Ex-CIA Inspector General on Interrogation Report (DER SPIEGEL)

Interesting part here:

SPIEGEL: So the CIA used torture and methods resembling torture for nothing?

Helgerson: For nothing? This is not a matter of black or white -- "yes, they worked" or "no, they did not." Valuable, actionable information was elicited, using a variety of techniques, including long accepted, traditional approaches.

Unfortunately, torture is quite the black/white kind of stuff as in pain/no pain. What's the grey part? Tickling your toes? Anticipating sleeping under a waterfall?

torture isn't torture if the torture applied didn't go beyond the level of torture sanctioned.

The below excerpt is an example of that (warped) thinking.

"Our principal findings related to the manner in which the waterboarding had been carried out, as compared with the understanding that had been reached between the CIA and the Department of Justice. Basically, there was the matter of the frequency of the applications. We also observed that the way waterboarding was conducted was not consistent with what has been described concerning the amount of water"

Waterboarding is torture. Period. One drop of water or a thousand drops of water - ALL torture. Whether a person is waterboarded 1 time or 183 times - ALL torture.

When waterboarding is carried out - even once (full stop) - it is a crime against humanity. When it is carried out during war, it is also a war crime.

I am so sick of the bullshit talking point that (somehow) torture is only illegal if you torture a person beyond the agreed upon amount of torture.

The very thinking that one can legally authorize a certain amount of torture?

Shameful. Disgusting. Disgraceful. Craven. Sick.

It's the language of torture apologists and cowards.

and whatever warped rhetoric excuses they come up with, from an ethical standpoint of view, torture cannot be excused. It saddens me to see that some will get away by saying, 'I didn't cut in his throat as deep as someone else did. I was very humane; I just stabbed him a little. In the end, it was fun, ya know?!'

We also observed that the way waterboarding was conducted was not consistent with what has been described concerning the amount of water. Legally speaking, if they get away with this, empty all the prisons at once for anyone who did not commit murder in the first place. 'I just cut his arm off. I didn't burn him like described elsewhere. I was just doing surgical treatments on him to find some stuff out. Hey, it was all in fun!'

Send them to jail. Investigate, and don't retreat.

is OK with engaging in more torture than the torture agreed upon as acceptable by a war criminal executive...as if the extra torture is somehow the reason to be outraged.

OMG! Cheney doesn't respect the Constitution! Cheney supports the unacceptable torture that goes beyond the acceptable torture!

Of course Cheney doesn't respect the law and is OK with torture - he's a war criminal for fuck's sake.

The amount of torture doesn't matter..it's the torture. Period.

And American TV, parading its war criminals from (so-called) news show to news show. So shameful.


And I agree...empty the prisons. If a war criminal executive don't deserve prison...no one does.

Sorry. Ranting. :D

The past eight years will take some time to heal, and I really hope that especially Cheney will be brought to court. Even if whole Europe will have a warrant out on his war crimes, I'd be half-satisfied, since he still can have enjoyable holidays within the US. Like Kissinger can't really visit France anymore ...

On a side-note, did you observe the latest German State elections? I think there will be some big surprises in September ...