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steven johnson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 08:49 PM
Original message
Afghan rift bared as US military chief challenges Barack Obama
"All warfare is based on deception." (Sun Tzu)\
-- we have published our war plans widely and so we have no element of surprise.

"When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped." (Sun Tzu)
-- long wars are bad wars.

When a chieftain is fighting in his own territory, it is dispersive ground....On dispersive ground, therefore, fight not. (Sun Tzu)
-- we are fighting on the enemies territory.

Some ground should not be contested if it will be hard to defend once you gain it.(Sun Tzu)
-- we can be attacked without warning; two-thirds of the afghanis think it is ok to kill Americans.

"The art of war is governed by five constant factors, all of which need to be taken into account. They are: the Moral Influence; Heaven; Earth; the Commander; Method and discipline."
-- we have lost the Moral Influence(Tao); a majority of Americans now oppose our war in Afghanistan
-- the moral imperatives: nation building, women's rights, supporting the legitimate government, fighting the terrortist there, teaching the terrorists a lesson -- none of these have the compelling force they once had after 9/11.

I'm not necessarily calling for a pull out from Afghanistan. I think we'd better be smarter or get the hell out.

Lyndon Johnson admitted in private that he had doubts about the ability to win in Viet Nam. But he refused to have the label of 'loser' hung around his neck.


"As he remarked to McNamara:

"I don’t think anything is going to be as bad as losing, and I don’t see any way of winning (February 26, 1965).

"To Senator Richard Russell:

"A man can fight if he can see the daylight down the road somewhere. But there ain’t no daylight in Vietnam. There’s not a bit (March 6, 1965).

"And there is an unforgettable exchange with Senator Mike Mansfield:

"LBJ: What do we do about request for more men? . . .

"Mansfield: s you said earlier, it’s 75,000, then it’s 150,000, then it’s 300,000. Where do you stop?

"LBJ: You don’t. . . . To me, it’s shaping up like this, Mike--you either get out or you get in. . . . We’ve tried all the neutral things. And we think they are winning. Now if we think they’re winning, you can imagine what they think (June 8, 1965).

http://www.aei.org/article/15696">Reaching for Glory




From The Times September 16, 2009

Deep rifts at the heart of Western policy on Afghanistan were laid bare yesterday when President Obama’s top military adviser challenged him to authorise a troop surge that his most senior congressional allies have said they will oppose.

Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that more US troops as well as a rapid increase in the size and capability of the Afghan army were needed to carry out the President’s own strategy for prevailing in Afghanistan as the eighth anniversary of a debilitating war approaches.

Democratic senators lined up yesterday to reject calls for more US combat troops. Senator Russ Feingold warned that he and “a growing chorus” of Democrats would refuse to back sending more reinforcements.

When Admiral Mullen revealed that General Lamb had initiated an effort to win over Taleban fighters, he was asked why it had taken so long. “It has not been an area of focus,” he said.


Afghan rift bared as US military chief challenges Barack Obama
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. What do we do if the surge doesn't work? Throw more troops at the problem?
This is starting to sound awfully familiar.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If they break out the buckets of cash like they did in Iraq it will work.
And korpmedia will compliantly pretend that it is a great victory. I'm all for it. Bribe enough people to declare peace and get the fuck out.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You know, that's probably the only real option left that still works.
Because half the time the guerrillas aren't even Taliban guys. They're guys working for the local warlord--excuse me, tribal chief--who runs the area and wants a seat at the table of power or control over a local trade route.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The Taliban is slowly suffocating itself on its fundamentalist
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 10:05 PM by Bobbieo
beliefs. If they keep up their attitudes about women and children and killing them off - pretty soon no more Taliban!

The latest wrinkle - polio is on the rise in ME nations and the Taliban believe that Polio Vaccine is a Western plot to poison Afghan children.
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