ADD and ADHD, and other learning disabiltiies

Ok I grew up at a time when ADD was not even in the radar. I know I have it. I got the diagnosis at 27, and I use cheap speed (coffee), to keep me more or less focused.

I admit, it was frustrating to no end not being able to do 2+2 =4, not because I was dumb, but because I was so easily distracted. But in a way I think I am lucky. I really didn't know this when I was young.

I have met kids who had the diagnosis early. So instead of going... well, shit, now I get this. Now I know why I have a hell of a problem keeping things more or less in order, and paying attention... it is... but I have ADD... you don't get it, I HAVE ADD... MINE IS WORST THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE... and so on.

Folks, kids have a right to know, but having met many kids like these who use their syndromes as "an excuse" I have to wonder. Are we truly doing them any favors? I am wondering whether we should teach them life skills first?

Oh and yes there are ways I deal with this. For example I have carried one version of an electronic agenda for years now. At times I find myself doing silly things like using alarm clocks, and at times I know it is "out of hand," so I just know that is going to be a bad day. But I have to wonder, are kids learning these skills or just learning that it is acceptable to use this crutch? And I mean this in the best sense of the word not as judgment of the kids?

Now to those of you with a "normal" brain you are missing a wonderful world of multitasking... but that is a whole different matter.

Anyhow, I am thinking of actually talking to one of the recent BUT I GOT ADD, and explaining to the kid (young man) that once he gets out of school, nobody will care. If anything, to HR, you got what? And you want a job... okey dokey. and we all know that actually HAPPENS. Right now he is money to the school district, (yes being very cynical) but once he leaves school, that stops. So I am thinking of trying to explain to him, use this time to learn actual life skills. Blaming the ADD is not going to help when you go out there into the real world...

So any ideas how to approach this?

Either you make asthma/diabetes/arthritis /depression/whatever the central drama of your life, or you say, what can I do to handle this so I can get on with my life.

The real irony is parents trying to get a label on their kids now so they will have extra time for tests like the SAT. I have to agree with you that in the real world, those labels are a red flag to employers.

and in fact diabetes will prevent you from getting jobs in certain things like law enforcement, while a kid with ADD would do very well in EMS... but it is the how to explain to kid, this will only make it harder for you to get ahead in life.

And indeed it could be anything. It is just ADD since that was the issue last night. He literally gave us that excuse ten times in an hour.

And I know it is not an excuse... easily distracted, but he needs to learn how to deal with it, and all I can see is he hasn't. And I had to wonder... are we doing them any favors?

For the record, the only thing I know with my other dramas, is that i need to eat regularly, diabetes, after that... they are not excuses.

In fact, I know someone with ADD and he is struggling in this field. When you have to think fast and in the midst of confusion, ADD is not what you want.

to me it was an ideal fit.

I don't know what to tell you there.

I've been very successful and know a lot of people in the field with ADD.

i knew from beginning he was different and found ways to keep his feet on ground, calm and at peace. serene, lol lol. noise, light, other people cause melt downs, but he was the easiest most accommodating child too.

i said no to the testing and drugs. we did lots of research. i was hands on in classes and worked with teachers. we gave him tools that helped him in this area. every school year i would address less with teacher, and allow him more independence and control. and every year he has progressed and learned to while accept, recognize when he is having issues.

but.... we get so much more from him, being who he is. i wouldn't want him any other way

truly, a nifty kid.

and still, even in the frustrating, and teenager, so easy.

he NEVER got to use it as an excuse. he always had to accept responsibility even when he was in a challenging environment. and learn how to get himself out of trouble, or work the situation for a win on all sides.

no I was tested, not at the insistence of schools it was in the dark ages, but I had knee surgeries so mom knew i was different, and got quite harassed as well.

Yep I got meds... well before it was cool... they helped I'll freely admit.

I got taken off them, in a very bad way, and at 27 I got meds for six months, went to a local support group and learned the skills I never did otherwise.

I was an early adopter of electronic brains. and have not lived without one ever since.

These days it is an IPOD touch, and right now trying a To-Do software on it, the cheap one... and I am a believer in the Get Things Done GTD program, because it works for me.

Oh and LOL after going to that group I have never missed paying a thing. One useful skill to teach your son, pay any bill when it comes in, or if you need to delay it don't put it away, but front and center, so you don't forget.

starts tomorrow.

no preparing teachers. new school. they dont know him. he has been praticing cross country, so a little familiar. we went to school last week with schedule and walked the classrooms, from where he would be dropped off, locker, and route to take to next class. huge school. oh.... the kid is going to be a mess.

last night he pulled out school map and marked and highlighted classes and teachers name, per map. so i was proud he figured that out.

he will pay for groceries and walk away without groceries. or chat and not pay and walk out with groceries. if there is a lot of noise in class, it is a huge fuzz and cant decipher any of it. he phases out and goes away. he is a trip.

change is very hard for him. he NEEDS structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_Things_Done

And if you want I can tell you what has worked for me. COLORED Pens were big, still are big, when editing.

Colored coded folders for school assignments and priorities.


And an Ipod touch works fine as well, and helps a lot, though it may be a source of distraction, You may want to look into an older PDA without music.

And yep I can identify, noisy classroom... I tried the first row for that reason.

wow thanks.

teachers have always set edmund up front. and earlier teachers would be in habit while lecturing to just touch shoulder as they walked by to bring him back. lol. he had great teachers.

i am going to talk to him about what you gave. thanks

once he is mature enough to handle the info, is to me it was a relief to find that fuzzy brain had a name...

And yes sometimes fuzzy brain does not want to go to sleep at night... LOL

geeeez. they say newborns sleep all the time. the newborn would go 8-10 hours without sleeping. horrible at sleeping. so hard for him. we always did a warm bath. half hour or more of cuddle and book. then sleep. same time every night. and nope.... for a decade our house was friggin 24 hours, lol lol. oh.... was/is horrible.

i tell him. sleep is your friend. we need sleep. sleep is good.

taht is so funny

actually i didnt test cause i did not want to drug, but especially not use as an excuse. was always accepting and patient with him, and made sure those around him was. and we always worked at finding tools to help this "weakness". i explained like a weak muscle. had to work it and stay on top of it. some had a challenge in reading. a breeze for him. this was his challenge

but after this thread, adn talking to you, he is set and established. it may be a good time to test him. he is beyond the using as an excuse kinda thing
another thanks. wouldnt have thought about it.

Big Pharm pushes it, and schools & doctors are their pushers for the drugs they want to sell.

Schools like it because it's easier than accepting personalities who don't heel well.

These diagnoses of children help explain away schools which lack patience. It's harder to do as you did, and your approach produces children who don't think from grade school that the answer to every problem is a new pill.

They tried that with my kids in the 1980s and 1990s, and we told them our kids were not getting medicated to go to school. They all did well throughout school. The son they most wanted to medicate is now a college professor of English. What would he be if we started medicating him in grade school for what some consider hyperactivity?

I know there are children with this condition, but it seems to be the most overdiagnosed condition in America.

I agree that it's WAY over-prescribed, but in my case it is a godsend, without it I could not multi-task AT ALL.

But they push the drugs for many who would not be diagnosed for it in Canada or UK, for example.

At some schools, they really push the drugs for any boy who isn't tranquil enough.

I run into a lot of people that think ADD is just bad parenting. :eyes:

Like I said, maybe 20% of those who are diagnosed, and that's probably double the actual number.

When other civilized, English speaking nations have only 10% of the incidence of those conditions, a wise person would want to know why that is true.

Ritalin works for people with ADD and Autism Spectrum Disorders exactly because we have odd reactions to stimulants, giving a "normal" person Ritalin just makes them act as if they were on Speed (which Ritalin is chemically similar to), and in fact is sometimes abused by college students for it's methamphetamine-like effects in "normal" people.

what the problem is. it might be something that has nothing to do with ADD... but it's easier than actually testing them. I believe a lot of kids are taking ritalin when they don't even need it. We made sure emily was tested and diagnosed. and the ritalin helps her immensely... It doesn't turn her into a zombie.... it slows her brain down a bit so she can think before she acts basically. it's sad that people think it's just bad parenting... imagine being a parent with a kid with ADD.... I have spent many years thinking I am a bad parent because no matter what I did Emily would act up.... she would throw her fits and hit other kids.... most kids will behave at least when they are not around their parents... not emily. she was consistent in her behavior. And I was always afraid to take her anywhere.... and it's not like I let her get away with things, either. No matter what I did, it didn't get her to behave.

work in these brains I will tell you know you know it was proper, and when it wasn't

It is called a paradoxical effect, You know what Ritalin is? It is speed, and very much a controlled drug. Yes the prescription looks different than most you have ever probably seen, not only in the US by the way.

If the kid needs the drug the kid will calm down and be able to concentrate and remain on task. The few cases where it was not used properly, kids speed up, and become anxious because it worst in a single dose than taking a full pot of coffee. Yes, it is that fast, that powerful and god dammit most folks don't know this.

No, the reason we have more diagnosis is not because of bad pharma, but because we test more. When you test more, gee golly you diagnose more. Yes, it is that simple. Test for diabetes you will tend to find it Test for ADD et al, you will find it. You don't, well, you will not. Many countries have issues testing the kids, because in some places this is not even considered a real problem or even a possible problem.


Now what is the problem with Ritalin? See what I said about SPEED, so kids on SPEED are very popular among their classmates While these kids get a downer That is the paradoxical effect) their normal counterparts get a high from it.

To use an example you might be able to understand from normal life. If you drink a pot of coffee before going to sleep you might a problem sleeping. If I drink a pot of coffee before going to sleep I will sleep like a baby. Caffeine is a very low grade form of speed. Get it now? Ok, I will have to go pee somewhere during the night, because it is also a diuretic, but that is a whole different story.

It's still diagnosed far, far more in the USA than in English speaking countries with better health care than ours.

The storyline you accept is the one that comports with what you wish to believe. You drink coffee and you think it helps you. Maybe it does. Maybe it's just a caffeine high.

it is diagnosed far less in other countries sine it is tested FAR LESS

Got it now?

This has been an issue of discussion and contention over the last thirty years, when the syndrome was first spoken off, among the psychhiatic communities. It does exist... and in the states it is tested for more often than in other countries.

Why? Who knows? Many theories as to why... but it is real.

Now have a good life... you are anti science and does not matter what is shown to you. We know your mantra, it is all free will

By the way, coffee IS SPEED, and it does have a paradoxical effect. Why do you think people who are NOT diagnosed with it, DRINK Caffeine or use SPEED?

Jeesus age you are THAT DENSE.

a mail order school...

Have a good life... back into the status I have for another DU'er you go... and it is not quite ignore...

I also have a doctorate and spent many years representing all manner of scientists, requiring an understanding of their specialities. I've litigated many complex patent issues, all of which require understanding the science involved.

I understand science.

Good grief, no need to lob personal attacks like "you are THAT DENSE."

that is the IMPRESSION he has given to not just me but others.

By the way, as far as ADD is concerned it is a FACT that the US tests the most for it... when you TEST MORE YOU WILL FIND MORE. It is simple logic.

And that is the evidence we are working with.

And as to personal attacks, he\she likes flame wars.


Another little fact.

Let me ask you something, since you're all about facts. What percentage of psychostimulant prescriptions (like Ritalin) are written by GPs, and what percentage are written by neurologists and psychiatrists?

not my opinion. THAT IS A FACT, whether you like it not, and not because we are insured but becuase the SCHOOLS had taken lead, not the medical community

And if you do not like facts, it is not my fault, have a good life, joining two more people.

I love facts and I love science. I wish you'd link to some.

after all your Friend does the same thing

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/04/27/meds-help-kids-with-adhd-in-classroom.html

http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/c/1443/13716/addadhd-statistics/

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0306987708006063

I could go on

And yes, I guess CDC is also a propaganda center.

Oh yes I forgot

http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/704639

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/354/25/2637

Again I could go on

Yes, the US tests for it more often than other countries. This leads to more false positives and yes, MORE diagnosis... and the wrong use of Ritalin will lead to anxiety, not a slowing brain.

But YOUR FRIEND has no frigging clue about what she is writing. Coffee high, yep that was a good one... when in the paradoxical effect it acts like a DOWNER...

Yep, I have to laugh...

By the way the FIRST TIME I got tested and treated was NOT in the US... SHOCKED, SURPRISED? I mean nobody tests for this crap outside the US or as much as the US. Second statement is correct, first one is not. And yes, it is partly CULTURAL by the by.


Now that we have seen that no, not all of us are talking out of our ass... have a nice day or rather a nice life.

so fragile as you seem to be.

By the way, there's little you could do or say to shock or surprise me. Your reputation precedes you.

Anyone who disagrees with her is obviously an idiot.

Heidi and I disagree quite a bit, but we manage to be civil with one another, while passionately supporting our arguments.

...nothing to do with MMR vaccines and similar scaremongering BS. Asperger's didn't exist as a diagnosis until 1994, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 15.

Or by general practitioners and/or pediatricians?

In consultation with psychiatrists and clinical psychologists who administered various tests.

Yes, ADD is over diagnosed, but that's the only thing in your screeds that is correct.

Spend more time learning and less time lecturing. Read something that doesn't merely confirm what you want to believe. If Britain is prescribing these meds THREE times as much per capita as the USA, and Britain has a much more progressive health care system, doesn't that suggest to you that most medication of students in America is unnecessary? Doesn't it suggest that better instructing of such kids and less medicating is smarter than shoving pills down every kid who fidgets in class?

the only people saying otherwise are Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

And that's a silly allegation.

I have a number of friends and acquaintances whose kids have been diagnosed with ADHD. In too many cases, I see the parents not giving the kid any responsibility around the house or placing any expectation on them. IMHO, it's being used just as much as an excuse for parents to be lazy as it is for the kids, and ultimately isn't doing the kids any favors.

kids need structure, kids with ADD need more structure.

Chaos make me shut down. :(

It's also used as an excuse by some parents who can't seem to put in the time kids needs from their parents. I've seen that many times. Sometimes the kid is not hyperactive, just unhappy and agitated at never being a parental priority. I used to coach when my kids were growing up, and parents who never have time for their kids were often nowhere to be found. The toll on the kids is predictable.

in kids I teach on a number of occasions...

A good special ed teacher will work with kids to do exactly what you're suggesting, help them developing coping strategies. And they do it in a way that's direct (but not belittling at all). Ours does a great job of focusing on self-directed accommodations without enabling them to use their disabilities as an excuse.

he is one of the gaming group. And truly it is the BUT I HAVE ADD... which does not work with either me or my husband. He is two years from college... so if this the way he acts outside the gaming group... it will be trouble

(if you don't mind my asking)

Two things immediately come to mind. One is that my students - particularly the male ones who have ADD - don't seem to really act mature until their final years of high school. I don't know if that's a combo of guys maturing later and them outgrowing the worst of it, or how much is due to strategies they learn in our school.

The other is that at that age a big lecture about how they need to act in the future isn't effective with any teens I know, including myself as a former teen. It's met fairly universally with eye rolling in my experience, and in the teen's mind it's about adults and their ongoing need to lecture. It's probably more effective just to focus on a specific strategy for whatever is causing problems, which is why I asked about it.

just feeling out for info. no facts

I tend to use them interchangeably, but I shouldn't. (One more reason why I'm not a special ed teacher)

little pieces of all three. so i call it fuzzy brain. lol. really doesnt matter the label. just different.

but none of the H. no impulsive or hyper. and thank god, lol.

Attention Hyperactivity Deficit Disorder, more common among boys

Women are diagnosed less often because they are seating quietly in their chairs day dreaming but not jumping off the walls.

This is quite the broad brush, but the first time I read it, it made sense.

verbal and articulate at early age. high reading skills. skilled in communication. in touch with feeling. very mature. adult like. even very young

it is chokeful of life skills as well.

Was written by an MD who is also an ADDer... so he knows what he talks about.

My copy is somewhere in storage.

i have been given some really good, interesting ones from teachers. one even bought me a book. different learning skills ect...

to bring him back to the task at hand, which is one he is interested in. I shudder is he is truly not interested.

It may be his day off, meds... that does happen.

And that is why I am leery about talking to him. I was thinking of more the ok here are some things that work FOR ME and my ADD. Just bring to his attention actual skills, like the use an alarm clock to keep you in focus. for the game we could just use a three minute clock.

And highly suggesting a Get Things Done system. Perhaps, just because it helps me, exercise. I have discovered a healthy addiction to endorphins. After a good workout I can focus for a couple hours, and I am "wasting that" right now asking about this.

:-)

No, telling him this could cause you trouble later in life will be more like talking to the wall. I think the wall will get it faster.

on his part. So yeah, I'd skip the Big Lecture, and instead pull him aside and let him know that the wandering off is causing a distraction for other people in the room, or frustrating for you. I like the idea of giving him skills and acknowledging that he needs occasional breaks and occasional discipline for staying focused. A timer for staying focused is good - but maybe also a timer for how long the breaks last.

For some of my students, getting up and getting a drink of water out in the hall is enough of a break that they can refocus and come back and sit for a while.

sadly dad is the worst of the three... his brother also has it.

But I think enforcing some time will help to get mind focused...

I know what I speak off. at times when working I need to do the DU thing, not as a reward, but a rest from hyper focusing. So I know he gets tired.

labeled ADHD with no problems. Until there is a clear empirical test, the question of who has mild ADHD, who has major ADHD and who is just looking for an excuse to act out will remain.

Again, I think agree with the OP that too many people take a diagnosis of any kind of chronic condition or disability as an excuse for not achieving. Deal with your problem, then get on with life. Both FDR and JFK could have used their poor health as an excuse to withdraw from public life. In fact, FDR's mother was all set to treat him as an invalid until Eleanor stepped in.

He had trouble focusing, to a point that was scary sometimes...

He is in his mid 20's now, and still takes ritalin.

I have met many people with ADD/ADHD.

The first was a co-worker, in his early 30's, when my son was still pre-teen.

I know the controversy surrounding the use of ritalin to treat ADD/ADHD, and the over-prescription of this medication.

But meeting this person, a well adjusted fully functional human being, who had also taken ritalin for a lifetime, gave me some relief from my fears.

If my son turned out as well adjusted as this man, then I would feel I made the right choice for my son.

One thing I have learned, being among people with ADD/ADHD, some of them my bosses, is that they have an uncanny ability to respond well in crisis situations.

When there is an emergency, and seconds count, I hope to God there is a person with ADD/ADHD to take charge and make decisions.

What I have learned is that these are highly intelligent, highly capable individuals who live in the moment.

These are people who live, not in the past, not in the future, but in the very moment. Their scope of attention is narrow; it is only the present. But when the present is the most important moment in the world, there is no better person to handle the situation than a person with ADD/ADHD.

If you want a good fighter pilot, with situational awareness, get a person with ADD/ADHD.

If you want an officer that makes the right call in the middle of a firefight, get a person with ADD/ADHD.

If you want a fireman that can make life or death decisions, whether to go into a burning building or not, get a person with ADD/ADHD.

My son is a nurse now. He has the reputation of making the most rapid response calls of any nurse on the floor.

All of them, the right call.

All of them saved a life.

Is ADD/ADHD a disability?

In my honest opinion, no.

Not if your life is on the line.

autistics. It makes a lot of sense that in any group of people, we have some whose brains are tuned a little differently. Sometimes it takes therapy and/or drugs to allow us outliers to function in society, but I really think society needs us.

Congratulations on your son's success. I think the OP would love to introduce hom to the kid she is concerned about!

All are thought to have had Asperger's.

No ADD = no Ben Franklin, no Alexander Graham Bell, no Beethoven.

your son has grown up to be an effective person.

Good for him.

He never learned to use it as a crutch. As to the controversy with Ritalin, I know why it is controversial... and in my view if it works, use it.

I got it back in the dark ages. Then in my late twenties I got welbutrin, not Ritalin... and these days I get coffee... there are a few days I wonder about it being enough... but with all the pills I take anyway for the diabetes and hyperlipidemia... I'll stick to coffee.

By the way, the only thing that stopped me from medical school, was precisely that distraction... so I went into history, and was the damn best medic, incident commander... and have taken charge in a few emergencies later on. I was told, you got a hell of an emergency clinical eye. Sounds like so does your son.

Hugs

and of the man he has become.

Your comments remind me of some of the things I have heard him discuss about ADD/ADHD.


Thom Hartmann's approach showing the differences between "Hunters" and "Farmers": http://www.thomhartmann.com/2007/11/01/thom-hartmanns-hunter-and-farmer-approach-to-addadhd/

Very interesting.

analogy very well

And yes if I am in a hunter gatherer community I want some folks with ADD...

I seem to have drawn the same conclusion on my own.

Interesting.

Thank You!

:applause:

What are the consequences of not knowing? Is that going to be worse than developing bad habits by having a ready excuse?

I was diagnosed -- finally -- with an impulsive form of ADD a couple years ago, when I turned 47. If I'd figured it out earlier and gotten treatment, I think I would have been more successful in college and in my professional career. About a decade of my life was wasted either being underemployed or languishing somewhere well past the time I should have moved on, and just maybe I would have been more in control if I'd had methylphenidate a few decades earlier.

You're right, the multitasking thing can be very nice and useful, and "hyperfocus" is a very enjoyable state of consciousness... provided that a straw that breaks the camel's back doesn't come along and cause a meltdown. (My wife has a special talent for causing those. If it's one of those times when I... just ... can't ... talk ... right ... now about something that can wait until later, it's perceived as a brush-off, an insult, then she starts yelling, and I'm useless for a few hours.)

Another side benefit is I'm never, ever bored.

and the reason... I could NOT FOCUS long enough to edit my *)&^**(& Thesis...

A friend recommended I get tested... and it was kind of "fuzzy brain" has a name...

My speed is coffee, but that is by choice... and that and exercise mostly does the trick... mostly. I also use a slew of tricks.

So that is why I wonder at times... if and when... to tell kids

... my nephew being a case in point. I don't know what will become of that boy; without his mother watching his every move (as she had done all his life before) he ended up failing out of college early on, and now all his friends are graduating and he's stuck in a very nowhere job. He has a true disability.

Mild-to-moderate ADD can probably be dealt with by teaching the tricks of how to get along -- and by saying that there's a Bell curve for everything, including how we perceive the world and interact with it, and that you're not crazy or lazy, just different, and that you have to learn how to deal with that just the same as dealing with nearsightedness by getting glasses. This is my fantasy of an ideal world: Yes, you are different, and here are some ways to deal with the world so that your differences work to your advantage.

I had to figure all of this out myself. My poor mother was strictly a "Farmer" (in Thom Hartmann's term) and she called me all kinds of names like passive-aggressive, because I could not conform to her idea of what a bright child should be achieving academically. An A in English and a D in Chemistry were beyond her comprehension, and she kept threatening to yank me out of the college prep track and make me take typing classes. We went through this every single report card from 7th grade until I left home in my 3rd year of college, never to return except for visits.

I am grateful to my mom for many things, like knowing I was smart and emphatically saying so. She taught me to love the learning that comes from books. But she took my differences very personally, and it did impact my self-esteem. A lot.

I figured it out for myself when I read Hartmann's book for a class in grad school when I was nearly 50. I actually cried -- it would take much too long to explain why. Psychological testing confirmed mild-to-moderate ADD, plus good coping techniques, etc. The good news is I finished grad school and got a PhD; although it was horrible trying to sustain the focus for the dissertation, even for a subject I love.

Hekate

...that "made up excuses" and "made big deals out of nothing" by teachers and other adults for various things like having trouble taking notes and pay attention at the same time, lashing out at peers that took advantage of my sensory sensitivities to get away with tormenting me, and other things. I'm still dealing with the emotional scars of depression and anxiety, and PTSD left by that crap. I have trouble holding down a job because of those psychological problems.

kids have a way of knowing... and chiefly torturing their class mates. Their favorite games were sharp objects... and the school did NOTHING... and it was always my fault.


Oh and lazy, made up excuses et al.. yep, sounds more than just familiar.

I see them as continuing from mild ADD to Aspergers and Autism.

I am so happy not to live in the same city, oh wait the same country as some of these people.

And teachers would never understand why I was so obsessed about making sure there was space between my seat and the desk behind me. :eyes:

I don't think most "normals" will get it.

:-)

EWWWWW!!! evil stuff! :scared:

and itchy sweater...

:-)

Never could abide those "invisible threads" made out of what feels like fishing line. Or metallic threads woven into fabrics. Have started having to remove labels from shirts.

Odd thing: when I was taking care of my mom, I found so many clothes with the labels cut out. Ha.

Hekate

We know the feeling, don;t we?

(Warning, the site in the link has a lot of new age BS that I don't subscribe to)
http://samsara.ihostyou.com/highly-sensitive-person

#
Needing about 5 hours alone time to every 2 hours spent out in the world.
#
Emotionally drained or exhausted when a friend becomes troubled. (Ya think? :cry: )
#
Inability to express to my satisfaction to another person how I?m feeling.
#
Wondering how other people could *take everything in stride.*
#
Introspective. Deeply reflective.
#
Easy feelings of something is about to happen though no indicators.
#
Feeling another person's energy.
#
Very sensitive to electricity, energy, vibrations.
#
Acute hearing.
#
Absorbing others moods, feelings, energy.
#
Trouble with relating myself to others.
#
Intensely troubled and sensitive to others suffering.
#
Used alcohol or other inappropriate means to deaden the feelings.
#
Spiritually wrestling almost since a small child.
#
Feeling very different and wondering always what was the secret I was missing.

I'm googling for the list I remember and haven't found it yet, but my recollection of it is somewhat different from yours. Elain Aron seems to be all over the subject, though. Google for "highly sensitive person traits" and follow the leads from there -- I'm already scanning the 4th page.

In any case, best of luck.

Hekate

and i have prayed for add to no avail O8)
:kick:

:-)

This report is under a year old. It's reported from The Journal of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Mental Health.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/09/24/adhd-guide.html

The title:
"Use Ritalin only as last resort for kids with ADHD, guidelines say"

The subtitle:
"Ritalin use higher in U.S. than Europe"

And some text:

A study published in Thursday's issue of The Journal of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Mental Health found children in the U.S. are about three times more likely to be prescribed stimulants like Ritalin and antidepressants such as Prozac, compared with children in Europe.

Julie Zito of the pharmaceutical health services research department at the University of Maryland in Baltimore and her colleagues in the U.S., Germany and the Netherlands looked at prescription levels in the three countries.

"Direct-to-consumer drug advertising, which is common in the U.S., is also likely to account for some of the differences. The increased use of medication in the U.S. also reflects the individualist and activist therapeutic mentality of U.S. medical culture," Zito said in a release.

The study's authors also pointed to differences in government regulatory restrictions and cost restrictions on Europe and the larger number of child psychiatrists per capita in the U.S.

It never says that the kids didn't have ADHD just that they were prescribed stimulants much more often than in other countries. It seems to me that the kids could have ADHD that was controllable by other means and that the doctors are likely to prescribe medication early in treatment, likely because it's what the parents want. The over prescription of stimulants doesn't necessarily mean that ADHD is over diagnosed. It could simply be lazy doctors and parents taking the easy way out. But hey who wants to discipline their kid when they can shove a pill down their gullet.

If you want to believe it's not about over diagnosis, that's your choice.

When better health care systems than ours prescribe only a third as many meds per capita, when consumers are driven to get those meds by advertising and propaganda here, as it references, the problem is over diagnosis. We have doctors and drug companies pushing the drugs here, and they work in tandem to over diagnose and over treat. They pass out ritalin like breath mints, and they do so based upon diagnoses.

They discuss it throughout the article.

Your position, which is somewhat childish, is that the term "over diagnosis" never appears verbatim.

The topic is over diagnosis and over medication. If you can't read a paragraph and understand it, you should work on that.

The article never even implies that ADHD is overdiagnosed only that parents and doctors too quickly resort to prescription stimulants in treating mild cases of it.

Too, I have to wonder:
1. How many Ritalin prescriptions are written after a child is examined only by a pediatrician or GP, and how many are written by neurologists and/or psychiatrists.
2. Of the GPs and pediatricians prescribing Ritalin, how many are trained and qualified to diagnose neurobehavioral disorders?
3. How many parents follow up on the recommendation of parental training?
4. How many parents follow up on psychological therapy for their children in parallel to Ritalin therapy?
5. How many children taking Ritalin are seen annually by a qualified phyisician?

That's a real concern. In many public schools, the default position is "your kid needs Ritalin, get them on it." Advertising to the public is one of the ways it is "sold" to the parents, many of whom simply don't know and don't have the resources to deal with a school district which wants kids medicated.

More teacher-led instruction, fewer group activities, less interaction among students, students don't speak unless spoken to.

Which leads to a far calmer environment.

The worst was a local high school, which had a large open room with multiple classes going on. Movable dividers and chalkboards were the only barriers between the classes.

Maybe it's not the student who needs adjusting, but the class room experience.

Our schools have capitulated to the industry which pushes pills for children from the time they're toddlers through school years. It's easier to find the child needs meds than to suggest the school administrators need to do a better job of running schools.

group works.

2nd grade his teacher was scattered and it was a year of tough. then he had a math class last year where they were left to do a lot amongst themselves.

that class works well for a lot of students. works better for some students. so hard to say that the children that need that structure must be the only one accomadated. it is something we recognized though so took appropriate steps to help son in those classes

We need to be open to the idea that schools need to have such classes for kids who do need them. The open class room environment simply doesn't work well for some kids, while working well for others.

There was a lot less time for ahem mischief, as it were.

That said, this observation applied to years ago. Now other countries are adopting this freer way to teach kids. It is also cultural.

And it is hard to explain how different things were.

I will give you a silly example.

When I was growing up, all the way to first semester of college (in Mexico) nobody would even think of bringing a coffee cup to the class. Eating in class is something that was verbotten, not done... not kosher. You would not even think of it. These days that has changed by the way.

First semester at American university you can imagine my shock, and cultural clash when kids brought their coffee, hot chocolate, hell full lunch into class and started chomping away.

Now I can tell you, having a structured class only means that letting the mind wander is a little different... but it still happens.

It is things like you are doing a math drill, and for reasons that I cannot explain to you insteand of putting the right answer you write another. Or if you are dyslexic, you write a letter backwards. My teachers knew I wasn't dumb, and I got all kinds of tutoring, and the constant was... she is so easily distracted, the fly passes by my mind wonders. Yep that was the joke, and so true.

As I said, it is tested far less abroad... we have issues with mental health, but nothing compared to some other cultures where ADD is not an excuse, but stigma. In fact, I wonder if that was the reason why I was really not told. Oh and before you say it... Ritalin was a god send, for as long as it lasted. Hell, in those cultures we would not even be having this discussion, ok.

And I am sure some folks will try to tell me I am wrong about that too.

Ritalin is not used that much any more. There are more refined meds that do a better job. Strattera is a non-stimulant med for AD/HD and 10% of patients are given this if they don't tolerate the stimulants.

You really are behind on your info.

It's current. You're not.

she said Risperidal is pretty common, named a couple others (Strattera, Vyvanse) but not any Ritalin.

If Dr.'s are prescribing it for ADHD they are doing so off label, which is doubtful given the clinical studies. Ritalin is the oldest of the stimulant based meds for ADHD side effects often push people to the newer meds, although Adderall is still very common.

when he has trouble attending to him/her. There are a whole host of situations were there will be challenges. My brother and both my sons deal with that every day and they've been out of school a long time.

And a crutch is a tool, not a dirty word.

This whole "blaming ADD" or "using it as an excuse" thing only means the kid hasn't found a way to turn it around yet. It's not something to talk him out of. It's where he's starting from, just like anyone else. People start from somewhere. :)

I could not finish my turn or had to walk away from moving models IS an excuse.

Now being easily distracted when doing homework and things you do not like, yeah that happens, it is part of it. Or going from one task to the next,

So there can be frustrations, but since we both know how it is, we don't let it get in our way.

they were adults. In college, i believe. My daughter also has ADHD. and one thing you learn is that they tend not to actually diagnose as much as throw meds at kids. So there are probably plenty of kids out there who are taking ritalin who may not even have ADD or ADHD but it's easier than dealing with them.

Now I said my daughter was diagnosed. We had to fight with people to get her tested. I went to the doctor and was given a prescription, even though I had asked to have her tested. Then we went to the school and finally got a list of places to take her after we assured the school that we would have our insurance pay for it. And she was tested and shown to have ADHD. And the doctor there said she seemed like she would actually benefit from meds.... so we put her on them. And it helps. doesn't fix it. She still has issues.... but I do not allow the diagnosis to be a crutch.

We have always struggled with Emily and behavior. You can see her mind racing.... And her brain is moving so fast she doesn't have time to even think. She is very smart... and didn't fit in the school's mold of ADHD. I guess they prefer to wait until the grades suffer to do anything. But she was acting up in class.... and she was hitting other kids. She spent a lot of time in the principal's office. I had a system to get her to behave... The teacher sends home some idea of how she was in school.... like a stoplight... and Emily could earn a half an hour of tv. This only works when the teacher cooperates, which most did.

It was and continues to be frustrating. She is 100 times better now, but still has her issues. The meds help her, but they by no means solve the problem. they basically give her time to think before she acts. But a diagnosis is not just medicine... It gives a parent an avenue with the school.... more leeway in how the school deals with my daughter. From giving her more time for tests to having rules in place for getting reports from teachers and such... which otherwise you are at the mercy of the teacher. Most want to work with you, as you share a common goal... And I made sure the teachers understood where I was coming from... i do not blame the teachers... and I want to make sure my daughter is getting her education and not hurting others chance to get their education.

True, a diagnosis can become a crutch. But that is only if you let it.... as a parent. Kind of like how my mother was told I'd never walk or talk and would be mentally retarded.... Well, I am not. I can walk and talk.... and I did very well in school. And any time Emily even ventures into trying to blame her ADHD for something, I explain to her that while the meds might help her brain slow down a bit, she is ultimately responsible for her actions. She knows right and wrong.... and she has no excuse.

It used to be pretty bad. I'd have to hold her down and restrain her when she had meltdowns. There was no talking to her... no reasoning with her.... I would just have to hold her down and try to get her to calm down. Those are few and far between these days. The key is structure.... and rules.... in school she tends to be put in well structured classes. The times she has always had the most chance of troubles were in gym and lunch.... less structured times. And I am very consistent with the rules... I prefer to let her earn things rather than have to take away, but I do ground her if the incentives don't work.

Emily is 10 now.... going into 5th grade. And it's always a struggle. But I think that at least with a diagnosis it gives you something to work with.... and work around.... and Emily can look at her uncle who is an Engineer and see that she can do anything if she works hard. That there is no excuse for her to not do her best and try. The kid is almost unconsciously going to try to use anything as an excuse if they don't feel like doing something... it is up to the parents to make sure that it isn't an excuse. However they decide to treat it.... be it diet, or medicine... never let it be an excuse. You can see kids out there with no limbs doing amazing things.... that is because it wasn't allowed to be an excuse.

I remember those meltdowns, very well.

Good luck, the worst is the teen years...

But it sounds like she has a responsible parent.

she's practicing hard! LOL!

He never talked about his problem. He excelled in college and is very successful.

after 3 years i had built an immuinity to ritalin. desepramine as well. (that was for the night terrors, sleep walking - sleep violence)

after a couple more years i had built an immunity to dexedrine, and then imipram. by the time i was 17 i was on depecote (lithium). when i was 19 i lost my insurance and decided to "take myself off of meds".

i self medicate with smoking, coffee, mountain dew.

i don't use my "condition" as an excuse, but it is perceived as though i am every time i have to remind someone that i am the way i am due to whatever space out adventure i was having at the moment. people who don't have it don't comprehend how truly far the rabbit hole goes.

so, knowing that people are going to say phooey to me ever mentioning the mere existence of my "condition" i have learned to just not mention it, and let them think i'm nuts.

not sure if that's answering your question, because after typing all of that i have to admit i already forgot your question.

my sons issues. until the time came that they saw it in action. then they would sit flabbergasted, and wow, wow.... wow.

gotta take these people with a grain of salt cause it is their moment to come to recognition. cant convince people that are clueless.

another i had to teach son and he had to accept.

one day at a time.

just like with everything else in life, there will always be assholes that aren't understanding. you said it best when you said "cant convince people that are clueless.".

good life lesson. it applies to a million other scenarios.

I had mild ADD as a kid and still had a 3.5 GPA. I had to work harder than most and no one was prescribing medication back then, but my parents weren't about to cut me any slack for my learning disability because the world doesn't cut us any slack. Once I hit my mid-30's my ADD kicked into overdrive (same thing happened to my aunts at that age). Now I take Adderall, avoid sugar and caffeine, exercise, eat whole foods...do whatever I can to function well enough to work and earn a living. Yeah, it takes me two hours to do what most people can in 45 minutes,so I have very little free time. Bottom line; no one cares, and your disability makes you less attractive to employers. So it's all on him to read about ways of coping with his ADD; the world won't cut him one ounce of slack. In fact, the world will punish him for being imperfect. So he MUST learn how to fake it. America is a very cold place for those who aren't healthy, ultra-productive and rich. The sooner he understands that the better.

that was what the nun who taught my son in second grade told us when we went to our first parent teacher conference some 15 years ago.

By that time, we had already had him to neurologists and child psychiatrists because we knew there was something going on. We found out that in addition to him having ADHD, he also suffered from petit mal seizures and that was as much a contribution factor to his ability to learn than anything.

We did all the things suggested, color coding his books, index cards, quiet rooms and medication.

But there is a big trade off to medication. I know from my son's point of view, he didn't like being a zombie at school. That's one of the effects of medication. That was a bigger effect for him than the loss of appetite that he had. That's also one of the hardes decisions parents have to make in dealing with whether or not to keep medicating teenagers once he hit that age. When he started high school, we decided to stop the meds and hope that the other things he had learned to deal with it would make up for it. Unfortunately for him it didn't, but that's not to say that it can't work. It didn't for him due more to environmental (i.e. school/peer pressures) that he couldn't handle.

My son's 23 now. There's days when he has more trouble dealing with things than others. I've told him basically welcome to adulthood. He hasn't been on the meds for a few years, but he still knows that there are times when he should be better organized and structured. He's getting there and I think he understands that he has to live his life slightly different from his friends. He understands the importance of keeping his schedule of appointments and bills on his phone organizer. We never thought back in the day when it would take him 3 hours to do a half hours worth of homework that he would turn out like he has.

I'm a very proud of him, even though he still has issues.

I find my Electronic brains to be a god send

Although the majority of children with ADHA/ADD are male, my daughter we diagnosed with ADHD at age 5. She has other health issues, therefore Ritalin was not a recommended treatment. It was hard work and took alot of patience on my part (as well as her teachers and physicians) but she is now a successful university student. My dear friend, on the other hand, has a beautiful 11 year old boy who wakes up every day and gladly takes his Adderall because he knows it helps him concentrate and perform better in school. On the weekends he has the choice of whether to take it or not and you can generally tell if he hasn't by the construction going on in the driveway. He seems more creative without the pills but definately more kinetic.

:toast:

people who nee therapy and medication, and people who are placed on medication improperly. There are cultural factors in play besides pharmaceutical profits.

This is how completely Big Pharm has sold the use of drugs for kids. The default position on every childhood problem is "get them on meds." They've sold the schools, the parents, and the media, all of which are also sold on telling kids "don't do drugs, they're bad!"

http://www.drugpatentwatch.com/premium/preview/detail/index.php?searchtype=alpha&category=Tradename&searchstring=RITALIN%20LA

The pharmocological mechanisms are very similar to cocaine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

Just pointing out the logical fallacy of the argument.

him with (if I recall correctly) just the basic diagnosis of ADD. Said friend was not really satisfied with diagnosis because something just wasn't "right". She went to a different doc in a different town. Found out the kid is allergic to yeast. Symptoms.. violent out burst, confusion, ADD like symptoms. She was extremely relieved to find this out BUT do you know yeast is in just about EVERYTHING!

Not saying this is common,just goes to show what another poster said, some docs are all to willing to drug kids for all the wrong reasons.

The drugs used for ADD (for that matter any drug used in medical care) are not sugar pills.

And with ADD it is essential because the diagnostic criteria are mostly behavioral... but there are things that we THINK lead to higher rates

Clusters, yes genetics... as usual

Premies have a higher rate as well.

And I could go on...

and certain behaviors when young, well before you can make a good diagnosis are indicators.

If a doc tells me a four year old needs ritalin, that doctor can go pack sand though. You really cannot make a diagnosis that has ANY value to it before age six. And I would be asking not only for a second opinion, but retesting every so often. We know the brain does change with age and development, and some kids do get better... while others do not.

Not my opinion, but that of many a doc I have talked to about this...

Oh and Ritalin is the first line, but not the only drug, and some kids do fine with just coffee... the cheap speed in coffee is ENOUGH. (granted these are mild, or kid can adapt)

Now the US does test more than other countries, and it is cultural. A class I took on drug abuse years ago.., US Culture is one that believes a pill will solve everything. Now here is a shocker, this little cultural trait goes well before the rise of modern pharma... so those who scream BUT PHARMA, need to go take a class of the history of medicine in the US... It is a trait that goes back to at leat the mid 19th century.

She went on meds at age 16, and wow, what a difference! Vastly improved grades, higher self-esteem, calmer, less irritable, actually pleasant to be around. Now that she is out of high school, she has opted to not take her medication. Her choice. Her brain seems to have matured to the point that she doesn't have quite the same behaviors that necessitated medication.

That said, I never once asked the school to help her in any way. The world does not care that she has ADD, so it was important for her to learn to roll with it. And she has, for the most part.

I'm not sure if ADD is a learning disability, either...

new connections going on during adolescence that she needed the extra medication then but not now. Or, maybe the medication helped rewire her brain to the point where she could adapt.

How many people are aware that Ritalin works by changing dopamine levels? Call it amphetamine and everyone thinks of uppers. Mention dopamine and people may get a better idea what's going on.

thank-you:)

I was never given any slack

Vyvanse. My husband has ADHD and my two kids have it also. It's a neurological "disorder" (hate that word) and it's generally inherited. I also teach Special Education. One of the things that I've noticed with parents, doctors, and teachers is that the LOAD of mis-information is more abundant than the actual truth. I try to explain ADD/ADHD as a lamp that is plugged into a electrical outlet. Cut the cord in the middle and the energy from the cord plugged into the electrical socket is full of energy, but the other part is dead. What the medicine does is bridge that "energy" from the electrical socket over to the "dead" cord. Basically, that's the layman's term for neurons that aren't firing in our brain!

When I was first diagnosed, I sat on the floor of my scarcely-furnished-apartment and cried like a baby. Not because I had been diagnosed with this "strange disorder," but that there was finally a name to this "fog." Then I got mad. I felt like I had been ripped-off in so many ways. Why wasn't this diagnosed years before? Why didn't my parents do something? Why? Why? Why? Then I started researching anything and everything I could find on it. I was bound and determined to find a way to make up for what I thought I had "lost." That was over 15 years ago and while I do still get angry at some of the ignorant stuff going around about it, I can understand it much better too.

I was one who fell through the cracks in school because ADD/ADHD has what we in CHADD (Children and Adults with ADD) call "friends." By having "friends" I mean ADD/ADHD almost always accompanies some form of learning disability. I have what's called dyscalculia. There's dyslexia--more commonly known--and many others. It doesn't have anything to do with IQ levels, but how the brain processes data. I didn't know I had that until my daughter started having trouble in 3rd grade Math. Her teacher was an awesome teacher, but she didn't know how to break things down in Math so my daughter could understand it. While helping her with her homework, I showed her ways that worked for me (much more than I can write here) and she "got it." I talked with her teacher and from that moment on, she was a different type of "learner." Also, my daughter is simply unable to focus when not on her meds.

I often wonder where the "break-down" is with understanding ADD/ADHD because those of us who have it KNOW we do--even though some won't admit it. I think there is the group who just want to know what to do to help their child, spouse, family member, student, and then there are those--probably like me--who are hungry for all the info they can get on it. When I first found out I had it, I joined an adult support group meeting. It was awesome because there were lawyers in three-piece suits, teachers, and all walks of life who attended. No one socio-economic group is immune.

As a teacher, I NEVER tell a parent that their child needs to be on meds, even though I may privately think so. It's definitely their call. It's our job as parents and teachers to make sure we are doing all we can to help those understand this baffling "disorder." I always tell my kids and students that they cannot use ADD/ADHD as a crutch, because not only is it not accepted in the "real world," but it's a cop-out. I tell them to use the gifts that so often come with having ADHD/ADD which will show and enhance their exceptional talents.:) They have to take responsibility for their choices--good or bad. People with ADD/ADHD often lack the ability to be introspective.

BTW, I read Driven to Distraction and shortly after that, Dr. Hallowell (wrote the book with Dr.Rately) came to my city for a workshop. I attended and got him to sign my book!! It was pretty awesome. Unfortunately, I loaned the book to my ADHD sister-in-law and she lost it. Go figure...:eyes:

those who have it, just know.

Here is a joke they used with me... she gets distracted by the flight of a fly.

understand those with ADD/ADHD? I talk to a lot of parents and some seem so interested, so I'll recommend several good ADD/ADHD books for them to read and the next time I see them, I'll ask if they read it and nine times out of ten, they haven't.

Do you think that there is "disconnect" or break-down because of the medical jargon or what? Do they just want us to "learn" it for them? I'm trying to come up with new ideas to reach my kids who need to learn how to cope with having ADD/ADHD and those --whether it be parents or friends--who just don't understand it.

I've heard all the bullshit that goes around about ADD/ADHD being a "parent who doesn't know how to discipline their kid," to "ADHD/ADD is just 'in their mind...'" :eyes: My doctor (I see a neurologist for my ADD) and I were talking about this and he said, "they just don't understand that you can't MAKE an ADD/ADHD child sit still." Some seem to think it's caused by too much sugar, or food allergies, blah, blah, blah. Well, I'm here to tell you, while sugar and food allergies are very real toward affecting behavior and health, it's NOT the reason for ADD/ADHD!

Sometimes I just want to give up--and then I see a post like yours. Thanks for keeping the dialog going.:)

Basically the reasoning is "back in my day these here kids would have behaved after they got a belt in the ass" or similar BS.

I mean there are no difference between people... and gosh darn it all kids should be the same.

As to your kids... some folks will nod in comprehension and will go, we get it.

Most shake their heads and go EXCUSES.

Now it also depends on the kid or the adult.

I freely admit, keeping a clean house is a pain in the rear, I work at it. I get help too. But I actively work at it. And some people understand. Some don't and that is the way it is.

As to the nine out of ten, if they are family they are probably the most judgmental...

In my almost 1/2 century, I've known between 5-10 adults who would qualify for honest-to-goodness ADD/ADHD.

What they all have or had in common was that they are the type of people of whom you might say, "if he hadn't found something constructive to do with his hands, he'd be in jail."

None of these people ever tried to use their condition as an excuse for acting like an asshole, however.

we are talking about a teen here. You know teens, right?

Why I was asking how to approach this.

Now to your comment about jail... some folks do end in jail due to it, but that goes for so many mental "disorders" it is not even funny. I used the quotation on this since some of the things we think of as disorders, in the proper environment can be a true gift.

to a school district. Special ed is probably the LEAST cost-effective way to deliver services. I was a sped teacher, I had 12 students on my caseload yet got paid the same as a red ed teacher that had 23. We pay our occupational and physical therapists upwards of $70/hour. Sped kids do not=more money for a district, and school districts do not 'label' them as such to get more $.

myths have their origin in some reality... like legends.

Perhaps it is not the way these days, but I am not so sure that was the case in the past.

Special needs kids have special needs. That translates into services. That translates into paying for services which come from two sources:

1. Feds provide $ to states who then provide funds to school districts to serve special needs students.

2. Feds have NEVER, read it again, NEVER, fully funded the IDEA mandate that Congress passed. SO the rest of the money needed is paid from the general fund of the school district which then impedes programming possibilities for a range of services to all students.

Quit being argumentative- you're wrong.

myths have an origin. All myths have them...

It might not be this way TODAY... but as I typed, it might not have been that way in the past, when schools were far better funded.

As I said, you want to change this. educate people as to why this myth is not the case TODAY

I am done with the lecture. Just told you something that is real. Myths have an origin SOMEWHERE. Figure where and correct it.

Hell, if you told me there is corruption in the Red Cross, and I worked in it. I'd not argue with you since i know there is a nugget of truth in there.

IN a few cases it is even exposed in news papers.

I am sure the origin of this is based in a fact, a case or a few cases. Hell I know of one in particular that involves a relative who's parents were told by their district that their kid was going to cost them money when he left the Special Ed services... ok... they were THAT BLUNT. So give me info that tells me this is not going on TODAY.

Now go on, lecture me some more as to why it is not the case today instead of giving me hard data to help you.

Look kiddo...just research IDEA and its funding. Not hard. If you are going to assert the argument--its yours to research, not mine.

And you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

was that this hard?

Aparently

and started in 2006 from what I can see

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/home

That is all I wanted.

is that wrong?

Apparently

Bye

your lie wrong?

Unfuckingbelievable. I worked sped. I have heard my special ed director many, many times say delivery of sped services is a costly and unefficient way to deliver services. One kid may require resource minutes, occpuational, speech, AND physical therapy with special transportation on top of it. Tell me how that is making money for a district. Sometimes we even pay tuition to schools that may be a better environment for students. Let me tell you, ABA therapy for autism is EXPENSIVE.

But you keep believing your little myth.

that was very hard for you.

And yes I am RIGHT NOW readying on IDEA. Since you are in Special Education, you know what that is.

Bye.

Horseshit your ass.

By the way in the past I have GIVEN PEOPLE starting research points

And to "my myth." IT is NOT MY MYTH it is a MYTH. HOW DO YOU THINK THEY START? THINK and try to educate people instead of driving potential allies away.

Good night, have a fucking good life, or not, I don't give a shit either way. Back to researching some of this... and looking for the data that I NEED TO SEE WHERE THE REAL MYTH OUT THERE IS WRONG... so when people tell me this is what happening right now I WILL HAVE THE FUCKING TOOLS WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I ASKED YOU FOR. A FUCKING STARTING POINT, GET IT NOW?

Is this too hard? Apparently so.

Damn this is why it is so damn hard to herd cats.

frankly I'm surprised you don't already know about idea.

Have a little self-respect, would you?

My son hasn't been diagnosed with ADD but he's had many teachers who suspected he had it. (In his case it was simply laziness and an unwillingness to apply himself to anything that wasn't fun fun fun, combined with a high enough intelligence that people thought there surely must be a reason for his poor grades. Nope. Just lazy. He's a good, caring, sensitive person and an absolute darling, but he was soooo lazy. Luckily he had an epiphany and went from Ds to straight As in a single semester.) Having a diagnosis while you're under the aegis of the school district is one thing, but once you're out in the real world nobody is going to bend over backwards to help you compensate.

I wonder whether the best system would be to diagnose kids but NEVER tell them--just provide them the life skills you talked about without making a big deal out of it.