"Who would Jesus deny Health Care to?"

Thanks to the person who came up with this line - I got to use it today at church. Shut the person RIGHT UP who was babbling about not wanting *his* tax dollars to pay for "other people's health care." Then a couple of other folks and I had a discussion about "Sicko" and how companies are using "contractors" who they don't have to provide health insurance for -- engineers, computer professionals, etc. included.

As a positive thing, we did a quick prayer for the leaders of our country, the health care crisis and the economy. I feel like I am making a difference by being the "flaming liberal" who politely won't back down in a roomful of predominantly "Christian Conservatives."

:) Best, Ida

:evilgrin:

Someone should run up a bumper sticker saying that.

Had a flyer in the bulletin asking us to call our rep and Senators and ask them to vote against HR 3200 as currently written.

No ifs, ands or buts....

Tax exempt status can't be revoked for opposing legislation or policy positions. It can be revoked for explicitly opposing a partisan candidate or politcal party.

Whether I agree with the position of the diocese or not (and I don't), the Bishop (and parish priests) have every right under the law to encourage members to oppose legislation that they view as being immoral and/or against the teachings of the church.

What this means is that the laity must become more proactive in their own congregations by whatever means/groups/activities that are available to them. Some of these priests and ministers NEED to be put in their place - which some have CLEARLY forgotten.

a partisan candidate or party can cost a church its tax exempt status. Supporting or opposing a policy, law or proposed legislation can't.


Put in their place in what way? By prohibiting them from talking about the church's positions on issues? I don't have to agree with a position, but I'm certainly not in favor of telling a priest or pastor that they can't or shouldn't discuss it.

Priests and ministers are not supposed to decide what's right and wrong for you. That is not their place.

right and wrong for me. But they are supposed to decide and discuss what's right and wrong from the perspective of the church, which they did. And that is certainly "their place", whether I agree with them or not.

And it's ludicrous to suggest that any private organization, church or otherwise, should be forced to offer a perspective that is against their beliefs/teachings.

It is the congregation who should be taking various perspectives, rather than someone taking their moral authority away from them.

Religious "leaders" should model the moral process, not decide it's outcomes.

works. In fact, I don't know of many churches that would tell people it's OK to do something that the church considers to be wrong.

The diocese is in favor universal healthcare, but the abortion issue is what's causing the opposition to HR 3200 in our diocese.

children.

Truth is by definition inevitable. Those who seek it will find it. In desiring the truth above all else, their errors teach them and they become more true. If they are denied this learning, by having "the truth" handed to them and accepting it by authority, how can they ever do what Jesus did? Follow the truth as far as it took him, even away from his own church to a great extent, staking his own soul on how true he could be without any other assurance, other than his desire for the truth, that he was in fact right, through the garden of Gesthemene where he anguished but went on anyway, and even up to those last few minutes on the cross when he wondered why his Father had forsaken him, he threw his soul into the void trying to do right because it was right not because he was told that it was. Had he been obedient to the moral authority of his time and followed without choosing for himself whether he thought the church true or not, none of that would have happened.

and follow the teachings of the Catholic church. I don't find that to be unusual in religious denominations.

revert to grammar police behavior when all else fails.

***edited to add: bottom line is that there is still absolutely no reason why the parish should have its tax exempt status revoked over this. The priest was well within his rights and within the law to say what he said today.

remark was just a little needle to see what you'd do. I'm not surprised that you are making more of it than you needed to.

I never said to take their tax-exempt status away from them.

Where did I say that Christians don't need to follow Christ???

Make up shit much?

to the church.

Vulgarity, though not un-acceptable otherwise, is bad manners in religious discussions, by the way.

long ago. And I know that for a fact, so maybe I'm a little bitter about the moral authority you see there.

Wouldn't be the first time churches mislead folks and some genuinely good people still come out of them anyway.

you and accepting that risk, you never actually do that.

:rofl:

seriously, if that guy comes back we need to hold on to him, not kill him this time. Instead lock him up and force him to heal our sick.

Maybe figure out a way to extract whatever property it is that does that and put it in a pill form.

that whatever we ask in his name, that he will do?

We oould replace all the missing limbs and sightless eyes while we're at it.

Whose claim would Jesus deny?

:hug:

profitting from healthcare is immoral

it doesn't matter much to them if they benefit or not, it's not about the cost, it's more about denying care to those that they hate.

Thanks for asking!


Oh, and Jesus Christ wouldn't deny healthcare to anyone either. And His opinion holds much greater sway than mine.


:D


--Jesus (but not Christ, obviously)

detractors -- as you did today at your church -- (to quell the doubting Thomases, in the hip parlance of the New Testament) -- and ask them if they really believe that the Galilean's ministry would have quibbled over where help and healing came from -- tax monies or otherwise -- when a genuine need presents itself.

It must be said to the fundamentalists who oppose health care reform that if they cannot connect the dots of visible poverty and visible emphasis on healing which were arguably the most visible components of Jesus' ministry, then their "Chrisianhood" isn't worth a bucket of yak piss.

Make that half a bucket.

"visible emphasis on healing". Yes, there are "spiritual dimensions" but I fear some people have separated them from the here and now.

:hi:

health care initiatives, I'm guessing, are the same rightwing fundies who thought a war in Iraq was a swell idea.

Not sure which New Testament they're consulting, but SOMEBODY needs a new editor!


:hi:

some seriously screwed up leadership now. That gives this old (permanently) fallen Catholic hope.

:hug:

and earth-centered Francis of Assisi model of Catholicism versus the upper echelon top-down rule-giving Vatican model.

What a world of difference.

Sounds like you've been fighting that good fight for a while, and I say more power to ya.

with all of this Militarism. It's gotten out of control.

get back to Lincoln. The fundies need to get back to the Galilean.

They're drifted awfully far away from their sources.