Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I tried Snopes & Fact Check & found nothing. Can ypu help?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:08 PM
Original message
I tried Snopes & Fact Check & found nothing. Can ypu help?
We better start doing something and soon.

Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis .
See what you think of his letter.

Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it around to our other representatives.

Stephen Fraser
July 23, 2009
Senator Bayh,
As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.
I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.
Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!
Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!
Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your banks accounts for elective funds transfer.
Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!
Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No ! "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.
Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)
Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!
Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.
Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.
Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax". Yes, it says that!
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.
Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same!
Page 25! 3 Line 1 0-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.
Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.
Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.
Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!
Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!
Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based me asures. HC the way they want. Rationing.
Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.
Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!
Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?
Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.
Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)
Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.
Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!
Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life!
Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN?
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.
Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.
Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.
Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.
Respectfully,
Stephen E Fraser MD

And that is less than one half of the bill.

I tried the Dr. name, title of email, health care bill, and I can't find any articles refuting this GS. I personally watched all the hearings that were on cspan and all of these claims are crap!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. this has been around for weeks.
there was a discussion here about it. The best clue is to scan these things and if you see ACORN anywhere, it is just BS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justgamma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Try these.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Pls. read this-your e-mail seems to be what they're referring to...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6412830

Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200 Being Circulated In A Chain E-mail
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Go to Please Cut The Crap
There's a bunch of similar astroturf emails going around by people claiming to be "doctors" and "lawyers". This site does a good job of refuting this...crap.

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2009/07/deconstructing-the-right-wing-lies-health-bill.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is health insurance company Astroturf
it's been around for ages and somebody stuck a doctor at the top of it.

http://factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. I typed in Dr. Stephen Fraser and found the following:
Edited on Sat Aug-29-09 06:26 PM by Kerrytravelers
http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2009/08/response-to-letter-from-dr-stephen.html


Response to the open letter from Dr. Stephen Fraser to Sen. Evan Bayh
Another of my friends, Gary Aguilar, has given me permission to share another rebuttal response to more propaganda. A letter has been circulated, ostensibly from "Dr. Stephen Fraser." Gary offers this point-by-point rebuttal, with links. Enjoy, and circulate broadly!

Dear Merk et al,

I read with interest the first pdf attachment you sent, "HealthCareLtr09.pdf." Then I googled up the on-line bill it was criticizing to check the validity of the assertions of the self-described "patriotic American," "Dr. Stephen Fraser," in his letter to Sen. Bayh. So are "Dr. Fraser's" criticisms valid?

No, they're not..

Let's take them, one by one.

#1. "Dr. Fraser" says, "Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!" (sic).

Go to the bill itself, at: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf. There, you'll find it says no such thing. What it does say on the pages circa 22 is that the govt. will inspect entities that "self insure" to determine whether they're financially solvent. It makes sense for the feds to check, too. For if an employer opts out of any and all plans, saying it will cover all its employee health care costs itself, but lacks the wherewithal to do so, workers may be harmed. So it's not unreasonable for the govt., and workers, to know beforehand.

#2 "Dr. Fraser" says: "Page 30, Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get." (sic).

What page 30 actually says is that a Health Benefits Advisory Committee will be established to "recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced and premium plans." This is standard practice.. Such committees determine coverage in all private plans now. The idea being that just because you'd like Blue Cross or Medicare to pay for your cosmetic surgery isn't sufficient reason for it/them to do so.

How about the business of that "GOVT COMMITTEE?" The bill says there will be no more than 27 members, all appointed, except for the Surgeon General. Of the 27, 18 will be picked from the outside - that is, they can't be either federal employees or officers. The other 8 will be federal employees/officers who are appointed by the President. Among the non-feds, MUST BE physician providers and representatives of labor and consumer groups, etc. These representatives are far more inclusive of the medically needy public than the panels used by private insurance companies are today.

# 3. "Dr. Fraser" says, "Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOU HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!

Check page 29 and it says no such thing.

But if rationing is such a bad thing, why do we allow it here in America already? I donate time at San Francisco General where care for the poor is already quite rationed in that the wait lists for services are far, far longer than they are for the poor in virtually all other First World countries. The wait lists in Canada, which is often criticized, is often no longer than wait lists here for private patients. Perhaps not for MRI scans, for which patients may wait in Canada a little longer, but surgical wait times are not much different. (The next available slot on my private surgery schedule is in about a month.)

And America is the ONLY first world country in which its own doctors go on medical missions to serve the poor - WITHIN THE BORDER OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY! "60 Minutes" did a great expose of this - poor American folk - many of them white and apparently most U.S. citizens - assembling before dawn in remote locations to get health care they can't afford.

#4. "Dr. Fraser" says: "Page 42 of HS Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!"

Nothing of the sort appears anywhere on page 42. Nor, from what I've heard from my AMA rep, is such a policy written anywhere in the bill. All insurers determine what benefits they'll cover under the plan, and many private insurers immorally change the rules after the fact these days, bankrupting policy holders who undergo treatment that they arbitrarily decide they won't cover.

The #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in America is unaffordable health care costs, usually after unexpected, costly illnesses. This situation exists NOWHERE else in the world. Nowhere.

#5. "Dr. Fraser" says: "Page 50 Section 152 in the HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise."

You won't find that anywhere on page 50.

There are 4 more attachments which I won't review because I have no more reason to suppose they'll be any more credible than I have to believe Sarah Palin's imbecilities - boosted by the John Birch Society (in the "New American") - about Obama's plans for "death panels."

I have no idea who this "Dr. Fraser" is. But I'd bet that, if he really exists at all and isn't instead just a phony shill for some wealthy conservative, Republican PR machine, he's probably been fed these lies and is just passing them along to others to accomplish what the right wing ALWAYS tries to do: Scare the Shit out of people. Well, shame on "Dr. Fraser!" The obvious goal here it to keep the money pouring into the coffers of the often corrupt, unethical and immoral insurance companies and hospital corporations.

The McClatchy news outlet - which was the ONLY mainstream U.S. news outlet (known then as Knight Ridder) to really warn its readers BEFORE the Iraq War that Bush & Co. were greatly exaggerating the threat Saddam posed - just put out a fascinating piece detailing who's behind the "Dr. Frasers" of the world. It's entitled, "Who's behind the attacks on a health care overhaul?" http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/73765.html?story_link=email_msg

As usual, it's conservative, Republican, right-wing liars and manipulators, among them the notorious Rick Scott, Scott, for anyone who cares to check, "left his job as CEO of the Columbia/HCA hospitals during a federal Medicare fraud probe in 1997 that led to a historic $1.7 billion settlement." So the captain of the "Fraud Ship Columbia/HCA" that bilked America of even more than the $1.7 billion they settled for - Rick Scott - is Mary Mark et al's ally in this "freedom fight."

And people wonder why conservative Republicans can't get no respect!

I welcome rejoinders. Perhaps someone will read through all the other attachments and find that, somewhere, he's finally found something worth bitching about. If so, I'd love to hear it!

Gary



There are several links on the original blog I copied this from.





And you can tell the wingnuts don't bother to read. This one put it on his blog http://www.u4prez.com/Blogs/friday/Stephen-Fraser-Letter-to-Evan-Bayh.html with this preface:

You know I don't usually repost other people's work, but apparently this was a letter written by an actual doctor who went through and actually read the house bill.

I have found a few sites that verify this letter being real, but most are blog sites. But considering most of this is exactly what we expected from this bill anyway, I'm not too surprised.





Basically, the only sites that are spreading this nonsense are wingnuts. And they never include links back to the actual bills... because guess what??? Nothing they claim is in there... is in there! :crazy:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Are you kidding me?
- There is no Doctor -- It was looked into here on DU a few weeks ago. HERE is where that nasty email got started: http://blog.flecksoflife.com/2009/07/19/the-hc-monstrosity/

Liberty University was a BIG part of spreading this around: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/11/765163/-Far-right-religious-group-behind-outrageous-health-care-lies



And it is the REASON why so many lies are being floated around.

Here, Try this: http://healthcarereformmyths.org/

For that SPECIFIC email Go here: http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2009/08/deconstructing-the-right-wing-lies-on-the-health-insurance-billpartii.html




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's another that debunks this line by line:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. 26 Lies about this email and its Author From Fact Check.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Have you tried checking .....
the Medical Board in the state where he claims to be licensed to see if he really is a doctor? Anyone can sit down and write a letter claiming to be a doctor. Doesn't mean that they are. That is a good place to start.

Maybe that is why you haven't been able to find him in your other searches. I think it is a bunch of crap. My own doctor is in favor of universal health care AND a public option. He told me that usually if doctors feel threatened by legislation or they think it will seriously impact patient care, the local medical society sends out a legislative alert. He told me he had not received anything on health care reform, nor had the nurses who receive similar legislative alerts. I believe most doctors are just as tired of having endless interference from the health insurance companies as are their patients. We are beginning to lag behind in developing and using new medical technology because the health insurance companies will not approve the use of many of the newer and more effective procedures. These are the same old tired lies the Freepers have been trotting out since day one. They invent these various persona or simply take insurance company money to pay their flacks to disseminate this stuff. You would think that out of common decency, they would have knocked it off a bit after Senator Kennedy's death. He was a great advocate for Health Care reform, but then I keep forgetting that these thugs and those who act for them have no decency. None at all. They would throw their own mothers in front of a bus to keep from losing one rotten cent of the profits they have earned by denying all of us proper care and a fair shot at good benefits.

I'm sure that they would be very happy if we all went back to using leeches. But then they would only pay a fraction of what it cost us to do that. Dickheads.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU. I replyed to all to that email.
There had to be 50 names it had been sen to so I feel pretty good now, The lady who sent it to me is a HS teacher & a very good one, but unfortunately, she's also a hard core Pub! I try to always send her valid sources to refute the BS she sends so just maybe I'll convert her a little bit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yost69 Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why not just look up the bill yourself. It is far better than listening to anyones opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC