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Should government push for legislation that would increase the US Supreme Court to 11 justices?

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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:11 AM
Original message
Poll question: Should government push for legislation that would increase the US Supreme Court to 11 justices?
The US Constitution does not limit the number of justices on the bench.

An act of congress, passed by simple majorities and signed into law by the President can increase the court to any size.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. FDR wanted to do that, it did not go over well.
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937.. but it wasn't a total failure.
It is said to have swayed Justice Owen roberts to be more sympathetic toward the New Deal.

Just sayin.
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stenwin77 Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Actually, I think FDR did it
increased the number and then had to take some back off, as it was found to be unconstitutional.

I may be wrong but I think I studied that in history.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. It is perfectly consistent with the Constitution's text.
At no point is the composition of the Supreme Court explicitly specified; Congress, which is assigned general power over the federal judiciary, has traditionally been responsible for controlling the Court's size.

What happened in 1937 is that FDR made his proposal to an overwhelmingly Democratic Congress, and they rejected it. It was a political disaster, which damaged the Democrats in the 1938 elections and was a crucial contributor to the formation of a bipartisan conservative anti-New Deal coalition which had much power in Congress for decades thereafter.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. It would be better to decrease the size of the court to five
If the number of justices can be increased by an act of congress, can it be reduced the same way? And if this is the case who gets to decide which justices have to go?

I have my own ideas about which four justices I'd get rid of.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Actually, that might be unconstitutional.
At least until a Supreme Court Justice dies or resigns.

I don't believe that there is any way, short of impeachment, to remove a sitting supreme court justice.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Situational ethics. I'm all for it NOW with the Dems in controll (supposedly)
Edited on Sat Sep-12-09 11:37 AM by Phoebe Loosinhouse
and I'd love to pack the court with LIBERAL judges that could conceivably roll back some of the recent horror stories (like the Kelo case) and the erosion of civil liberties and the growth of corporatism.

I doubt that will happen. But, if the same suggestion came up in the Bush administration, I would have fought it tooth and nail for obvious reasons.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. yup, and once the precedent is established
when and if the repukes ever capture power again... they would increase it to 17 or whatever, just to pack it their way.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. The conservative wing (Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas) were in the minority in Kelo.
From a certain perspective, it is a straight-up "strict construction" issue: can "public use" be made flexible enough to encompass private enterprise-led economic development?
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. You're right. It goes to the "stopped clock rule"
Edited on Sat Sep-12-09 11:45 AM by Phoebe Loosinhouse
I would have almost never thought that I would ever find myself in agreement with those guys about anything. But in this case I am.
********************************************
I completely agree with Sandra Day O'Connors dissent:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062300783.html
{Stevens's opinion provoked a strongly worded dissent from Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who wrote that the ruling favors the most powerful and influential in society and leaves small property owners little recourse. Now, she wrote, the "specter of condemnation hangs over all property. Nothing is to prevent the State from replacing any Motel 6 with a Ritz-Carlton, any home with a shopping mall, or any farm with a factory."}
*****************************************

The apologists for the ruling say that it leaves the rules for eminent domain under the control of the states who can craft their own laws that specifically forbid eminent domain to be used for the benefit of private developers over the small guy. The problem with that being that state legislatures are EVEN MORE prone to being in the pockets of the bigs guys and the law is subject to the whims of whatever legislature is in session. There is no overarching protection anymore from the federal government. The decision sickens me. The fact that it was reached by the liberals on the court sickens me even more.

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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. It is a bit of a muddle for me.
As far as the question of what "public use" constitutes, I lean toward the conclusion that the Court decided rightly. It is hard for me to see why the mere issue of legal ownership should make a difference: the point (in theory) of building a publicly-owned road is to contribute to the general welfare, and so is the point of some "economic development" program. I'm not sure what principled conceptual distinction could be made here; it is a different case if we are dealing with a matter of transferring one person's property to another for the sake of benefiting the second party (as opposed to the public as a whole), but that was not at issue in Kelo.

Politically, as your objection highlights, it is a more difficult question to call. My general inclination is to not be a very staunch defender of private property rights, against the demands of broad social benefit. It seems to me perverse for society to pay large costs simply at the whim of a few stubborn individuals who are in the way. But there is no question but that the eminent domain power, especially as expanded by Kelo, has been abused against the politically powerless for the benefit of the politically influential.

In any case, we are drifting a bit from the topic. The issue, however, does raise one side-point that is somewgar relevant: the judges we appoint as "liberals" might not always decide the way we want them to. Judges are notorious for breaking with the people who appointed them; it is worth recalling that several of the Court liberals are Republican appointees.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. I always assumed the president could do it on his own.
But s/he, of course, would still have to do the advice and consent thing.

I think when people finally come to realize what the Republican political system really is, and that members of the Party are not quite U.S. citizens, this might be the way to go.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. No. The Supreme Court should not be turned into a political organ of the ruling party.
We may just have to wait this one out; it is the consequence of forty years of conservative backlash against 1960s judicial liberalism, and long-term developments like that tend to be too entrenched to simply do away with.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Too late for that. Reagan and Bush nailed that coffin shut
quite some time ago.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. True, appointing justices is already a politicized process.
But keeping the appointment power limited ensures that the Court can exercise at least some judicial independence: it means that the government cannot simply undo the courts whenever they go against it.
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. This proposal could immediatly undo 40 years of conservative judicial activism.
Thats my question.. Why wait?
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. At the cost of declawing the judicial branch of government, yes.
Edited on Sat Sep-12-09 04:21 PM by Unvanguard
It is not worth it. Indeed, in some sense it would be the ultimate victory for the conservatives, because it would solidify the authority of the state over individual liberty.

The expansion of the rights contained in the Fourteenth Amendment's "liberty" clause, much decried by conservatives, would long have been court-packed away under this scheme.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Voted no
The political capital needed to be expended to do that would sap strength away from areas where we really need it.
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