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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:12 PM
Original message
5 People Who Refused To Evacuate Won't Be Rescued
Edited on Mon Aug-31-09 06:14 PM by SoCalDem
Aug 31, 2009 2:16 pm US/Pacific
5 People Who Refused To Evacuate Won't Be Rescued
http://cbs2.com/local/station.fire.trapped.2.1154833.html

Map: SoCal Brush Fires

LOS ANGELES (AP) ―


The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department says five people who refused to heed wildfire evacuation orders are trapped in a canyon and it's too dangerous to rescue them. Sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore says the four men and a woman refused to leave the Angeles National Forest two days ago but on Monday they called for help because they were unable to leave a ranch in Gold Canyon.

snip

The 164-square-mile blaze has burned 21 homes and killed two firefighters.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sucks, but are you going to risk other lives if people are stubbron? n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. people always think someone will come back for them.
these folks' luck ran out.. I hope they manage to survive, but they did have a chance to get out..
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. See below...apparently the fire changed course, which is good news for them. n/t
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
63. Similar to mountain climbers who ignore warning
and then expect rescue teams to chance dangerous flying to rescue them.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. and snowboarders/skiiers who insist on going off-trail
Everything seems like a "great idea" , until something goes wrong..I guess that's human nature..for some of us:)
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. And they shouldn't be.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. I guess the Sheriff has to weigh his options
There is a point where a person has to take responsibility for their own actions and I guess this is that time for that five.
Still I worry for them
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Burning sounds like a horrific way to die.
I hope they can somehow dodge this flaming bullet, but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to put their own lives in jeopardy.

I always think, "it's only stuff". :(
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Most don't burn but die of smoke inhalation. Choices/Consequences. n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. It's only horriffic if you survive
and have the pain of dealing with massive burns, dressing changes, skin grafting, and the like, if you survive the first week.

Chances are they'd be unconscious from the lack of oxygen before the fire touched them.

It's horrible to contemplate, but tragedies like this will make other people a little more ready to leave when they're told they must.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Good point. I always think of the folks
last year who were told to get out of the path of Ike and refused to. Some bodies still haven't been recovered.

When/if I'm told to go by authorities, I plan on listening.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sometimes you wait to late and help can't come - that seems to be the case here
People in the middle of a hurricane don't get saved until after the storm begins to pass - because potential rescuers have to wait until its sane to go out.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's a tough call to make.
I feel for all involved and hope that their stubbornness doesn't kill them.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. it is hard indeed
it's hard to feel sorry for sheer stupidity but I'd be inhumane to not feel something for people in dire circumstances
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sucks to be them
:(
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Creena Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. I feel sorry for them, but they should have evacuated.
The firefighters have a hard enough job without needing to rescue people who should already be long gone.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. especially if there is little to no hope a potential rescuer will survive.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Now watch them try to sue the Sheriff's Dept.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I don't think that would "wash".. if they even survive
they had plenty of time to get out.. they chose poorly:(
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. They will try, if they survive (and if they don't their next of kin will) -
this is SoCal, land of too many hungry and stupid attorneys.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
75. If we could some how air drop masses of these attorneys on the fires
would the sheer weight of the lawyers smother the blaze?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Now here's where personal responsibility should play a role. These
Edited on Mon Aug-31-09 06:21 PM by valerief
fires are not a joke. I can't understand why people treat them like that.

I'm assuming they could have left with the Sheriff's Dept who advised them to leave a couple days ago.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. According to a caller to the Ron Reagan show
The fire changed direction and they are no longer trapped.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. That's good news....and I hope this serves as a lesson for others! n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. sadly, probably more will think they too could "make it"..
:(
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Excellent -good for them- its got to be scary to know you are beyond help
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. "Teh Stupid- It Burns"...
Sometimes people pay consequences for their actions.

It will probably be smoke, not fire, that kills them if they don't survive.

I hope they survive, condolences to their families whatever happens.

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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. That's sad, but it happens all the time. People won't leave their homes until the danger is there

But there is no need for rescuers to take unreasonable risk in a job where reasonable risk of life and limb is already really high.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. I don't know what has changed over the years, I don't know why
the refusal to rescue is so easily accepted.

This was the same mindset during Katrina.

Thank god is wasn't the the mindset during Camille.

04/16/04
LARCs Saved Hundreds Of Lives

The amphibious vessel LARC, to be dedicated Tuesday, sits in front of Biloxi's seafood museum. During Hurricane Camille, the building was the headquarters for the Mississippi National Guard's 138th Transportation Battalion. Wallace Farragut, the logistics officer, says, "We kinda gauged what we were supposed to do based on what we heard but we had no idea the intensity of the wake, of that water comin' across, the damage. No one could anticipate that, it was amazing."

Wallace Farragut and the company commander, Glenn Ryan, were in charge of getting the guardsmen and the LARCS where they were supposed to be. The crews evacuated nearly 300 people from Camille's raging waters. Farragut documented their stories. "It was rescues from all angles...from tree tops, telephone poles, attics. It was unbelievable," Farragut says.

Ryan and other battalion members who stayed in the building to guard equipment soon found themselves forced out by high water too. Lucky for them, one LARC was available. Ryan says, "I wound up having to use the one here, yeah, for us, not to help anybody else but to get us outta here." With water up to their necks, Ryan says their only other choice was to swim. "I guess we probably could have swam our way out behind the building to Myrtle which was also covered with water and down where the Palace is now there was about ten feet of water. So, yeah, what could we have done."

(snip)

24 awards were given to the guardsmen who saved people. Wallace Farragut says that's the most ever given in peace time, to a single unit of the Mississippi National Guard.

http://www.wlox.com/global/story.asp?s=2181353&ClientType=Printable


A single unit of the Mississippi National Guard saved 300 people from the surge and storm waters of Hurricane Camille in 1969.

Folks in 2005 weren't so lucky, no one came. :(

Transcript of some of the 911 calls in this article. http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=3869904

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Some people think they can 'ride it out', because the media always
runs the "heroic" stories of people who DO..and many people are just not prepared to "bug-out", and stay too long..then fear losing their "stuff".

many have too many pets and not enough help to get them out, so they roll the dice..
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
67. That's not what I am talking about.
It used to be the government would rescue just as these National Guardsmen did in 1969.

Imagine how many lives would be saved if LARCS were used in NOLA or during Katrina on the MS Gulf Coast.

We train SEALS and special forces to risk their lives for dangerous missions to kill and destroy - why not have those units try to save folks - why not have the adrenalin junkies put all that training and bravado to use trying to rescue citizens in need?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
78. If you are poor, without insurance, will be homeless if you lose everything,
Edited on Tue Sep-01-09 04:08 PM by benEzra
and/or have animals that the authorities will not evacuate (a la Katrina) and you lack the means to do so yourself, then the risk/benefit ratio will be different for you than if you are comfortably middle class, have homeowners insurance, contents coverage, money in the bank, and transportation to get your animals out of danger. For some people, trading a risk of dying for the chance to save everything they have ever worked for is a rational calculation.

Having said that, that choice does *not* entitle you to demand that someone else risk *their* life to come save yours if you change your mind about the decision you made to risk death.

And FWIW, we have pinched pennies in order to afford flood insurance, good homeowners' coverage, and full coverage on our vehicles, and the only animal we have so far is a cat, so we are not going to risk our lives to save our home if it comes to that. But I understand the choice of those who do so choose.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
58. I think part of it is distrust of government
Now, since the 1960s, there has been plenty of reason to distrust government officials. I think when the Pentagon Papers were published in 1969, people learned that the government doesn't always level with them. There may be good or bad reasons, but after 1969, I noticed a big change in the relationship between the government and the governed. Ronald Reagan capped his governmental career selling distrust of the government, and his party has run with that idea ever since, culminating in the lie-fest known as the Bush administration just passed. We seem to have lost the capacity to evaluate government claims any longer, and the default, knee-jerk reaction of a substantial portion of our society is to disbelieve what the government tells you, whether that's the president, one of his mouthpieces, the governor, right down to the local constabulary. Everyone seems to be suspect, and a lot of people just don't recognize any longer that a government official may indeed have your best interest at heart.

I don't know what the individual stories of the people trapped by the California fires might be, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of them have a deep-seated distrust of all government, and refused to believe the warnings because of who was issuing them.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
66. And in 1980 when Mt. St. Helen erupted
there were warning but some decided to stay. I don't know if their bodies were ever found.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. whoops
lulz
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. i am hoping they make it.... lesson learned. they say go, go. nt
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. Maybe the Gubernator they voted for will fly in with guns blazing and rescue them like the movies
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. You know, whether or not you approve of their decision to stay,
It's pretty disgusting to joke about the fact that these people will very likely die horribly. To imply, as you do, that their presumed vote for Schwarzenegger makes that even funnier is as low as you can get in political discourse.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. No one said it was funny.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Oh please. The self-satisfied smirks in some of the posts on this thread
are so obvious they're audible. And do tell, what reaction were you fishing for with that bit about the "Gubernator" swooping in and saving these no doubt mortally terrified people (whom you snidely assume voted for him.)

I have family in southern Cal. If some of them refused to evacuate, I'd be horrified and angry with them, but I'd understand. (My own family didn't evacuate when Hurricane Betsy hit southern Lousiana.) I might even understand the state's decision not to risk the lives of rescuers.

But I would not, and do NOT understand the kind of people who post messages sneering at plight of people who may very well be dying as the comments are posted. I really don't.


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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. I only made one post. I acknowledge my comments callousness. I am disgusted listening to Ahnolt
every time he comes out and plays Governor In A Tragedy Affecting Da Peeple Of Kollyfonia.

And yeah, they may have voted for him.

There is no blame or judgement, if they decided to stay, they knew the risk and that they would be aided if possible. I hope they survive.

My ONE comment was a swipe at the disgusting person running this state into the ground and his phony persona as hero.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. You extended your disgust for the governor to people you don't even know.
And so what if they voted for him? What in the name of HELL does that have to do with the merits of rescuing them?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I understand how upset you are. I'm sorry I contributed to that.
But you're projecting. I didn't say anything about "the merits."

They may have voted for him. "So what" is right. So what if they did.

Please read what I wrote and don't lump me in with all the rest of your anger.

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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. I nominate this thread
as one providing the Most Repulsive Opportunity for Pseudo-Macho, Borderline Sadistic Posturing
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Just like Arnold Schwarzenegger
:hi:
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Quick! When called on bad behavior, point to a conservative!
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I dis that phony asshole every time I have to listen to his disgusting voice on the news.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Except you weren't just dissing "that phony asshole."
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. especially in tragedies like this. Please read my other post and consider yourself acknowledged
:hi:
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. Self-absorbed children.
Selfishly putting adults at risk to rescue them from their own hubris. In this instance, they pouted too long.

I can't pity fools.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Does posting this make you feel all grown-up and smart?
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
62. Did your snippy response make you feel all warm and fuzzy in self-righteous indignation?


I felt like a reasonably smart adult long before I made my post. *I* don't play with fire.

Are you faulting me for my lack of sympathy? If it were at all possible, rescue people would have certainly put themselves in terrible danger because of the whims of these folks. Do you have any sympathy for them? Rescue crews Do and Should rescue folks caught unaware by danger and tragedy; they Shouldn't but Do risk their lives to save fools that imperil themselves and others by their sense of entitlement. Luckily, no firefighter's kids will be crying tonight because of this particular group of fools.


I'm not a firefighter.

I've actually entered a burning apartment building and wakened 7 strangers in the dead of night. It was scary. Maybe I would have done something like that to rescue a fool, also, but I'd sure as hell resent it.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. There's a lesson to be learned from this.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. One that, given some of the posts here, is more about the nature of
some online commenters than the bad, BAD judgement of those five people who refused to evacuate.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Heh. I was thinking more along the lines of : Glibertarians, either their hypocrites...
or they're dead.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. So you assume that they must not only have voted for Schwarzenegger,
but be Glibertarians?

Why?

And what does that have to do with the horror of being burned alive?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. (shrug) True - it's possible they were simply stupid....
But it's unlikely in the extreme that they were burned alive.
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Riiight. The fact that they might have died from smoke inhalation instead
makes some of the posts MUCH less revolting and callous.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. If it's just as revolting and callous, why did you deliberately choose the unlikely possibilitiy?
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Because I can remember the Oakland fire here in the Bay Area
clearly enough to know that in a very fast-moving fire, trapped people may not have time to suffocate before the flames reach them.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Yes, that is theoretically possible.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
49. Very little information to bash the 5 people
I know from personal experience the media gets facts wrong about a story when I knew all the facts.

However there is very little information and that's all it takes to bash the 5 people in there. All it says is the Sheriff Department says they refused to evacuate so they won't rescue them? Me, I'd like to hear from the 5 people directly and what exactly was their circumstances. Me I need more information but don't believe everything the media or any Sheriff's department tells you. Maybe I'm biased because Joe Arpaio the Sheriff where I live is known for twisting facts and absolving his department of responsibility whenever they abuse or even kill an pre-trial detainee.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. FACTS:
Their neighbors were evacuated.. they refused

later they phoned for help to get out

the sheriffs dept said it was too dangerous for his people, so they said no.

the fire did shift direction, and the last we heard on tv was that they were now in no immediate danger
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Thank Goodness.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Very good. Thank you.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. I can understand why they wouldn't go in there
Whether or not they refused. Same reason why I wouldn't fault a firefighter going into a building that is substantially burning to save someone who wasn't able to get out in time.

Just me I'd like to hear from the 5 people directly to hear whether they did refuse and exactly why. They could have a very good reason and you may ask what possible reason could that be and I don't know.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Certainly if it's possible for firefighters to reach them they will. Those staying know what the
risks are.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #49
76. You're judging a Sheriff negatively because of another Sheriff
Rather amazing actually. Profession bigotry.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Actually I did not
Edited on Tue Sep-01-09 04:15 PM by JonLP24
I just said I wouldn't bash 5 people I don't know based on very little information and because a Sheriff's department says so. It isn't judging a sheriff's department negatively by stating I'd like to hear their side of the story because I already have the Sheriff's department side of the story. I'd like to hear both sides rather then one side. Really bringing up Sheriff Joe was totally irrevelant to my point except for the fact it's possible they could be wrong or doesn't share all the facts or whatever and from personal experience about a situation where I knew all the facts but the articles that reported on the incident had many facts wrong.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
59. Maybe they had animals. But I swear I'd drag the animals kicking and screaming...
I'd hold the reigns and move them out. put them in the trunk of the car. carry on my head. strap to my body...

beg my neighbors. anything. anything. but I'd get the fuck out.
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Creena Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. Possible, but unlikely.
When I lived in Los Angeles, I volunteered to help get animals, both large and small, out of fire areas. We usually took the large animals to Pierce College. Plus, police are coordinating with the many sanctuaries determine what is best for their animals. From what I read, they wanted to band together and defend their house.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. That may well have been part of the reason
They will probably be interviewed one of these days.

people who live out in the rugged canyons are often people who shun communities. they like their privacy, and many times they have menageries. We had friends who bought a little "farmette" out in the middle of nowhere (in New Mexico). As soon as they got out there, they started getting animals.. after a few months they had 3 dogs, a bunch of ducks & chickens , a few peacocks, assorted cats & kittens, 2 goats and even some pigeons.

These people never even had a pet when they lived "in town"..

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. People who have horses are generally planned and prepared for evacuation in
So Cal fire areas.
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Creena Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. So very true.
I've never seen more organized and prepared people than those with horse properties in the fire areas. Everything is so coordinated and uniform, or at least as best as it can be during a wildfire. I'd get the call to grab my partner, bring my pickup to XYZ, get the horse trailer hitched up, and be on my way to Pierce.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Even suburbanites in Santa Barbara can tell you where to bring your horses: Earl Warren Show Grounds
I don't know where folks go if they live in Santa Ynez Valley, but I'm sure every schoolchild who lives there knows.

I hope those 5 fools survive intact -- and I hope they learn their lesson. Firefighters will do everything humanly possible to save lives and property, but they can and do die themselves and it's wrong to ask them to do so stupidly.

Hekate
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. The folks in Ojai are very coordinated as a community to get the horses out.
Yeah, reports are the wind shifted and those folks are all right. You're right about firefighters -- and if the Sheriff Dept. didn't have firefighters available....
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
74. this is a perfect analogy of our current health care reform debacle
the fire consuming us are the lives being destroyed by insurance companies, and those that can't even get insurance. it's literally consuming us alive.

the morans trapped in the blaze refusing to evacuate are the republicans who refuse to heed warnings, and think they know better. only after they are directly threatened, because it doesn't matter what everyone else is going through, only then will they finally come to their senses.

let's just hope health care reform doesn't end this way. not sending help is the equivalent of not getting the public option.

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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
77. It's called "cracking the whip".
They figure if they let these people serve as a lesson to others everyone else will obey. I hate what this country is evolving in to.
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