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My Experience With Acorn

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010)

sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 05:03 AM
Original message

My Experience With Acorn

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/9/18/124152/140

by BooMan
Fri Sep 18th, 2009 at 12:41:52 PM EST

When I started working for ACORN in 2004, I was one of only four white people employed in their North Philadelphia office. The office was in a very run-down tenement on North Broad Street, abutted by an abandoned lot on one side and a black baptist church on the other. The furniture could only described as ratty and unsuitable for anyone's home. Most of the day-to-day work going on was in counseling. The main area of counseling was for people who had been suckered into predatory mortgages that they quickly discovered they couldn't afford. Every day desperate people filed into the office begging for help in avoiding foreclosure.

snip

I don't think it's possible for most white, suburban people to really understand the culture that ACORN operates in. Just the idea that freshly released felons might be some of the most valuable role models in a neighborhood is too foreign for a lot of people to relate to. These kids didn't have prior job experience. They didn't have other jobs in retail or a union available to them. There were no local banks or available credit. Most of them had no picture ID, and even fewer had a government ID. Just getting their paperwork in order so that I could hire them was a nightmare. When their paychecks were late (as they often were), their heat got shut off.

snip

If you walk into this scene out of the lily-white suburbs, you're likely to be shocked at first by what you see. Things are turned upside down. The role models are felons, the clean kids are working the black market. But, spend some time there and you'll quickly adapt and begin to see how there is dignity and fight and pride and ambition and resourcefulness and tremendous faith that sustains these communities in the face of enormous odds. Anyone who had ever seen what I have seen would never, ever, cut off all funding for ACORN or use them as a symbol of black dependency and corruption.

Come down out of your Ivory Towers and stop trying to cover your ass. Most of us got into politics to help people. ACORN is doing that every day as well as they know how.

What a crime it is to try to shut down this organization. And how sad that so few of our Democratic Majority stood up against this vicious attack on the poor. And what exactly was the motivation of the so-called 'citizen journalists'? It's possible they may have violated the law while engaged in their 'sting'. Democrats, instead of jumping on board with the Minority Party who are still managing to control Congress, should have called for an investigation of the organization who is behind this witch-hunt. I really want to belong to a party that stands up for the things they claim to stand for.

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woo me with science

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Sat Sep-19-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message

1. Yes, they reach into the neighborhoods that desperately need help.

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 05:46 AM by woo me with science

When organizations reach out into places so desperate that the role models are felons, that is all the more reason for them to have strong structures in place to ensure that laws *are* followed and corruption does not infect their daily practices. Support for rank corruption as serious as child trafficking should not occur on a systemic basis in ANY government-funded organization.

When anyone can walk into *multiple* ACORN offices and obtain disgusting footage this easily, an investigation is warranted to determine why.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #1

3. Except that according to Acorn

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 06:11 AM by sabrina 1

we did NOT see video of the offices they walked into and were thrown out of. That is the problem. Also, at least one of those who was video-taped, possibly illegally, see my post below, said the video was edited. A claim verified to some extent by the State Attorney's office.

The story these told to him, was that they wanted to help these mythical girls. He suggested, according to him, that they call the FBI. Their reply was 'No, calling the FBI would be bad' He repeated 'calling the FBI would be bad', and that's what they left on tape, editing out what he suggested.

The fraud appears to be with the 'pimp' and the 'prostitute' if it's true that they WERE thrown out of other offices, and that the story they told was not what it appears to be, at least on one of the tapes. Hopefully they will be sued by the workers, as is being reported, and prosecuted by the State Attorney. Then maybe both sides of the story can be heard, rather than the extreme right's and Fox News' version of it, which we all know is self-serving to say the least.

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woo me with science

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #3

4. I see no "except that" here.

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 06:32 AM by woo me with science

Sure, ACORN can sue if they feel they have basis to do so. But there is certainly enough disturbing footage in these *multiple* videos, one person's claims notwithstanding, to warrant a full investigation of ACORN's business practices.

Air it all. My quarrel is not with those at ACORN who think they have a basis to sue. It is with those who keep wanting us to move along because there is nothing to see here.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4

25. The only ones I see right now, sweeping anything under the rug

are the so-called 'citizen journalists' who broke at least one law, have not handed over the tapes so that any editing that was done can be detected. Nor are they forth-coming about who is funding them.

The left appears to be willing to sweep everything the right points to, including precious gems, under the rug.

I'd also like to know if they have tape, or if they erased it, of the offices they went to where they were thrown out. If their intention was to tell the truth, as they claim, then why are we seeing only these tapes when it has now been established that they WERE thrown out of at least one other office, and possibly more.

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woo me with science

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Sat Sep-19-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #25

26. Sigh.

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 06:21 PM by woo me with science

"The left appears to be willing to sweep everything the right points to, including precious gems, under the rug."

I have no idea what that sentence is supposed to mean. I do agree with you that some very loud and ethically challenged partisans on the left seem extremely willing to sweep the contents of these tapes under the rug.

The arguments are moving into the realm of Alice in Wonderland here. I am seeing people who otherwise write coherent sentences seriously suggesting that the the tapes only show bad behavior because of clever editing. Do you seriously believe that? I even saw one particularly imaginative post suggesting that the ACORN employees were actually trying to help the young girls. Sheesh.

Let's be honest here. You have to distort pretty fiercely to come to the conclusion that what is on these MULTIPLE tapes is all innocent and the work of nefarious editing. One might even say that you have to be purposefully blind or delusional.

I suspect you will tell me that you would be just as suspicious of the content of the tapes if the "citizen journalists" were liberals and the organization conservative. Excuse me if I believe strongly that you would be lying. If a liberal organization uncovered videotape of conservative community workers offering to assist in the trafficking and enslavement for sex of young girls from other countries, you would be outraged and wanting a full investigation.

You know, I agreed with you that a full airing is called for, including assessment of whether any laws were broken in obtaining these tapes. However, it is clear that your agenda here is only to clear ACORN and indict the reporters, even if doing so means stretching the truth to the point of making assumptions that are beyond ridiculous based on the evidence we have. I hope they were "thrown out of one office, possibly more." Well, we don't have much evidence of that yet (Where are the multiple police reports? Where are all the notes to superiors documenting what happened?), but even if some does emerge, it still is a serious problem that they encountered corruption in at least FIVE. With one, you could have a bad apples argument. FIVE suggests a serious systemic problem. And there are hints of more tapes coming...

Which is why there are so many posts now trying to sell the ludicrous notion that this is all an editing problem. That's a hell of a lot of editing.

It is difficult to have a conversation when so many refuse to be honest in their arguments.

Good luck with your attempts to prove that these multiple tapes fake corruption where there was none. I hope you DO prove that it was all malicious editing. I hope that the ACORN employees filmed on these tapes were actually trying to rescue the girls and did not actually suggest anything illegal. I also hope we will wake up tomorrow and find peace in the Middle East, all of our healthcare problems solved, and a pony in every child's back yard.

At least we agree that investigations are a good thing, right? That way we can see if you are right, and the advice was innocent and ethical after all.

MOST liberals care that government-funded institutions conduct themselves in an ethical manner, no matter which party they tend to favor. That is why most liberals take the content of the tapes very seriously and want to know more.

So do our representatives in the House and Senate, thank goodness.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #26

31. We do agree on the most important aspect of this

situation. That there needs to be an investigation. I believe that the two who broke the law, should be prosecuted and, the Baltimore State Attorney IS considering doing that as she said in her statement.

But you have mischaracterized my focus anyhow, on why I have serious doubts about the veracity of O'Keefe and Giles.

Up to yesterday, all we had were tapes and Hannity et al's interpretation of them. And we had Vitter, Boehner and the rest of the rightwing, anti-funding-for-poor Republicans in Congress using this as fast as they could, to de-fund the entire organization for what, even at worst, was the bad behavior of a few lower level employees.

Why the rush? Why not conduct a thorough investigation, or wait for the State Attorney to conduct hers? And while I expect nothing from Republicans, who did not see fit to defund BlackWater after evidence of their employees committing murder, engaging in sex with under-age girls and much much more, to see Democrats rushing in to help them out with the same lack of interest in the facts, was just one more disappointment.

I am talking about only tape, the one that features Juan Carlos who has now made a statement and told his side of the story. I have looked at the tape since then, and it is clear that something is wrong with the story being told by Hannity et al. There is not only nothing on that tape that indicates he is engaging in assisting a prostitute ring of under-age girls, there is actually evidence to support his side of the story which with all the editing they've done, they left in for some reason.

If anything, watching that tape, hearing the other side of the story, seeing him say on the tape that he works with District Attorneys and not a thing about engaging in illegal activities, the tape is damning, not to him, but to them.

As for your assumption that if this were a liberal group doing the investigation my position would be different, you do not know me. The reason I am not a Republican is because of what that Party is all about. Dirty tricks are not something I would ever go along with, ever, no matter what party is doing it. And what is happening here falls into that category.

A decent man, with no previous history of wrong-doing, quite the contrary, has been viciously and falsely (look at the video and read his side of the story) smeared, evident even in this heavily edited tape.

If he were a Republican, I would be saying exactly the same thing. I do not condone lies. As for the other tapes, I have not had time to watch them again. It's entirely possible that those employees were just stupid and did go along, I really don't know. But should that bring down a whole organization even if true?

I will be calling the State Attorney on Monday urging her to prosecute those two for violating the law and to subpoena their equipment. That's the least anyone can do when there is a possiblity that a man's life, as he said himself, has been ruined.

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woo me with science

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #31

43. Thank you

for the courtesy of your response. I actually did try to go back to edit mine to make it a little less vitriolic even before you responded, but the time had already expired. I am admittedly angry at what I see as a growing trend on DU toward a partisanship so rabid that people will defend just about anything, as long as there is a (D) after the name of the parties involved.

I will take another look at the Carlos tape and will take a good look at his defense, as you suggest. I have to say, though, that I've watched all of the tapes at least once and was repeatedly sickened by what I saw. The new barrage of posts on DU suggesting that editing will explain away everything on the videos had me furious before I even saw your post, because it is a disingenuous argument; my eyes and the sheer amount of footage tell me otherwise.

I am angry because of my perception that the partisan defense of ACORN here at DU shifts from day to day based on what seems likely to work rather than on any honest assessment of right and wrong and what actually happened. First, the defense was that there was only one office involved. Then it was that a certain employee was just playing along with the charade. Now it is that the video was edited. And on and on and on.

I disagree vehemently with your characterization of the problem as being "even at worst...bad behavior of a few low-level employees." There is extended footage, obtained at multiple offices of ACORN, showing abuse of the organization itself that is criminal and ethically indefensible.

To clarify: This was not an employee or two sneaking off during work hours to patronize prostitutes; these were employees OFFERING THE SERVICES OF ACORN to facilitate blatantly criminal and ethically abhorrent behavior. That this happened in multiple cities and multiple offices suggests not just a few rogue employees taking liberties with what ACORN can offer, but rather an organizational structure so diseased that this sort of request could even for a moment be considered part of the role of ACORN. That should concern us all.

I agree with you that the setup was contrived and the intent malicious; I have no illusions that we are not dealing with partisans who want to bring ACORN down. I also fully expect that the editing will be dishonest, because, of course, they are trying to make the best case they can against ACORN. If all they had uncovered were a few rogue employees doing some mildly questionable things, I would agree with you that the focus should be on protecting ACORN and exposing these "journalists" for what they are.

That's not what happened, though. They produced video after video, in city after city, of ACORN employees OFFERING THE SERVICES OF ACORN for purposes that are corrupt, criminal, and morally abhorrent. These are not just mistakes or personal missteps; this is use of the organization in a way that suggests deep and systemic corruption. Footage as extreme as this should be nearly impossible to find, yet it was found in multiple offices and multiple cities. There is too much here, repeatedly, for dishonest editing to account for all or even most of it.

Anyway, I have rambled on too long. I do respect your passion about this, and I agree with you in many respects. I am at the end of my rope, though, with the suggestion that you are somehow a traitor to the Democratic Party if you are concerned about what is in these videos. EVERYONE should be concerned about what is in these videos.

Right and wrong...ethical and unethical...should not be partisan or political judgments. Maybe ACORN has never aided and abetted the importation and enslavement of children for sex...but the truth is that we honestly have no idea WHAT might have been approved and carried out with Federal tax dollars. Anything is possible within an organization that can produce responses like those seen in these tapes, repeatedly.

A full investigation and housecleaning are in order.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #43

48. I understand

and couldn't agree more:

Right and wrong...ethical and unethical...should not be partisan or political judgments.

And thank you for being willing to look at the last tape and the statements of Juan Carlos. MzMolly's two OPs have most of the links and information on this part of the story.

As far as how many videos there are, I am only aware of three, involving three workers. Two women, and Juan Carlos. I have not yet had time to look at all of them a second time. I did however, see an interview with one woman, an older woman, who impressed me as someone who was sincere, but am not sure if she is one of the women who are on the tapes.

I don't think I have made excuses though, I have tried to look at the evidence and so far, have only thoroughly reviewed the tape and statements that relate to Juan Carlos.

I admit to having a knee-jerk reaction to anything that emanates from the far right when it comes to anyone who is perceived to be 'liberal'. And I am also aware that since the deregulation bill signed by Clinton, ending the regulation on the market by the Glass Steagal Act, that Republicans have targeted funding for the poor. The only issue Clinton held out on was to refuse to get rid of the CRA which provided mortgage assistant to minorities, helping them to buy their own homes. For over 30 years this program was successful, helping many poor minorities to become home-owners and to afford to pay off their mortgages. But the rightwing never gives up and they wanted an end to this law. And have never stopped trying to discredit both the organization and the people who have benefited from their work.

ACORN also was one of the first organizations to try to stop predatory lending, before the entire bubble burst. While I will not argue that there have been problems within the organization, the huge body of good work they have done, also needs to be taken into account.

As far as how many employees were involved, I really don't know. But while they may have claimed they would use ACORN to 'help' the 'pimp' and 'prostitute', there is no evidence whatsoever that they had any authority to do that.

In the end, I agree that the only way to answer all the questions, is to have a thorough investigation of both sides. And thank you also, for your courtesy, even as we have some disagreements.

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iamalevi2

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #3

5. Legal

You've got to be kidding. They have Acorn rep's on tape giving advice about helping to "cover up" illegal activity involving under age girls, and you're more concerned that the tape is legal? Even is one tape is edited, there are four more, and there is no evidence that Acorn threw them out anywhere else or we would have seen it. The real tragedy here is that we have on organization that betrayed the people they originally were formed to help. Open your eyes!

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #5

6. Yes, actually. If there is a law in place, which there is

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 06:43 AM by sabrina 1

are you saying that it should not be abided by? And that as always seems to be the case when it comes to the right. Just ignore the law-breakers while going after ACORN. But even assuming the tapes were NOT edited, as they are accused of being, two employees out of one of the largest community service groups in the country, were stupidly trapped into 'giving advice' about a situation which may not be the one presented in the edited tape. Should that shut down an entire organization? Would the military be shut down because a few of its members committed crimes?

It's not difficult to get enough footage of people talking, and then edit it to look like something else altogether. And hat has been alleged. But before there was even an attempt to do an investigation, and despite the denials by those on tape, there was simply no due process and you, and others mainly on Fox and rightwing blogs, are willing to take it all on face value.

I want the tapes confiscated, as they should be, and those who broke the law, prosecuted, on both sides if laws were broken. But an organization is not responsible for wrong-doing by employees until they learn about it. ACORN has fired them.

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goddess40

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #5

9. Where is your brain

If they had taped themselves getting kicked out of any of the offices do you think they would have shown those tapes? I'd like to see the editing, too. A lot can be faked with tapes and I think these tapes were accepted without full investigation by someone other than FAUX.

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Bluenorthwest

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #5

13. At least one Acorn office called the police to report these people

as they ejected them. So you must be behind on the information. And I could edit you having lunch with your mother in such a way as to make you seem like an angel or a devil. Give me an hour or so on anyone, I can make them look like Al Capone. Clip, snip. Move the reaction shot from here, to there, etc. Such expose tape is edited for one reason and one reason only, to manipulate and deceive. If one is gathering evidence, there is only one reason to tamper with that evidence. And any edit of video 'evidence' is tampering in the extreme. Editing is in fact much more like writing than most people think, it is in fact, a story telling language all its own. In fact, judges have awarded editors writing fees in many circumstances for just that reason- they are creating, not just arranging. Deal with it.

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Johonny

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Sat Sep-19-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #5

19. Should the pimp and his whore be arrested too

They claim to be a prostitute and a whore! They admit to it right there on the tape. Over and over again! Why have they not been arrested? They admit to a crime! I'm totally flabbergasted they've gotten away with this lie that they were just kidding. I believe this man claims to have underage sex slaves being shipped into the country. And yet there's been no criminal arrest! FAUX news gladly has these pedophiles in their studio! Sure they claim to be "just kidding". But how can I be so sure? I see them on the tapes trying to get housing for underage whores. Who am I going to believe them or my own eyes. These people need to be in jail!!!!!!

:crazy:

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #19

21. Yes, I believe they should be at least prosecuted

as they violated the law. See my post below.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 05:58 AM
Response to Original message

2. Baltimore State Attorney's office may prosecute

O'Keefe and Giles, the 'pimp' and the 'prostitute'. I found this on a right-wing blog and, they are sending out word to their followers to contact the State Attorney and 'let them know what you think of this'.

I think we ought to call and encourage them to investigate this. The statement refers to the fact that the video may have been tampered with. A prosecution would force these two to hand over the video for investigation. That corresponds with what at least one of the worker's claimed.

http://insidecharmcity.com/2009/09/11/as-we-predicted-state-may-prosecute-filmmaker-who-made-acorn-video/

STATEMENT OF STATE’S ATTORNEYS OFFICE FOR BALTIMORE CITY RELATIVE TO THE ALLEGED BALTIMORE ACORN INCIDENT

Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent.

If it is determined that the audio portion now being heard on YouTube was illegally obtained, it is also illegal under Maryland Law to willfully use or willfully disclose the content of said audio. The penalty for the unlawful interception, disclosure or use of it is a felony punishable up to 5 years.

Baltimore City State’s Attorney Patricia Jessamy can be reached by email: mail@stattorney.org
or by phone (410) 396-4001.

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Hannah Bell

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Sat Sep-19-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #2

7. kick & call: produce the tapes for independent examination.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #7

32. Thank you,

I intend to call on Monday ~

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gopiscrap

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #2

12. I'll definitely call

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grantcart

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Sat Sep-19-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2

18. good

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drm604

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Sat Sep-19-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message

8. Please see mzmolly's excellent thread on the latest ACORN sting video.

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 08:00 AM by drm604

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6576332

It's heavily edited and at least one statement by the ACORN gentlemen is cut off in midsentence.

If you listen carefully it sounds like they may have been asking for help in saving girls from prostitution rather than trying to prostitute them - at one point they state that they want to get to them before they "bond with the pimp" - but it's been edited to sound ambiguous. At another point the ACORN rep suggests that district attorneys should be involved. O'Keefe says that that's not a good idea and the rep's response is cutoff in mid sentence to make it sound like he may be agreeing with O'Keefe.

The man has now been fired by ACORN. I personally think he may have a defamation case against O'Keefe and others.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #8

15. Thank you, going to read it now

I hope there are law-suits. This story was accepted far too quickly without any questioning of the methods used, or the people behind it.

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rangerdavid

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:09 AM
Response to Original message

10. they shot us all in the foot

and gave the far right lots of ammo to use, makeing all liberals look bad. their actions were foolish, and i cant see why their employees would give such advice, make such statements, and not have a clue that they might be in the process of being set up.

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drm604

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Sat Sep-19-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #10

17. Please see my post #8 in this thread,

and read the thread referenced there. The videos aren't necessarily what they seem.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #10

22. The rightwing deceivers and their cohorts in Congress

did shoot us, well rather the poor people that rely on organizations like Acorn, in the foot. People like David Vitter and Boehner and the rest of the gang who for years, have wanted to cut off any funding for the poor.

As far as making 'liberals look bad', we do that without any help from them.

We run like scared rabbits when the radical, fringe elements of the right yell 'boo' without even stopping to check what we are running from.

This whole story needs to be investigated as there are charges, equally credible, that these tapes have been edited and that at least one of the workers has been badly smeared, and possibly illegally.

It's way past time to start confronting these morons. You are falling for the story THEY are telling without learning more about the organization itself and those who orchestrated this effort.

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bobbolink

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Sat Sep-19-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #10

24. Do you also believe that Obama isn't a citizen, but is a Nazi?

Believing the RW media will lead you down some faulty roads.

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The Magistrate

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message

11. The Article is Definitely Worth Reading, Ma'am

It is clear many commenting here have no clue about the actual situation in which this organization generally operates.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #11

16. Thank you, yes, I thought so too

I agree. I hope more who have had personal experience with them, will step forward and explain some more about the conditions they work under.

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kickysnana

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message

14. I applied for a refinance loan through ACORN in 2003 in St Paul

Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 10:53 AM by kickysnana

The furnishings looked all donated. People bring their babies to work with them. The turn over seemed to be frequent as they had monthly training sessions for new hires.

The loan was through Country Wide and we sent about 5 inches of documentation. Bank statements back three years, pay stubs back three years, current obligations and proof of ownership. The loan was to replace a contract for deed with a balloon that was coming due, a home equity loan through a bank that helped my two sons get their 2 year degrees and $10,000 for needed repairs, a new roof, repairs on a back porch and garage. All together was less than half the amount that the certified estimate of worth.

The loan application expired after 90 days. Countrywide asked for additional documents the first time which were sent. They did not deny the loan they just did not accept it before the time expired. The supervisor of my loan counselor could not get a reply as to why that happened only that we should try again. We did and one more time. Each time we had to be interviewed, additional documentation of current earnings and outstanding debts and one more estimate on market value of the home. All of that ACORN ate because you only paid when the mortgage went through and there was no reason for it not to go through given the lax standards are the time. My son got a bank loan a little over a year later for the home for a lot more.

I was there for several hours over several months and you could hear what was going on in the other offices and I never heard anything odd or bad. This is racism and trying to keep them from doing what they do helping the poor and encouraging them to vote in the hackable Right Wing voting system we are stuck with. When the White House told the progressives to shut up and we did not is this payback along with Maxine Waters inquiry?

The elected Democrats appear to be the most gullible horse traders I have ever seen. They are handing over the keys to our bank accounts, our houses and our jobs for the magic beans of bipartisanship.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #14

20. Thank you for telling us your story.

An excellent post and I think you should make it an OP so that people understand the work they do. There are apparently too many people willing to see this organization shut down without knowing anything about it, except what the likes of David Vitter and Boehner, Hannity, Limbaugh et al have characterized it as.

I will call the State Attorney's office on Monday as I know the rightwing is calling. One thing you have to say for them, they work hard to get what they want, while we on the 'left' appear to be willing to throw everyone they target, under the bus.

Again, thank you, I hope more people who were helped by this organization will begin to demand an investigation of this whole incident. The sad thing is they are well-funded, while as usual, the poor are left to fend for themselves and to watch one more group of people willing to try to help them, to be the victims of a radical rightwing witch-hunt.

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bobbolink

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Sat Sep-19-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #14

23. Thank you, kickysnana! Your story deserves a thread of it's own.

If there was any justice within the 'progressives', you would be on The Ed Show with this story!

I'm sorry for what happened to you, and I'm glad that was assistance there for you when you needed it.

Fie on the magic beans!

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alarimer

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message

27. Democratic-linked organizations get the ax, while Triple Canopy gets a bigger contract.

How is it that Blackwater, Triple Canopy, etc (Republican-linked companies) can operate with impunity, killing Iraqis and American contractors and worse without even so much as an investigation, while ACORN, though they do need to clean some things up a little, gets the ax immediately.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #27

28. And continue to be funded in the billions by Congress.

I am thoroughly disgusted with Congress for going along with what is clearly a witch-hunt. Why has there been no investigation of Goldman Sachs either?

And even if it turned out that a few employees did do wrong, should that shut down a whole organization as they have effectively done with ACORN?

Another thing, look how fast they moved on this, based on some questionable tapes, yet it has taken years, and we still have had no investigation of the 'caging' of voters that we know from the evidence, was directed from the WH.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message

29. Great post. Thanks.

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BlooInBloo

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Sat Sep-19-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message

30. Gotta love DUers working with Beck on this one.

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varelse

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #30

36. It's been a real eye-opener, hasn't it?

:(

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Hannah Bell

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #30

39. ????

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Overseas

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message

33. K&R. I agree with you and was sad to see Democrats

vote to stop funding an admirable organization with a 40-year history of helping the poor.

There were many other ways to make their disapproval of the actions of the few who seemed to comply without hurting the thousands of people ACORN helps.

More afraid of the right wing smearing them in campaign ads than with protecting the needy.

And once again, the ugly GOP gets a "win." Made the wimpy Dems give in again.

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TiberiusGracchus

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message

34. But this is no longer BARACK'S ACORN! Barack's ACORN people LEFT ACORN because of its corruption..

In Chicago this weekend CBS ran a story on why there won't be an O'Keefe/Giles ACORN video in the Presidents own ACORN branch----that's because the ACORN activists that Barack worked with and trained had all turned WHISTLE-BLOWER and left the organization in 2007 and the office is no longer in operation!:

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/ACORN.Illinois.sting.2.1193578.html

The same folks that the President used to work with in ACORN Chicago saw how the undisciplined, poorly-led and in some cases outright corruption in Chicago's ACORN would lead to precisely this sort of mess coming down the line.

They are all now working in a community organization called Action Now, with the same level of passion and professionalism that Obama represents.

I was surprised when the administration seemed to be abandoning ACORN with Gibbs' statement, but if the former Chicago ACORN folks that Barack himself worked with are right, it seems the management at ACORN abandoned us first.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #34

38. One thing I am no longer surprised by, is how quickly Democrats

jump on the Fox News smear wagon.

ACORN employees were secretly recorded giving advice on everything from how to smuggle in illegal immigrants to setting up brothels for teen prostitutes.

Looks like the CBS needs to engage in a little more actual journalism. On the second tape, a tape that has now been discredited by the man who actually did call the police after the fake would-be entrappers left his office.

They might want to read his version of what happened, and review the tape in question, as I have. And not only is there nothing on that tape that comes even close to the what is charged in the quoted sentence above, Juan Carlos actually tells the righwing operatives that he 'works with DAs'. After which O'Keefe asks him to clarify 'you work with District Attorneys'? 'Yes', replies Juan Carlos. Not the answer the undercover rightwing operatives want to hear.

If anyone can point out where in that tape, the ACORN worker agrees to 'smuggle in illegal immigrants to setting up brothels for teen prostitutes', I'd love to see it.

Obama as usual, rather than stand and fight, runs from the controversy. How many of his former friends who helped him get to where he is, is he willing to abandon? How many times can Democrats do this? Surely they know that once this organization is added to Glenn Beck's list of 'taken care of' perceived liberals, they will simply move on to the next. So, when will Democrats start taking a stand?

As the article points out, ACORN is under new management, something that happens in most very big organizaions. ACORN has hundreds of thousands of members. Two of them, maybe, fell for a stupid rightwing trick and the Democratic Party, almost en masse (thank you to the 75 adults who resisted the urge to play it safe and wait to see some actual facts) runs for the hills.

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TiberiusGracchus

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #38

45. But Barack would've fired that guy...Barack's ACORN staff quit in disgust 2 yrs ago...

We can't keep trying to defend the indefensible, especially when it becomes widely known that Barack's OWN ACORN Chapter in chicago closed down because the president and the lead organizers (who worked with Barack) all abandoned the organization because they said they were "bad people".

That's a direct quote from them (http://cbs2chicago.com/local/ACORN.Illinois.sting.2.1193578.html) and they too expressed that if that had happened in Barack's ACORN offices they would've gotten a dramatically different response:

"My people would be holding them while they called the police, because my people would probably be doing something to them that they shouldn't be doing," Dixon, now executive director of Action Now, said.

It's clear that there's been terrible discipline, organization and mismanagement at ACORN's mid to upper-echelons, so much so that it has become a serious political liability for Barack's agenda. We have to let ACORN reform itself and lie low for a couple years or it will become a thorn in 2010.

There's no possible smear to Barack here anyway, the folks that Barack worked with ALL REBUKED ACORN two years before any of this stuff surfaced! If the rethugs thought they were doing any "policing" we can just point out how Obama's own ACORN office had been blowing the whistle years ago.

The ACORN that Barack trained and nurtured has been overrun by the same folks we see in those videos. We need to support the genuine activists that Barack worked with, they're all in a group called Action Now:

http://www.actionnow.org/

In addition to the real services that ACORN was supposed to provide, Action Now does genuine, groundbreaking work including revolutionary microfinancing so that inner city entrepreneurs get assistance and activism against all corruption in Chicago.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #45

50. I would never attempt to defend the indefensible

This statement, for example does not consider the fact that in other offices, their people DID throw these people out, and in at least one office, according to reports, the police were callede.

"My people would be holding them while they called the police, because my people would probably be doing something to them that they shouldn't be doing," Dixon, now executive director of Action Now, said.

The police were also called by Juan Carlos, who appears in the last tape. The police were unable to do anything, they stated, because they did not have enough information on the 'pimp' and his girlfriend.

Obama is a politician. He has certainly not shown a willingness to fight for his old friends when they are attacked by the rightwing. I am not a politician, and I believe that at least one man has been viciously smeared and all the evidence I have seen so far, points to him being the one telling the truth.

I'm not really interested in what politicians have to say about anything. I witnessed a majority of the Democratic Congress being led by the nose by such corrupt hypocrites as David Vitter, Boehner et al into cutting funding for ACORN without a single question as to the truth of the matter. If only they would have cut Bush's funding for his wars so quickly, where actual real and massive corruption and death and torture were going on!

People I respect, otoh, such as Kucinich and Maxine Waters did not rush to judgement, or Nadler so I'll take their lead as up to now, they have pretty much been right about everything.

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Hannah Bell

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #34

40. that's one story; not the only one, i'm sure.

what do these people have in common?

wright
jones
acorn

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dsc

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Sat Sep-19-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message

35. but they are having sex with children

The ridiculous defense of ACORN reminds me of the South Park episode where MAMBLA complains about being misunderstood and it is left to Stan to point out that they were having sex with children. There is no acceptable response to people coming into your office and asking for advice on how to run an underage prositution ring other than get the fuck out of this office.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #35

37. 'No acceptable response to people coming into your

office' ~ how about calling the police? Are you aware that the police were called by Juan Carlos, who appears in the second heavily edited version of the tape, DID call the police after the rightwing dirty tricksters left his office? Clearly you are not up to date on the facts of this story and are accepting the Fox News version.

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Hannah Bell

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #35

41. there is; esp. if that's not what happened.

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Mithreal

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Sun Sep-20-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #35

56. Gather as much information as possible, string them along.

I would play right along to get incriminating evidence.

My god how stupid, just kick them out is ridiculous unless you could see right through them and "knew" they were lying.

How gullible are people?

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dsc

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Sun Sep-20-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #56

57. are you kidding

just look how well this turned out, and that is assuming that is what these people did. ACORN wasn't taping so it would be, from their perspective, at best a he said/ he said situation. It was, at best, collassally stupid to 'play' along with this. At worst, these people weren't playing along but actaully considering helping these people out. Oh, and who else says that throwing the people out was the only good thing to do, ACORN who touts that their other offices did just that.

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Mithreal

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Sun Sep-20-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #57

58. If you saw right through it, then kicking them out was just.

Yet, some here protest that because ACORN does not have its own recording that an edited recording form a hatchet job asshole should be taken seriously. Ever heard there are two sides to a story?

I call the members of Congress gullible to the extreme and DU'ers who believe the story shameful.

I shouldn't have to add that any large organization may have single players that do the wrong thing. Heard of the banking industry, the health care industry or MIC. Lemme see here. An organization is "bad" when a hatchet job story about them is shown on FOX. I will repeat, how stupid, since it seems necessary for me to repeat myself.

Spell check is your friend.

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dsc

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Sun Sep-20-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #58

59. There is pretty much no editting that could have caused that tape to be what it is

without some element of cooperation of the ACORN people being taped. The simple fact is that some number of ACORN employees either played along with, or actively tried to help people who they thought were running a child brothel. The first option makes them idiotic, the second immoral. Either one makes them unfit to be recipients of government money. The second the notion of prostituion, let alone child prostitution, came up the ACORN people should have thrown them out of their office.

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Mithreal

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Sun Sep-20-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #59

60. Wish I could live in a world of such certainty, must be very comforting.

Please don't ever sit on their jury.

The organization and any individuals involved obviously deserve no defense.

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josephmink

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message

42. Acorn is corrupt

End of story.

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The Magistrate

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Sat Sep-19-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #42

44. Care To Provide Specifics, Sir?

"Enquiring minds want to know!"

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TiberiusGracchus

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #44

46. How about testimony from Barack's own Chicago ACORN staffers... who left ACORN in disgust in 2007?

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/ACORN.Illinois.sting.2.1193578.html

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The Magistrate

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #46

49. Factions And Fractures Are Common, Sir

This does not provide warrant for the blanket statement essayed above.

There certainly have been difficulties in the organization, and you will not find me denying that. What is in question is their scope and weight, and that is being greatly and wrongly exaggerated in the frenzy over a provocateur's effort which, it is now quite clear, is not being presented honestly by its authors.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #49

51. I would recommend that comment if I could

As it says so concisely what I have struggled to say with far too many words.

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TiberiusGracchus

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Sat Sep-19-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #49

52. And which 'faction' do you propose we support in this 'fracture'? Barack's or the Videos'?

Regardless of how nefarious their motives may have been, the truth is that the behavior shown in those videos show a pattern that is unacceptable and politically disastrous to the President's agenda.

I thought he was throwing ACORN under the bus too. I thought he was abandoning ACORN like he ditched Van Jones and Yosi Sargent too.

But I live IN Chicago and I saw that report on the news... Obama didn't ditch ACORN. If Barack was still in ACORN, he would've abandoned the organization TWO YEARS ago, when his staffers Denise Dixon and the rest of Chicago ACORN quit in disguest after their allegations of high-level corruption were ignored.

I suppose it's possible you hold a lower standard than the President's Chicago ACORN when it comes to the level of professionalism he felt should be expected out of a serious activist. But fortunately for the rest of us the ACORN organization that Barack Obama helped form in Chicago held their personal integrity above ideological expedience and refused to have anything to do with the embezzlement and mismanagement they saw happening in ACORN ___TWO FULL YEARS___ before O'keefe and Giles came around.

I agree we shouldn't be too eager to throw ACORN to the hounds, but at what point do we start saying that we won't tolerate the sort of incompetent mismanagement we saw in those videos?

As far as Barack's ACORN was concerned, that point was back in 2007.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #52

53. Which videos are you talking about?

The president's agenda should include justice shouldn't it? We know now that at least one person in those videos has been completely mis-represented and probably has a case against the rightwing provocateurs which I hope sincerely he pursues. Are you in favor of the right smearing a decent man who has apparently spent a good part of his life doing good for others?

As for the president, he seems to have had to distance himself from an awful lot of people which says to me that either he has very poor judgement, or those people are being wrongfully smeared as a way to get to him, at least some of them, and the president has decided it's in his own best interests to simply walk away from them.

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The Magistrate

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Sun Sep-20-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #52

54. Do You Have Any Problem, Sir, With Opposing The Radical Right?

The choice you urge on me is not necessary. The people who withdrew from the parent organization did properly: it was a reasonable response to the disclosure of details of an embezzlement some years ago. Around that time the entire A.C.O.R.N. organization went through a shaking up, including an investigation by outside counsel hired by the organization to advise on better management of what is a very sprawling collection of related bodies.

Whether 'incompetent management' is seen in those videos, however, is by now less than clear. We know for a fact now that the provocateurs have presented only a severely edited selection of their encounters with A.C.O.R.N. workers. We know that on several occasions A.C.O.R.N. workers contacted law enforcement over the stories they were told. We know that one A.C.O.R.N. worker taped certainly did not believe what she was told by them, and deliberately said things to them which they leapt on without investigation to make false charges a murderer was in the employ of the organization. We have the word of a Maryland State's Attorney's office that the video represented as being made in Baltimore appears to be edited. Taking this with the fact that the provocateurs engage for a living in making and editing videos, particularly in adding sound, we have some reason for suspicion concerning whether the videos were altered to present a desired view of the incidents. The provocateurs will not make the raw footage available, nor appear outside the friendly venue of Fox News, where they might be subjected to cross-examination or confronted with results of investigation into them. At this point, Sir, put bluntly, it is difficult to say what, if anything, the videos presented by the provocateurs 'reveal' about A.C.O.R.N. and it employees.

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sabrina 1

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Sat Sep-19-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #42

47. Well, now I'm thoroughly convinced n/t

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mntleo2

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Mon Sep-21-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #42

63. You are full of it!

...United Healthcare is corrupt. Banks are corrupt. Big business is corrupt. Polluters that poison entire areas are corrupt. People who only pay slave wages that get filthy rich off the backs of the poor, are corrupt. <coughing and saying "Waltons">

Acorn is not corrupt. To have even an inkling as to what work they do with the people they are trying to support, in the atmosphere and lack of support they have to endure, then nobody could say Acorn is corrupt. Their critics should instead hang their head in shame that agencies like Acorn have to exist since lazy, selfish idiots sit back and criticize instead of getting up off their fat asses and helping their fellow Americans who live in this filth that THEY studiously ignore.

True corruption causes massive damage and these ones who have caused this damage, THEY are corrupt. What damage has a prostitute done to anyone who paid her? The john who is cheating on his wife? SHE did not make that, HE did by voluntarily seeking her out and using her (and dissing his wife by cheating on her). If anyone can say a prostitute did the same damage as fouling an entire river so that babies are born without a spine is the same, THEY are ignorant monsters.

We should legalize prostitution and for that matter all drugs. Half of the "shocked" white people about this video have probably paid for sex themselves. Whether in porn, or a red light district. Whether in return for a "favor" or whatever. This should not be a crime. And when it is legalized ~ SURPRISE! Crime disappears!

If Acorn had given this same advice in Nevada, where prostitution is legalized, guess what? They wouldn't have done a damn thing wrong.

Give the "shocked" crap up. Most of these idiots on FAUX News and their idiotic viewers are hypocrites. They see nothing wrong with robbing poor people blind and some greedy person getting rich from outrageous rents and mortgages. These idiots think it is "smart" to pay hard working people little or nothing so they don't even make enough to eat or keep warm. They support laws and policies that decimates entire neighborhoods and families. They then get all in shock when someone wants to make an honest living. And I do mean HONEST. I have known a few prostitutes and they would leave a greedy bank executive to shame as they were far more decent people than any selfish, privileged rich people I have ever known. Many have had nightmare lives and few other ways to go that would support them.

GRRR!
Cat In Seattle

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dotymed

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Sun Sep-20-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message

55. I do not know much about ACORN

but, I agree, they should have an investigation before they
cut off funding to this organization. Acorn is an institute to
help poor people, and that is why the Repubs were so eager to
stop their funding. how dare the poor (lazy) citizens be
helped! It is supposed to be, in America, that we are innocent
until proven guilty. Some (fox "news") doctored
tapes, do not make a compelling argument to find an
organization guilty. Millions of people live below the poverty
level. 1% of Americans own more wealth than the lower 95% of
Americans combined. President Obama's administration has
caved, endlessly, to the insane (minority) RW'ers in this
country. Just to placate them. He needs to placate the
majority of Americans, the ones who elected him for Change.
Instead we get more of the same, a relative handful of crazies
get their way while the (saner) majority get thrown under the
bus. Do it right Mr. President, call for an investigation of
the facts before you cut off funding for Acorn.

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mntleo2

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Sun Sep-20-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message

61. Shocker here: I could give a shit to whom Acorn advised ...

...As "Booman" says, in the ghetto things are upside down. The felons who have climbed out of the gutter and improved themselves ARE good role models. I could give a flying f**k as to this advise given to the prostitutes. You ever try to find a job with a livable wage or decent affordable housing to rent when you are poor and have a record and poor credit? Almost impossible. About the only living many of these young men and women can make is on the street.

A bunch of privileged white people who have *no* idea what it is like. They prefer to be "shocked, shocked I tell you!" when in fact their practiced ignorance contributes to these conditions by not supporting a better safety net and ending discrimination, they are a big part of the problem.

No I do not want women to be prostitutes or men to be drug dealers, but until the issues surrounding poverty are really addressed, the prejudice against not only the outright hatred of people of color, but of the poor in general needs to be addressed. It should be no surprise that people who work in the ghetto are used to seeing it.

Gawd what a bunch of clueless privileged white idiots!

Cat In Seattle

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sabrina 1

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Mon Sep-21-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #61

62. Very well said, thank you mntleo2 n/t

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