Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Do you think the War in Afghanistan is winnable?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread		 This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:14 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do you think the War in Afghanistan is winnable?
Do you think the War in Afghanistan is winnable?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Couldn't answer because I have no idea what we are doing there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm with you. But, our generals still believe they can 'win' something
there. And, they seem to have convinced the White House and Congress of the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Two voted yes. I guess McChrystal and Gates are DUers.
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. I voted "No", even though I have no fucking idea what "winning" is supposed to look like.
All I know is that it's absurd for us to be there. Afghanistan is an artificial construct imposed by the European powers of the day. It never has been, nor will likely ever be, a nation-state on the European model.

It seems to me that we're there to try to prop up an illusion. What a waste!

sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. That is precisely why I voted "no".
No one has a feasible idea of what "winning" looks like. We have once again stepped into a cultural and political mess by going in gunning with our military when we should have just stayed after the proposed objective of capturing Bin Laden and getting out. We have no chance of winning because we are not fighting a war. We are trying to nation build in a place that needs help, but cannot be fixed militarily.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. You need to define "winnable". That is important to the question. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't. The Pentagon and the White House do.
If they are going to sell us this winnable line, they need to define it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, because this is your thread, your question.
So what do YOU believe is "winnable". That is not an unreasonable question, but you might have to do some thinking about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. There is no winning, IMO.
There is an occupation. We can leave, and that is the closest thing to a win we have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. It begs the question
what would winning look like?

We need to get our troops out of there as soon as possible is what I think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. OFV Define winning? Winning what ? for who?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. How would anyone know when they won?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. funeral directors are the only winners
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. That's not true!
Somebody has to make the flags for all those coffins. And the headstones for the graves. And what about the florists?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. define "win...."
Edited on Mon Aug-31-09 07:19 PM by mike_c
I voted no, not so much because I don't think ANY objectives are achievable in Afghanistan, as because I don't think our objectives have ever been honestly articulated. Remove the Taliban from power and install a puppet government? Done. Utterly destroy the Taliban and make the puppet government loved, respected, and venerated by Afghanis? Not possible to impose from outside, or at least not possible to maintain. Something in the middle? What?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. We need to get out, NOW!
Waste of time, money, energy and lives. The whole Middle East is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ask the Russians
Or the Brits, or Alexander the Great. Among others through all of history who conquered many others, but failed miserably in Afghanistan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Only if we clone Greg Mortenson and fight by building schools and clinics.
https://www.ikat.org/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. "Win" what? A tomb in the 'Graveyard of Empires'?
I vote 'no'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Russians warned us, and they were right.
We are not too stupid to learn from history. The people who started this war wanted it to last forever. War is good for corporate profits.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Arm the anti-Taliban forces and PULL OUT.
Edited on Mon Aug-31-09 07:25 PM by LAGC
Let them settle it themselves. Prolonged top-down occupations only cause resentment among the populace towards the goals of the occupier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. the obvious question is what does "winnable" mean?
I have supported our continued presence there, if only to rebuild a country we helped to destroy - but I'm perhaps rethinking this, or at least questioning what exactly we hope to achieve there.

Because I haven't really gotten an explanation from the Obama administration. I don't think it's wise to pour men and material into such a situation without clearly defined goals.

So I guess I've gone from supporting to being on the fence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
qazplm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think we needed to go over there
I supported it, but the problem is that instead of doing it right, we got distracted by the huge mess that is Iraq.

So Afghanistan has languished as a secondary consideration for years and years.

And now it's become more or less unresolvable. There was a window of opportunity IMO but it has closed, and now we are just doing what folks who've gone into Afghanistan like Britain and Soviet Russia have done, spinning our wheels until we realize it is time to close up shop.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's not meant to be won.
It's meant to be fought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. Based on this latest election, no
The Afghan people are themselves are pissed off at the whole situation.

They're pissed at the heavy-handed tactics of the Taliban. They're pissed at Karzai. And they're pissed at Abdullah Abdullah, Karzai's opponent, who doesn't have a very good reputation for reform when he was in power before.

Mostly, they're angry at the massive government corruption AND the meddling of coalition forces in a land that TRIES to be isolationist, but keeps getting invaded by foreign armies.

Until THE PEOPLE of Afghanistan find a leader or cause that will lead them OUT of bloodshed and misery, nothing can be accomplished.

Until then, the war goes on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. define winnable please
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. Depends on what is considered a "win"

If, like me, you consider a win to be the complete dismantling of the Taliban with al Qaida disbanded... then I say yes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I don't think even that is possible.
Karzai is sitting where he is, about to claim re-election because of his deals with the Taliban. The Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan is like the healthcare industry here. They have the governments by the balls. Al Qaeda is already gone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. Define victory.
Practically, the answer is 'no'; Alexander the Great couldn't win a war in Afghanistan. The British couldn't win a war in Afghanistan. The Soviets couldn't win a war in Afghanistan. Santayana was right ('those who cannot learn from history...').
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC