Chavez: we should try for a speedy return of Jesus and the Twelfth Imam

So that they can fill this world with peace and justice.

Chavez has made these comments in a press conference with AhmadiNejad and after visiting the shrine of 8th Imam.

Unfortunately there is not a link with the English translation of this press conference as it just happened a short while ago.

But in any case wow...
:eyes:

Seriously, I used to like Chavez

Then, that whole "absolute power corrupts absolutely" thing kicked in...

Evo Morales, on the other hand, has been all about Bolivians.

Chavez should take a lesson from Morales.

He was just there in April.

I have Iranian friends and if I could afford it, I would love to accept their invitations to visit their country. Europeans visit Iran all the time, why should Americans find it odd for someone to go there? Are they a declared enemy of the US? Are we at war with them or something?

American business men, including our former VP have no problem doing business there. That's a strange comment to make.

As for Chavez visiting there, he like every other country, is doing business with Iran and Russia and China and Germany like we do.

If the US would move out of the dark ages and join the rest of the civilized world, they would quickly start doing business with him also. Latin America is exploding with democracy and new opportunities. The US as usual would rather steal resources than deal honestly with countries whose resources we need.

As for the comment about Christianity and Islam, what a nice thought, if it is indeed an accurate translation. Peace on Earth. A novel idea in the war-mongering Empire formerly the Democratic Republic known as the US.

I don't see Venezuela invading other countries, backing coups against their democratically elected leaders, or stealing their resources.

Get back to me when he starts doing any of those things.

I don't care if he visits Iran, North Korea or Bhutan.

BUT - keep in mind Chavez wasn't always a Despot.

During the first 2 terms, he was a great leader.

He should have stepped down after that.

at all, quite the contrary, and I have been following the news on Venezuela since the US backed attempted Coup in 2002. His people disagree also, by a large margin. After a decade and several re-election victories, his popularity numbers remain extremely high. There is a well-funded opposition effort to discredit him, in Venezuela and elsewhere (see the OP). So far, with all their efforts, they have failed to convince the only people in a position to judge, Venezuelans, that the lies and smears they diligently spread every day, are remotely believable.

I think you are probably, inadvertently maybe, getting your news from some of those sources, or from the extremely compromised and deliberately biased droppings of useful tools like Simon Romero. He's due for another factless, petty piece of propaganda in the NYT any day now.

But, if you have some evidence that he is a despot, I will read it. I am fiercely opposed to despots which is why I found Chavez to be a breath of fresh air in Venezuela, considering its history of puppet despotss who sold its people to the highest bidders.

He has used Venezuela's resources to benefit the Venezuelan people. He's not perfect, but show me someone who is. He has brought his country out of the depths of poverty it was in and provided access to education for all his citizens, with emphasis on women and the disabled, and is many ways ahead of us here is some areas. Right now, after the past decade of corruption and Imperialism, greed and crimes against humanity at the highest levels in THIS government, Chavez looks like a paragon of virtue at times.

But that is what makes us better than them - we don't shut down dissent.

shut down dissent. Several good reporters eg, were fired during the Bush administration for reporting truthfully on the war and other issues. The Donahue Show, despite being the highest rated on tv at the time, was shut down because 'during wartime' we don't need no lieberals on the air.

And the Bill Maher Show was canceled after he made a statement regarding bombing people from the air, on a show that was called 'Politically Incorrect'.

Ashley Banfield, an embedded MSMBC reporter in Afghanistan, I believe, was fired after she told the truth about what she actually saw in Afghanistan AFTER the cameras stopped rolling.

Greg Palast, a prize-winning investigative reporter cannot get a job in the US media because he tells the truth. He had to go to the BBC to report on his investigative work.

The man who wrote 'Bush's Brain' another prize-winning veteran journalist, found himself on the no-fly list.

Then there are the dead reporters, like Gary Webb, who was ostracized after his excellent investigative reporting and novel Dark Alliance got some people in DC very upset. He lost his career, as has Ashley Banfield who was a rising star on cable news, and supposedly killed himself although many believe he was murdered.

We have been criticized by Doctors Without Borders for possibly targeting reporters in Iraq, and we have arrested, held and tortured a respected ME journalist for over six years to prevent him from reporting news Washington preferred to keep quiet.

More reporters have been killed in Iraq than in any other war so far. Many of them accidentally, but many suspected of being targeted by the US military. Especially the first two, an Al Jazeera reporter and a Spanish reporter. There was also the attempt to kill an Italian Reporter who had been a hostage. Her liberator, an Italian Hero was shot dead, she believes by US forces and she was seriously injured.

I could go on, because the state of our media has a long history of intimidation and silencing of dissent. But none of that excuses other countries for using similar tactics. Our media is a disgrace, owned by major corporations, and censored of any kind of real news. On the world scale of free press, we rated somewhere around #53 a few years ago, down in the area of some third world dictatorships. So US media is not a standard by which to compare anyone else.

Otoh, I am aware of the controversy over Chavez' move to shut down some of the thousands of private media outlets. In the western media the stories are always pool stories, with only one side of the issue being told.

I have researched it and found a different view in some of the Latin American press and from Venezuelan bloggers.

Bottom line, Venezuela's media was all privately owned and controlled by big corporations. There are, according to Venezuelans thousands of rightwing opposition news papers and radio stations promoting anti-Chavez propaganda 24 hours a day. Imagine a thousand Fox News stations. There was very little balance if any, and Chavez wants to create more balance. Some of these stations btw, were openly promoting the assassination of Chavez. I don't they'd last here as long as they have there.

That is not to say I agree with HOW he went about closing down a relatively small number of them. But for a democracy to survive, it needs an unbiased media reporting facts not propaganda and I hope he finds the right balance. I believe he sincerely wants to do so, but inciting violence is not free speech.

It will be difficult. Venezuela is a new democracy and it could use some help. The US however has been funding some of these inciters instead of supporting the democratically elected government. He knows he has major enemies so concern for his life is real. I think he will get it right, he has made some mistakes, but who hasn't?

The stations kicked off the public airwaves remain free to broadcast by satellite and cable, and they do.

And far from taking lessons from Morales, Morales has taken lessonos from Chavez on how to survive American destabilization attempts.

He is visiting Iran way too frequently. Almost there every 3-4 months.

I do not know if any other heads of states have official visits as often as Chavez and AhmadiNejad do.

:crazy:

The Koran, follows the last book of the Christian bible in saying it is Christ that will come back at the end of time. Among Shiites he will be accompanied by the "12th Iman".

As to the 12th Iman, 85% of all Shiites are "Twelvers". Shiite is roughly Translated means "party of Ali". Ali was the son in law of Mohammad. The Shiites believe that Mohammad wanted Ali to succeed him, but at the death of Mohammad, his followers picked another person. Ali accepted the election (it followed traditional Arab custom) but made his objections. These continued in the next two elections but on the fourth election of a Caliph, Ali was picked. Both Sunnis and Shiites accept Ali as a valid Caliph, but at his death the split that had existed since the death of Mohammad became permanent. The Shiites refuse to accept the election of Ali's successor as Caliph, instead the Shiites accept Ali's descendant (Via Mohammad's daughter) as the true Caliphs (Called Iman among the Shiites). At the death of the 12th Iman the family directly dies out (Other decedents of Ali exist, if their are a religious leader their wear a black turban, if NOT decedent then a white turban).

More on Twelvers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

Under Shiite doctrine the 12th Iman will come back with Christ, thus Chavez is just responding to Shiite Religion beliefs.

He is respecting the religion of others. We could take a lesson from him on that. I guess we prefer to refer to Muslims a 'ragheads' etc. Seems to me he is far more evolved than some of our current leadership.

Chavez himself is a Catholic, I believe. But apparently not a fundy as he is able to relate to the beliefs of others,, and find common ground.

or whatever.

It doesn't bother me what others choose to believe in, and fortunately in this country, religious beliefs and believers are protected as well as in Venezuela.

I have opinions also, not that they matter. I hate the beliefs of some religions here that eg, claim Gays are sinners against God. And I really hated it when Obama invited someone who had expressed such beliefs to speak at his inauguration. He said he wanted to include everyone and that he did not agree with those beliefs but found other areas of common ground with the pastor.

The issue isn't what we as individuals hate, it's whether or not we are strong enough to respect the beliefs of others and recognize their right to those beliefs, without feeling threatened by them and without the need to hate the people, no matter how we hate their beliefs.

Chavez and Obama are probably better people than I am. I would find it hard to do what they have done to be honest, but it doesn't mean I can't respect them for being able to rise above their own beliefs and try to find areas where there is agreement. It's doubtful that Chavez shares the beliefs of Islam, he is a devout Catholic by all accounts, but he found an area where there is agreement, that peace is a desirable goal. I see nothing wrong with that.

There is a sect in Shiite Islam that believes that we could help for a speedy return of Mahdi by making the conditions right.

The story has it that Mahdi will come when there is violence and bloodshed, so you get the idea.

This sect was banned during Khomeini's era but seems to have resurfaced and some in Iran are speculating that the latest election/ coup was done by the people of Hojjatieh sect.

Shiites are not obsessed with Mahdi's return or keep talking about armageddon as this group is. Since Khomeini and his closest followers were very dismissive of this group, some speculate that now the Hojjatieh in their latest comeback are taking revenge and pushing aside the original revolutionaries and slowly grasping the control.

Ahmadinejad and his mentor Mesbah Yazdi are said to belong to this group and they would do absolutely anything to make things "ready" for Mahdi's arrival.

That would be of huge help to the entire world, Hugo.

Figures, Marxism is just another end-time theology.

I thought he was more of a Bolivarian populist, which pre-dated Marxism by some years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvar

Hopefully, he'll lose his job in the not too distant future.

with whom he is more popular than many of our own presidents have ever been, you have no say in that. They are very pleased with the job he is doing for them and their country.

Maybe you should turn your attention to this country, which has invaded two other countries, tortured innocent civilians for years, crashed the global economy, lost millions of jobs for Americans, has tens of millions of Americans without healthcare (I'm sure Chavez would welcome the sick from this country as he has provided cheaper oil for poor Americans) and has a record of human rights violations in its own prison system not to mention the highest incarceration rate in the world for non-violent offenders, etc. etc.

I'll say it again, when Chavez starts invading other countries for their resources and torturing people, I'll start paying attention.

Americans need to stop criticizing other nations, we don't have the moral authority anymore, and no one much cares what our opinion is, until we clean up our own backyard.