Okay, so here is what there seems to be consensus on in the health care policy debate

Read a LA Times article today in the local paper (sorry just got the internets back after a virus scrub)

Three things appear to be agree upon:
1. End of the "pre-existing conditions" excuse
2. End of just dropping people from coverage (and their probably being shut out of coverage)
3. End to Benefits Caps

Folks, I know that there should be a public option. I want it. I have called all my reps to tell them that. etc.

But these three things are HUGE

As a watcher of public policy and politics (two different things) and my new job in a healthcare related field I can attest from what I have learned and seen that this are three GIGANTIC changes that will affect a lot of people.

Just sayin'

not that we should stop pushing for yet another not-for-profit healthcare option like the Va, Medicaid, Medicare, Tricare, etc.

Ben Nelson's face was on the flyer, so I assumed he reached out to me. But it was paid for by Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America and Families USA.

And it's all good, except, in my view it does nothing to make health insurance affordable. Unless and until that issue is addressed, everything else is moot.

success.

Hell it would be better then whatever "reform" McCain/Palin would have supported if they won.

until age 26 instead of being thrown off at 18

That right there will make money for the insurance industry anyway -- young people are healthier, and so they will utilize services less -- and that is one of the largest groups of uninsured adults.

Why not get it now while we have a majority?

I fear we give in so easily.

I knew it would happen this way. The party leaders are masters at talking us down from any heights of aspiration we might reach.

;(

We don't have enough votes for a public option. Why do people keep thinking that just because we have a majority of Democrats in Congress means that we have a majority of Congresspersons that actually want (let alone would vote for) a public option?

It is to our shame as a party that we can not.

They are not going to fight for it when we have a chance to get it.

WHY do people keep thinking it? Because we DO have a majority. We are just afraid of using it.

but if we go through reconciliation, it is very doubtful that we will get the 60 votes requird to prevent insurance companies from discriminating against the sick. (It is essentially undisputed that the Senate rules won't allow such regulation to go through on reconciliation.)

If we don't have that regulation, then insurance companies will continue to drop only sick people onto the public option, and it would not be able to survive without extremely high premiums.

joke.

How do you propose we get 60 votes in the Senate for a "good" public option? You think Lieberman and Nelson will vote for it?

and confusing the issue. It's really simple. Give Medicare to everyone who wants it. After all everyone pays P/R taxes, so they should be able to opt into it with maybe an additional 2 or 3 extra percent taken in taxes. Uninsured can be covered too with this option. Let the insurers go their merry way doing whatever it is they do and if anyone wants to waste their money on their product, let them.

Hmmmm where are they meeting?

You are willing to accept a few crumbs from the right which is NOT in control.

now the PO (in it's current laughable, weak, and useless state ) is off the table. Where do you suppose it will end?

plus all the new private money that will be required to be spent on private insurance companies.

If the 3 things you mentioned could be just passed by themselves I would welcome them.

Also, as you are probably aware, (and to make things even more confusing) what is currently being called "the public option" won't do a thing to keep insurance companies honest or to keep costs down.

That's what the health insurance industry wants--50 million new customers who must buy their products or else become criminals, plus government subsidies to help them buy it. It's a massive federal bail-out of the health insurance cabal, and it is sure to drive voters away from the Democratic Party.

It's a disaster waiting to happen, and yet every bill under consideration in Congress contains the individual mandate. In order for those of us on the left to agree to this ill-conceived bail-out of the very companies who are profiting most from our failed health care system, there must be a robust public option, and by that I mean a government-administered health insurance plan that is projected to enroll at least 50 million Americans within five years. Only a plan of that size can actually drive down costs and "keep the insurance companies honest."

Without it ... no deal. Half a loaf is not good enough for me to consent to a federal bail-out of the health insurance industry.

:dem:

-Laelth

Those 3 things will be massive. As I've posted many times in these discussions on these topics, my son was born with many medical conditions and has had many operations and spent months in hospitals. We had/have great private insurance and it has still cost us a lot. And we also have the knowledge, information, education and wherewithal to have been able to fight things fairly aggressively where many can't or won't or don't know how. But we've seen so many people not as lucky as we are because of the 3 things you listed.

If those 3 things happen legally and there are mechanisms in place for the insurance industries to have to abide by them then I will be happy but still dissapointed.

And as much as I don't want us to give up on the possibility of a public option I don't want us to diminish the importance of those other things. Many, many people who otherwise would not will be able to get healthcare and not go bankrupt because of just those 3 things.

And is not what we should be voting for.

Whoopee -- ending the pre-existing condition clause -- without addressing the potential charges people will get hit with? They can stop *calling* it that - but they can STILL price those folks *with* pre-existing conditions right out of the coverage.

I have a kid with a genetic disorder that has made him an insurance leper, in terms of even finding someone who would offer us a quote. He's on schip now, but he's going to need insurance when he becomes an adult. I know from previous experience that unless some REAL changes happen, he's still going to have problems.

In the meantime, this is just another *feel good, look good, but doesn't make REAL change but people are dumb enough to buy it* measure, and it's useless without the public option to really force the insurance industry to behave.

that is a great point

Our kid is in a wellness program, specifically for his problems. We're doing EVERYTHING that is considered appropriate in his treatment. In fact, his medical bills are a fraction of a few of his *normal* friends bills, because he doesn't do sports that could break bones, and he doesn't go out drinking with buddies and getting into car wrecks, etc.

But because he HAS a disorder that could *possibly* cause huge costs if he did have a medical emergency, he CANNOT get health insurance on his own. His grandfather, who had the same problem, had to start his own business in order to get insurance for himself, and even then he had to jump through all sorts of hoops to keep it.

We CANNOT allow the insurance industry free rein over this *reform*. It would not BE reform if that happens - it will be a bailout, at the cost of the consumer. I know that if it goes through as it stands right now, I will NOT be voting for anyone who goes along with this. This is our last straw.

more people in....

that's amazing.

I have seen it happen in our party over and over again.

I remember when I criticized the bankruptcy bill, I was blasted.

I criticized FISA and was told by DUers that it was a needed bill.

I criticized the Faith based council being loaded with anti-choice and anti-gay folks....I was told it was necessary to keep winning.

They are selling us out, and we are accepting it as necessary. Over and over and over.

When I write about charter schools as a way to privatize, I am told it is needed.

It's almost like bend over and grab those ankles, and we say sure gladly.

I tried to make that clear in the OP

the thing that the angry mobs don't understand is that this is not a one-time deal, this will be continual regardless of how the Repubs come out and claim victory and the MSM carries on that lie for them.

so much.

That's why I put my faith with folks who keep fighting, who ask for what is needed, not what is acceptable to appease the right wing.

That's why I support Physician's for a National Health Care Policy because they don't fold and go for second best at the first chance.

as in the day teh law is signed, all three end.

Surely nobody would oppose those things.

And we are rejoicing.

If there is no public option then to hell with people with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance?

what does it cost the individual who needs insurance????

Here's how it's going to work -

Actual health insurance reform will go through with 60 votes because some pukes will vote for those three things you've listed. The second bill, with the public option will go through via reconciliation and will only need 51 votes.

Can't push one giant bill through with reconciliation - splitting it is the solution to get what we want.

When's the individual mandate going through?

If it goes through in Phase I, with 60 votes, as you describe it, I will raise hell. That's not enough to get my support for a massive federal bail-out of the health insurance industry.

If it goes through in Phase II, with 51 votes, as you describe it, I can accept that but only if the public option that goes through is "robust," and by that I mean a government-administered health insurance plan that is projected to enroll at least 50 million Americans within five years. Only a plan of that size can actually drive down costs and "keep the insurance companies honest."

Without it ... no deal. Half a loaf is not good enough for me to consent to a federal bail-out of the health insurance industry.

:dem:

-Laelth

How much is it going to cost me to get those 'crumbs'? Where are the Price Caps?

Will I still have a $5,000 annual deductible - which guarantees I never go to a doctor unless desperately ill?

I WILL NOT Settle for their measly scraps!!!