Schoolchildren vote to send Marcus the lamb to slaughter

:popcorn:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090914/od_nm/us_sheep_odd


REUTERS/Susana … 2 hrs 5 mins ago

LONDON (Reuters) – A group of schoolchildren who reared a lamb from birth and named it Marcus has overridden objections by parents and rights activists and voted to send the animal to slaughter.

Marcus the six-month-old lamb has now been culled, the head teacher of the primary school in Kent confirmed on Monday, after the school's council -- a 14-member group of children aged 6 to 11 -- voted 13-1 to have him killed.

The decision has provoked fury among animal-loving celebrities, animal and human rights campaigners and the parents of some of the children, and led to threats against Lydd primary school and its teachers, according to a member of staff.

Around 250 children at the school take part in a program designed to teach them about rearing and breeding animals.

The educational farm was started this year, with Marcus being hand-fed by the children. The children also look after ducks, chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs.

The intention had been to buy pigs with the money raised from slaughtering Marcus, but those plans have been put on hold following the furor created by the lamb's culling. The school said the program may now have to be stopped.

"It's all up in the air," said a member of staff. "There's been so much pressure on us as a result of all this."

...

In so many ways.

The kids recognize that, even if the parents don't. Ain't nuttin like mutton.

Now I'm hungry. :popcorn:

Nobody ever kills animals.

where that bit of meat on their plate really comes from.

But I think the only proper response would have been to have the children have to slaughter the lamb themselves once they voted for it to be done. Perhaps they would then not be so quick to send anything to slaughter and would understand that their actions have consequences.

A perfectly-good trade, after all.

I don't object to animals being killed for food by trained professionals who do it humanely; I have severe reservations about allowing a lamb to be killed by a committee of fourteen schoolkids.

Possibly allow them to watch the lamb being slaughtered (forcing them to watch it would be barbaric), but don't let them do it themselves.

to conservative/regressive policies.

Make the little carnivores get their hands bloody. Make them hear the squeals of the lamb as it is gutted. Make them look into its eyes as the spark of life dies.

There's a brilliant scene involving a deer, a bunch of macho jocks/hunters, and what you allude to - the animal's death throes.

That scene is hard for an animal lover to bear but it makes it's point - hard.

then why do you find less vegetarianism among rural kids (who know where their meat comes from) than from suburban kids who are always insulated from this?

Veg*nism is more common among educated people who have spent time on farms than it is for any other population segment that hasn't spent time on a farm or in a slaughterhouse.

Note that slaughterhouses tend to have much higher than average percentages of undocumented workers, even in economically-depressed areas with low educational achievement. Imagine that, people who are desperate for work and lack the skills to obtain most other jobs still don't want to work in an abattoir, don't want to be confronted by where their meat comes from.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that more than half the farm kids I know and most of the former slaughterhouse workers I know...are now vegetarians. I wonder why?

Thanks for playing...here's a parting gift:
http://www.wingyipstore.co.uk/pictures/content1441/beancurd+tofu+soft+and+firm.jpg
It's better than bad, it's good. It's Tofu!!!!

All the rural kids I knew out on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State were meat eaters, and many were 4H'ers (who raised animals as part of their projects) who I worked with when I ran the kitchen at the 4H booth at the county fair. They sure didn't turn down the hamburgers we served. Of course, there's that "educated" people thing, are we talking about farmers with PhD's, or do you mean educated as "enlightened like I am"?

Maybe you're right about tofu farms. Never touch the stuff, myself.

Whether were talking about college, trade school, etc. And I was actually referencing sociological data on frequency of veganism.

That is...veg*n diet is more common among people with college degrees who spent time on a farm.

Let's not let the wingnuts hear that, OK? They'll probably make that one of their talking points when they get to President Obama's mind control camps!

I'd sure like to see where you got that statistic. I may have to hunt up a few on the subject myself.

Tell me, why do you use the word "veg*n"? It reminds me of the way Jewish people refer to their deity, because an all-powerful one must find vowels offensive, or something...

But your assessment of my anecdotal evidence being anecdotal is just your opinion, man.

:hide:

My point is, we all tend to hang around people like ourselves, and we start concluding that "most people think like me."

The notion of farm raised vegans is laughable. You're reading too much propaganda.

There's nothing wrong with being a vegan, unless one thinks it is a moral choice, or that it is superior to being an omnivore.

Veg*nism is more common among educated people who have spent time on farms than it is for any other population segment that hasn't spent time on a farm or in a slaughterhouse.

Back that one up, please.

I say that as someone who as a kid looked into those eye as the goat died, and the turkey, squirrels, chickens, birds..

If your going to eat an animal, you should know what it means to do so.

It's not pleasant, but it's what every carnivore does. Wolves, bears, cats of all sizes...

Brings reality into every piece of meat you ever eat.

and no squeals...

Jesus age, people don't even understand how our modern farming works.

it seems they get the concept of humane slaughtering with any Friday the 13th movie confused.

I find the ones that scream and yell about the "inhumane" slaughtering, don't have the slightest idea or concept of what they are talking about.

If so, you're doing it wrong.

(referencing your reply to Nadin, above)

Just as an aside, My father was stationed in Alice Springs, Australia. I worked in the town Abattoir for a time and slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep, meaning I did the killing. Never heard one squeal. Not once.

I'm curious if there are any other DU'rs that have worked in a slaughterhouse.

:rofl:

the only thing that comes to mind when I think of squealing is that infamous scene from the movie, "Deliverance".

ye-ow!

cow, pig and lamb butchered by independent butchers.

I eat meat and I take responsibility as a carnivore to know where my meat comes from and how it gives it's life so I can eat.

Would I kill it myself? sure, if only I were trained to do so, but butchering an animal is a fine art.

And in my opinion, the independent butchers are far more human than any of the factory farm slaughter houses.

I do believe that these children who voted to have this lamb slaughtered should view the process and have it explained to them by an adult.

Knowing where your food comes from is something everyone should know.

so many people go out and eat a steak or hamburger and haven't the slightest idea how that meat got to their plate.

I do not take my food lightly and I do revere the animals that provide the meat I eat.

distinction that even carnivores should be able to make.

Maybe they should have to participate in some of the butchery after the kill, as another poster pointed out would otherwise be inhumane (however humane you think slaughtering livestock is.)

If they can decide to send it off to slaughter, they can see what slaughter is.

I wonder if the goat got to vote...

There was a posting here last week of a kid denied his junk food for 3 hours and he could have slaughtered the lamb and finished off a leg before the barbecue was ready.

my own mother told me that she used to kill chickens for dinner later that night.

that is how it works on a farm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213224/Marcus-sheep-dead-Parents-fail-minute-stay-execution.html

They are using the money to buy piglets.




Marcus: Appeals by parents and pupils could not save the doomed lamb




Can't sleep: Adele Grant, with her daughter Liberty, 10, is devastated by the slaughter of the school sheep

Here in the US, we have mobile slaughter trucks that will visit your farm and kill your farm animal and butcher it on the spot.

Get one to visit the school with the lamb and have all the children attend.

If they can vote to have it done, they can watch it being done.

I've killed the Thanksgiving turkey as a kid, and a goat as well as numerous other animals.

Kids should know about exactly where their food comes from.

Kids of 100 years ago certainly did.

we understood from a young age that the cute whatever animal was going to be dinner one day

yech.


:puke:

and it takes a really long time.

:rofl:

Sounds like the remake of "12 Angry Men."

Maybe a movie should be made and titled "14 Angry Schoolkids"

I wonder who would play the role of Henry Fonda?

She would have had much more lamb, but she had to share it with 13 others. ;-)

... possibly due to this: "reared a lamb from birth."

It just has that heartless Voted Off The Island feel to it ... by those who enjoy deciding, if you follow.

Which a lot of people object to as well.

I do it quite often, as do most people.

"This song is ass."

"Nope, it's pretty good."

I never knew.

If you are one of them, then it's just a matter of time before your ilk comes around.

Is that what the other person was implying? Or...a lamb? Or...just annoying? I'm so confused.

Just annoying most likely...

check out my profile. that alone has gotten me blocked by people on DU.

Cheers! And keep your opinions coming. :)

Sometimes I wonder how many more people I could piss off if I really tried.

anyway, some of us are lucky...we just naturally piss people off with no apparent effort whatsoever...

:7

Their ilk probably got banned over there.

Check under your desk, though. If you do have ilk, it sometimes accumulates there with the dust bunnies.

No realli!

It's either how the article was written or what the kids were told would be the consequence.

You can't eat anything with a name. Period.

farm.

They had a pig names Yolanda.

Every year, it was always Yolanda.

This same friend hates vanilla. Since there was such scarce food, vanilla was the only flavoring for dessert around. So it got old, fast.

Same friend also says that immediately after the war in Germany, his parents would read a cookbook to each other as they yearned for more food.

But every year, the pig was named Yolanda.

I'll thank you to not dictate to me who I can eat.
:D

my two tame geese produce each spring.

This is an educational farm program. It would be kind of silly to teach the kids all the things necessary to raise an animal in a farm setting and then leave out the part about WHY they are raising the animal. I would even offer that maybe the kids should watch or take part in the slaughter of their lamb. I think it is a good idea to let kids know how things work in society. It certainly prepares them to make more informed decisions in theh course of their lives.

"Marcus will forever live on as a delicious part of our memories..."

Wouldn’t you say there’s a little Uter in all of us? Ha ha! In fact, you could say we just *ate* Uter and he’s in our stomachs right now! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-haaaa! Wait. Scratch that last one.

little pigs very appealing.

now that the kids are bored with the lamb--LET'S GET THE PIGS!

they don't get it.

and they might really feel like shit when they look back and think "wow--i voted to actually kill that lamb"

regardless whether the lamb is killed or not--they might look back on it and feel bad they voted to kill.

i know i would have felt like shit--and then i'd wonder why the fuck they let children make that decision.

why not just have a fucking cupcake fundraiser for little pigs?

If they want to keep it, they have to help clean it. All part of the deal.

I'm with Temple Grandin on this. We raise animals, we animals. It's our job to raise them in humane conditions and slaughter them humanely.

"Oh foolish people who feign to feel what other men have suffered.
You, not I, are the indifferent killers of the poet's dreams.
How could I destroy the pain wrought children of my fancy?
What would my life have been without their faithful and harmonious company?
Unicorn, My youthful foolish Unicorn, please do not hide, come close to me.
And you, my Gorgon, behind whose splendor I hid the doubts of my midday, you, too, stand by.
And here is my shy and lonely Manticore, who gracefully leads me to my grave.
Farewell. Equally well I loved you all.
Although the world may not suspect it,
all remains intact within the Poet's heart.
Farewell. Not even death I fear as in your arms I die. Farewell."

They will grow tired of the pig, too.

I think what is sad is that it was a 13-1 vote from a group of children ranging from age 6 to 11. The lamb having been named and raised from birth I would have expected a more split vote. I get the whole meat eating thing, but there is something that is disturbing about this. I could possibly understand if these were family farm kids, but generally young child have more of a sense of compassion about animals they have raised from babies.

The lamb was used for a program about rearing and breeding animals. This seems like one the natural conclusions of such program. Lambs are used for wool and food.

I dunno. I spent a summer in Navajo country as one of a group of teens, and I remember being very embarrassed by my some of my friends' reactions when our hosts slaughtered a lamb for us.

It's not that the animal was or will be slaughtered, but the idea of putting the decision to a vote. If it were decided (even by vote) before they got this lamb, that would not have been a problem either. It's not a fair way of treating the emotions of a minority of students (the one no voter, and presumably some of the students who were not in the voting council). They put the children in a position of deciding after forming an emotional attachment under false pretenses.

He's a local preacher of the Prosperity Gospel strand, trying to go uptown and big time.



I don't think he should be sent out to be slaughtered, but a good spanking might do him good.

societies over reactive side comes out and is 'horrified, oh what the fuck ever! :eyes:
They should have sent the council to the slaughter house, so they could learn what their decision means first hand.

I'm also a P/T farm kid...spent every summer from 5 to 17 on my grandparent's farm. It's why I'm an animal person.

where "meat" is just stuff that's very cleanly wrapped in saran wrap and styrofoam, sitting in the grocery shelves, or maybe from a so-called 'department' handed over by a butcher who hasn't had blood on his apron since the 1980s.

Hell, I'm a meat eater. I recognize where food comes from, and I think it's important for these kids to understand that every animal is a "marcus". That being said, I find it weird that they voted to have him slaughtered. Damn, when I was a kid that age, I used to name goddamn bugs and then be upset when they died or ran away. There is no way I would have been cool with having an animal I raised slaughtered, rational or not. Are these kids farm kids....cuz then it would make sense. But city kids?

raised from birth to be killed. Or any animal for that matter.

maybe be more involved with animal husbandry.

I hope the kids are involved with the butchering and eating parts also, to round it all out. Sounds like a good program.

Sarah Palin's right there with you on that.

thinking food comes from supermarket wrapped in plastic. Being more involved, esp taking a class in it, would give more people more respect for the whole process. My kid loved fishing at a very young age and yes, killed fish. woe.

Take your snide insults elsewhere kiddo

There is nothing wrong with being more involved and understanding where one's food really comes from but 6 year olds do not have to learn how to gut a sheep. You really think that's right?

As far as the Palin comparison, she was derided here for a picture of her over a moose kill with one of her kids. I can assume you were supportive of her in that life lesson?

The kids would be involved in the killing and butchering of the lamb, watching a professional do it. Nowhere have I said 6 yr olds should be gutting the sheep itself.

If Palin were to honestly kill a moose, butcher it and eat it, I would not have a problem with that.

I don't know why I thought "I hope the kids are involved with the butchering" meant you thought the kids would be involved butchering the lamb.

He was 2, maybe 3. I took a wrong turn and had to turn around; unfortunately, there were animals in the parking lot where I turned around. A cow came up to the window.

Mrs. Igel: "Look, Igling! A cow!"

Igeling: "YUM!"

Mr. Igel: "Good boy!"

At 3, he was under no illusion that farm animals weren't for meat. Pets are pets; food animals raised as food animals are food. It helped that we didn't refer to beef as "beef" but as "cow". He learned the Norman-French food terms later.

At the same time, he'd say, "yuck!" when confronted with pig. We don't eat pig or shellfish, so when others are salivating his face is all crinkled up in revulsion.

we're fucked.

:P

Also, no animals in the wild are ever hand-fed by humans.

my chicken grew up in far worst conditions than this lamb... due to industrial chicken farms.

The meat we had today, when it walked, if it walked, did such in conditions that would horrify a lot of you.

Let me tell you a story... I grew up in a city, but my mom had chickens when growing up. THey were for eggs and sometimes for dinner... so yes daisy ended up in the dinner plate. That is life.

My dad, same story.

So this but what about the children? Let the children realize what is the true web of life.

This reminds me of the horror of horrors, we were taken to a milk farm to watch where our milk came from. I was what five? Well one of the cows happened to give birth in front of us impressionable kids... some of the parents were horrified that their little darlings saw THAT... imagine, the miracle of life, that is seeing a life starting.

So yes, good for the school...

And when the lamb faces the slaughter, modern techniques will make it fairly painless if they do it right. Perhaps the kids should watch that, at least the older ones...

learn that all meat does not magically appear in styrofoam trays in the meat section of the supermarket.

Farm kids know this. It's time for city dwellers to get clued in as well.

lamb.

""The decision to send the wether lamb for meat, which has the support of the school council and staff, the governing body and the majority of parents, has now been carried out," she said. Ms Chapman added that the children have had it explained to them ever since the school began rearing pets that animals such as Marcus are eaten as meat. "When we started the farm in spring 2009, the aim was to educate the children in all aspects of farming life and everything that implies," she said.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/marcus-auctioned-to-pay-for-more-farm-animals-1787332.html

Obviously the teacher started a coven. :wow:

This is not something tragic. It's life. And if these kids want to experience the full range or raising and harvesting animals, so what? This idea that killing animals is inherently horrific is downright silly.

"Children Of The Damned"

Imho Lamb and sheep should only be used for Wool and occasionally meat.
Mind you i do enjoy Lamb, mmmmmmm

But in this exercise I would have probably pushed for the piglings or chickens for meat. The Lamb would have been better used for it's wool, and company.

unless it was a real bastard of a lamb, and attacked the kids a lot... mmmm blood of the bastard lambling...(ok that was a bit much even for me)

but that's my two, brutally evil meat-eating two cents.

Not that there's anything wrong with it.

so they weren't traumatized by the experience or taught that they should be. It was apparently a unit on farming and animal husbandry...These kids now know where food comes from.

the lamb I mean.

Today I trade my last unwise
ewe lamb, the one who won't leave home,
for two cords of stove-length oak
and wait on the old enclosed
front porch to make the swap.
November sun revives the thick
trapped buzz of horseflies. The siren
for noon and forest fires blows
a sliding scale. The lamb of woe
looks in at me through glass
on the last day of her life.

Geranium scraps from the window box
trail from her mouth, burdock burrs
are stickered to her fleece like chicken pox,
under her tail stub, permanent smears.

I think of how it goes on,
this dark particular bent of our hungers:
the way wire eats into a tree
year after year on the pasture's perimeter,
keeping the milk cows penned
until they grow too old to freshen;
of how the last wild horses were scoured
from canyons in Idaho, roped, thrown,
their nostrils twisted shut with wire
to keep them down, the mares aborting,
days later, all of them carted to town.

I think of how it will be
in January, nights so cold
the pond ice cracks like target practice,
daylight glue-colored, sleet falling,
my yellow horse slick with the ball-bearing
sleet, raising up from his dingy browse
out of boredom and habit
to strip bark from the fenced-in trees;
of February, month of the hard palate,
the split wood running out,
worms working in the flour bin.

The lamb, whose time has come, goes off
in the cab of the dump truck, tied to the seat
with baling twine, durable enough
to bear her to the knife and rafter.

O lambs! The whole wolf-world sits down to eat
and cleans its muzzle after.