Either everyone should have government sponsored or subsidized health care, or no one should

Here's my take on the health care issue.

I'm a president of a small local with workers in a barley profitable business (horse racing). Our health and dental is a 50%-50% split. In the last 6 years my premiums have doubled. Our insurer is not a big name. I have to work every day, as my union position only provides a stipend. My health care and dental premiums are $170 a week for me and my wife. The company pays another $170. That's a week, not a month. It amounts to 20% of my gross income, and I'm one of the lucky ones. Some of my members are paying $250 a week for a family and it amounts to 50% of their gross income.

Here's my problem when arguing our position with others. People on Medicare are happy with what they have. They are afraid of change. It's "Socialized" medicine for me to have a government option, but not for them.

People who earn less than I do ($45K a year) are on Medicaid, and they like what they have just fine and couldn't be bothered to enter the fight in our behalf.

Veterans who have VA benefits are just as pleased as they can be and see no reason to alter anything.

Those who are retired from all the various government jobs at the local, county, state and federal levels think what they have is just dandy.

Those with current government jobs have great health care with , generally a 80%-20% split in their favor.

Add those retirees from strong unions like UAW and Teamsters and we are at 60% who don't want change. They're afraid any change could cost them.

What pisses me off is that not a God Damned one of them would have a single benefit if it wasn't for progressive and Democratic support, including organized labor. To think, now, that they think their "friends" are the Conservative Republicans makes me sick. Our biggest mistake, through the years, has been to piece meal this health care initiative.

You want to pass a Government option? Here's my plan. Everyone is in, or everyone is out. And when I say out, that means everyone. Every government employee, every retiree, every Medicare recipient, every Medicaide recipient, every Veteran. Everyone. Up or down. Now let's see where everyone stands.

Defending the idea of government healthcare for some but not all is down right stupid and yet they get away with it. The only explanation I can see for it is the selfishness that has overtaken American society.

In a battle between the selfish and the ignorant and the rest of us, we are losing.

Many people do get it. But far too many don't.

Everyone with public health care or government sponsored (through government jobs) should be with us. How can any of them term this initiative "socialized medicine" with a straight face? Everyone of them has a plan that is paid for by some government money.

Those of us in the private sector are the ones that need this new plan. A plan with a large pool and regulations that trim out the fat and the profit.

It becomes disheartening for me, someone who has worked and marched for these very people to gain their benefits, only to have them turn their backs on me and my members, when it's our turn.

fronts, patient and practitioner.... Sorry to hear your coverage is so expensive. Damn. It really doesn't have to be that way.

did it become UN DEMOCRATIC or NON PROGRESSIVE to be either a vetern, or a government employee, or a retiree of either?

The last great balancing act, to secure social security, came when all federal employees hired post 1982 were placed under social security. That was Regan's gift to federal employees. In addition to breaking the Air Traffic Controllers Union which set the stage for union busting accross the country.

Service in the military brings with it benefits if you survive. Service in the federal or local government brings benefits for the labor provided.

So you want every one in? Fine. Let's restart the DRAFT while we're at it. Nothing like a hot LZ to get the most out of your medical benefits.

Every body in. Problem solved.

It is undemocratic (Large D) and non-progressive to accept those benefits for yourself and deny them to others. That's my point.

Veterans benefits are paid by taxes and run by the Government. I'm for that. Government employee benefits are paid by my taxes. I'm for that. Medicare is paid by my taxes. I'm for that. Medicaid is paid for by my taxes. I'm for that

However,it is hypocritical of anyone on one of these programs to not favor the fact that the government should insure all of us.

I want them to have benefits. I have supported candidates and marched to protect their benefits. This health program now brings me in, and these same folks now call me a Socialist. Not all of them, but enough to make me have to respond.

I'm would gladly pay more in tax if it would provide health insurance for you. I'm in favor of single payer and there should be a buy in provision into Medicare for anyone who needs it.

People tell me I'm a socialist too! I tell them isn't this a great country? That you can stand there an make a statement like that knowing you won't turn down Socialist Security or socialist Medicare when you hit 65. Because all us socialists pay into it. How great is that?

Then they usually say, you're an idiot or worse. That's when they get, but comrade in this country only idiots are allowed to vote, haven't you read the Constitution? That's when their heads usually explode.

surly you get my point. Any service member injured during their time of service should have care for life. I get that exception.

my point is that too many of our friends in all walks of life are already covered by the government so that the minority of us not covered, but paying, have an up-hill battle. If everyone was at risk, the deal would be done.

"Medicare is paid by my taxes" well, it is paid by everybody's taxes, including the taxes paid by those beneficiaries, many of whom continue to pay income taxes until they die. Those beneficiaries are also paying premiums, deductibles, and co-pays, as well as purchasing additional Insurance to make up for what Medicare lacks.
It is paid for by our taxes. According to what you posted on this thread, I have paid more in taxes than you for about 30 years, including those years in which I do not work at all.
I see Glenn Beck, and he's pretty young. Not a despised Senior or Vet. The anti reform movement, if we are going to play that game, is lead by youth and middle aged people. I see young men and women on TV attacking it all the time. The working lobbyists and Insurance shills are all far below retirement age. Why should I not lump Beck's age peers together with him, and set the blame accordingly?
We need Single Payer. Now. But the younger generations are rejecting it!
The fact is, Republicans are rejecting it, and they come in all ages, all sizes. I do not buy your divisions.

I say GOOD. But none of that 60% should call it "Socialism" when Obama wants me to get it, too.

Republicans can't stop it on their own. Seniors are the largest opponent's block, and everyone of them has some sort of government sponsored health care.

I said to a senior who accused Obama of wanting "socialized medicine" how she was insured. She said Medicare. Well, what do you think that is, I replied. Those folks on medicare now are being paid by our contributions. I say good. I believe we should all be on some sort of single payer system. But it gets me mad when the 60% who have a single payer system or a government sponsored plan, don't want the other 40% of us in.

for medical and dental for two people. Wow....

My family is covered in a High Deductible plan ($4300 family deductible) with an HSA that costs a total of about $13K/yr. I pay $2K/yr of this. My employer chips in another $1,300/yr into my HSA. The dental side is really good (nearly full payments for 6 mo. check ups and pretty good negotatiated rates for procedures - never hit my deductible on that side so I don't know what it is). I think the medical side has issues. I can't see, except for physicals, UHC getting nearly $16K before they pay the first dollar. In the three years under the plan I have never got anywhere near my deductible.

I work for a Fortune 50 company who is considered one of the best in the business. My health care plan is not as good as the Union plan for my company. I can see why they will be dragged into any changes.

Let's say we go to a 16% of income plan like the Germans (assume only health side for convenience). I would have to make (assuming I hit the full deductible) $100,000 before myself and my employer would be worse off than what I currently have. Assuming I get the same access and keep my doctors, I am willing to sign on the dotted line right now.

How about an immediate raise of the minimum wage by 10%, and a 8%/8% split German style plan? Professionals and unions get the opportunity to renegotiate their compensation to get a portion back that employers currently pay for their health care. Also lets remove the cap on Social Security contributions. I don't see why those making between about $50K-$105K should carry the system.

During the campaign President Obama was talking about everyone having healthcare like the Senators. Our plan is comparable to the Federal High Deductible plan locally. One thing they could do is make those Federal plans available to private businesses (I see that as part of President Obama's promise). Not a solution but at least a start.

In theory Medicare is supposed to be a societal intergenerational contract. Those folks, as they view it, have earned their right to subsidized health care through their withholdings during their working life. Veterans the same way (they earned their access by serving in the military, and the government had a contract with them that they expect to be honored). Same can be said about Federal workers and those who work for companies that offer bridging to Medicare health care at retirement.

of the dramatic age and medical history of our group. The insurer loses money every year. We only have 40 people in the plan and they are all over 55 and sickly. no one wants us.

We're lucky to get any insurance at all.

You are so right that the piece meal approach has been disastrous for all but the insurance industry and those who are eligible for the government health care benefits. It is no accident that many of those who are opposing reform now are those who already have what we are asking for.

It is such a treat to have some one get the point.

"Though Medicaid is popularly thought of as “health insur-ance for the poor,” it does not comprehensively cover that population. In particular, low-income, non-disabled adults with no children have limited access to MassHealth. In 2002, about one in five Massachusetts adults with incomes below 200 percent of the federal poverty line had no healthcoverage, and that group comprised more than a quarter of the non elderly uninsured."

For an individual, the fed poverty line is 10,800. So a person making 21,601 is not qualified to get it. That individual has about half your income. And yet, they are not 'on Medicaid'. To get Medicaid, they can not just make 'less than 44k' they have to make less than half of that. They have to be nearly destitute, and they also can not have any savings. Assuming that those making 'less than me' get free care for asking is not healthy, nor is it correct.
Which is again why we need Single Payer. Now.