When are people going to understand this ONE BASIC RULE ABOUT RACE?:

The only race or ethnic group a citizen is qualified to criticize in broad, sweeping terms is their own.

Am I right, DU?

Edited to add, or do you mean that the only race anyone can criticize is their own race?

...it usually comes in the form of a judgement, right or wrong, that only a member of that particular group is qualfied to make.

I'm tired of others saying "Well, Black culture should be more like this," "Jews should vote more like that," "Latinos are doing everything wrong..." etc. How on earth would you know if your name is Bill O'Reilly?

It has nothing to do with free speech--it's about being qualified to make such statements. Cross that line, and you lay yourself open to allegations that you don't know what you're talking about, and that your assumptions stem from racist assumptions.

Personally I don't think anyone is right is saying how a whole grouping of people, based on religion, color, sex, "should" act.

. . . a black person is precluded, under your one basic rule, from criticizing whites as a group?

Okay.

as a white non-KKK member, I can see the difference.

case in point Bill Cosby, this man has done more to legitimize bigots opinions then all the KKK and or gangsta' rappers

...if he feels it's right to say what he said, more power to him.

criticizing names as being too weird or long or whatever, that has been a staple of white racists since I can remember and I will even admit there was once I questioned it(a name) a Black mom who named her son Simian which sounds cool unless you know that Simians are the family great apes that include gorillas and chimps.

Simeon? Cuz I had a (Black) teacher in College with that very same name. Never seemed to bother him.

spelled Simeon, saw the name in print, I was working in a medical clinic at the time I asked the mom to spell it for me, I think she did not know and possibly thought it was the name you wrote. I have seen other misspellings that lead to weird names not always Black people. Darkcanyon instead of the the name D'artagnan, I asked her (she was White BTW) to make sure she said yes like the Musketeer.

It's stupid to hate someone for their race. Talk to them for five minutes & you'll find plenty of valid reasons to hate them.

It's stupid to hate someone for their race. Talk to them, you might find out they are a Republican. Otherwise, its ok to hate them for their race.

Criticizing any race or ethnic group in broad, sweeping terms is ignorant, demeaning, and essentially wrong.

Am I right, DU?

NGU.

If you don't respect yourself nobody else is going to respect you....

It is wrong in any shape, form and fashion... I don't care what you look like....

and yet these days more and more are standing up for the justice that needs to be melted out against their own party, but I still say that in some respects I would be careful just how far they are to be trusted since they have proven time and time again they tow the line regardless of ethics, personal morality when it comes to wanting to win.

Sure, the majority of them are caucasian, and I may call them a bunch flabby, clammy white guys. But that's criticizing a group with a stated point of view - not the totality of caucasianism (is that a word?), which includes the entire spectrum of human traits, just like any other race.

NGU.

I'm Jewish. I can't tell you how many times I've heard rabbis say:

"As a people, we simply don't do enough of this..."

Is my rabbi an anti-Semite?

Now if he had said, "Black people simply don't don't enough of this..."

Or Al Sharpton says "Jews simply don't do enough of this...."

Then we got a problem.

Thus, its a defined group that adheres to certain tangible tenets.

NGU.

Judaism is a religion. There is also a jewish race. There is also a jewish tradition, defining who is and isn't a jew.

"A Jew" can mean

:- a follower of the religion judaism
:- a member of the jewish race.
:- someone jewish under halachic law, i.e. is descended in the matrilineal line from a jewess or has undergone a special ceremony performed by a rabbi.

It's entirely possible to be any combination of the above - I'm not the first, partially the second and wholly the third; a convert to judaism might be just the first; there are lots of people with jewish fathers who are just the first two, the descendants of a jewish great-grandmother may be just the third and very slightly the second.

It's a real linguistic mess; the only solution is to make it clear which usage you're talking about when it becomes relevant.

If people from a particular ethnic group are engaging in behavior that violates the human rights of anyone...I'm damn sure gonna speak up about it...whether I belong to either of the effected groups or not.

If the OP's premise is true, then black people never have the right to criticize a white person and that is pure bullshit.

And then there is that religious issue...adherents must be of the same order. We can't have Jesuits picking on Opus Dei, either.

And then there is the military service thingy. If you ain't a combat Jarhead don't say shit about the Marines. And keep yer mouth shut about my proud brothers in the ASA!!!

But you know it'd be a hell of a lot better if everyone went around just acting civil and treating people with respect.

sorta like "No one beats up on my litte brother except for me".

It explains why many people think there is some sort of double standard (Well, black people can say "ho", why can't I?).

No, black people can't say "ho" either. It's hugely degrading to women across the board. This Imus thing isn't just a black issue. It's sexist just as much as racist and the people who are crying about over reacting don't have the right to tell me or anyone which offenses are tolerable and which are not. We're half the population, what the hell do we have to do to get respect?

I know we all use generalizations,usually on a daily basis,but I would really hesitate to presume to speak for all of any group,except that group of middle-aged men still into Godzilla movies. :)

You can not ever end racism if even the same race jokes about their own race .

This to me is just a way to teach the color of ones skin does make a difference . So even joking within the same race does lay the basic ground work making the next step to apply this thought process to other races .

Many years ago we did have this sort of thing allowed in the TV or radio media .

Now it seems accepted practice . It's not a joke that becomes an acceptable joke over time . Like comedy , some have said comedy is tragedy plus time . However race does not change with time .

Haven't you watched any stand-up lately?

I should know, I am one.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

One guy gets it.

is that I'm an asshole by definition?

Nice thought. I should learn to embrace that.

Do not essentialize "it", recognize it as a social category with a history. Let's talk history...we all share that history from different sides of the looking glass.

Black people are all ______
White people are all ______
Asian people are all______
Muslins are all______
Jews are all______
Christians are all______
Men are all______
Women are all______
Gay are all______
Lesbians are all ____

them.

Why do we make such a big deal out of mere words when so many deeds are going unpunished?

Personally I don't care what Imus, Dubya Bush, Dick Cheney, David Duke, Louis Farrakhan, Pat Robertson, ad nauseam say but I get mad as hell about the deeds they do or cause to be done.

:mad: :nuke:

It is the deeds they have done, not their being white males, that make them the most heinous beings on the planet!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

crap?

We need to get over judging people by the group. That's what the intial complaint about racism was, wasn't it? Judge by the content of my character, not the color of my skin, said MLK.

Even if it's your own group, you're judging them by the color of their skin.

The only thing I have in common with every single other white person is white skin. After that, there are as many variations as there are people.

There is no "tribe" any more. Especially in the U.S. If you want to live in a tribe, solely known as part of a group and by a group identity, the U.S. is the wrong place to be.

I'll start by saying I am a Caucasian female.

I think it is more a matter of cultural bias and status. African Americans have traditionally been on the short end of the stick in just about every aspect, including education, criminal justice, jobs, housing, income, etc.

It is one thing for a black person to make a joke about a "honky", or whatnot, because white people have the upper hand when it comes to power and advantages, for the most part. (And actually, the jokes are funny, and are really not so derogatory or belittling.) Not the same for someone to make fun of or make derogatory statements about a minority, or any class of people who have experienced SEVERE and OPPRESSIVE prejudice over many years.

It's just not the same when you are shoveling shit from a more powerful and privileged perspective. It's just not.

I have really stuggled with this story the last couple days. Imus does do a lot of positive work for charity and disabilities, and he has effected much good in his work. But at the same time, I think I have settled on the notion that someone who does such important work has MORE of a responsibility to take heed of politically correct sensitivity, particularly when he has so much exposure to the airwaves.

Now, I would certainly welcome the idea that hate rhetoric by the likes of Coulter, Limbaugh, be attacked with equal vigor. I just don't think it is okay to lower the standards because "some people are worse". And they are.

I'm sorry if it doesn't seem fair or offends some people. I really don't care to get flamed either.

And really, what he said just wasn't funny. And it was very hurtful to a major portion of the country, who didn't deserve it.

by talking trashy about young black female athletes. Does not work at all.

Young white high school boys (possibly college age) might be forgiven for making this mistake. In high school, black is cool, they are figuring out how to be cool, and everyone is unsure of themselves. They are learing how to behave. They are not yet adults.

Old white males can be "cool" by showing respect towards all women of all races, all the time. That's the only way.

:rofl:

He learned his cool in Sunday school.

No one is qualified to criticize anyone with broad, sweeping terms. Because within any race, ethic group, sexuality, gender, etc. there are many different parts that create the whole group.

People are individuals, human beings not merely just their race, sexuality or gender and as such are entitled to not being denigrated and dismissed based on their parts (the color of their skin, their sexual organs, etc.)

I was talking to a guy that was black who was telling me the reasons he doesn't like black women. They weren't even behavioral, but physical. It left me feeling unsettled. On one hand, what someone's attracted to is what they're attracted to. On the other, stuff he was saying was like something you'd read on Stormfront.

The fact is, broad sweeping generalizations are wrong, based on race at least.

...and the same is true in other contexts as well. For example, Catholics routinely bash priests and the Church -- but tend to get defensive when non-Catholics do the same. Too, it has long been an unwritten rule that family members may criticize each other, but will band together if an outsider weighs in.

To a large extent it is just human nature.

However, there are limits. It's just that the limits are different for members of the group than they are for outsiders. JMHO.

3,296 U.S. troops now dead in W's war. We die as one race, the human race, got it?

I wanted to change the subject too, but these days no one can STOP talking about race around here.

Nobody is qualified to insult any race because we are all part of ONE RACE THE HUMAN RACE!

guess I just don't get hating someone because they look differently.

Last time I checked, I was sort of a pinky-beige, not "white". Ethnicity: mish-mash northern European, leaning towards the German side.

Peace to all.