Dear Teabag Movement:

I am writing in hopes that you will actually read this and try to understand where I am coming from.

Our economic situation is bad and it has been for a long time. The gap between the rich and the poor has gotten incredibly large since the late 70s. Real wages have stayed flat. We now need 2 incomes just to survive, if that. We are overworked, underpaid, and unable to get out of a debt cycle. Poverty has grown. Crime has grown. Our standard of living is down--way down as a nation. Immorality and incivility are par for the course. In many ways, our country is gone. And we all want it back.

And yes, some of this has to do with government.

The US Federal government has lain down and died in front of corporate money and concerns. Corporations contribute MORE money to these politicians of BOTH parties than any of us could ever contribute. The big corporations want cheap labor, endless profits and no taxes. The big corporations also want our tax dollars--they want public functions, government functions, OUR functions to be privatized. Privatized means that they want to buy our public institutions--our schools, our roads, our military functions, and all infrastructure we have built with our tax dollars--for pennies on the dollar. To do this, they need Government to turn its back on the people it is supposed to represent and to starve the public institutions until they become so bad, so hopeless, so broke, that the corporations can buy them for cheap.

And when that doesn't work, the big investors, the banks, the big money men that we are supposed to admire--these guys create derivatives and other "exotic" investments (bets, really) that are intended to crash the market and transfer billions and billions in OUR taxpayer dollars to THEM, the money guys. They can put this money in the Caymans or somewhere else offshore. Remember that OJ Simpson hid his money from the Goldman family in the Caymans. Criminals do.

See the bailout from last year? TARP? Where did the US government get the money to bail out the banks? FROM the banks. Seriously. Our government went INTO DEBT--our debt--to those same banks that we are bailing out. We are financing our own indebtedness. Thank you US government!

So you can see that government IS the problem, just not in the way that you think it is. We're not headed towards socialism; we are headed towards corporate control of all public functions. We are headed toward increased poverty. We are headed towards unrest. All because the Federal government has forgotten that it owes the PEOPLE, not the large corporations. It owes those of us who work hard, who pay taxes, who teach, who heal, who run our own businesses. It's US the Government owes, not Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Halliburton, McDonalds. It's US. Not THEM.

So complain against the government. Complain about the "bailout" that has financed our own indebtedness. Complain that the government has forgotten the people the Constitution says it is supposed to represent. Complain that the government gives everything to corporations and that this is destroying our way of life.

But remember: reducing the government's responsibility towards the people and handing the reins of government over to multinational corporations will make us ALL poor and oppressed. We need to get government to do its job, NOT reduce its size; not give away our assets that we paid for; not make government so ineffective that we are at the total mercy of corporations. The multinational corporations do not care about our best interest. They only care about profits.

Some your words even have four whole syllables. That's crazy.

Misguided, but intelligent. I am hoping to reach them.

if you're "in the movement" it would show you're extremely susceptible not just to propaganda but propaganda that is not very well done and in this day and age is VERY easily disprovable - that indicates, uh, people who are NOT intelligent

watching from a distance.

E over I....whatever I there is.

We'll see if it helps

:kick:

Sined,

Teh Teebagurs.

and the tea baggers aren't here at DU. I hope you find a better place to publish it.

How far should change go?
Decades ago I was a very active NYC Liberal with strong Socialist leanings.
Now I am conservative, and still maintain the altruistic principles of then, but in a different way now that I feel is better.

This is not a discussion of Socialism vs Capitalism.
It is a discussion of the extremes of anarchy vs totalitarian oligarchy.
That is, no government control vs total government control.

It too many ways today we are trapped between competing oligarchies of the left and right.
Both, in my view, seek wealth and power for their elites.

At this point in time, we are somewhat in the middle, with a Constitutionally limited government that should be representative,
but in too many ways is the best government money can buy.

There is too much corruption, and it effects both political directions.
At wheeling-dealing Lehman Bros, one of the laid-off traders announced that 70% of his colleagues were liberal democrats that believed in capitalism.
This board has noted many instances of corruption in the other political direction.

At present we are trending in a direction of more government control, some of which is needed.

How far should we go?
Where should we stop?

You are a deluded fool.

Why are you getting off the subject?

I said nothing about Conservatives and less government.
The subject is oligarchical totalitarianism vs anarchy.
That is, total government control vs no government control.

Oligarchical totalitarianism has been and is achieved from both political ends.

I assume that you would resist conservative oligarchical totalitarianism.

At what point would you resist socialist oligarchical totalitarianism?

The question plays into the economic form you would prefer as optimum, as well
as the level of individual freedoms you would consider as optimum.

PS: Ridicule is a Saul Alinski tactic that is becoming less effective.

It's called extreme concentration of wealth in a few families.



Google the "L-curve" for sources.

Obama's progressive policies slow down the concentration of wealth, if not reverse it.

Your "conservative" policies accelerate it.

If you can't see the difference, it's your problem.

I don't argue with idiots, I ridicule them.

You persist in ignoring the actual subject, and continue to pursue your diversionary subject, which of course allows you free rein to
use ridicule and insults.

You must have received a good grade when you took Rules for Radicals 101.

Your replies are meaningless, as are your insults and ridicule.

Try sticking to the actual subject.

Don't look for reply in kind.
It isn't going to happen.

I will pose a question about "condentration of wealth", however.

Is the George Soros family a concentration of wealth?
Ditto for Barbra Streisand and Roger Moore?
Aren't they wealthy?

Is there such a thing as a Progressive concentration of wealth?

Just asking.

When you say:
"Obama's progressive policies slow down the concentration of wealth, if not reverse it."
what do you mean?

I would certainly agree about exploitive wealth, which should be stopped, not slowed down.
I do not purchase California produced grapes for that reason.

Can you describe an optimum end result to the progressive policies that you describe?

Please do not go into a long dialectic, quoting philosophy from many authors and sources.
Been there, read that.

Try to give a "progressive executive summary".

PS:
The L-Curve image is a distortion of the true curve which is asymptotic.
I would agree the any income derived by exploitive, unethical or dishonest means should not be allowed.
This would mean that a number of Lehman Bros. traders who were Liberal democrats would be quite a bit poorer.

There is the matter of accumulation of wealth through meritocratic means, (i.e. a better product or service
created or sold by ethical and honest means).
If the excess income is used to help others, is that an unacceptable concentration of income?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

your opinion?

I agree that "Teabagger" is an unfortunate term, I always wondered why your movement chose it. What is the correct term for your movement? Please supply it so that the OP and other attempts at reasoning with your movement will be addressed properly.

I find it unfortunate that you feel medicare and social security has no business taking care of the elder members of your family and that we should abolish the fire Departments and roads as the business of the government. It would be a rather nasty and hard to navigate country that you envision.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

seriously out of your depth. Why would you come on a site named "Democratic Underground," to tell us that we don't meet your standards of discourse, political views, or moral values -- unless it is to be disruptive, or to pick a fight? As a middle-of-the-road, non-political, wannabe anarchist, don't you guys have your own Internet meeting places?

Oh, and before SS and Medicare, many "old people" just died early to avoid the rush. Did it ever dawn on you that the American expected lifespan has greatly increased in the past 60-70 years because of SS and Medicare? No, I suppose not, what with your busy charity schedule and all. And all of the other Democratic-inspired social advances in Civil Rights, Labor Rights, Education, etc. were a result of right-wing family charity as well, I suppose.

Oh, and your "revisionist political philosophy" is very close to Lyndon LaRouche's conspiracy theory craziness, while your anti-government stance pretty much sums up Ron Paul's Libertarian views. You are a certifiable right-winger, and a tin-foil hat aficionado.

but if you want to live in a civilization... if you to live in a place where people have schools, roads, bridges, and yes, health insurance... then you have to a government of some sort. you have to, at some point, grow up and understand that.

I am not an anarchist. I recognize the vital need for government among civilized men. Obviously, we disagree on what the role of that government should be. I believe the Constitution lays out the ideal structure for a free society. But we do not follow that document anymore. The government is operating outside the bounds of it's charter. The Constitution was the charter and they have taken more power than was granted to them. Do you not see a problem there? Yes or no? Is it the government's responsibility to make sure that my butt is wiped on a daily basis? Where does it end?

So far, neither response to my first post has addressed any of the points that I brought up regarding the legal and historical aspects, but both posts have accused me of being an anarchist lunatic. This is great stuff!

That's great, too, to put LaRouche and Ron Paul in the same sentence! Next time see if you can mash-up people with even more extreme opposing viewpoints...

The primary objective of our federal government, according to the founders, was to protect our individual liberties. If you disagree, take it up with them, not me.

And the World Bank?

How does "racist cock-lint" grab ya?

did I attack you? please point to the comment that I made that you found to be racist.... By the way, what color am I and who is it that I'm racist against (according to you)?

Sorry if it's a "sexual" term but they picked it. Also they are the ones wanting to overthrow a democratically elected government, which makes them at best idiots and at worst terrorists. You seem to think that the baggers have a point. Well, they need to make it a little more clear. Starting with learning how to spell. The problem with dealing with the "teabaggers" is they have nothing. They have to make shit up to bitch about because they can't complain about the black man in the white house.

You see so far all the teabaggers have done is complain about things Obama is "going to do". Well when he actually does them, then I might have time for their particular brand of foolishness. I watched with baited breath to see Obama "indoctrinate" our children. Well according to the teabaggers he changed his speech after they complained. Well I call bullshit. You can't make up a lie to cover the fact that your first lie didn't come true. You can come in here to try to defend your position but if you lie to do it then you are useless. So until we become a socialist nation, or until Obama starts knocking on my door to take my guns, or until Obama starts killing off granny's please try to complain about something that has actually happened and not something in that little Glen Beck right wing fantasy floating around in your head.

Oh and next time try coming up with a better name than teabaggers, it just made you look even more foolish.

for the record. I'm not so sure that you have actually been paying attention to anything that has been going on around you. The tea party movement started last year, surrounding the bailouts, while Bush was in office (before the election even happened). I don't think that anybody really cares whether the President is white or black, I know I don't.

I was not aware that the tea party protesters want to overthrow the government. That would be treason and sedition.

I despise Glen Beck.

The protesters do have a point, you have not seen it yet. If 90% of the country was opposed to the bailouts in September/October 2008, then how did the House of Representatives manage to pass it? They have an obligation to represent their constituents (the Senate does not).

I AM complaining about something that HAS happened. Our banking system was hijacked and through it, our system of government was turned from a republic into a democracy. Treason was committed and is being committed still. But since noone is coming to your door to take your guns or kill your granny, you're A-OK with it. Well, if they ever do come, it will be too late to do anything about it then. Again, study the history of empires and perhaps you will gain a bigger picture view of our current situation.

Yeah, the teabag leaders, what's your point?


This thread will link you to a site where you can sign up with other teabaggers to overthrow the government. Better hurry before the Secret Service sees it ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6542588


I have been paying plenty of attention. If I weren't I'd probably be a teabagger myself. It seems to be a requirement.

You are standing up for the wrong side friend. Were you up W's ass about the banks, the economy, the 4 x increase in the size of the government, the trillion dollar deficit increase, the lies, the illegal war, the signing statements? The misappropriation of 11 million dollars in Iraq, the drowning of a U.S. city, the political firings of Justice Dept attorneys, the appointing of a horse lawyer to the head of FEMA, the outing of a CIA agent, Torture, Abu Grahib?

I could list illegal and immoral shit from the Bush administration all day, yet the people out protesting now were cheering all those things for 8 years. I find it hard to believe they all of a sudden, after 8 years of the worst presidency in history, developed a conscience. You see to a liberal it's not only the fact that the teabaggers can't spell, that they keep showing that stupid fake birth certificate, that they are protesting cheaper better health care, that they are acting against their own best interests, a liberal can put up with all that crap. What we can't fucking stand is the hypocrisy.

I seem to remember the talking point "It's un-American to protest a president in a time of war" going around for quite awhile. Funny, I don't hear it now. Also, no matter how stupid Bush was, no matter how much he lied, Democrats managed to get through his speeches without screaming out "You're a liar" to the President of the United States like he was a ref who made a bad call at a fucking football game.

I applaud you for this, I just had a conversation the other day with a friend about this - how the right is angry over made up conspiracies and how the left is blind (in many cases) to the continuation of the real problems under DLC rule.

Divide and enslave has worked very well for the oligarchy, they use our hope against us while using the anger of the right against them. Only truth can save us now, I am glad you are addressing at least one side of a problem that can only be countered with the truth of the corporate takeover of the nation.

Perhaps you can compose a similar open letter to the enablers of the takeover that use our side to further their agenda under a banner of false hope to hide the continuation of the same policies that have brought us to this sorry state.

It will not be well received here but truth does have it's own unique power does it not?

Thank you.

And everything has a time.

I have been able to reason with some of the people I work with with that mindset, at least to a degree. I will start there (we are on friendly terms) and see if I can get them to send it out on their email lists.

:kick:

I've seen the Kenyan birth certificate!!!

n/t