if the family did not abide by home-school regulations, and are using religion as an excuse.

Or if their excuse is valid.

Really, I'd need more information to be able to confirm or deny my own suspicions or anyone else's. Which is why I said "I suspect," rather than claiming anything as a verifiable fact.

to tell parents what, how, how much, or when they can teach their children about their religion.

dg

Can you verify that?

YOU are the one who brought up religious education as a way around teaching science,so why don't you verify that's what these parents are trying to do. Sorry, but I don't think the State gets to have a say in what parents teach their children about their religion, whether I agree with it or not.

There's something in the Constitution about that. Might want to try reading it.

dg

Commenting on what the OP was about.

That's why I read the whole article, looking for more information, and posted a snip that seems to indicate that the religious angle may be a red herring. Or not, but I can't tell from just the article, so I asked if you had more concrete info that would support the claims of the parents.

<snip>

The Newborns claim that in November 2003 they were notified by the district that truancy prosecution could result if they did not submit an affidavit or an outline of education objectives for their children.

That action prompted the Newborns to embark on what has become a six-year legal battle with the school district and the state.

The Newborns have two children. One attends law school in Virginia, and the other is an undergraduate at Grove City College.

In the lawsuit, the Newborns specifically asked that a county judge find that state law violates the tenets of their Christian faith. They are seeking to enjoin Franklin Regional from prosecuting them under truancy laws.

most definately

:blush:

I'd bet money, it is

Bill Maher's take on the place:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/14/maher-blasts-regent-law-schools-transformation-of-the-doj/

Which is worse.

Most likely the options were Regent or Liberty.

from St. Vincent's and is now attending George Mason University Law School where he is the Sr. Editor of the Law Review.

We may not like his religion or his politics, but there is no denying his intelligence nor the quality of the education he received as a homeschooler.


edit to add: he scored 1570 on the SAT college entrance exam - at age 15.

Here in PA, There is NO restriction on the number of hours of religious education, there are only minimum requirements on total hours for other subjects.

My neighbor, home schools her kids and there is a minimum amount of paper work that has to be submitted to the school district and the rules as to what can be counted as instructional time are IMHO very lax. My idiot of a neighbor counts making her kids cut the grass as "phys ed". Her kids have never been taught even the concept of evolution because they have told me and my children on numerous occasions that there were men living during the time of dinosaurs. I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks letting them watch the Flintstones counts as science.

I have no problem with people homeschooling their kids, but there have to be some set of minimum requirements to ensure that children get some minimal level of education.

http://home.comcast.net/~askpauline/hs/homeschooldayshours.html

The fundamental question here is:
Should a government official (public school superintendent) determine if a religious education is "appropriate"*, as required by the PA Home Ed law?

Facts:
1. This family is providing their children with a religious education, not dissimilar to other religious education choices such as Christian schools.
2. Apparently the education has been more than satisfactory. The article cites 2 children in college and beyond. (summa cum laude? hmmm)
3. The PA Home Ed law requires the pubic school to annually determine whether homeschoolers are receiving an "appropriate" education.
4. The superintendent determines "appropriate" education by purely subjective means.
5. Therefore a government official, subjectively determines whether a religious education is appropriate.

If a government has the right to determine if a homeschool education is "appropriate", then should the public school oversee private schools also? So, then the public school should go annually to the Catholic or Jewish or Muslim schools and determine whether their education is "appropriate"? In PA, the private schools currently have their own law and do not have to prove education to anyone.

* From the PA Home Ed law:
"(i) If the superintendent of the public school district determines, based on the documentation provided, at the end of or during the school year, that appropriate education is not taking place for the child in the home education program,"... then it leads to due process.
http://www.pde.state.pa.us

There is nothing in the law suit about science (evolution or creation). There is nothing in the law suit about other families. It is specific to the religious education of this family's children, not anyone's neighbor's or distant cousins. All of that is meaningless chatter of people's anecdotal stories.

Answer this question by considering our Constitution:
Should a government official (public school superintendent) determine if a religious education is "appropriate", as required by the PA Home Ed law?

It's making sure that the non-religious part of the education actually happens to.

And I would say yes, a government official has a right to determine if a child who is not in a recognized, organized, educational institution is being taught things (in addition to whatever religious instruction the parents want to provide) that will lead to them becoming a productive member of society.

I would argue that denying basic education to your child is a form of abuse and that the government has the right to intervene in the best interests of the child.

And kids in private religious schools in many states have to take the same standardized tests as kids in public schools. Many of those schools are supplemented by public funds in the form of school vouchers and tax rebates. If those schools are not providing a minimum standard of basic education, then the government should have the right to close them.

(The rights of Child Protective Services to remove children from abusive homes, and the rights of law enforcement to arrest pedophiles aren't specifically guaranteed in the constitution either... it doesn't limit government power, it just lays out the most important rights on the understanding that they will be supplemented by common sense.)

to meet a minimal requirements under Pennsylvania law to ensure that children are receiving a minimum number of hours of instruction and that certain subjects are taught at the primary and secondary education levels.

Private religious school have to file either a notarized certification or affidavit of the principal to the Dept. of Education that they are in compliance with these requirements.

Similarly, parents who home school are required submit paperwork which substantiates that the children are receiving the minimum number of hours of instruction and that required subject matter is covered.

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/RegPrivSchl/pennsylv.html

The family in question failed to submit any of the required paperwork to the school district. The fact that the family can prove, years down the road, that their home school program was successful does not exempt them from the law. The law exists to ensure that children are guaranteed the right to some minimal level of education.

The school district ensures that the requirements for instructional hours and course requirements are met. There is no "subjective" evaluation as you stated.

In fact, the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled on this case, when the Newborns, along with 5 other home schooling families filed a civil lawsuit claiming that the reporting requirements for homeschooling infringed upon their religious freedom. The Court ruled against them. The Court interpreted the school district's responsibility as follows:

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania’s education system,
as enacted by the General Assembly, allows parents to satisfy
the compulsory attendance requirement through “home
education programs.” Parents supervising the home education
programs must provide instruction for a minimum number of
days and hours in certain subjects and submit a portfolio of
teaching logs and the children’s work product for review. The
local school district reviews the home education programs for
compliance with the minimum hours of instruction and course
requirements and determines whether each student demonstrates
progress in the overall program. The school district does not
review the educational content, textbooks, curriculum,
instructional materials, or methodology of the program.

The entire ruling can be found here:


http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/pa/RFA_Decision_8-21-08.pdf

Now the Newborns are pursuing on their own the same legal arguments in the Court of Common Pleas. It is a waste of the court's resources.

Schools have to be accredited. If you want to teach your kids at home (or send them to an accredited private school), that is fine; be prepared to do all of the paperwork that schools have to do to *prove* you aren't ignoring them.

The question isn't about their personal religion; the question is "what are you teaching your kids?" You fill in the forms, sign the paper, and you have learned a valuable lesson about the importance of documenting your work (and teaching children is WORK).

Teaching your children your personal religious beliefs as "truth" -- whether that be concerning questions of evolution or giant spaghetti monsters -- is not something the rest of us care about. We do, however, want to make sure your child can function within the guidelines of society by being able to do "crazy" things like, reading, writing, and arithmetic. If your "science" education is a joke, your kid will flunk out in the "real world" (aka college), and that is the way it is. In the meantime, DO THE FREAKING PAPERWORK. And don't pretend you can't communicate your disdain for commonly accepted scientific principals, even as you obey the "letter" of the law by exposing them to it.

In our pristine, ideal utopia everyone is educated, we have saved every child and imprinted upon everyone our vision of the way things should be. Sounds scary doesn't it.

Education is important, surely. But when the government has the ability to supercede the choices of the parents, unless in extreme conditions, is deplorable.