How do you feel about feminism?

:)

;)

I'm very positive I'm female. But I can understand your poll, which is more than I can say for some other polls I've seen on DU.

Seriously though, as father with two daughters, and as a husband to very wonderful woman - I support the cause.

Maybe not always the methods, who ever does like all the methods people use?

We are a mass of diversity mentally speaking, so I think the problems that some have with feminism are not the goals or objectives but more so with how some attempt to reach the end result.

And if you want examples...well just let this thread grow some ;)

Serious question. I've never got a handle on what feminism encompasses.
:shrug:

That's the bumper sticker definition, but it's pretty apt nonetheless. It encompasses any area in any woman's life where there is any inequality.

There aren't any hard and fast rules about what is and is not included.

Early feminists were the ones who came up with the phrase, "the personal is the political" because in consciousness-raising groups they began to see that things they thought were their individual fault or failings were instead symptoms which pointed to systemic problems that kept women at disadvantage.

Domestic violence is one excellent example. Abusers and society at large were always keen to blame the women -- for not being good enough in some way so they deserved their abuse. Instead, early feminists came to realize that domestic violence -- and indeed all other violence against women -- was really a system of oppression that kept women in bad marriages, kept them disempowered, weak, vulnerable, economically disempowered, afraid, etc., etc., etc.

They realized this as they compared notes and realized how police responded to domestic violence calls (they almost didn't, but if they did, they didn't DO anything because it was seen as the man's right to knock his wife around a bit or a lot), when they discussed how the laws and judges and courts dealt with those assaults (they didn't, or badly when they did), and how we were all acculturated to blame the women for her own abuse. Etc. As early feminists compared those kinds of assault with assault by strangers against men, they realized that they'd identified a SYSTEM of OPPRESSION that we had been taught was our own little personal problems, but whch was instead part of Patriarchy's oppression of women.

Thanks for the rundown.

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."
-Rebecca West, British writer, speaking in 1913

Many more good quotes here (Molly Ivins, too!):

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~elk/feminismquotes.html

(Yes, that Rutgers! It's just what came up from the search engine...)

edit: caps

I don't know if I ever knew the attribution. Thanks!

generations. But if a woman chooses to do what women have traditionally done, i.e. taking care of the children and other family members, she will not find respect for her choice. As a society, we've gotten to the point where we think women are good enough to do men's work, but we do not value what was traditionally considered women's work. I wish for a world where caregiving is valued; it isn't here yet.

kids?

Early modern feminists...well, we did tend to be that way because we were PUSHED to be moms, wives, etc. without choice. That position came from a place of horrible oppression.

We have moved forward. I suggest you join us. As a feminist, I think whatever the hell a woman wants to do...be a mom...be a professional...be a bum...be a hooker...be a doctor...be the president...be a stay-at-home...be a lesbian....be a trash collector...be a professor...be any combination of these things.....is her business.

Being a feminist means women control their own destinies, their own bodies and their own lives. It means our bodies do not belong to the state. Our bodies do not belong to god. Our bodies do not belong to our SO. Our bodies belong to us. That's what it means. Period.

If you do not support these things, you are my enemy.
Lee

if anything the feminist movement gave women more choices...

As for caregiving...when has it ever been respected?

To be honest, I think the one way to give caregivers the respect they deserve is to make sure that they are compensated for their work.
When a woman or a man chooses to stay home with a child or even a parent for both emotional as well as financial reasons...they should be compensated in some way.

For example, a fellow at work who was talking about how his wife stays at home and it saves them money in comparison to what she had made when she was working. I asked him if he was putting money in either an IRA or even a CD for her benefit. He thought I was nuts...but yet here he was putting money away in his 401K at work ...for himself...and supposedly for him to share with her when he retired...but what about her...

I have a cousin who is caring for her elderly mother. She is taking really good care of her mom. Her mom in turn signed over the house to her. You should hear the outrage among the siblings...cuz they wanted their share of that house when the mother died. Have they no respect for the fact that their sister is working a hodge podge of part time jobs in order to be there to care for her mother...That she bartends in the evenings when her mother is in bed...and she works just a few hours here and there at other places so that she has the ability to go home and check on her mother periodically? Hell no...no respect for that...they just want their share.

The women's liberation movement made the following demands:
Equal Pay for equal work
Universal Child Care
legal abortion

Today:
Women make 77 cents for every dollar a man makes
We have a child care crisis in our country
abortion is under attack.

We have a ways to go still.

In the 60s and 70s the feminists insisted that homemaking was a job. And, should be treated with respect. We are still having this argument today.

yet people bully people because they view their job as being worth less...

My sister had a friend who would call the PA turnpike commission to report on toll takers who didn't say good morning or hello...she felt that it was poor customer service....

I have also seen people bully and disrepect wait staff, cashiers...etc

Any job that is low paid or unpaid...is generally disrespected.

my mother always says..."as long as a job is honest...it is a good job and should be respected"...

of their character.

"Any job that is low paid or unpaid...is generally disrespected."

Sad but so true! Such as day care workers and nursing home workers.

And most humans are assholes.

The difference is crucial and explains much of the 77 cents vs $1 issue.

demands from the feminist movement in the 60s and 70s.

Equal Pay for Equal Work: Same experience, same job, same pay. Not unlike unions, teachers, or Government

Equal Pay for Equivalent Work: Ranks difficulty, education, experience in dissimilar jobs to achieve pay equity between traditional female occupations and male occupations, such as Nursing and Plumbers. This is a key tennant in the FPA, and in my opinion a fatal flaw.

Even if it was unsalaried work on farms & in family businesses. Before modern "conveniences"--housekeeping involved serious labor, not just caregiving.

And women who have jobs outside the home also do more than their share of caregiving when they get home.

Called the "Care Crisis" by Ruth Rosen.

Excellent.

is not part of feminist dogma.

"Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes"

Do those that aren't very supportive define it a different way or do they not believe that we are all equals?

/irony

:evilgrin:

Oh ok,I'll be serious.

What was the question again?

Oh yes...I think it's a great thing,and maybe one day they'll be treated equally enough that we can start to talk about an even better "ism",humanism.

rights reaffirmed my rights are that much more safe. It is not a zero sum game. No one is free until we are all free.

That does NOT, however, prevent some from treating it as "win-lose" ... and those who do come in both flavors of chromasome configuration.

like so many other movements/causes, different femininsts have different ideas.

It is a polarzing term. I think it is because feminism goes to the root of our society. It challenges male domination.
And, that is threatening to people-even liberals.

The media started maligning the term in the 70s and young women didn't want to be associated with being angry.

Look at todays atmosphere, Rush Limbaugh coined the term "feminazi." The biggest oxymoron there is (the word, that is).

The nazis were anti-choice and squelched the feminism that was on the rise in that country.

Feminism threatens people's most elemental definitions of themselves. There's a guy in this thread who is angered by feminism because of the anger he stirs up with "non-PC" comments. What else can he be referring to but sexual comments? He probably wants to be free to just verbally express what he cannot physically express due to social constraints. And he's probably frustrated that "feminism" has added restrictions on his verbal freedom. Someone who believes he should be free to express sexual thoughts among people he doesn't know very well is someone who is probably defining feminism as a threat to his freedom.

ONe:
He thinks feminism constrains him
The truth is that feminism frees people. It freed women to speak out. It freed men to be loving fathers adn have the option to "stay at home."
Two:
The constraints that he feels is merely women "fighting back." Feminism is about raising concisousness so that attacks (physical and verbal) are no longer the epidemic that htey are. So when he verbally harrasses the women fight. and he feels constrained.

Violence against women is condnoed in our society as a "natural thing." Or, a personal problem. BUt it is a social problem. Hate speech cmoes before the punches.

but the rest of me knows better.

Are there man-hating "feminists" out there? Yes, I believe so, but that's not what feminism means. Nor does it necessarily mean rejecting a sexy image. There's Gloria Steinem, who thinks it's important for women to maintain their personal appearance, and there's Andrea Dworkin, who says all sex is rape. Feminism includes a wide spectrum of attitudes, but the central theme is supportive of women having independence, respect, and other pro-woman concepts.

:)

:patriot:

"Racism" is a negative thing (represents inequality dependent on race), "sexism" is a negative thing (represents inequality based on sex), "feminism" is a positive thing (promoting equality for females). An "ism" that is positive. Passing brain thought.

For me, it's about the ability of a woman to make the same choices as anyone else. I think for a long time, equality to men meant women should be simply female men, if that makes sense.

I find it interesting that the constitution of Afghanistan guarantees equal rights for women, while that of the United States does not. Equal rights is implicit, but not guaranteed.

Feminism is the political, social and economic equality between women and men.

Radfical feminism goes beyond this and looks at how the structure of our society does not give women equality; the church, the governement.

If you look at the dictionary definition of feminism it is clear that we haven't achieved equality.

Feminism meaning feminine, not feminist. Thanks. No way have we achieved equality.

Part of my post above:

As a feminist, I think whatever the hell a woman wants to do...be a mom...be a professional...be a bum...be a hooker...be a doctor...be the president...be a stay-at-home...be a lesbian....be a trash collector...be a professor...be any combination of these things.....is her business.

Being a feminist means women control their own destinies, their own bodies and their own lives. It means our bodies do not belong to the state. Our bodies do not belong to god. Our bodies do not belong to our SO. Our bodies belong to us. That's what it means. Period.

If you do not support these things, you are my enemy.
Lee

:evilgrin:

Lesbian hooker trash collector president...<g>

That would be interesting. ...and better than George.
Lee

Meaning I'd actually have to write one,whereas the lesbian hooker trash collectors pretty much writes itself. :)

who believes all people should have equal opertunities, I can say all my expierances with feminists have been negative. Mostly becuase of my accidental non-pc ness. It pisses me off and I avoid those people.

Any woman who holds a job is a feminist.

Any woman who goes into a bar without a male companion is a feminist.

Any woman who, well, does just about anything outside the "traditional" role is a feminist.

Any woman who does the traditional role out of CHOICE is also a feminist. It's all about and only about...choice.
Lee

That could explain some women's reaction to "nonPC-ness".

Feminism is such a polarizing term in our country. And, Hillary, who came out and said, "I am a feminist" showed strength.

One of the reasons I love her - she's a feminist.

I don't know how that term got so damned demonized. It's just odd.
Lee

Every successful movement has a backlash. And we are in our backlash.

Nice to be in a posting with you again, madspirit ;-)

It's good to see you too. Don't be such a stranger.
Lee

and I finally found you in this one!

I thought there might be some juicy bits, so I read it. What I read horrified me - it had never occurred to me that women might be trapped in such horrible situations. My household had always been egalitarian, it was like breathing the air. The realization that women in general were not considered equal participants in life radicalized me on the spot.

Over 40 years later that sense of outrage hasn't diminished. In fact it has grown as I've seen more of the corrosive effects of the residue of patriarchy that lurks like a noxious primer beneath the bright cheerful paint job of of our civilization.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Who knows whether someone is sexist or racist in their heart? Who cares?

You will find that your words & your actions matter more than your "feelings."

<g>....Some women find certain terms condescending and overly familiar. I'm 53 and I am most certainly a feminist and I'm a lesbian. However, I even know older women...who wouldn't call themselves feminists who would be offended if you called them "Babe". My grandmother would have smacked you backward.

A man I know well and love, a man who is my friend, can call me "babe" or "honey" or ...etc. It's who is doing the calling and the context, as with most things.

I think you do have a bit of a problem. Look inward.
Lee

I didn't know there was any other way. My mother had the great fortune to go to college back in the late 50's and early 60's-she got a degree(that she used until she retired), got married , partimed it until the divorce, and then raise us.

I didn't know that that was not like everyone else. Sure others had a Dad but I can't say that I understood what that meant.

Anyway the long run is that women are working towards being treated as more equal even if we won't put it in writing.

Who here has a problem with human rights?

lol

then I'll vote.

I am for it, but I think it can be and is, more than that. In my discipline (archaeology) it is actually a different way to interpret data...not simply counter-hegemonic, but a way to look at things in a new way.

I agree and feel positive about feminism, and feel negativly about people who call themselves feminists. So I guess I voted wrong.

buying into the backlash against feminism.

Feminism is a good thing. It challenges the roots of our soceity.

welcome, fellow feminist!

How could anyone not support equal rights in all areas for women? I know I sure do. I guess I draw the line with the feminists who degrade women who want to stay home and care for their kids, women who are strippers, or models, etc. etc.

The only restrictions that people should have on how they live their lives should come from their own biases and their own moral compass. Society, groups, and organizations should fight for the right and then leave people to their own accord,

We have fair share. lol

I define feminism as an the ideology and promotion of equal opportunities for women as compared to men. I have very positive regard for this definition of feminism.

I have read some stuff that weirds me out but I'm fundamentally happy with feminism.

and making decisions regarding my own body. Three generations ago, this was most certainly not the case.


What I dislike is how the right has co-opted the word to such a degree as to equate it with "man hating". That's crap.

We have all benefited from feminism!

your own body" as I'm a guy - but that's just a quibble)

:)

1. Hate them
2. Really hate them.
3. Really, really hate.
4. Despise them.
5. Wish awful things against the author of the poll.
6. Never click on threads with polls

As a male, I can't imagine how lonely it would be to have no possibilty of a relationship with another person on equal footing in society and in the relationship. Beyond the me-centric view, I think it's fabulous that people have expanded their views of what choices can be made by individuals on how they want to live. That thinking needs to keep advancing.

I'm a stay-at-home mom and I like it that way. Most feminists I meet seem to think that my life can not possibly be anything but miserable without a job outside of the home. I get really tired of being advised to go out and get a job so that I can "get away from the kids." I would never dream of advising any of the working moms I know to quit their jobs. It's rude.

What makes you think these feminists think you're life must be miserable? What makes you think they're feminists?

I want the car salesman to treat me with respect instead of talking down to me, but I want him to hold the door for me like a gentleman when we go out check out the cars.

I want auto fixit shop who won't treat me like I'm sneaking into the boys locker room, but will also provide a nice clean bathroom instead of one unisex one full of grime and urinal cake smell.

I mean, what's the point of having cake if I can't eat it?? :)

people should try it!

:applause: