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Transsexual prisoner wins move to women's jail

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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 05:09 AM
Original message
Transsexual prisoner wins move to women's jail
A transsexual prisoner serving life for manslaughter and attempted rape committed while she was a man has won a high court battle to be transferred to a women's jail.

Deputy judge David Elvin QC quashed a decision by the justice secretary, Jack Straw, to continue detaining the 27-year-old, referred to only as A, in a male prison.

The judge said the refusal was a violation of her human rights. He said: "I declare her continued detention in a male prison is in breach of her rights under Article 8 under the European Convention on Human Rights."

The judge was told that steps had been taken to transfer A, described by her lawyer as "a woman trapped inside a man's body", to a female prison "as soon as possible".

Phillippa Kaufmann, appearing for A, told the court: "The transfer should be effective in a few weeks."

Kaufmann had described at a recent hearing how, although apparently born male, A had her womanhood recognised by law and her birth certificate had been amended to show her female sex.

Hair on A's face and legs had been permanently removed by laser and she had developed breasts after hormone treatment.

But she was forbidden from wearing skirts or blouses, or more than "subtle" make-up, at the men's prison where she was being held on a "vulnerable prisoners" wing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/04/transsexual-human-rights-courts?CMP=AFCYAH
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. jeez this is going to be a management nightmare, glad its not me whos having to deal with it
Edited on Sat Sep-12-09 05:24 AM by vadawg
wait until another prisoner gets pregnant, then its all going to go pear shaped..
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. £80,000 per year extra to take care of this piece of shit murdering rapist.
The Department of Justice and the prison authorities argued that she would be no more likely to be accepted by inmates at a female prison and would have to spend long periods in segregation at an extra cost of £80,000 a year.

England has lost its mind.

They should simply release the prisoner now since they seem to be so concerned about things like mental health and early release. After all, we're only talking about manslaughter (presumably womanslaughter) and rape here.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Cost of care isn't part of the Convention on Human Rights
and so the judge wouldn't have said "sounds a bit expensive, screw the human rights laws, eh?".
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. No, the judge should have said,...
...."You have a history of killing and raping a female. One that we know about, and the court isn't interested in your problems since you are in jail for life, as you should be."
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. However, the judge decided to follow the law instead
And you know what? The person is still in prison. The life sentence hasn't been affected.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. None of which changes the reasons for my position.
Edited on Sat Sep-12-09 10:30 AM by imdjh
The prisoner is not entitled to a sex change operation or medical care of that sort at the expense of the state.
The prisoner is not entitled to be placed in the women's prison.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. That's what national health care is about
you don't refuse treatment to criminals.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. If she is taking hormones, that won't happen.
You're also assuming that she has a desire to have sex with other women.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Rape doesn't require a penis.
You're also assuming that she has a desire to have sex with other women.

Naw, I'm just "assuming" the prisoner has a history of raping and killing a woman.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. So then there are likely other biologically female inmates at the women's prison...
...who have a history of raping and killing a woman.

What should be done with them?
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. They should be in women's prison.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. So your criteria is chromosomes, not safety.
Just to clarify.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. No. My criteria is to not let you straw man me off topic. nt
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Um, what I posted is directly relevant to what you posted...
You said that your primary concern was introducing an inmate to the women's prison that had a history of raping and murdering women, and that such actions did not require a penis. I pointed out that there very likely are biologic females already in that prison population who are guilty of same. So if the problem is the presence of people guilty of such crimes being housed in the women's prison, then these individuals should be removed too, no?

Yet you responded that biologic women guilty of raping women should still be housed in the women's prison, but transexuals guilty of the same crime should not.

Could you explain why you feel that way?
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Given that I wasn't responding to your post,
I don't see the point of your response to me - other than being an arse.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. look at my face
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. As it happens, I'd already figured that out about you.
But thanks for confirming my opinion!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. taking hormone pills, and taking hair off as he is hanging doesnt make a she.
he raped a woman? and put in women prison.

whatever
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. A convicted rapist, still armed with male genitalia, put into a womens' prison
:crazy:
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Likely she will fair worse in the woman's prison
general population than she was in the men's prison isolation wing.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. No good will come of this. How long before the female prisoners are raped by this person?
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
21. Obviously the judge is in a better position to judge the case than we are
I don't think that a man would undergo a sex change though just to get access to a woman's prision so he can rape women. I'm not sure why moving A to a women's prision would cause her psychological problems since she identifies as a woman unless they believe that the women there won't accept her as a woman and be hostile towards her. She probably suffered harm at the men's prision as a rape target.
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