Pardon me, but i don't think not knowing who the first Pres was

is important to educating our children. I am more concerned about whether or not our children can read and read with understanding, think and think critically, reason, count and perform basic math problems, know the principles of democracy and know when they are actually being practiced as opposed to being preached; have powers of discernment and can use them to tell when they are being lied to or fooled in some other way; know and understand compassion and practice, know and understand oppression and don't practice it; know and understand and practice the principles of kindness, fairness, tolerance, and peacmaking. I realy don't care if they know who was the first President of the US but I do want them to know who were the last five Presidents whose policies directly affect their lives. None of that bullshit that the media is talking about is or was of any value in finding and keeping a job, taking care of a family. They are making too big a deal out of the number of kids who don't know George Washington was the first President.

In order to keep the fascists from gaining control - it IS important to know history. And pointing out that too many children do not know who the first president is reflects on just how BAD our education system is - thanks to Republicans.

The first thought in my mind, as well. Being "old school," I think I received a pretty fair education in history during my youth, but there is so much more that could have been taught. For kids not even to be taught the basics of American history seems really negligent to me.

the United States came to be and the principles that the nation were founded upon. that perspective is desperately needed now after the last 9 years.

If you don't know that then you don't know how we got there in the first place.

http://www.marshallhall.org/hanson.html

History is important. It gives everything context. Without history one wouldn't know socialist from fascist.

Thank you.

I felt like doing this but I was certain that a dogpile would occur. Even here on DU the Articles Of Confederation are probably little known. Most will probably call Hanson and the others minor or insignificant due to the length of time served or lack of historical reference to accomplishment; but, dammit it is our history and it was a time of great change and these men did our country a great service.

:patriot:

Kids need to BOTH have critical thinking skills AND know some basic facts about their own history and the world they live in.

Besides the pathetic ignorance, in and of itself, of not knowing George Washington was the first US President, it's a huge indicator that very little education of any type must be getting through to a kid who doesn't know that, if such a basic fact remains elusive.

not knowing a simple answer to a simple question is a basis from which to judge the lack of basic standards used to help a society obtain knowledge, reason, and understanding. In other words, it has nothing to do with the answer to the question, but everything to do with the inability to know the answer to the question.

Hey kids do not confuse this person with our first President.

Okay. Also encourages them to eat oatmeal.

:shrug:

Unreccing this.

nwmhtt

They both knew it instantly, no hesitation.

If they can know who the first POTUS was, high school students should know it also.

NCLB has ensured the kids are studying to pass the tests mandated under NCLB. There is no time for education or teaching values.

If you want to hear first-hand what's wrong with education, spend some time with a dedicated teacher. If you want to see the affects of NCLB, have a conversation with any public school student age 7-17. I know several kids who finished high school after NCLB was implemented and a couple who have been in since the beginning. On whole, their ignorance (in every subject) is shocking.

As to the motivation behind NCLB, educated voters generally vote (D), uneducated voters tend to vote against their own interests. Look at the Teabaggers.

From the beginning of NCLB, responsible teachers have been complaining about "teaching the test". Should we be surprised at the result?

It makes sense that highschool kids don't know the "Basics" I guess considering who their parents chose to Represent them..

Some folks will be confused into thinking you were seriously arguing that knowing about how this country was founded, and by whom, is worthless information. :sarcasm:

and any useful skill will be handy. The most important skills are critical thinking, which requires that one has some factual data to think about, and research, which requires creativity, tenacity, and a finely tuned shit detector employed in finding that data.

That the important skills are reading and ability to comprehend it and critical thinking.

It would seem with just those skills, one could educate ones self about any other subject and acquire any skill one wanted to learn.

Which is why learning to read was illegal for so many for so long.

You're setting the bar on the ground, not simply "too low."

Knowing who the first president was, knowing when and where the constitution was written, knowing the Founding Fathers were - these are important things to know, and school is the place students should learn them.

Do you really expect kids to learn the dynamics or democratic action and not be able to learn something as simple as "the guy on the one dollar bill is George Washington, the first president"?

First, they have to master INFORMATION. Then we teach them IDEAS later.

... until I read your past posts. But if you can formally link swine flu with milk, then more power. But that thing about the Fed, that's pretty left field, even for conspiracy theorists.

As to the assertion that only the last, say 5 presidents matter, let's use a math reference. It seems like your zero starts in the present and you count towards the past. If you always shift your number line every time there's a new president, do you then forget about the former number 5? Why not be like everyone else and start the presidential number line with GW, number 1?

Info about GW is burnt into a fraction of a brain cell. Kids are fond of "who was the first this or that" questions. They take these things in like a sponge takes in water. From a developmental standpoint, these tidbits of info are the easiest for little ones to remember and understand. As more and more information, things like words and numbers, are amassed, then understanding and critical thought start to take root. But the brain is like a computer, garbage in, garbage out. Nothing in, nothing out.

In conclusion, I'm tempted to ask what your favorite reading material is and doesn't that contain even some trivial stuff to support their thesis? And honestly, I don't see where you're coming from.

born Americans know too? In order to learn their history, children will already have had to learn those things you stipulate.

Not a single county in Oklahoma went for the Democratic candidate for President in either 2004 or 2008. You think that represents any kind of "critical thinking," "reason," "powers of discernment," etc.?

Here are the electoral maps for 2004 and 2008 by county, both completely red:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Oklahoma,_2004

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oklahoma_Presidential_Election_Results_by_County,_2008.svg

"Is our children learning?"

Having a shared sense of where we've been, helping to inform the present and giving us direction for the future. While the ability to solve basic math problems helps an important part of brain development, building a narrative for the past works another important brain function. Knowing about George Washington will probably not help you find a job, but there is also value in learning for learning's sake in that a well-rounded education and a well-exercised brain pay off in a variety of ways in terms of life enrichment and personal fulfillment. Reducing every aspect of life to a dollars-and-cents priority is part of what has brought our nation to its present pretty pass.

My dad possessed measurable human intelligence, and that more than anything probably explains why he got out of there so quickly once he turned eighteen.

Oklahomans couldn't manage putting a dome on their capitol building, but they did just fine with an oil rig on capitol grounds. That says a lot right there.

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???

How can one dispel the myth that the rw floats that "the US is a christian nation" when they don't have a basic understanding of the simplest of facts of our history? Not knowing basic facts is one of the largest reasons why those who peddle lunacy to rw voters/shouters are able to be effective at getting mobs to raise their fists and repeat lies. A few years ago my SIL "informed" me that Liberals were trying to take god out of the constitution. When I corrected her, that god was not in the constitution, she appeared completely confused and walked away.

there ie more to life than the 'mechanics" of math and reading comprehension

you need to understand the world in which you live in order to put that which you read into context

that there were no Presidents before the sacred jellybean messiah himself appeared upon the earth..........

George Washington was? Why does it have to be one or the other?

See posts #1 and #21

It's boilerplate knowledge. If they slept through their school years, they'd still get it through osmosis, from culture, from TV, from the freaking portraits in the post office. Except, somehow it they missed it.

I was recently called in for jury selection. The prosecutor asked us, who was president during the Civil War? The 20-something 2 seats down didn't know. The 40-something lady next to me thought it was Thomas Jefferson. I got to be Star of the Class for a moment. What chance does some poor accused slob have with a jury that ignorant? How can anyone be sure "presumption of innocence" isn't a whole new concept to them (and judging from their responses that day, it was. Most thought voir dire was a poll on punishment for the guy)?

Not knowing Washington is an indication of wider ignorance. It'd be a rare soul who was as well rounded as you describe and didn't know our first president.

The Union President or the Confederate one?

Anyone who knew either would be better informed than someone who thought it was Thomas Jefferson or I Dunno.

We can't clutter up our little brains with all those darn facts. Ouch. They could explode! And reading all those books is so boring. We could be done with school in a couple of years-- basic math, obedience training (to keep a job), homemaking, and how to share and we're all done. Then we can be free to watch more TV and have fun. Not be forced to learn about history and those way-old Founding Fathers. Who cares who's on the dollar bill, I'm not gonna be quizzed when I spend it.

Next they'll be wanting us to know how to find Japan on a map! I mean really! How very inconsequential!
They might even expect students to try and spell Hiroshima. Gawd, what an oppressive move. Who cares who dropped two atomic weapons on urban populations? That was all in the dusty old past.

And that Darwin guy-- who needs him either? I mean gee whiz, when or how life began doesn't affect our daily lives much. If I can find a job and take care of my family believing the earth is 6,000 years old, well then by golly, I'm good to go!

It is fundemental to our responsibility as citizens to understand how our government originated.

By boys not only know who Washington is, but they have a very sophisticated understanding of Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, the whole lot.

You can really get my oldest boy - he just turned 15 - into a fine lather by discussing Andrew Jackson and James K. Polk. (He despises both of them.)

Knowing history is the responsibility of all citizens. How on earth, for instance, can one have an opinion on the courts without understanding this?

Because I really can't see why you'd feel the need to make such a vociferous defense of the ignorance of High School students in the state. Your defense of this rather sad stat from the state is really weak.

I might add, people who don't know facts aren't prone to thinking for themselves as they're easily swayed by liars and charlatans. Ignorance is not your friend.

Surely no one really believes that teaching children about the founding of our country is not important?

they're not mutually exclusive. In fact, not knowing who the first President was, would be indicative of a poor education, generally, and a poor education in terms of reading and writing, in particular. So, while it might seem less relevant on the face of it, it is really relevant.

After all those who forget it repeat it without erring.

Case closed.

on Jay Walking when asked that question. :-)

The guy married to the First Lady, Barbara Streisand.

A majority of those children were ignorant of far more than the name of our first official President.

http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11141949">link

If no one at all agreed with my stupidity, I probably would as well. :eyes:

We work, gently and carefully, on all that you have decided is important.

Baby steps, and more gently, because teachers who rock the boat are at risk.

Teachers are everyone's favorite scapegoat.