The Separation of Church and State - Democratic Underground

Xipe Totec

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:32 PM
Original message

The Separation of Church and State

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy inside the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston Friday, Aug. 28, 2009.
Note the flag draped casket.

Inside the church, only the white shroud.

The flag does not enter the church but remains at the entrance, as if standing guard over the people's right to worship freely.

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Davis_X_Machina

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message

1. While the rubric for the Mass of the Resurrection...

...calls for the white shroud, deviations are permitted 'for pastoral reasons'. It's basically the family's call. Plenty of veterans' funeral Masses do have a flag-covered casket.

One of the Fat Ladies of cooking-show fame had her motorcycle helmet on her casket in London's (R.C.) Westminster Cathedral -- some tsk-tsking over that, I'll have you know.

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Xipe Totec

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. Having attended my own brother's military funeral

I recall that this was not an option.

The Catholic church is very strict on this rule. Perhaps other churches are not.

In either case, the flag does not enter uninvited.

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Davis_X_Machina

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2

3. Depends on whether your local bishop is a...

...'book soldier' or not. The views of the 'local ordinary' tend to determine what's customary.

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Xipe Totec

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3

4. Respectfully disagree.

Catholic funerals throughout the world follow a universal order…Only Christian symbols may rest on or be placed near the coffin during the funeral liturgy. Any other symbols, for example, national flags or flags or insignias of associations, have no place in the funeral liturgy.

http://themoderatevoice.com/43197/religion-vs-flag/

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Davis_X_Machina

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Sat Aug-29-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #4

9. Seen it with my own eyes, for a relative, within the calendar year. n/t

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Xipe Totec

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Sat Aug-29-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #9

10. I can't really argue with that statement

If you say you saw a Catholic priest give the funeral lithurgy over a flag draped casket, with your own eyes, then I take your word for it.

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LiberalAndProud

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Sat Aug-29-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #2

7. I didn't know this, and hadn't considered it before.

I grew up in a church with the US flag to on one side and the state flag on the other side of the pulpit. I never even thought of this in light of seperation. Food for thought.

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david13

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message

5. Yeah, but it's because the catholic church thinks they are the

highest authority in this world, bar none.
dc

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Xipe Totec

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Sat Aug-29-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #5

6. Inside the church, they are. Outside it is a different matter altogether.

Edited on Sat Aug-29-09 01:59 PM by Xipe Totec

Do you support the 1st amendment, or not?

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sarge43

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Sat Aug-29-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message

8. Both John and Robert's caskets were flag draped during the mass

The First Amendment prevents the government from enforcing a particular belief system or, just as important, none at all.

Within very broad limits how a religion conducts its rituals is none of the government's business.

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