Michael Jackson...homicide?

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25997735-2902,00.html

Am I always the last to know??!

Sparing us wall-to-wall coverage of this.

I don't think the media needs to draw us a map to explain what happened to Jackson, but I know there's an entire library of atlases on standby for the coming months.

I'm just grateful that, for this week at least, the media had their priorities in order and focused on Senator Kennedy and his impact on our country.

here on DU that those grieving the loss of Kennedy did.

The ONLY viable excuse for that is that Kennedy was a political figure and Jackson was not (and this IS a political site).

Other than that, the hatred and vitriol re: Jackson is disgusting coming from what are SUPPOSED to be better people than freepers.

I think the first mistake is "better people than freepers". Hopefully without starting a nuclear war, I just want to say many of the things I see here are no different, morally or intellectually, than what appears on free republic. It's a matter of red vs. blue. The quality is no different, merely the sides people declare. I see the same personality traits here as over there.

That said, I think it's exceedingly cruel to smack people around during a time of grief. I've never grave-danced, never will. What I think about anything at all isn't so important that it needs expressing when people are clearly very deeply hurt and need support rather than disdain.

I like to think that impulse is what makes us human.

has always seemed a little unbalanced to me. Whether it be for a celebrity or politician. Sympathize with their loved ones, absolutely. Recognize the person's accomplishments and place in history. But I don't get the vicarious mourning at a distance. Although it's been less over the top for Kennedy than it was for Jackson.

Study after study shows that people empathize with celebrities and television figures as a way of socialization. Neurons fire in the same ways and patterns as if the people actually, physically exist in our lives. Further, this kind of digital socialization is a sort of guard against loneliness and other mental health disorders.

So, even if it seems odd, it's actually good for people to have those kinds of connections.

I never understood it either until I started reading about how peoples' brains react to what they see on television and read in magazines. Now I know those attachments are just as real and serve the same purpose as any other kinds of friendships, so I try to take care not to trample all over them whenever some celebrity or other figure is in the news.

Even if it's not the connection you or I would make, other people are still feeling very profound, very valid emotions, and I'd no sooner tell them to get over it than I would a friend at a "real life" funeral. The effects of that negativity are, neurologically, just as damaging and hurtful as if we'd said it to them while grieving a real life friend.

... for the fact-based, sensible, scientific explanation.

I doubt everyone here on DU personally knew Edward Kennedy either, but somehow that's "different". (?)

:eyes:

perhaps it is because Kennedy was an elected legislator who worked personally to improve the lot for U.S. citizens - and successfully.

Jackson was an entertainer. No hatred intended - but he was a singer-dancer.

And you really believe they deserve the same coverage?

I worked in Bobby's campaign, and I worked in Teddy's. And I'm also an MJ fan. Let's recognize something here.. MJ WAS a political force if you ever bothered to get to know his lyrics. He was a force for peace. He reached many millions of people across all political boundaries and in that respect was a threat to governments everywhere. His whole mission was to unite people in love through music. He wasn't controlled by corporate interests - and in the end, it may be those corporate interests that played a very large part in bringing him down. If you believe the tabloid smut about him, then you are uninformed and really should do a little research. I loved the Kennedys, but MJ was global, not national and in his way he did more to break barriers around the world than any politician ever could have. Now, back to mourning BOTH of them. A little understanding for those of us who are freshly grieving would be appreciated. The media continues to keep the MJ wounds open, just as they seem intent on mentioning Chappaquiddick at every opportunity.

so his lyrics touched you . . .

that does not make him anything other than a singer/dancer.

Perhaps he had an impact on his fans. I am not disputing that. However, Kennedy had an impact on everyone as a legislator - you can not avoid his impact.

so I didn't have to.. Almost in my own words.

Seems that people have a hard time understanding that artists can have a tremendous amount of political muscle.
Thanks for your work on the campaigns and welcome to DU.

Whether a conviction occurs at the end of the judicial process is another story.

Word is that they're going to go after the doctor for manslaughter.

They rattled off a few and then said the rest of the autopsy finding are being withheld for some legal reason.

I'm used to that term being reserved for potentially deadly illegal substances.... heroin, hash, etc.

Of course, those who smoke, and drink, and <whatever>, don't see the problem.

they found large amounts of weed in Michael's house and the pundits went wild as though it was worser then the other drugs..Mention marijuana and they lose their damn minds. Mention alcohol not so much.

they may not be called hard drugs but they're habit forming and dangerous and shouldn't all be used at once.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/77902/

In a search warrant affidavit unsealed in Houston, TX, it was reported that the L.A. County coroner's officials indicated that they found a lethal dose of the Propofol in Michael Jackson's system, as well as three other drugs: valium, lorazepam and midazolam. Now, Dr. George Graf, a board certified internist and anesthesiologist, talks to ET about the use of drugs in the treatment of patients.

"There are many people around the world who use benzodiazepines because of anxiety or insomnia," Dr. Graf tells ET. "I often will use these medications on a very short term basis for patients who are in pain or who have severe anxiety disorders. However, these drugs are much more dangerous and habit forming over a long period of time. In fact, I do not use these medications as treatment for insomnia over an extended period of time because of the habit-forming qualities and the tolerance that patients build up."

Dr. Graf, of D.I.S.C. in Marina del Rey, California, adds that normally, however, patients only have one prescription for a benzodiazepine, not three. He goes on to say that any of these drugs can cause respiratory and cardiac depression, and the fact that the King of Pop was given all of these medications and was still awake, speaks to his resistance to these drugs.

"I would infer that he had been given these drugs on other occasions and the desired effect, which was sleep, was unattainable," he says. "To my mind, until proven otherwise, Michael Jackson's difficulty in sleeping probably came as a result of his multi-drug abuse, rather than needing multiple drugs to get him to sleep. I would argue that he should have been taken off all drugs and allowed to reestablish a normal sleep cycle, rather than continuing to feed his addiction."

The Diprivan killed him.

"Contraindications: Propofol is contraindicated by all respiratory depressants, including benzodiazepines such as such as lorazepam and midazolam."

As we all know, the drug cocktail the doctor used to attempt to lay Michael Jackson out contained both those drugs, plus diazepam. I think the real cause of death is synergy: the guy had enough shit in him to kill a racehorse, and it interacted to get even more powerful.

(Per the released search warrant info from the cops (time line from Murray)

Starting at 1:30 am..the doc alternated giving the drugs to a point where he was giving Jackson one or the other every 1 to 3 hours via his IV. (note: The half life of these drugs is longer than 1 to 3 hours so both were accumulating and NOT being fully excreted from Jackson's body before the next dose was given.) The doc was WRONG for giving both of these non stop in such a short period of time.
Then came the Diprivan dose, per the doctor's statement, given at 10:40 am. Again, it was given on top of the other two drugs that had not been fully excreted yet.
These "decisions" ALONE will get charges brought up against the doc and he will, most likely, lose his MD licenses he holds in three states.
The search warrant that was unsealed last week had the doc saying that he found MJ not breathing at 11 am. What he didn't realize: the cops had his cell phone records and there were three separate phone calls AFTER 11 am and BEFORE he called for help from the staff at about noon.
WHO did he call when he found MJ not breathing cuz he didn't call the staff or 911 for over an hour...

to get what he wanted.

Could be murder, or an accident, or justifiable, or assisted suicide...those are all homicide. I'm sure there're more.

The mention of assisted suicide really made me think about this one. He wanted potentially lethal drugs... to sleep.

Sleep is what he got. Eternally.

This looks like a case of assisted suicide.

When the news first broke of an overdose death, I just thought, "Somebody finally put the poor bastard out of his misery." It was probably the first genuine, unselfish favor anybody had done him in a long time.