Question For All Those Who Say Obama's Plan is a Gift To Insurance Companies

Why are Insurance Companies Fighting It as if their LIVES depended on it if it's such a gift?

fighting it at all.

Behind the scenes, they're writing it.

They're only fighting a true public option/single payer program. They love what was announced last night. That's why their stocks went up today. They're gonna make out like bandits.


And why not? After all, that's what they fucking are.



Tansy Gold, mad as hell

They have it.

Between money in lobbying and campaign contributions, to town hall fervor...

It all gives them leverage, power, to negotiate the deal with the best outcome for them.

Of course it could still bite them in the tush if Obama places comprehensive regulation on them, including price controls.

and unfortunately all indications are that he won't.


you made a good point about "maximum leverage in the negotiations" though.

exactly, and same here. (mad as hell.) :hi: :toast:

name-calling again -- did you take classes?

Yeah, let's marginalize and denigrate people who have different opinions.

pom poms :eyes:

On the right, individual mandates.

On the left, a full and viable Public Option.

Come September:

On the right, batshit crazy, death panel socialism arguments for no action.

In the middle, individual mandates and maybe co-ops.

On the left, a full and viable Public Option.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Sometimes it's not easy...

And then he has the gall to cry for civility among Democrats.

It is politics. Every lobbyist and activist knows this. Activists ask for everything, then compromise down. Corporations fight everything, and because they've got more power on any one issue, they give just a little bit because corporations have the capability to exist into infinity, they will take the long view. They know that they can live and live and live to fight another day.

:thumbsdown:

Obama's speech was good news for insurance companies.

Period.

The market has spoken more reliably than a poll.

i missed that, though i'm not surprised in the least. was it a significant increase? (i admit, i don't know anything about stocks.)

is well, tinfoil hattery.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AET&.yficrumb=pp.IAcZAHvr

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=WLP

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=UNH

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CI

Generally up 2.5% to 5%+ for the day.

Blowing smoke up the public's ass is one way of getting the toys you've been promised behind closed doors.

Also, we end up with a ridiculously watered down version of reform when passed won't take effect for several years during which the health "care" industry can throw billions in campaign contributions and lawsuits.

hallucination? Wow, must've been those mushrooms I did back in the '70s.

Or else someone is just full of shit.

:dem:

-Laelth

And btw I don't think it's just a gift to the insurance companies but it is certainly a compromise.

it's also a gift to pharma (no mention of negotiating drug prices) and, with the large out of pockets HR3200 permits, it will also be a gift to the credit card companies as people continue to use plastic to pay medical expenses.

Why did the Health Insurance Company stocks go up today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6516981&mesg_id=6516981

the ins.co. pockets are Deep.

The line was not drawn on a public option and according to President Obama, perhaps a "better" idea will come along in the 4 years. Why 4 years? 2013...keeping the carrot on the stick to keep the support of us "lefties"

I'm almost 58 years old and was not born yesterday.

were passed.

Very few people will be eligible for the public option and will be required to purchase the shoddy products the private insurers offer.

The whole bill, along with the nearly 4 year delay in the public option, is designed to shore up an industry that is unsustainable on its own and whose bubble is going to burst if it doesn't get some help. It's become a very familiar story.

either directly as an individual or through their employer.

The 4-year "delay" as you call it has a meaningful purpose: the system won't be able to handle the amount of people coming into it all at once. All we need is for the system to meltdown or have the first sign of delays or problems, and people will be crying "SEE I TOLD YOU IT WAS RATIONING!"

for the public opiton and you will not be allowed to drop the plan you're on to move to it. The CBO has estimated that only 10 million people will be covered by it by 2019. It took 11 months to get Medicare up and running - there's no reason it should take years to get this going.

I have no doubt that the public option is being set up to fail. It's required to be self supporting, it will start out mainly insuring those with preexisting conditions and, in a few years when it cannot sustain itself, Congress will either start cutting its benefits or raising the premiums to the point we'll be right back to where we started.

I've noticed you often accuse others of spreading misinformation yet you never give any links to anything that proves the poster is wrong. You're the one who spreads misinformation by denying what is actually in the bill.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-to-a-Joint-Session-of-Congress-on-Health-Care/

But an additional step we can take* to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. (Applause.) Now, let me be clear. Let me be clear. It would only be an option for those who don't have insurance.

*not "we will make"

<<Why 4 years? 2013...keeping the carrot on the stick to keep the support of us "lefties".>>

the drug companies have also been running a commercial in support of health care reform.

AHIP Commercial in Support of Health Reform

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=369087&mesg_id=369087
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R36YJl8SagU

they are facing declining premiums as the boomers move to Medicare and they certainly do not want to face the real enemy...a national, not for profit system such as single-payer.

Links to the their press releases are in my prior post.


Health Plans Propose Guaranteed Coverage for Pre-Existing Conditions and Individual Coverage Mandate

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 19, 2008


BCBSA Announces Support for Individual Mandate Coupled with a Requirement for Insurers to Offer Coverage to All

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November 19, 2008

Is that what you are saying?

from November 2008?

The real enemy was single-payer, which was taken off the table from the beginning.


This is from the Bill Moyers' show in July, I do believe they got it right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8645308&mesg_id=8645308

BILL MOYERS: So, does this explain why Harry and Louise, who were around 15 years ago to help defeat Bill Clinton's health plan, Bill and Hillary Clinton's health plan, are back now in support? Seemingly to be in support?

MARCIA ANGELL: You bet it does....

BILL MOYERS: Wouldn't that make you think that Big Pharma is supporting health care reform?....

MARCIA ANGELL: Yes...

BILL MOYERS: But on their terms, right?

MARCIA ANGELL: On their terms. Exactly....

(snip)

TRUDY LIEBERMAN: What's happened now is that the industries have gotten pretty much what they want out of the bills that are going forward.

And so, they need to build public support. They need to make everybody in the public realize that they actually are wearing white hats in this one. But behind the scenes, they are lobbying ferociously against the public plan....against all kinds of things that they don't want....

(snip)

Help. I am trying to respond to a thread that is just 9 days old, but it says it is archived. Does archived mean it cannot be responded to? The thread is somewhat relevant to this topic. and is titled 'Help! SUBSTANTIVE Response Needed to Healthcare E-mail!'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6442889
In the email he says the bill will drive insurers out of business, but as someone who is looking for health insurance in Hong Kong, I know that health insurance is alive and well in countries with large public care systems.

I just wanted to add that the author of the mail in question also wrote an email in 2004 called 'A Soldier's Letter to John Kerry' that was looked into by the fact checking Snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/connelly.asp

BTW, democratic underground is blocked in mainland China.

:hi:

:toast:

They fought like animals to block a medicare like public option. And they won.

They aren't fighting now. That is because they won. They won't face competition from a medicare like public option, and they won't be eliminated due to single payer.

The insurance companies will do great:


They will face regulations, but those regulations will apply to all insurance companies (so its neutral for them and good for the US, so not a bad idea).

They have a captive market of 50 million who are forced to buy their product

They will probably still do recissions and pre-existing exclusions because it is cheaper to pay the fines than to avoid breaking the law and paying for sick people. Keep in mind the same government that talks about regulating insurance companies is the same one that talks about regulating financial institutions. The insurance companies know the score.



So they have largely won. Single payer is off the table. Single payer's compromise of the public option is likely gone. Now they get a captive market of 50 million people forced to buy their unreliable, overpriced product and in exchange they will get weak regulation which they will get around and probably ignore.

Subject: Help needed on archived, but recent, thread
Message:
Help. I am trying to respond to a thread that is just 9 days old, but it says it is archived. Does archived mean it cannot be responded to? The thread is somewhat relevant to this topic. and is titled 'Help! SUBSTANTIVE Response Needed to Healthcare E-mail!'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6442889&mesg_id=6442889
In the email he says the bill will drive insurers out of business, but as someone who is looking for health insurance in Hong Kong, I know that health insurance is alive and well in countries with large public care systems.

I just wanted to add that the author of the mail in question also wrote an email in 2004 called 'A Soldier's Letter to John Kerry' that was looked into by the fact checking Snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/connelly.asp

BTW, democratic underground is blocked in mainland China.

Help. I am trying to respond to a thread that is just 9 days old, but it says it is archived. Does archived mean it cannot be responded to? The thread is somewhat relevant to this topic. and is titled 'Help! SUBSTANTIVE Response Needed to Healthcare E-mail!'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6442889&mesg_id=6442889
In the email he says the bill will drive insurers out of business, but as someone who is looking for health insurance in Hong Kong, I know that health insurance is alive and well in countries with large public care systems.

I just wanted to add that the author of the mail in question also wrote an email in 2004 called 'A Soldier's Letter to John Kerry' that was looked into by the fact checking Snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/connelly.asp

BTW, democratic underground is blocked in mainland China.

in exchange for cutting their prices $80B over ten years

They definitely want reform-- the type of reform that they are able to write, since they are such good friends with the dems now.

(who?) met at the WH that day? I did mix the figure up, but I'm sure there were several entities besides Phrma.
My brain gets foggier by the day.

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/09/04/the-corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-serving-themselves-or-the-public/

The Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform: Serving Themselves Or The Public?

Posted by John Geyman MD on Friday, Sep 4, 2009

"As we recall, a high-profile event at the White House in May 2009 brought together most of the major corporate stakeholders in the U. S. health care system in an effort to build momentum toward reform. The Obama Administration welcomed the cooperative spirit and combined pledges of some stakeholders to shave 1.5 percent off the growth in health care spending over ten years, amounting to “savings” of about $2 trillion. The meeting was proclaimed “an historic event” boding well for the goals of reform — gaining near-universal coverage to affordable health care while reining in costs and improving quality of care.

Having considered the voluntary, unenforceable pledges, together with the agendas and subsequent actions by five of the major stakeholders, it is now useful to re-assess the impacts on reform by the corporate “alliance” struck at that time. Table 1 summarizes the pledges and agendas, as well as the tactics and likely rewards, for the Big Five stakeholders..."

"to shave 1.5 percent off the GROWTH in health care spending over ten years" - hello, people! that's off the GROWTH, not off the total cost!! and Obama actually referred to ***1/10 of a percent*** off GROWTH (not REDUCING costs by 1/10 of a percent!) last night.



we've been totally sold out, if it's not crystally clear at this point, then... people need glasses, or something. :grr:


:argh:

:hi:

I am trying to respond to a thread that is just 9 days old, but it says it is archived. Does archived mean it cannot be responded to? The thread is somewhat relevant to this topic. and is titled 'Help! SUBSTANTIVE Response Needed to Healthcare E-mail!'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6442889&mesg_id=6442889
Among other things in the email he says the bill will drive insurers out of business, but as someone who is looking for health insurance in Hong Kong, I know that health insurance is alive and well in countries with large public care systems.

I just wanted to add that the author of the mail in question also wrote an email in 2004 called 'A Soldier's Letter to John Kerry' that was looked into by the fact checking Snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/connelly.asp

I had been trying to post through a proxy server (because I thought this site was blocked in mainland China, it's not) and kept getting messages saying that the post was not allowed due to problems with cookies not being accepted etc.

still, welcome to DU, and you can actually delete duplicate posts by clicking on "edit" and deleting the body of the message...

btw, it's good to know that DU is not blocked in China, after all. :P

Where did you get that idea? They WANT this proposal to go through. They want 40+ million new customers who will be forced to buy their products or become criminals. They want those new customers premiums to be subsidized by the Federal Government. Why would they fight against that?

:shrug:

:dem:

-Laelth

since Obama started running for office.

Most people agree the President's plan will be a boon to health insurance companies. They want to shape this legislation, certainly, and at that they have done a wonderful job, but they are not fighting it by any means.

:dem:

-Laelth

that goes through my mind...

:rofl:

:eyes:

Well, at least he's heavily suggesting it should be considered...

No mas...

:toast:

:pals:

AND you're completely factually wrong.

:thumbsdown:

There will be a trigger that never gets pulled, i.e. no public option.

As I said, the insurance industry wants to shape this legislation, and they have done a wonderful job of that.

In fact, they have shaped it so well that I, and many like me, now oppose the President's proposal.

:dem:

-Laelth

Supporting the President who made the case for the Public Option in the first place and who supports it.

He said he is open to other ideas that achieve the same goals as a Public Option, but so far, there isn't anything on the table that does that.

So keep pushing Congress to pass a Public Option then. That's what the majority of people here are trying to do *and* we still support the President while doing it.

They will certainly fight like crazy to get EVERYTHING they want. A mandate without a public option and no caps on costs for people who actually need to use their insurance.

Seems obvious.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/16/harry-and-louise-back-on-_2_n_236198.html

"Harry and Louise are coming back to television screens across the country to talk about overhauling health care. This time, they've switched sides..."

A PROGRESSIVE Organization who has been FIGHTING the Insurance Industry and lobbying for Reform.

Some people here have really lost it.

"sponsored by Families USA, which champions affordable health care for families, and the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. The two groups, often at odds, have joined forces this year to support some general principles behind revamping health care, such as making it more affordable for low-income people."

on the table. So far, the insurance companies have offered $0.

the Bill Moyers interview...you have to connect some dots for yourself.

:evilgrin:

bills...read what Harkin had to say about the amendment, then check the bio stocks for the time period that it was approved in Congress.

The BTK went up 16% in one day.

:think:

Newly released records of visits to the Obama White House by health care executives provide some important new details not included in the White House’s July 22 letter sent to CREW on the eve of the President’s health care press conference. The records identify the names of the individuals the visitors were meeting with, and include information about scheduled appointments that apparently never took place. The new records include information from WAVES records, which show the scheduled dates of appointments, as well as ACR records, which show when the visitor actually entered the White House complex. Details from the new records are outlined below.

Bill Tauzin (President and CEO, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America):
• March 5 (meeting with president)
• May 19 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• June 2 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• June 24 (meeting with Clare Gallagher)
• July 7 (meeting with Jim Messina)

Karen Ignagni (President and CEO, America’s Health Insurance Plans):
• March 5 (meeting with president)
• March 6 (meetings with Elizabeth Bafford and Larry Summers)
• March 11 (meeting with Jennifer Cannistra)
• June 30 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Richard Umdenstock (President and CEO, American Hospital Ass’n.):
• February 4 (meeting with Tina Tchen)
• February 23 (meeting with president)
• March 5 (meeting with president)
• March 25 (meeting with Jennifer Cannistra)
• March 30 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)
• April 6 (meeting with Tina Tchen)
• May 22 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

J. James Rohack (President-elect, American Medical Ass’n.):
• March 25 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)
• June 22 (meeting with president)
• June 24 (meetings with Clare Gallagher and president)

William Weldon (Chairman and CEO, Johnson & Johnson):
• May 12 (meeting with president)

Jeffrey B. Kindler (Chairman and CEO, Pfizer Inc.):
• March 5 (meeting with president)

• May 6 (meetings with Sarah Fenn and Elizabeth Bafford)
• June 2 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Stephen J. Hemsley (President, CEO, Director, UnitedHealth Group, Inc.):
• May 15 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• May 22 (meeting with Peter Orszag)
• July 14 (meeting with Aneesh Chopra)

Angela Braly (President, CEO, Director, WellPoint, Inc.):
• February 13 (meeting with president)

George Halvorson (Chairman and CEO, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan):
• March 27 (meeting with Keith Fontenot)
• June 5 (meeting with Peter Orszag)
• July 23 (meeting with Kathleen Sibelius)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Jay Gellert (President and CEO, Health Net, Inc.):
• February 10 (meeting with Tina Tchen)
• March 11 (meeting with Jennifer Cannistra)
• March 20 (meeting with Matt Flavin)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Thomas Priselac (President and CEO, Cedars-Sinai Health System):
• April 3 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)

Richard Clark (Chairman, President and CEO, Merck):
• March 24 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)

Wayne T. Smith (Chairman, President and CEO, Community Health Systems):
• June 4 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Rick Smith (Sr. Vice President, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America):
• May 19 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• June 2 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• July 7 (meeting with Jim Messina)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/20090904%20-%20Summary%20of%20Health%20Care%20Visits.pdf


The plan was hammered out a while ago. August was the month of distraction, getting everyone in a tizzy, obama comes out in Sept and plays good cop with an eloquent speech, as long as you're willing to settle for anything with hefty dose of hope for future "incremental changes". What emerges will be what was decided at the white house among the real players in the list above. No public option or something called a public option that will die a quick death and the real reason for all this staged drama- mandates and another massive transfer of wealth to the top in the form of subsidies which in reality are additional taxpayer funded extortion payments added to co-pays, deductibles and premiums.
All this to keep an unneeded, wasteful and bloated middleman that adds nothing of value to health care.

The system is still class based with the shitty care if any at all offered to the working poor. At best 17 million left uninsured. Tens of thousands of people will die for lack of access to healthcare paying the highest price of all so the comfy middle class and above can keep their private employee and individual ins. plans.

Except we have a new name for folks unable to pay the mandated high costs for the privileged of supporting massive and wasteful overhead and excessive profit- Deadbeats.

if you have time check out this interview with Jame Hamsher.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=369101&mesg_id=369101

:)

Heres a good article:

"Many believe that President Obama effectively used his address to set the stage for the final phases of the reform process, with no turning back. We desperately do need to push on with reform, but it needs to be reform that works.

When President Obama mentioned single payer last evening, there was an embarrassing smattering of applause. Democrats were there to support the president who supports a mandate to purchase private plans that you can’t afford. How embarrassing. Supporting a plan that serves the private insurance industry so well, at great cost to the American people.

So you disagree? You think that this will serve middle-income Americans well? Prove it! Demand a full study that calculates premiums for private plans with adequate benefits and adequate financial protection in the face of medical need and includes all risks in the pools, that determines the premiums as a percent of income at various income levels, that determines the size of the subsidy that would be required to make the balance of the premiums affordable at each income level, that determines the level of cost sharing that would be required of those with needs, that determines the true amount of public funding that would be necessary to support those premiums and cost sharing, and then describes precisely the sources of that public funding."

http://pnhp.org/blog/


I won't hold my breath for answers to that last paragraph of questions. It's much easier to cheer for plan that is just vague enough to fool the masses.

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/09/10/census-bureau-report-on-health-insurance-coverage/

"...Those crafting reform can’t make the numbers work. If you can’t either, then join us in a march on Washington to demand that they enact reform with numbers that do work in providing all of us with the health care that we need. Sacrificing the insurers should not be an embarrassment to any of us. It should be a matter of pride."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q1hPanrtGk


people responsible for it at the end -Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers of America