Question: When I post ANYTHING about how the Iraqi people are suffering,

why does the whole of DU not care, or react?
I post them a lot, and everyone ignores them. WHY? I think we should pay a lot of attention to this, because we are a part of this whether we like it or not. Maybe we could even try to change what's going on.

Do you realize what is being done in our name? :cry:

Children of U.S. occupation

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5285§ionid=351...

Children of U.S. occupation
Sat, 07 Apr 2007 20:36:54
Hassan Tavakoli, Press TV, Tehran

What has Bush brought for the children of Iraq?

Four years of occupation in Iraq has not only crippled the country but also set the scene for what we can see today of innocent children scavenging in garbage dumps to find something with what they could pass the day.

The appalling condition of many Iraqi children victimized by the U.S. occupation has become too emotive an issue for even American mass media to ignore.

Recently a report by CNN showed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children in rags and no longer attending school. Iraqi hospitals are also too strapped with casualties to deal with mental toll on children. According to Iraqi health officials, bomb blasts, gunfire, and killings of family members have plagued Iraq and unfortunately it is the Iraqi children that suffer the most.

The U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has plunged Iraq into a complete quagmire and causing widespread poverty. Iraqi children are most vulnerable, and in Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, children can often be seen rummaging through heaps of rubbish, trying to find scraps of food just to survive.

It is difficult to give an exact figure of how much the war and violence has affected the lives of Iraqi children.

The humanitarian organization Save the Children, in a report last year about children in conflict zones, estimated that 818,000 Iraqi children, ranging from 6 to 11 in age, were not in school. That's roughly one in every five Iraqi children in that age group.

more...

Sorry for missing your threads...That is indeed heartbreaking :(.

Thanks a lot for posting these-I will keep an eye out for your threads.
A :toast: to you for keeping it real.

I get exactly the same reaction when I post about the fact that the USA now has the highest incarceration rate on the planet.

Nobody cares.

When I proved the other day that Democratic politicians almost to a man are supporting the war on cannabis based entirely on fantasy, I got very few replies.

but is also loudly calling the drug war what it is...A TOTAL SHAMEFUl AND CRUEL SHAM and that man is DENNIS KUCINICH...and he seems to get no support and the pug owned media purposely pretend he doesn't exist. He is the good ol' boys of both parties, the msm, and big,big's worst nightmare...AND THAT IS THE REASON WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM.

Dennis Kucinich is a US Represenative, not a Senator, but that aside, I agree with everything you have said.
There is only one REAL Democrat running for President: Dennis Kucinich.
I can't understand how anyone who belongs to a liberal discussion board could possible support anyone else.

thanks for the correction

I'd be glad to offer my support any time you post against incarceration and the Stupid War on Some Drugs

Why is DU brain dead when it comes to what's going on with the Iraqis? NO ONE says or cares about them, it's all about US. :puke:

Though, like you, I was surprised to find the same attitude, here, at DU.
I can't see any good reason or excuse. Thank you for posting.

DUers don't care. I can only judge DU by my own habits here but I would say that the majority of DUers have signed up for the type of information you are despairing is not read. I know I frequently look and read but have a greater tendency to move on to things I can do something about... and or something I can share or laugh with others about. Otherwise I get mired in the great deal I can do nothing about or can effect only peripherally ... e.g. Iraqi casualties, Darfur casualties, children anywhere being hurt, etc.

Please remember the news overall, the war, the economy, the state of our country and its thread bare rule of law, the loss of our media, ON TOP OF whatever personal trauma that is happening for individual DUers - is more than a tad overwhelming for most. Or at least for me. I don't think I am the only one picking and choosing what I read here just so I can keep moving forward and doing what I can. Some days are better than others - those days I read more and comment more. Some days my contribution is simply lurking and learning so I can pass it along to others I know.

These are extremely difficult times. You have the strength and fortitude to post often about about very pertinent and important issues - there are many many here who are very appreciative of your actions here. Me included. Thank you for all that you do. Don't despair. We are reading what you post and you may never know the positive results of the seeds you are planting.

r

And for babylonsister, fighting the good fight ... :hug:

I have seen more than a few of my threads about the suffering of the people of Iraq drop like rocks without a single comment or kick. I have kicked your threads on a number of occasions.

would change very much.

Might miss it in all the clutter sorry :(...
Thank you for posting.

... we know the deaths. We know the destruction. We know the shattered lives of the surviving.

We know... it just hurts to admit that this is being done... in our name... and we can do nothing to stop it.

:hi:

Ghost

attention. I WANT DUers to care about Iraqis, in the worst way, because that feeds into the fact that this whole thing is bogus, even though we know it.

just to wake people up to the fact that no matter where we fight them, we're still fighting, and people are STILL dying. I sometimes wonder if everyone realizes that. The goal should be not to have to fight them ANYWHERE, but to start a campaign of Peaceful Nation Building. War never does any good. Ever.

why are we fighting them there? Outside of the one al-Qaeda sympathizer we were protecting up north Iraq with our no-fly zone, there was no al-Qaeda influence in Iraq before the invasion. It's extremely immoral the way Bush has made Iraqis suffer for his vain attempt to "draw a line in the sand."

90% of them still say "well, we had to remove Saddam because he was killing his own people".

My reply: "Yeah, and Bush couldn't have that, he wants to kill them himself, and he's already killed more innocent Iraqi men, women & children than Saddam ever dreamed about."

<insert deafening silence here>

Next argument:"We can't leave over there, they are still shooting at us".

My reply: "If we're not there, they CAN'T SHOOT AT US, CAN THEY?"


<insert more deafening silence here>

The only thing that is going to change these people is either:

A.) We start showing the real graphic faces of the war (dead) on TV. Show the bodies in the streets, show our soldiers coming home in their flag draped coffins, show our wounded and mutilated, or

B.) Fight them here, so these gung-ho macho armchair warriors can see the effects of war firsthand. It's easy to advocate war and death, when you never see the actual finished product (dead people) of your desires.

STOP THE WAR NOW!

Ghost

And Bush is killing our own people, too...not to say that the Iraqis aren't important, because the way I see it, human lives are human lives, and these people did nothing to deserve it. If any freepers are lurking here, I want them to read and understand (although that's perhaps too much to ask) this: SADDAM HUSSEIN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. That was Osama bin Laden - yeah, remember him? We went to war in Iraq for a lie, and so that the "president" could prove that his penis was bigger than Saddam's. :eyes: And because of his sense of inadequacy, 3,300 of our nation's finest are dead. That would be the troops that you guys claim to "support" so much, by the way. Americans all. You know what this means, freepers? It means that Bush is responsible for more American deaths than Osama bin Laden...and certainly responsible for more American (and quite possibly Iraqi) deaths than Saddam Hussein. You want to see a madman and a dictator, you need look no further than the White House. He may not be quite that bad yet, but he's certainly headed in that direction. How many more people are you going to let this "pro-life" (isn't that a laugh?) president murder?

/rant

(Sorry...this whole war is one long nightmare, and there are so many things wrong with it I have trouble picking out the most important ones sometimes. x( All I know is that two months ago yesterday one of my friends lost his life over there, and his story is just like thousands of others - fine, brave young people who shouldn't have had their lives ended by this criminally insane sociopath of a "president." :cry: )

:hug: yes, it's been a long nightmare, but hopefully it is going to end soon. One of my die hard rightwinger customers came to me in tears today and told me I've been right about about needing to end this war. He just had a nephew lose a leg and half his face over there. One of the biggest things he wondered about (and I really think we (the Dems & anti - war group) need to stress more) was that we were going to leave the troops that are already there stranded in Iraq. We need to clarify our message and intentions on that part.

The best estimates by most experts ,and including the UN , Iraqi citizens killed by Sadam is about a million
including using gas on the Kurds.

I have been researching this a little and the most accurate numbers that seemed the most credible without any influence from Washington , were the United Nations Numbers of anywhere from
55,000 to 65,000 Iraqis have been killed since the invasion.

If you can find a more credible source than the UN please correct me and post it.

thanks

I do know that the one LONE C.I.A agent made a claim that Saddam didn't do it.
His defense council was available to call this agent on the stand , his name was made public.

Yet they didn't call him. WHY ? because his testimony would have been torn apart .The evidence was over whelming that he was involved in the gassing.

Did you follow his trial ?

Yeah, ok... as soon as YOU provide me with a credible link for YOUR research and assertations..

thanks...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/18/news/iraq.php

Sorry , this was 2006 by the UN , 50,000 DEAD since the invasion.

Your number of a million is ridiculous.

If it was not you that posted that at least million Iraqis died since
the invasion , I apologize , I know someone posted this number here.

he said we have caused the death of a half million to a million Iraqi deaths.

that's simply false.

Iraqi health minister says at least 150,000 civilians have been killed in the war

"In October, the British medical journal The Lancet published a controversial study contending nearly 655,000 Iraqis have died because of the war _ a far higher death toll than other estimates. The study, which was dismissed by President Bush and other U.S. officials as not credible, was based on interviews of households and not a body count.

Al-Shemari disputed that figure Thursday.

"Since three and a half years, since the change of the Saddam regime, some people say we have 600,000 are killed. This is an exaggerated number. I think 150 is OK," he said.

Accurate figures on the number of people who have died in the Iraq conflict have long been the subject of debate. Police and hospitals often give widely conflicting figures of those killed in major bombings. In addition, death figures are reported through multiple channels by government agencies that function with varying efficiency."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/09/ap/world/mainD8L9PBBG0.shtml

For some reason, I tend to believe the Iraqi Health Minister before I believe anything this misadministration or our supposed MSM has to say.
Of course the WH is going to deny the numbers or play them down. They have to try to save face somehow. Who do you believe?

For all we've destroyed over there. Maybe people would wake up that it's not just a video conflict.

We don't see the end results of this war on our TV's every day, much less seeing the results laying in our streets...

Wake up people! WAR KILLS!!!

than people dying in Iraq. That's obvious, right?

:sarcasm:

:hide:

ignoring it is not acceptable. Again, my question, why?

most of us probably also feel like we would be preaching to the choir, so to speak. :shrug:

I think my sig line pic says it all for me... maybe I'm wrong?

this needless war, and the number of needless deaths both for our troops and the Iraqis. This regime will keep on going with their agenda until they are stopped.

The only ways I know... I can't mention here. Quite honestly, the one way I see is mass demonstrations all over the United States, maybe even a revolution, but too many citizens are afraid to give up their "creature comforts" to do anything, much less anything useful.

Speaking for myself, I read stories like these and I just have to then deal with them in my manner. I am even beyond ranting about them. What can I honestly say that would add more?

But damn the eyes of our media for not reporting these stories. Oh Sweet Karma, do your thing.

You encourage me, as I try to do for you, but DAMN!
I get angry!
And since I've been logging on to DU, you've been there, not as a mentor,
but as someone I listen to because you're so damned cute! :evilgrin:

individuals that agree on the direction of the news release that day? I can barely watch, listen to them to even get the take on those in charge. It is hard to grasp the meaning of their existence beyond lying for their paychecks.

I just think people have to be either severely damaged or complete monsters to think what we are doing in Iraq is a good thing.

There are a lot of monsters afoot. We must stop them, somehow.

And the ones that are just damaged, we can try to sort them out of the mix, I guess.

Please understand your posts are appreciated, and useful for beating over the head of the uninformed and deniers.

I'm sponsoring three kids in Iraq and I try to imagine that they're getting by OK but who the hell knows. I would drive myself insane if I dwelled on it.

I tend to stay out of General Discussion. It's painful to read, because I DO care so very much, but damnit, what can we do?

Even after I self-kicked it.

Been pretty tough to keep Darfur threads alive, too. I finally gave up.

are REALLY unpopular as topics...

I have posted about how climate change will be caused largely by afluent nations and mostly affect the poorer ones and watched many a thread on that sink like stones. Not popular topics those...

ANS was poo-poohed, but Imus was fair game?
Disturbing when there's so much more to be concerned about.

A bad one. We do not have the power to make a good one. We've created hell on earth for them and they are going to have to live in it long after all our people are home.

Anything we give. Anything we send. Will be destroyed because it comes from us. Someone else will be the hero who saves them, if anyone does. It is the maintainance of our national arrogance that makes us still think anything else is possible.

So crying for them will do nothing. Murderers weeping over their victims earn only contempt. Those children were dead the day America decided to invade a non-belligerent nation. Maybe some of them will live. Not because of us. We are the worst thing that ever happened to them.

We are the bad guys.

"CARE" about what's going on. Can't we? And if not, why not?

Way too much guilt and recrimination. We've committed a crime. These are our victims. Our only choice is when and if to kill them. And even that is being taken out of our hands.

Our "caring" gets them nothing. It's another arrogant assumption of power we no longer possess.

Other nations, with less guilt in this crime, may step in to help. We authored it, so we cannot. We have to step back.

Concentrate on the crimes against our military, whose hands we have forced to commit these murders. These are the people we will have to face. These are the damaged people who will be coming home to us. If we can make people see what a horror this is for OURS, then we can sooner bring them home. That's the only half-good thing we can do for those children. Every other thing ...they would spit on us and we would deserve it.

they had arranged with Germany, France, Russia and others, let them set up their own version of the "Paul Bremer Rules", got the hell out of their way, that there might have been a far different situation there now. We broke it, but others with less blood on their hands may well have been able to fix it.

WE broke it WE own it! Americans are not the people who take pride in standing by while others in dire need suffer. bush and his ilk do NOT represent America. We are a big country, there are tens of thousands of Iraqi refugees who are seeking asylum here. WE MUST NOT ABANDON THEM even if bush would do just that! When it was apparent that our fiasco over in Viet Nam was about to fail, President Ford admitted to the people of America that we had a responsibility to those citizens of South Viet Nam who aided the doomed American cause. America did NOT turn her back to this. WE TOOK IN OVER 100,000 South Vietnamese refugees then.

Yes it can be argued that we also turned our backs on our vets back then but that was NOT the fault of those who sought safety on our shores! America is better for what it did for those Vietnamese refugees. We can learn from our mistakes with our vets and not repeat them.

If we turn our backs on the citizens of Iraq, then we will be committing ANOTHER crime against humanity. bushco has committed the first one with his illegal invasion of Iraq for the purpose of stealing her resources. He and his cronies should be held accountable for this by WE THE PEOPLE and Iraq. If WE THE PEOPLE turn our backs on the crises bushco has created then WE THE PEOPLE shall be held accountable by the world...and rightly so.

President Ford led America into doing the right thing with the Vietnamese refugees, it is time for America to lead it's child-President into doing what is right again. Can it be done? I do not know but I do know that it can NOT happen if we deliberately turn our backs to the crises!

Our second priority, not our first should be as you propose, healing our broken military. Let me offer a simple analogy: If YOU were in an auto accident with another auto AND you were the cause of that accident would your first concern be your own auto or would your first concern be for the safety and immediate welfare of those lives in the other auto? I already know what your answer here is...you are a fellow American and a fellow DUer. Americans by and large are not a nation of cold hearted selfish asshats. DUers especially represent what is right with our country.

It is no act of arrogance to "Want to do the right thing" It is a character attribute that one can take pride in. America is a "Can Do" nation, just because we have a selfish leader does not mean we have to become selfish as well. There is equal room here to aid the Iraqi citizens AND aid our military.

I am not attempting to flame you...I refuse to believe that you are a selfish asshat. We have been way overburdened here and I can't blame you or anyone else for wanting to seek shelter, to turn in-wards and heal our own. I hope you can understand that our own healing begins with the healing of others, those who were harmed in our name. That selfless deed will not go unnoticed...I believe the world may actually be a better place for our doing this.

Sorry I sound hard to you. But effective rescue means doing what you can, not more than you can. Neither guilt nor gooeyness impresses me. I don't waste my time on what I can't do or what I wish I could do.

You provide me with your list of what we can do in Iraq. Then we'll have a good bitter laugh.

And I don't give a damn who notices my deeds. They aren't done for a seat in heaven.

PS: Do you not get that asking Iraqis to take help from Americans is like asking Jews to take aid from the Nazis? WE ARE THEIR MURDERERS. Let the Irish come in to help, let the Chinese. We don't get to assuage our guilt by forcing people to take charity from their destroyers. That's the way Bush and his people think. Can we try for a little more sensitivity than that?

All Americans are NOT out to rob Iraq of their resources nor are all Iraqi citizens so blinded by hatred to think that we are ALL Nazis. If we would have left those 100,000 South Vietnamese behind to die...and most would have, then we would have been guilty of a second crime. WE DID THE RIGHT THING THEN. You are advocating the senseless and NEEDLESS murder of tens of thousands of your fellow human beings...I REFUSE to believe that you are so callous. I'll accept shell-shocked.

Tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens have come to the aid of our military and our civilian non-combatants over in Iraq. (The official White-House numbers list ten thousand interpretors on AMERICA'S payroll alone!) As this fiasco of a war winds down and eventually it will, these Iraqi citizens will be needing a new home for themselves and their families...just like what happened as Viet-Nam became reunited. Many of these Iraqi "collaborators" are even now seeking asylum here in America for their families. bush and co are dragging their feet here. They claim that there is no way for an overworked Dept. Of Homeland Security to filter that many refugees onto our shores. This is BS we took MORE than that many from a number of countries last year alone.

What can you do? Write your congress-critter and ask them to FURTHER investigate the plight of the Iraqi "Collaborators" who are now seeking safe harbor on our shores. You and I obviously can do little more than that but our Congressmen CAN aid these folks who are seeking asylum here. They can pass legislation easing the restrictions that bush would impose on these Iraqi refugees. Thats all...how hard can that be? It's not like I am asking anyone to sail off to Dunkirk here.

Those Iraqi citizens aided America...getting their families wiped out for that aid is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS payment from us. They are all ready starting to die RIGHT NOW...and yes they ARE asking for our help, that's easily implied in their request for asylum in America.

I salute you for your dedication to the needy animals. Please understand, I am not calling for triage, I am calling for prevention...America CAN do this. President Ford DID it so there are no reasons why bush can not. (Except maybe admitting that he is losing the war he has already lost anyway, something you already know he will never do). Saving lives is NOT a laughing matter.

The contentious issues are the ones that get the biggest number of replies.

What a freaking tragedy.

What we are doing to that poor country haunts me. It makes me sick. My husband says I'm too obsessed with worry about the plight of Iraqis, but dear God, I'm 64 years old, and have children, and grandchildren, and great-grandchildren I love and cherish, and every time I think about what the children of Iraq are suffering, I relate that to how I would feel if it were one of mine.

I keep thinking that in many cities and villages in Iraq, there are women my age who have lost many of those they loved, they watch their loved ones wither under the pitiless assault of Bush's war of choice, and nothing hurts a person more than to watch their young suffer. What pain must they feel, trying to soothe their frightened, bewildered, soul-scarred children, when the bombs and guns and mortars rage on?

How do they find the strength to keep comforting these innocents? How do they manage to summon the strength, and the will, to face day after day after day of never knowing whether their loved ones, their friends, will survive another day of Bush-made hell? The Iraqis love their children as much as we love ours, and their anguish is as real, and as important, as ours.

I believe, Babylonsister, that you, like me, are feeling the shame, and the pain, of being inhabitants of a country which has allowed George Bush and his neocons to brutalize another country, one which was no threat to us, and to continue to allow him to serve as president. We feel frustration, and rage, and pain. I'm sorry if I've been guilty of seeming to not care, because I do. :cry:

people are thinking. Excellent, and thank you! We NEED to clue people into the fact that it's not about US and who's ahead in the polls, but what is really going on and how it might effect people eventually.
I hope everyone reads this thread and thinks about the next time something is posted that really might touch us all. :hug:

:kick:

I post a lot of articles that very few people, if any, reply to. The DU just seems to respond a lot more if it is relating to the current scandals or if it is flame bait. It is really sad more people aren't focusing on the suffering of the Iraqi children. It is amazing the flame bait people post on the presidential candidates.

btw, check my signature line if you've missed my blog articles, many of which have been on the front page of BuzzFlash!

It's like when I post about nursing home abuse and neglect in the United States. Nobody gives a damn. They're old people. Let them die. "Yeah? Here's a clue." Our bodies' cells are genetically programmed to reproduce just so many times. After that, they stop replacing themselves and we DIE! The message is "We all get old, and we all face death." Maybe someday, for good or ill, stem cell research will change all that, but for now The Grim Reaper is alive and well. Click here to stop the abuse and neglect suffered daily by our elderly.

and I read your threads. But I'm usually at a loss to say anything. :( :(

It is so horrifying what the peoples of Iraq and the children have had to suffer.

You have to keep a safe disconnect or you could go crazy.

We are so helpless in this situation to affect any change.

The horrors are impossible to confront on a daily basis.

I don't want to hear about the lectures that we can change what is going on. We voted, we donated, we elected. There is only so much that an American citizen committed to justice can do.

It is because crimes against children are the most disturbing of all. When you can't do anything to protect them you become numb. You must or it will drive you insane.

The same goes for the victims in Dafur or any other place in the world where genocide is occurring.

Humans can only accept so much responsibility. They have to disconnect. If only for survival.

However, this is modern-day, media-soaked America. An America built on other people's dreams and with yet another history written, (and well edited) by the victors.

It really does not seem to matter what a few of us think or do anymore because the media-at-large has been allowed to sit on the throne of information -- despite those reached by alternative news via the Internet and other sources. We have been told that this is not only a rather digital age but that the most vital commodity is information as in, knowledge is power.

To be fair, everyone living a life today has two, almost polar, opposites to contend with. One is that this may be the only life they can live without certainty of what may come after it ends, and the other is that there is a larger body politic with teeming masses affected by not only our lifestyles, but our "ignorance is bliss" Gestalt. It is so hard, (for Americans especially) to keep on trying to have their cake and eat it to, as much as it is almost impossible to realize that we need not send for whom the bell tolls because, more and more we are intuiting that it will prove to be tolling for us if things stay on the same, dismal course.

To test this out, all you need to do is talk with people who are following the MSM as their sole source of information and who trust, without much in the way of critical thought or question, the institutions that surround them and portray themselves as the answers to vital needs. In that case, saying things that push at the edges of their envelope or inject information that might be unsettling -- no matter how vital and important it may be -- can yield a wide-range of responses that tend to move towards breaking with seems, to many, both radical and subversive to the media saturated, indoctrinated mind. You will get odd looks and possibly a guick-change of subject, as if you said nothing at all. Rather than evoking shock and an immediate curiosity about the information you might provide, you tend to get raised eyebrows, deer-in-the-headlights looks, and an almost immediate diversion most likely going back to the problem the person was moaning about. It is as if the solution was not really all that important and the system inculcated problem was most important.

We are not going to get far at all as long as we, or a larger percentage of those around us, are plugged into the system and our most vulnerable children, (who do not yet have the faculties to discern about accepting or rejecting what is being foisted upon them by both media and schools) are being exposed constantly to the rampant manipulation of the seemingly innocuous and benevolent messengers that are practically ubiquitous in our age.

Without a growing unplugging from the new opiate of the masses, (now only seconded by organized religions) those who dare to awaken and really start to see with their ears and hear with their eyes, will only be doomed to wonder, (until they are illumined as to why) and post what the author of this thread has. Knowing the truth, no matter what it may actually be, may set you free, but it won't be so fun, pretty, or enriching as you might hope it to be if you have not ventured into the zone where veracity is sought tenaciously -- here be dragons!

Really, I read what you posted twice and I am trying to follow you.

I am not quite sure what the heck you are trying to say.

I get that you are (I think) discussing the hallucinations that the working class are having as a result of relying upon MSM for their truths.

I am guessing that is what you are referring to when you discuss "the new opiate of the masses".

I think we may be on the same page, but man you got to speak english.

And thanks for reading it more than once.

My problem is that I have read thousands of books, hundreds of thousands of pages on the Net, and have been told I "think too much". And yet, what is a being with a brain apt to do? Or, what should they being doing when possessing a multi-million year old process that I call a bio-computer? I mean, there is an organism and there is a mind. The organism seems rather real, but the mind is something rather intangible and a quest to find it relies on the very abstraction it creates plus a form of faith in its self-supporting reality. But, that is the realm that is most pregnant for the manipulation of information by those who have the money, power, science, and statistics to mold this secondary aspect of what we think of as reality.

Yes, it is correct to frame the MSM version of "reality" as a collective hallucination. After all, it is not real like stubbing your toe, a bad burn, falling in love, losing a loved one, etc. Those may be subjective realities, but I am sure anyone can verify them without a commercial full of testimonials or a scientific committee to prove the fact or even a political cabal to verify your experience.

Yes, it is far to easy to equate the television, (and I mean the kind that is connected to networks, cable, dish, etc.) with opiates as in the same way that Marx connected religion with that drug class. Don't get me wrong, some of Marx's theories represented a vital and relative reactonary solution to rampant capitalistic paradigms and the age of Robber Barons, but it lacked the heart and soul of our nature and so, it was bound to be nothing but an ad hoc antithesis that merely served a new form of control and elitism in practice. But I digress.

We are on the same page. If anyone out there cannot see the essential purpose and motive behind the MSM, (the quesiton one once framed, do the commercials exist to bring you the entertainment, or does the entertainment exist to bring you the commercials) then what I am saying clearly has no import. People these days are filling as many rooms in their homes as they can afford to with TV's and cable/satellite boxes. They let their kids sit in the bedrooms watching this stuff as long as they want to. As long as they want to? It has gone from the church of the cathode-ray to a baby sitter, to a glowing Big Brother who only needs eyes to see to be complete. And yet, it is mostly welcomed and accepted and payed for as if it were the equivalent to food and water.

So, in closing, as long as television, (and radio) is an accepted norm and few see that the total control of that information and its subtle, yet overwhelmingly powerful, purpose and underlying intent, then things will procede in favor of those who control the media, period. And our children will most likely prove to be more diligent devotees to its fast-paced, agressive, yet numbing, voice and visions. They will not want or need imagination or critical thinking because it will become counterproductive to being told what you want, need, should and should not do, and what you really have to have to be happy.

The rest is academic. You can argue this or that as a minority, but the looming tube and speaker trump the voices of those who see liberation and lend their intent to it. I am not pessimistic about a liberation from the sleep-inducing, even distracting voice of television, but one can find dismay in the numbers of people who do not see this glaringly obvious intruder in action.

I "think" I gotcha.

And it comes down to teaching your values at home. I for one do not or have not set my children in front of the TV to avoid having to deal with them.

Yes, we have TV's in almost every room. They are used for video games, sports events, and entertainment from time to time. However, all values and attitudes are taught by myself personally.

I have very rigid ideas. I am very liberal and left leaning. I have given my children the gift of tolerance, acceptance, and unconditional love. They have thrived and are fine examples of human beings. They are accepted and admired amongst their peers, and because of their upbringing they exude confidence, empathy, compassion, and a spirit that is contagious. I am a lucky parent.

As far as the population at large, you are correct in your assertions as to their hypnotized state. I see it within my own family when they ask me if I am watching Survivor. It is embarrassing to admit that I have not even had an influence on my own flesh and blood that I communicate with on almost a daily basis.

But what I have found is that people have a resistance to uncomfortable information. They would rather not hear it. Even my mother, would rather watch reruns of Law and Order than hear about war and torture, and those things which are real. People want to escape, they deal with life's pressures every single day. I just think it is too much for them to handle.

I know for myself, information has ruined my life. It is really a shock when you discover that everything you thought was true turns out to be an Alice in Wonderland fairy tale. That was really a difficult struggle for me. And being addictive, once I got a hold of a little truth, I wanted more. The more truths I discovered, the sicker I became. The sicker I became, the more I isolated. The more I isolated, the more information I gained. It has been quite a struggle for me. So that is enough about me.

Some things are too scary for people. They want to just pretend that it is not that bad. They have not the time or the resources to affect any change, so like children, they just wish it away. It is just human nature.

By the way, you are really hard to understand. Maybe I am stupid. But I had to re-read this last post several times before I got a grip on what you were saying.

You are on a precipice. That is why the way of communicating my those of my kind sounds so strange and foreign. It is like are from another planet and almost communicating in another language, even though we are using the accepted norms of common English -- or is there much commonness in the language when it departs from the now induced norms? Change is happening fast, and it is appealing to me the kind of divide in communications like this. I would refer you to George Orwell's Ninteen-Eighty-Four and how Newthink and Newspeak are gradually foisted upon the public. Maybe that can help you see why my way of writing and thinking may sound so out of place.

From your insights so far, I would like to caution you on one thing: oneupmanship! It is essential that you use caution here. The entire game of the mind is played around getting one over on an individual or a group, weather it is obvious or not. We may not realize it directly, but subtly, this game is played out across races, religions, political philosophies, academics vs. labor, sciences, arts, etc. Being aware and informed is not, essentially and pragmatically, about superiority, and yet, it can play out that way. In that case, it merely supports, in a way, what one is trying to, inadvertently in most cases, thwart.

I am so glad to see that you are on the verge of something that transcends the ordinary and accepted trance of manipulation. While you struggle to comprehend my language and mannerisms, (reaped and gathered from days now gone by) remember that compassion for those who are, for various reasons, caught within the softly spoken magic spell of today's regimental, controlled, panotpicon of delusion purported, packaged, and presented as the ultimate, democratic freedom, are no lessor or more stupid than those who see, they are merely following their natural inclinations towards comfort, security, and a good life. It is by those essential needs that they are being led to slaughter, so how can we do any good by feeling and acting special, superior, different than they are?

Our obligation is, once we see though Plato's cave, to have tolerance and understanding and to be steadfast while we practice love and patience. Then, we simply persist and model for others with conviction, knowing that this is how things work and that the media has done just that, (in a deceptive way) in order to gain the trust and ensuing obedience of the masses to the corporate and elite voice that now guides them to their demise -- one way or another -- for nothing more than pure profit and power.

Keep moving on that path you are on with those words in mind. You have stepped onto the map of a greater territory, but there is much to explore before you.

and I have also seen the light. From our educational system to our John Wayne pictures on TV, to our media we are truly indoctrinated.

The ruling powers have learned their methods very well and are very good at it. I believe Noam Chomsky had it right-on-center.

It takes a very strong independent critical thinking mind to see through the fog that has been created for us. And even more importantly than that, it requires an intense desire for truth. Those have been my downfalls. And when you know the truth, you have to be able to allow your heart to break over-and-over again. You just have to make sure that each time it breaks, it breaks in the open position.

I hear ya! You deserve a :kick:

that the reason had to do with what Americans were doing to Vietnamese people. It had to do with Americans caring more about what it was doing to Americans.

Think of every movie about Vietnam. In all those movies, it's Americans who are the victims.

Even Apocalypse, Now. It's about how crazy the war made Americans.

The last thing Americans think about is how American policy affects people in other countries, either when we're supporting or criticizing bad policies.

without also noting Iraqi casualties -- which exceed U.S. casualties by a factor of, what, 300 or more? . . .

THAT'S the real crime here -- moreso even than the tragic losses our own troops are bearing . . . what we've done (and continue to do) to that nation and its people is one of the most despicable acts of mass murder, cultural devastation, and environmental destruction in recent memory . . .

the very definition of "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" . . .

My heart goes out to these children, and the children of the entire Middle East, who are growing up in chaos and seeing people die all around them, are being killed everyday. This is not exactly being raised "by a village." *sigh* The majority of the Iraqi population is young, and they are being brought up during terrible conditions. which will certainly affect them for the rest of their lives, no matter how things turn out, and he prospects of things turning out well for them there doesn't look good...:-(

Laura Bush* likes to talk about how little girls are going to school in Afghanistan, now, as well as little boys. I knew that she was lying or misinformed when she made that speech, since none of these kids can go to school; it's just too dangerous.;(

I remember a post that someone here made, on the eve of "shock and awe." It was a pic of a little Iraqi boy of about four or five, who was taking part in a candlelight vigil for peace, and was trying to make his candle float in the water. When this bloody war started and I saw the bombs and explosions, I often thought of this little kid, wondered if he was frightened or if he was even still alive. I take your point...;(

Your voice is always recognized and respected. You're not just killing time when you write here. Your comments are well considered, informed at all times. This is somewhat uncommon, by God.

From your article:

The Bush administration, which invaded Iraq under the slogan of saving the Iraqi people from the tyranny of the then dictator, Saddam Hussein, now seems oblivious to the plight of Iraqi civilians, and children in particular.

It is crystal clear for the entire world that Bush, named "the Liar of the Year 2006" by Newsweek, only wants to plunder Iraq's natural resources. The Bush regime is quietly plundering Iraqi oil, and the corruption and insecurity in Iraq, fanned by the American military occupation, is facilitating this process.

The Iraqi government is under immense pressure to restore peace and security to the occupation-torn country, but this is an impossible task as long as the Bush regime defies American and world public opinion, by refusing to withdraw its forces from Iraq.

The fact of the matter is that President Bush's urge for surge is really designed to facilitate the plunder of Iraq's crude oil reserves.
(snip)

So damned sad. I hope all those who contributed to this condition will have the results brought home to them IN THIS LIFETIME, and SOON. I hope they'll have absolutely no where to hide. It has always seemed they have believed they will all have died of old age peacefully in their sleep long before it all could catch up with them.

Your posts are appreciated, Babylonsister.

I know that Bushco sees many vital interests in Iraq and that Iraq's children are not among those interests.

Your post, Babylonsister, is a firm reminder to me (on dialup) that I must constantly be aware of my priorites to my subject viewing, here at the DU. Your post makes it even less likely (as if that were possible) I would entertain the notion to click on Anna Nicole Smith or American Idol threads.

K&R

and I am sure every one is sick of seeing my posts.

But we can never stop, we must keep posting.
If we can save one life then it is worth it.

The hurt, scared, injured women and children haunt me.
They have no voice. We must speak for them.

what efforts can we take to stop it. Do you know?

Insist for the immediate withdrawal of American troops.

That is the first step.

Have the UN and other countries come up with a plan to stabilize the country. And make arrangements for temporary refugee placements for those who wish to be safe. America could pay host countries to take care of the refugees. It would be cheaper in the long run than continuing to fight the war. Everything we destroy we are going to have to pay to rebuild anyway.

I do not believe all the nonsense that there is no way to stop the war. This is not rocket science, there are ways to stop in now, this minute, if we wanted to. The reality is apparently no one really wants the war to stop.

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these thugs were not immuned from ICC, this is pure murder, this pre emptive shit must stop. We have to strike them before they strike us, what kind of BS is this? at one time before Bush, war would be the last resort not the first resort.

Is that our currently addictive lifestyles, (inculcated for must of us from childhood) keep us feeding the very beast we rally against.

It is primarily a media-induced machine that has manufactured what we currently desire, crave, and pay for as a lifestyle. Currently, most of us grew up on the radio/tube/newspaper and it is now all owned by fewer and fewer people and companies. That condensation is a consolidation of power that is going largely unnoticed, though once it was thought of as something despicable and illegal.

So, my point is, how do you bite the hand that feeds you when you pay it to do so? That is quite a Guillema for the people of today, especially in Amerika. We try to avoid our culpability as best we can, but it does not take much investigation to see that we bought into the lifestyle that we now pay so dearly into -- in fact, we are more heavily invested in it credit-wise than we are our own children or retirement) and cannot see any clear path for weaning from.

That system that we support now does what it wants, when it wants, and we are the masses who provide what it needs to feed its own agendas and long-term goals. In other words, we cannot at all or ever, have our cake and eat it too. So, to end this war, or to change anything, we would have to approach something equivalent to a mass cold-turkey, and we don't want to or need to unless the inevitable outcome of this game forces us to. By then, thanks to current technology, the realization will be far too late. I think the powers-that-be know that already and, as in the past, have factored that into the game plan.

The most major revolution in this country could come, overnight, by a vast majority of the population seeing how they are literally paying for and funding their own subjugation and manipulation. If that majority were to cancel their currently vital list of payed-for services that feed the machines, it would have a recognizable impact. But who is going to turn off their cable/satellite service? Who is going to renig on thier cell-phone service and end it? Who is going to say less is better and I can never get enough of what I don't need to really make me happy? And yet, that would send shock waves into the matrix of the system that owns the country and, no matter how overtly or subtly, (depending on how sheeplish we are being) determines the ultimate course of things while telling us this is a democracy and that we have both responsibility and free will.

No, we would rather sort our garbage and pretend that recycling is saving the planet. We would rather feel good about anything we are told will make us feel good than to take any action that would bring a demonstrable result for generations to come.

And there you have it. As long as we are the sheepish slaves to what we are conditioned to want over time, and accept it as totally normal and justifiable, we are going to have the kind of results that both make us sick to our stomachs and uncomfortable with, and that reveal that there is a greater price to pay than the original offering reveals. In that case, it is purely pragmatic and a logical equation, except for that fact that 'x' does not get solved until our personal experience catches up with what has been carefully and subtly witheld and obscured all along the way. And yet, it never takes much more than questioning and curettage to pull back that thin veil.

Land of the free? Home of the brave? Yeah, right.

You blame the problem on the masses yet not the rulers of the kingdom.

Be gone with your "it's your fault" rhetoric. It really serves no constructive purpose.

We know that innocents have, are and will continue to be sacrificed in this illegal and immoral war. I personally don't need to be reminded of it as I think about it every single day.

I always read them. That is why I get so angry when I hear Bush and his minions talk about schools being built and progress being made. We will never win in Iraq and I'm not sure what the answer is for stopping the sectarian fighting now going on. What will happen when we pull our troops out, which I think we should do. Will that start to bring an end to the sectarian violence? Who will rebuild the decimated country? I'm afraid the children of Iraq, whose lives have been so affected, are the future haters of the US and who can blame them. The government now in Iraq is totally ineffective so what is the answer to that? Bush/Cheney have created a disaster they have no solution for and they are now throwing everything and anything at it to no avail. Who knows what the answer to all of it is. Will the children ever stop suffering!!!

thanks for posting!

and I want to scream

How do you type a scream?

Cause that's where I'm at with it.

and some will read this and tell themselves and attempt to tell me that "they" won't get away with it...and I'll reject that thought because I'm in no mood to lie to myself about it and in even less of a mood to prop up somebody else's hope on the subject - and I'm liable to laugh in their faces.

And that's where I'm at with it as well.

I'm downright bitter about what is happening.

I resent my government for everything it has done to Iraq and the Iraqis...and I mean resent in every facet of the word. All the other emotions that come with it..all the anger and hurt.

I'm not in the mood to be nice or forgiving or patient on the subject of Iraq.

I'm sick of being told "it takes time"...it didn't much time at all to get into Iraq...and it for damn sure didn't take any thought...People are dying...they don't have time.

Let me stop now...cause I can go all day on this subject

I am sorry that you feel this way.

I suspect part of the problem is the speed at which this board moves, which of course, would be helped by a K & R!

I honestly don't even remember seeing one of your posts on this topic. And yes, it is important, especially since our nation is the reason that these poor people are suffering.

Much more important than all of the postings on Don Imus. OMG, I couldn't believe how many posts there were about that topic. And Anna Nicole Smith, and American Idol. Truly superficial topics, although some people might need that bit of escapism.

I for one, appreciate your many postings, in fact, you are one that if I see your name, I usually look at your post.

Thank you for keeping us all informed.

I frequently do not know what to say. I have a burning desire to adopt at least a million Iraqi children, but hardly realistic. The posts are valuable, but probably leave most of us speechless.

White House, sadly, does not. He doesn't listen to Congress. He doesn't listen to us. He listens only to some warped voice in his head he thinks is God. Unless we can convince our representatives to impeach both Bush and Cheney, the Iraqi people will continue to suffer until 2009.

So, responding satisfactorily to your posts is now the official measure of our concern for Iraqi children? Huh. Who knew?

astounding, as if Iraq and her people don't exist. And considering what 'we' have done, that's unbelievable. But thanks for chiming in; you're right on time.

I think we're all aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people. We're all aware that we, as taxpayers, are funding it. Opposition to the war is nearly unanimous here on DU, and many, many DUers are actively working in creative ways to end the war. But that's apparently not good enough for you--because we're not, you know, responding to your posts with sufficient enthusiasm. No, nothing sanctimonious or self-serving there.

We were all 'aware' of Imus, too, but that didn't stop a gazillion posts about him. My point is, why were/are the threads about the travesty in Iraq ignored? And I'm not just talking about mine, so spare me. I asked a question, if you don't like it, move on.

Your assumption is that 'we' here at the DU don't care about the people of Iraq. I find that singularly obnoxious. I don't know you, you don't know me and to assume that just because I don't post on every single thread that gets written about the tragedy in Iraq means I don't care is arrogant. Many times I don't respond to a post if I can't think of anything to add to what has already been said. I bet most people here are like that. If you were posting those threads for the sole purpose of getting a message out, you wouldn't be so worried about how much response you get.

is what it's all about. I just wondered as those threads, mine and others, sink so fast.
I guess I wanted to know if I was wasting my time because no one seemed to care.

Apparently the OP feels that DU's near universal opposition to the war is insufficiently passionate, or something. Or maybe she thinks we oppose it for the wrong reasons, or at least not for the "best" reason. Or, it could be that she feels her posts on the subject aren't getting enough hits, and that makes her feel unloved and unimportant. My money's on door #3. If the OP really wanted to be taken seriously on this issue, she should probably refrain from quoting Iranian sources that can be easily dismissed as propaganda.

when I needed it.
:grouphug:

...is exactly why i oppose the war. it is exactly why i have such a hard time "support(ing) the troops". what is being done to them is being done by those troops we "support". maybe you should send yor missives to them, see if they'll respond.

I am sickened by the slaughter of Iraqi people. I am disgusted re the disruption and invasions into their lives by a brutal occupying force. I have never understood how so many Americans remain silent (and I don't mean DUers) about the evil meted out to these people by George Bush and his cronies. Woudl they tolerate this in one of their own cities? And then I remember New Orleans.

speaking out for the voiceless.

this has got to stop.

If I had I would have taken notice, even if I didn't reply. I always make myself look at pictures and videos and stories of what we have done there.

I started reading Holocaust survivor stories when I was very young, and I think they impressed me with the need to be a witness to suffering and not to bury my head in the sand. So now I piss off a lot of people who want to bury their heads in the sand.

If you want to, do a search on 'Iraq' in editorials and general discussion, and GD/P. There are tons. I'm feeling better knowing people, while perhaps not commenting, are reading.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=274814

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=274638

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=274311

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=273927

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=273875

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=273346

Some things are so horrific, words can't do them justice.

though I do read many of them. I guess we do get to the point where there just isn't anything to say. :-(

There seems no point in kicking them since the no. of views on that forum are so low :shrug:.

a majority of DUers, like a majority of Democrats in general, (if the MSM and polls are to be believed,) support our continued presence in Iraq. I don't believe conditions in Iraq will get any better as long as we are there. If you are busy spouting platitudes and rhetoric about future plans, rather than supporting immediate withdrawal, bringing attention to the atrocities our presence helps to create would place the blame squarely in your lap. What Democrat, or DUer, wants to be held accountable for that?

There may be a number of pro-war Democrats, but they are not the sort who would generally join DU.

And not everyone here is an American Democrat. About 20% of people here are non-Americans, most of whom probably chose to join DU in the first place because of our opposition to the war.

Virtually all DUers will say that they are against the war, that's true.

How many who say they are against the war are campaigning for someone who voted for the IWR, or who voted to continue to fund the war, or for a candidate who is "against" the war, but also against ending the war NOW?

When the walk doesn't match the talk, I'm a little skeptical about those claims to be "against" the war in Iraq.

Walking the lake trail, I wonder what special places Iraqi women & children use to walk to. I wonder what those places looked like before. I try to imagine a life where I would not feel or be safe walking the three blocks to the grocer & I simply cannot. I remember the Iraqi man who stated that almost every night he had a funeral to attend & I am filled with rage & shame at what my country has done. No one should have to live like this. No one.

It is overwhelming. I think that I see the end to this as equating with the end to the War on Iraq. If we could stop that, we could stop this.

:hug: :grouphug: :hug:

Sending good vibes his way, Maggie...I hope he'll be all right. :hug:

I just can't take it at times...

I am so bitter and angry at times that I can't subject myself to any more of it, and I believe Bush and Cheney do it on purpose. They pile outrageous actions one on another - with apparent impunity - until we hit overload and can't function. I think that's why we're starting to see so many attacks on the new Democratic majority in Congress. They are an easier target because they respond. BushCo simply ignores all input - including reality - if it doesn't comport with its totalitarian worldview.

Bush has driven us into a state of dysfunction by overloading us with anger and frustration. It's time to pull back from the anger and simplify.

I'm going to start by writing every one of my representatives and tell them it's time to end this nightmare. My mantra will be, "Impeach. Impeach. Impeach."

it is scandal/heart ache fatigue

For many of us, we shut off or try to ignore what we can't handle, what we can't change, it is all so overwhelming.

Do you realize that this mess made by the admin is basically unending and that is what they want?

Even if congress is successful in its efforts to force a "withdrawal", the colonization of iraq will always require our presence, that law that the Iraqi parliament passed in february allows our oil corporations 30 years to profit from their oil, for 30 years we will have to be there to protect them.

This is a repeat of britian's efforts to colonize from the 1900's.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=12538

There are no answers to this disaster, not as long as the corporations have a hold on our nation, not as long as the citizens see personal enrichment as their right over the rights of others to simply live.

:cry:

...and it's not that nobody cares, but that everyone pretty much agrees and feels the same outrage that they've already expressed over and over and over again. If someone posts "Global Climate Crisis Threatens Thousands of Species With Extinction," for instance, you're not going to get a bunch of people here jumping in and calling it a "hoax" (aside from the odd freeper troll, of course - and I do mean odd) - so the response, whether internalized or written, is a pretty universal, "How terrible, how sad." Result: another important topic sinks amidst the "lighter" posts that generate a lot of arguement and debate.

That doesn't mean it's useless to post these topics. It's anything but useless. People do read them, and do learn. I get pretty much all my news from DU, for instance - it's a much better and more complete source than any other. I very much appreciate the posts and information that are put up here by yourself and others. I might recommend to the posters to include, if possible, a link or an idea as to what readers might personally do about the problem, otherwise readers just feel horrified and overwhelmed and paralyzed. (That was my main criticism of the otherwise-wonderful "An Inconvenient Truth," too - it clearly outlined the problem, but the problem is so big it's easy to feel hopeless without some specific calls to action.) I realize it's not always possible to add such a link or info, but when it is, please do. Also to readers, if the topic is important to you, please at least kick it, even if you have nothing to add. I try to do that as I think about it, but we could all probably do better.

Another factor is that sometimes people can't deal with a particular topic, and for their own sanity have to skip it on any given day. That certainly happens to me sometimes. I see the title and I realize I can't even stand to read it that day, or the horror will follow me around for the rest of the day or longer. There are any number of topics I wish I hadn't read. But that's not every day, not even the majority of days. And it won't be true for everybody on any given day. So do keep posting! You're informing people even if they don't reply. You can track your impact if you compare the number of views vs. the number of replies to a post - often there are lots of views even if there are few replies. You are doing something very worthwhile!

I think there are just no words, but the stories are read. I have to say this to myself sometimes.

There. I said it. :cry:

.. every damm day.

Sometimes I think it is part of the reason that humankind is going extinct
so soon.

It's as though the suffering is so widespread.. and children everywhere
including elite USA are so mistreated and brutalized.. including Bush
and his cronies.. that they can't think humanly and thus, extinction.

and I think we all do care. Maybe there aren't so many replies to your posts because almost everyone agrees about this on DU. People tend to post more on more controversial issues.

What has been done to the Iraqi people in the name of 'bringing them democracy and freedom' is just pure evil.

and kick and that's about as close as I come to being verbal. :(

Some of the information is almost unbearable. I know that awful shit is going on, but I usually feel unable to express my sorrow, outrage, pain to what happens daily in Iraq and the rest of the world. I don't have the answer to the many nightmares that are going on now, but I want you to know that it does help to know that others feel as I do and that's why I keep coming back to du.

I dunno why you get so few replies. I got that way after 911 just kind off fell of the radar. And look how long ago that was. :(

This tragedy is huge on so many levels, of course as with all wars, the most vulnerable always suffer the most. How many orphans, how many deaths, how many with missing limbs, how many blinded or suffering from mental illness because of greed, power lust, fear, ignorance and spite? It staggers the mind.


:grr:

Kicked and recommended

give it any thought.

Not to mention, the warmongers. Justified or not, it is inevitable. Part of the cure is to remove the industrial/military complex from the equation.

but I honestly have no more words to express my sadness at what our country has become and the horrors being done in our names. Never think you're alone in your rage my friend.

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to an issue that is very grave..and find yourself in a smaller circle of people who will talk about that day in and day out. I know myself I will read stuff on Darfur..but will not look at videos about Iraq. I think people are pacing themselves really. I know I have to.

to you today on this forum babylonsister. But don't ever ever feel alone, because you are not. I have laid in bed a many-of-night in turmoil thinking about this. I find it very hard to talk about it.

But don't get the idea, for one second, that you are just spitting in the wind, because YOU ARE NOT. Keep on keeping on. One step in front of the other. You are fighting the good fight.

Also keep in mind that every time anyone takes the time and effort to post regarding the election fraud and what needs to stop it here in this country, also any time anyone posts anything about impeaching Bush, or praising Cindy Sheehan, - Well I imagine that part of the motivation behind those topics is to reduce and then totally eliminate the number of children suffering and dying around the world on account of the Bush Crime family. And then there are the children who still don't sleep nights because part of their childhood was spent on a rooftop in New Orleans with no government coming to help.


To my mind, the most horrible of suffering occurs there in Iraq - and also in Afghanistan, Columbia and elsewhere as well.

Women die in childbirth from hemorrhaging in African nations because the Right Wing Christian fanatics have stopped non-profit agencies from supplying the drugs that are used to stop hemorrhaging to third world countries as these drugs can also be used to induce abortion.

Number 1 is racism. People of color are simply less important. This isn't a particularly conscious construct, it's just "What interests me? Not that. Don't know why."

I'm not even totally sure that's not part of why I'm not as interested as you want me to be. I try to work on my own racism, ferret it out, stare it down, but who knows?

In addition, on my own part:

* I'm sick of this war. I really don't want to hear much more about it, ever. This isn't racism, this is war overload.

Then there's psychic overload. There is a powerful lot of shit we are asked and expected to care about every day that Bush is in office. It's literally impossible to give it ALL one's total outrage. Just can't do it. Some days I can handle more, some days less (esp. given the fact that I too have a life and sometimes said life goes astray and causes me grief and sorrow and other assorted problems).

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It isn't about HER, but thank you for responding to the post on such a sophomoric level :eyes:. Thanksfully you are in a minority clearly.

Babylonsister is not an egotistical poster.

(Not that there are no egotistical posters on DU. For example, the ones who keep posting about how dumb all of DU is for not supporting them and their conservative views).

I've never complained about not getting enough attention, and then accused all the not-giving-me-attention-people of not caring about dead Iraqi children.

So how could I be projecting?

:rofl:

That's obvious.

One good thing about you though is that in comparison I come across as a totally nice guy,and that's not easy.

That is the first thing. I know I read them and seldom reply because I have nothing to add. OK, I don't kick them, which would get them up on the page, and probably should do that more. But saying everyone ignores them or does not care is way wrong and I resent that. I will try to be better at kicking them. The same goes for many others also, babsis, many important posts sink NOT out of lack of caring but out of lack of posting.

I send boxes of shoes and clothes and medicine for Iraqi children

May I add to this the tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens who may be slaughtered BECAUSE they had a family member who may have showed some support for bushco. As the "war" continues and more and more hatred is being generated toward America over in Iraq, any Iraqi who helped the bush cause will be seen as a collaborator. There are tens of thousands of Iraqi interpretors, policemen, aides and etc. who have been paid by us to aide us in our failed attempt to bring Democracy to Iraq. They AND their families NEED OUR HELP if they are to survive. Our government, (bushco) is not about to let these folks on our shores as refugees, their excuse: "How do we know which ones are terrorists?" Did you know we let over a hundred thousand (South), Vietnamese in to America after that particular fiasco? Most of them would be dead right now had President Ford not admitted that AMERICA needed to take responsibility here!

These Iraqi citizens, whose only crime was to buy into bush's lies and help us are even now seeking asylum here in America. They and their families face a severe fate if bush does not follow President Fords's example. If Homeland Security really were an issue then set these folks up in a refugee camp...it's not like we have not done so in the past. We could investigate each on a case by case basis and filter them in at our leisure... Sure it would be another hot-button issue having camps here again like the ones we had for the Japanese/Americans during WWII but at least these folks will have a chance to keep breathing! My guess is the Iraqi refugees would be beyond grateful for this...in a very real sense: We owe it to them.

Regardless of how you feel about the war we had with Viet Nam or the one we are having over in Iraq, there can be no denying that we have a responsibility not only to our own troops but to those in-country citizens who helped AMERICA because they believed the lies.

President Ford did the right thing.

Another great post....

See for yourself what the corporate media is sitting on. If a picture is worth a thousand words, this site is worth several billion.

WARNING: I hope you have a strong stomach.

http://www.marchforjustice.com/shock&awe.php

Loads of people writing that "you must support the terrorists". How can anyone see those pictures and not say "this madness has got to stop"?

Thanks for posting that link. You're right: it does require a strong stomach.

The citizens of this country need to realize exactly how the world sees us. And exactly what is being done in OUR name.

bush took over the government, at one time Europeans and other countries would separate the American people from the government now how many people in Europe think of us just as bad as this government now?

The whole of DU? Not care? That's just not possible.

Sure, it's a tragedy, its disgusting and a slight against all things good and decent. But I'm not the kind of person to sit and cry about it, nor am I going to sit in a pool of self-flagellation and above all, I'm not going to criticise people for having a different reaction to me.

I think it's appalling that their plight isn't in our media 24/7.

People are really interested in talking about whether or not the give a damn about the Iraqi people, but are less interested in actually talking about the Iraqi people.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

:cry:

I'm sorry if you don't think I care.

Sometimes I just don't see your threads.

But please know that I care.

Thank you for posting reminders about how the Iraqi people are suffering.

We ALL need to be reminded of it.