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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:14 PM
Original message
Mormons kicked out of Guyana
http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2009/09/03/mormons-expelled-from-guyana/
<snip>

The Guyana Government has ordered the expulsion of all the foreign members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The church members, most of whom are Americans, were detained at the Headquarters of the Criminal Investigations Department, Eve Leary, yesterday, and were given 30 days to leave Guyana.
No official reason has been given for the move by the local authorities.
The action is being seen as a diplomatic issue since officials from the American Embassy in Georgetown, including Charge d‘Affairs Karen Williams, had to intervene on behalf of the detainees.

“This has now escalated to a diplomatic incident, I don’t possess any skills in that area,” said attorney Nigel Hughes, who is representing the detainees.
The church members who are known as Mormons, and who hail mainly from the state of Utah in the United States of America, have been in Guyana for over 20 years carrying out missionary and humanitarian work.
Kaieteur News was told that on Tuesday night, police had swooped down on the Lahama Gardens home of two of the church’s elders and arrested them.

“They (police) actually went to the home of the elders. They told them to pack their bags and head straight to the airport,” Hughes related.

----------------

Word across the English speaking Caribbean is espionage and other nefarious acts. I saw the 'gold fleecing thread' and can't help wondering if they weren't involved in the well known gold and diamond business in Guyana.
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tazkcmo Donating Member (668 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. We should do the same thing here in the U.S. n/t
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. What Constitutional means do you propose
we use to deport American citizens.
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The same means that the repukes would use against American Muslims.
Fear, slander and terror, terror, terror. The other must be destroyed, so that we can move on to the next other... lather, rinse repeat.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. So acting like Republicans has become acceptable
conduct
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. Please see post #35.
I was attempting (poorly it would seem) to be snarky in the previous post.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Yeah - good luck with that
For the record I am a Mormon - do you want to try and slander me? Terrorize me?

Bryant
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. So am I.
I should have used the :sarcasm: smiley, I was trying to point out that anti-Mormon behavior by Liberals is not all that different from anti-Muslim behavior by Conservatives, it both panders to the lowest common denominator. My apologies for the offense.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. We don't have to deport them, just wall off Utah and go back to 49 states
n/t
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Just wait--it could happen
If you fight for it, it will come.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Be careful what you wish for.
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Two-minutes Hate in 3...2...1...
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yup.
Cue the "magic underwear" and poligamy jokes. They never get old.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. "Man, that's a long bike ride from Guyana"
magic underwear and polygamy jokes are for amateurs
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. What? This has nothing to do with Nader. nt
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. So, the Guyanese do have limits when it comes to crazed religious cultists?
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. BwahaHAH!1 After Jonestown?!1 n/t
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yes, and in all fairness, I never had People's Temple members knock on my door...
and attempt to tell me some nonsense about golden tablets
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. They TOLD you some of that?!1 All they would jabber to me was about J.C.
I kept asking them WHAT about THEIR religion was DIFFERENT from regular Xtianity, and they wouldn't answer.
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. to be even more fair, I've had many more christians than mormons at my door babbling on about
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 08:14 AM by piratefish08
moses tablets.....

Starting to take off your clothes is an effective, but less than polite, way to get them off your porch.

just sayin'........
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. Visa foul-up.
The missionaries were later released and given 30-day notice to vacate.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. You see, this wouldn't have happened if they had used Mastercard.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Yep just heard the Caribbean news
Apparently visas have expired big time.
Still Guyana does not need another Jones Town.

If they were Guyanese in the US with expired visas, they wouldn't be that lucky
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. You're not up on the anti-Mormon talking points.
We don't commit mass-suicide, we commit mass murder. Mind you the last time we did it was in the 1850's, but it still gets an impressive amount of press here.
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. The reason Japan has..
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 05:40 PM by AsahinaKimi
less then 1% of a Christian population is probably because the Shoguns ordered all Christians to leave Japan, and those who remained would be hunted down and killed.

The "Christian problem" was, in effect, a problem controlling both the Christian daimyo in Kyushu and trade with the Europeans. By 1612 the shogun's retainers and residents of Tokugawa lands had been ordered to foreswear Christianity. More restrictions came in 1616 (the restriction of foreign trade to Nagasaki and Hirado, an island northwest of Kyushu), 1622 (the execution of 120 missionaries and converts), 1624 (the expulsion of the Spanish), and 1629 (the execution of thousands of Christians). Finally, in 1635 an edict prohibited any Japanese from traveling outside Japan or, if someone left, from ever returning. In 1636 the Portuguese were restricted to Dejima, a small artificial island — and thus, not true Japanese soil — in Nagasaki's harbor.

The Shimabara Rebellion of 1637-38, in which discontented Christian samurai and peasants rebelled against the bakufu — and Edo called in Dutch ships to bombard the rebel stronghold — marked the end of the Christian movement, although some Christians survived by going underground. Soon thereafter, the Portuguese were permanently expelled, members of the Portuguese diplomatic mission were executed, all subjects were ordered to register at a Buddhist or Shinto temple, and the Dutch and Chinese were restricted, respectively, to Dejima and to a special quarter in Nagasaki. Besides small trade of some outer daimyo with Korea and the Ryukyu Islands, to the southwest of Japan's main islands, by 1641 foreign contacts were limited to Nagasaki.

Japanese society of the Tokugawa period was influenced by Confucian principles of social order. At the top of the hierarchy, but removed from political power, were the imperial court families at Kyoto.


source:http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Tokugawa:shogunate.htm

My guess is, that people have tried to come back to Japan and converted some, but Japanese tend to be more superstitious then religious. Buddhism is more about the after life, for Japanese, while Shinto ideals concern day to day living. Japanese celebrate "Kurishimasu" but its more a romantic holiday then a religious one. Japan is the one place that frustrates Christians most... since no one there wants to even talk about converting.. (its bad luck!)
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Thanks for your link
I'd run them all too.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. Mormon missionaries overstay their visas all the time.
They just got caught this time.

It's too bad the nefarious overlords of that church have to put clueless boys into harm's way just to spread "the gospel", and a patently phony one at that...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I'm glad they got caught
but knowing my Caribbean people, they were doing something else or they would have just received a warning.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. The worst mormon mishies would do is desecrate another religion's holy places.
They've done it before, and usually take pics of it.

After all, when you belong to the "one true church", you don't have to respect any of the others...
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. A damn shame we let them stay here.
A group of fascistic un American bigots with way too much political power.

mark
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Wow. Switch "Mormon" for "Muslim" and it"s Free fuckin' Republic here!
I guess it's ok to be a bigot against the correct religions.
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. The Two-minutes Hate goes into overtime, indeed.
Mightly inclusive, that's us! :sarcasm:
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. I am a bigot against ALL religions, but the LDS is historically and
within my personal experience a group that activcely discriminates against those not in its group. This is not isolated individuals, but the top-down policy and doctrine.


mark
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. June 27, 1844 is the date of the ONLY justified lynching in American history
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. That's a bit extreme isn't it? n/t
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. The mormons can SUCK IT as far as I'm concerned! They campaigned
HEAVILY and put their hard earned money on the line in order to deny millions in the U.S. the right to marry.

They are arrogant bigots and I despise them.

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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. So it would seem.
Kind of a pity, there are Mormon Democrats (you're talking to one) and it's hard enough dealing with the conservatives in our own faith, but then we get slammed from the left too.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. Self-delete
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 03:52 PM by arbusto_baboso
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Good for Guyana.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
21.  Utah
will invade Guyana,with General Beck in charge.I can hear the cry,"the moron is coming",with his brigade of teabaggers.If Gayana is getting American aide,you betcha Orrin Hatch will sponser a bill to cut off the aide.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. Missionaries often act as spies, resource scouts, political provocateurs, etc.
It's how the west, won.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. Yup.
Before there were NGOs (non-governmental organizations) there were missionaries.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. Wish they'd kick them out of Korea as well
Along with the Seventh Day Adventists...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
33. After Jim Jones, I think they got tired of cults moving in...
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ahh the Mormons.
One of the acceptable groups to attack on DU. It's nice having an enemy to bring us all together isn't?
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
44. I have no problem with Mormons infiltrating other countries.
So long as the Mormons have no problem with non-Mormons infiltrating Utah! The more diversity the better -- everywhere -- the less chance of any one religion gaining a strange-hold over government and using those theocratic tendencies as a spring-board to suppress other peoples' rights.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
45. I think they should all take a deep breath
And then agree to have an equal proportion of Santeria missionaries in Utah as there are Mormons in Guyana
(OK, I know Santeria is not from Guyana, but I'm not gonna dig into local customs, you get the idea). I
somehow think the Santería missionaries would get an even less friendly reception in Utah than the Mormons
in Guyana and it would not be 20 years (probably not 20 days) before some serious friction arose.
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