"I've never done anything wrong in my life." "They destroyed my family." ~ a tearful Juan Vera

Juan Carlos Vera, who claims he was trying to help people he thought were in danger, was fired by ACORN based upon the contents of a heavily edited, questionable video which can be viewed here:

http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/17/acorn-video-prostitution-scandal-in-san-diego-ca/

Ironically, the video appears to bolster Mr. Vera's version of events. There is one statement that remains on the video, in spite of all the editing, that I feel substantiates the story presented by Mr. Vera. About 4 minutes into the video, Hannah Giles states ~



Mr. Vera said he was trying to help people in danger. The statement by Giles above, leads me to believe he's being truthful in this assertion.



I believe Juan Vera. I would like to see ACORN reinstate his position until a full investigation (including a review of all unedited tape recordings involved) can be completed. If you agree, please give this thread a K and R.

Original thread about the firing can be viewed HERE:

The original thread about the integrity of the video evidence can be found HERE

;) Thanks to all of you for taking an interest.

I'm really saddened over this. I'm not sure why so many are willing to believe everything these people say, considering?

the fact that the "filmmakers" won't go on any other news outlets says a lot, IMHO. They won't submit themselves to any questioning other than the douches at Fox.

Not once at Fox is the incident in Philadelphia mentioned.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142735/police_report_filed_by_acorn_exposes_false_claims_in_gotcha_vids/

satirist?

http://biggovernment.com/author/jokeefe/

"His most recent project is Veritasvisuals.com, a collection of satirical short films on newsworthy topics, featuring ridiculous situations and demands."

Yet when one visits the vertias website it says at the top "Veritas Visuals Truth In Action". So, is the ACORN "expose" truth or satire? The ACORN videos are all posted at the website which is supposedly a "collection of satirical short films."

Begs the question, was Juan Carlos Vera fired due to bad satire?

Could you PLEEEEZ be an investigative reporter, and actually bring this stuff to the attention of the 'Murkin people?

Really, you have been doing an exemplary job on this!

:applause:

too kind. I do hope that a handful of actual reporters will at the very least, give a voice to the other side of the story, however.

When you're used to being invisible, seeing people working this hard on your behalf is stunning.

I'm really grateful.

:pals:

Being poor is awful, but the isolation and being ignored are horrible.

It means so much to see people like you taking this seriously.

Why isn't this on Air America, or any of the other "liberal" media???

DU-er who's saddened that the spin has been so easily accepted. And that people like Mr. Vera have lost their jobs based upon shoddy, often illegally obtained evidence like the video in question.

Thanks for your enthusiastic support bobbolink. :hi: Perhaps someone of importance will seek the full truth?

Very sad, but very true. I've learned a lot about this society in the process of being homeless, and it ain't pretty.

So, you are appreciated, because it really does hurt to be ignored.

Now, to get this to be important on the "progressive" media! Please, write or call Ed Schultz, Olbermann, Thom Hartman, etc., and let them know their silence on this is very upsetting!

A DUer did email me and let me know that Joe Conason spoke out strongly on this, and that really helps to know that.

Let's agitate the rest of 'em! Let's make this an issue!

Those two Leadership Institute operatives led that man to believe they were bringing girls over to the US in order to protect them. ACORN was wrong to fire him.

death with somebody on one issue and then fine that this "bitter" interlocutor and you now are the only two people left on an island.

If you title a thread with a twist in the meaning you can find people who normally oppose you jumping on the thread without reading the OP only to find them shyly only to find them returning to read the thread and change their reply.

It is an interesting place.

But the familiar corps of 'antis' from last week seem conspicuously absent here.

:kick:

The more I hear about this the more it smells and it didn't smell too kosher to begin with.

any kind of justice we can muster. Even if it only amounts to getting the other side of the story out, here.

:kick:

:hi:

Poor guy looks like he's been railroaded.

:yourock:

Unlike in movie plots, where you can take matters into your own hands and foil evil plots and everything works out in the end, in real life you should call the cops. Did Mr. Vera ever alert the police about what he believed was going on?

He said he listened to them, believing they were in danger - period.

I know there's a lot of mistrust of police in low income communities but this was a clear case where they needed to be brought in.

On edit, I mean assuming that Vera believed what they said.

do you? You don't know if he had enough info to call police. You don't have the entire story, yet you assume that average citizens, because they are poor would rather help pimps than police?

See here: http://www.10news.com/news/20975217/detail.html

Sounds like he did the right thing after all.

I fully agree. I did email the San Diego office with some of this info. I highly doubt it will do any good. But, I tried.

One would think at worst, they'd suspend him with pay, pending an investigation?

Do you have more info Hansel?

Thank you. :hi:

see post #36

On edit, here: National City police confirmed that Vera contacted them, but said there was not enough information about the couple to file a formal report.
...

http://www.10news.com/news/20975217/detail.html

... told the police, when they contacted him a few days later, as followup, that he thought the thing was a hoax.

Sounds like Vera's story is accurate. (He'd contact the police if he was looking to help smuggle prostitutes?)

He called the police, when they followed up later he said that he thought it was a hoax. That really says it all, doesn't it? That poor man.

WHY WAS THIS MAN FIRED? This is an injustice. I think what upsets me the most about this is the people who have lost their jobs because of it. This little prick O'Keefe ought to be ashamed of himself. Does he even consider the consequences his actions have on other people's lives?

There need to be lawsuits. If ACORN doesn't want to sue then people like Vera need to. There must be firms out there that would take this on either pro bono or on contingency.

...

Flanked by two others associated with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, Juan Carlos Vera told the people crowded inro the tiny ACORN office that because of a language barrier, the people seen in the video were able to easily confuse him. In broken english, he said the pair came to his office asking about housing. Vera said the man explained to him that the woman was a prostitute, and he was trying to get her away from her pimp.

"The skinny guy told me I want to buy a house because, this is what happened, this is my girlfriend," Vera said. "And her pimp, they don't want to let her go."

As the video shows the couple began asking Vera about smuggling girls across the border. But Vera said he was only trying to help the pair, who he said told him they needed to get some young women out of Mexico. Vera said he offered to call his cousin, a National City Police officer, but the couple turned down the offer.

"I say okay, I can help you. We can, I don't know call the police. And when they start the video I say that," Vera said. "Put the video completely and I say that."

Throughout his rescitation of what happended, Vera proclaimed his innocence. About the snippet of video that shows him asking how much the woman charges for her services, Vera said.

"The lady say you wanna know how much I charge, you wanna know? Yeah, how much do you charge? And the guy say, you want something from my girlfriend? And I say no, no. I'm just curious, that's it," Vera said. "And they don't put that in the video, they don't put that. These people left and when they left, I have a cousin that's police and I call."

During the interview, ACORN's David Lagstein said his organization continued to support Vera.

We"ve concluded that he did his best to deal with a bizarre and challenging situation," Lagstein said. "His intent was to help people that he thought were in danger. After the incident he called his cousin who works for the National City Police department and expressed concern about this interaction."

...

Sorry, it's a Fox News link: http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-acorn-scandal-folo,0,3433216.story

Thanks for this info. :hi:

:hi:

The entire charade is disgusting. :(

If so, at least the media there in National City are questioning the disparate versions of the two: http://www.dipity.com/timeline/Acorn-Video-San-Diego

(This is a timeline, go to the Sep 17, 2009 11:19 PM video)

:wow: I'm glad to see at least one organization asking for an unedited version of the tapes!

"National City police confirmed that Vera contacted them, but said there was not enough information about the couple to file a formal report."
...

http://www.10news.com/news/20975217/detail.html

Pathetic.

I'm being a pest about this, but the Baltimore State Attorney issued a statement saying she is considering prosecuting O'Keefe and Giles for violating the law there. She is getting flack from the right so she might need to hear from more people. Here's her contact information for anyone who would like to call:


Baltimore City State’s Attorney Patricia Jessamy can be reached by email: mail@stattorney.org
or by phone (410) 396-4001.

...

Vera said he was told the woman needed to escape her controlling pimp, who wouldn't let her start a new life.

Immediately, Vera said he offered to call the police but the filmmaker quickly stopped him.

"Don't call the police because I'm gonna be a lawyer," O'Keefe said in the video.

After the pair left the building, Vera said he called the National City Police Department.

National City police confirmed that Vera contacted them, but said there was not enough information about the couple to file a formal report.
...

http://www.10news.com/news/20975217/detail.html

see link #42 above

not get in the country illegally.

He claims he was easily confused because of the language barrier, etc.

Thanks Emit.

the video. Links are at #36 or #37 and #42

In the video, out of the blue, Vera says something about being a lawyer - in Vera's account, the 'skinny guy' says something about wanting to become a lawyer. And then Vera says something about the DA - and you can hear O'Keefe says "That's not good." Why would Vera offer help from the DA if he was trying to do something illegal?

I'm gonna watch it again, because I am not articulating what I want at the moment - my memory is too faulty of the video 'cause I watched it a while back. But, I will post again to explain what I'm trying to say. Bottom line, something seems fishy - and do not forget, O'Keefe had many resource available for his editing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6586911&mesg_id=6586911

The "Voiceover and Audio" services caught my eye.

If O'Keefe and Giles told Vera that there were El Salvadorian girls coming into this country, and they said they wanted to protect these girls, I can fully understand some of the comments Vera said that were taken out of context and put into that edited tape. It is plausible that it was edited to take his words and totally twist them around.

It is now abundantly clear this Gentleman has been dealt with most unjustly.

see link #42

On edit, here:

During the interview, ACORN's David Lagstein said his organization continued to support Vera.

We"ve concluded that he did his best to deal with a bizarre and challenging situation," Lagstein said. "His intent was to help people that he thought were in danger. After the incident he called his cousin who works for the National City Police department and expressed concern about this interaction."

...

Sorry, it's a Fox News link: http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-acorn-scandal-folo,0,3433216.story

for another lying, heavily edited right wing smear.

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/9/18/124152/140

"When I started working for ACORN in 2004, I was one of only four white people employed in their North Philadelphia office. The office was in a very run-down tenement on North Broad Street, abutted by an abandoned lot on one side and a black baptist church on the other. The furniture could only described as ratty and unsuitable for anyone's home. Most of the day-to-day work going on was in counseling. The main area of counseling was for people who had been suckered into predatory mortgages that they quickly discovered they couldn't afford. Every day desperate people filed into the office begging for help in avoiding foreclosure.

I worked on the political side. At first, I was assigned Delaware County. Later on, I took over the Montgomery County operation, which I led right through election day. My job was to identify areas of Montgomery County that had at least 65% Democratic registration. Then I hired kids off the streets of North Philly and trained them in voter registration and get out the vote strategies. Each day I would dispatch a bunch of vans to the designated areas of Montgomery County to register voters. We never asked people to vote for Kerry or to register as Democrats, and we turned in every card (after vetting them for fraud) even when the cards were for Republicans. We relied on my research to make sure we were registering more Democrats than Republicans. The goal was to achieve a 7:3 ratio, so that we'd net four votes for every 10 registrants. This was all compliant with election law.

Three of my co-workers (people with the same job description) were fresh out of prison. They were relatively young black men from North Philly who had done their time and were happy to have full employment and to give something back to their community. Mainly, they acted as very effective mentors to the at-risk kids that were coming in in response to the jobs we were offering.

I don't think it's possible for most white, suburban people to really understand the culture that ACORN operates in. Just the idea that freshly released felons might be some of the most valuable role models in a neighborhood is too foreign for a lot of people to relate to. These kids didn't have prior job experience. They didn't have other jobs in retail or a union available to them. There were no local banks or available credit. Most of them had no picture ID, and even fewer had a government ID. Just getting their paperwork in order so that I could hire them was a nightmare. When their paychecks were late (as they often were), their heat got shut off. "

More at link.

I agree that the statement about the pimp is completely unexplained in the context of the tape that we see. But, his agreeing to help the girls cross the border is a problem for ACORN. The news media should demand that the full tapes be released and that they be examined by an expert for any editing.

I respect your opinion Jim. Can you direct me to the portion of the tape where he says he'll help smuggle people into the country?

I'm watching again to be sure I didn't miss anything. I don't see him offering help smuggling anyone to the US. I see him listening and asking questions trying to obtain specific info. Perhaps to inform police? In this particular conversation, he said they work with lawyers and the D.A. He said he's an attorney in Mexico. So what specifically is he offering to do? Turn the girls over to authorities for help? Help them obtain citizenship before they're deported? Sounds possible to me. :shrug: There is also some iffy editing at about 2:30 right in the middle of this conversation. Why?

Further, I found the line of questioning racist. "As a latino male, can you tell us how to smuggle ..."

Also, you can't see Vera's lips moving in the tape. They could have dubbed in anything with that kind of video quality.

I thougt he said that when I first watched the tape - it was yesterday or the day before, so I may have just forgotten.

:hi:

"The news media should demand that the full tapes be released and that they be examined by an expert for any editing."

:hi:

it remains the case that he's saying to highly suspicious strangers. He can and probably will argue that he was playing along to get more information about these planned illegal activities. Having seen the tape, I find it somewhat likely he hasn't even understood what these filmmaker-stingers are proposing to him.

that he supposedly answered "yeah" to a question about helping to assist in crossing the border. But this does not appear to fit the story line about "shipping containers" noted in the same conversation? Also, and again you can't see his lips move. His face is blurred, yet the calendar behind him is fairly clear as are the cars and signs pictured, outside.

I just don't think the story fits the way it's been put together by the media and/or this group, thus far.

:shrug:

and reputation.

not "thanks for your help." Not "thanks for the smuggling tips" but thanks for "sitting with us." Later Vera mentions an immigration event and invites Giles and O'Keefe to attend. Again why? To help the so called girls who are coming to the US obtain proper citizenship? O'Keefe inserts a comment near the end of the tape about bringing people across the border, but no where does Vera imply that he's going to help anyone do any such thing. He simply chuckles and cracks a bad joke about trusting "the Mexican people."

Again, I believe that Mr. Vera is being truthful when he said he was simply listening to these people and trying to find a way to help via legal channels. He made the mistake of being nice and entertaining a conversation with the satirists. But that is his only crime IMHO. Being too kind to people who ultimately didn't deserve it.

and let the man work. I believe him. K&R! :kick:

Since he was so concerned about the MSM's lack of coverage of the videos last week, I hope he makes sure his viewers get the whole story.

:hi:

countdown@msnbc.com

Keith also has a diary on Daily Kos

rachel@msnbc.com

put together all the info you have and send it in.

By the way :yourock:

in California.

I hope someone will take an interest and at the very least demand full, unedited video tapes of this and other incidents.

:kick:

voiced over the thing, it's cut up, Vera is inexplicably playing with an i-phone the whole time, his responses are inaudible. I wouldn't wish this kind of star chamber "journalism" on anybody.

Well said!

did, right? I'm sure.

linked by MzMolly in her other OP on this. You can find it here:

http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/17/acorn-video-prostitution-scandal-in-san-diego-ca/

I tried to transcribe it (maybe I'll finish later if I have time) but to me, the most significant parts of the conversation that appear to back up Juan Carlos, occur starting at around 4.41 where the 'prostitute' says:

'I want to get them before the pimp has time to bond with them'

Juan Carlos then says at 4.47 'I work with ... and I couldn't catch that word, maybe someone else can.

But at 6.10 on the video, right after they ask him what he will need to help them and he answers 'the location' he tells them that 'we' he works with the 'DAs'. That got their attention and the guy asks if he means 'District Attorneys'. He answers 'Yes'.

Then the guy says 'that is not good' and Juan repeats that sentence 'that is not good' which he clearly is absorbing as their opinion, not his own.

With all the editing they didn't take that part out, where he clearly tells them he works with Dist. Attorneys. Now, if that is true, there will be evidence of ACORN working with DAs. The tape is edited so we do not know what story they told him. But I listened carefully and not once did I hear them say they intended to put those 'under-age girls' to work as prostitutes nor did I hear any evidence on it, that Juan was helping them to do so.

There absolutely needs to be an investigation of this and before they have a chance to destroy any tapes they have, a subpoena issued to confiscate them.

Baltimore's State Attorney has issued a statement saying she is considering filing charges against Giles and O'Keefe. I hope Juan files a suit against them also. The rightwing noise machine are calling Patricia Jessamy to 'dissuade' her from filing charges. I thin that will be the best way to get to the truth of this so if anyone wants to contact her, I am including her email and phone #. Something is very wrong with this and a real investigation is needed, imo.


Baltimore City State’s Attorney Patricia Jessamy can be reached by email: mail@stattorney.org
or by phone (410) 396-4001.

:hi:

When I was listening to it I was thinking they're being very "upfront" about using the words "prostitute", "pimp", etc - but, then are seemingly reticent about defining what they're doing. It could just as well been a conversation about intervention or rescue - that was badly edited.

Also - the part where Carlos says "I'm a lawyer" makes no sense in the context of the tape. It's like a total non-sequitar until you learn that an allegedly edited out part where the "pimp" supposedly tells Carlos not to call the police because he's going to be a lawyer.

"Also - the part where Carlos says "I'm a lawyer" makes no sense in the context of the tape. It's like a total non-sequitar until you learn that an allegedly edited out part where the "pimp" supposedly tells Carlos not to call the police because he's going to be a lawyer."

Posted this in the othjer thread by mistake, doesn't matter though as what I said still stands in this thread, too.

It's good to see that there's some of us who are looking at this objectively, this thread is proving that point. Sometimes I just can't believe that DU has so many people who get so easily sucked in by Breitbart & Faux's agenda without thinking about it critically 1st.

BTW have you seen this? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x373378">Police Report Filed By ACORN Exposes False Claims By Nefarious Individuals Behind "Sting" Videos

We can thank Hannity, who was going for the sensationalism of having them state over and over that 'no one kicked them out. And all he did was get them on air repeating the lie! Lol! Go Hannity, I knew he had to be good for something.

I see that Giles was a 'no show' for an interview with CNN after the release of the police report. Tonight I saw a promo on CNN in which they stated that there might be some questions about the video taping. But I was not able to see the show as we had company. Still, I felt better to see that someone was finally beginning to question this story.

What police report? Vera's?

I'M SO GLAD SOMEONE IS NOW QUESTIONING THIS! :toast: YEA!

from MediaMatters, which has the transcript from Fox with Hannity questioning them over and over and their responses assuring him that no one turned them away. As it turns out, that was a lie. The Philadelphia office file a Police Report after telling them they could not help them. CNN then obtained the police report from the Philadelphia PD as a result of a complaint by ACORN, proving them to be liars.

CNN apparently had scheduled an interview with Giles (not sure about O'Keefe) but after they were told about the police report it says in the same link, (you can find it right under the screen capture of the Police the report):

CNN's Tucker: "ACORN gave CNN a copy of the police complaint." On , CNN news correspondent Bill Tucker reported: "ACORN gave CNN a copy of the police complaint filed against the filmmakers In Philadelphia. The filmmakers, James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles are not commenting and Giles was a no-show for an agreed-to interview with CNN."

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x373378>

These people are sleazy, trained to be deceptive by Morton Blackwell, their goal is to eliminate any traces of liberal thinking in this country. They also subscribed to the David Horowitz tactic of spying on 'liberal' professors, and O'Keefe's publication was responsible for the 'bake sale' that caused so much controversy.

I do't know what decent goals they may have, but none are apparent from anything I've read about them. Karl Rove, Ralph Reed et al, are their heros.

I think that link should be a stand-alone OP with a headline that emphasizes they were caught red-handed in a lie eg ~ 'Giles a 'No-Show on CNN after O'Keefe/Giles lies exposed by Philly PD report' ~ or 'Why are rightwing operatives hiding from the media on ACORN issue' or something like that. It has been over-looked and is a very, very important piece of news imo. It shows clearly that these people have lied and once caught, are too cowardly to face the media.

They need as many bad headlines as they have earned. It's dis-hearteing when you do a google search to see the faulty reporting on this and not a single bad headline on their very shady and questionable tactics not to mention outright lies.

We should be as 'anally retentive' as they are, choosing a point and beating it into the heads of anyone who reads it. This looks like a good one to me.

:hi: Thankfully, there is some "interesting" info coming out about the filmmakers now.

mzmolly. I know you both have done amazing work on this. It's hard to find much to counter the provocateurs, but the more we put out there, the better.

Let me know if you want to do it. You are very good at this and it needs exposure imo. Or Turborama. But if you're working on something else, I will do it and appreciate the rec offer ~ :-)

I think the more voices we have, the better.

Additionally, I'm to beat to post a coherent sentence! LOL.

:hi:

could do it as your posts get a lot more attention than mine. :-)

But I'll give it a try. It can always be posted again ~

Have to finish watching a movie first ~ and then I'll work on it ~ Priorities! lol!

My threads on GD don't much attention either, but you've got a good idea for a new thread that will keep this story alive. I'll also give it an ocvcaisional kick if it looks like it's going to drop off the radar... ;-)

Feel free to repost any of the links to material I've gathered in other threads. If you want me to, I'll repost some of that background material I've put together too...


Please PM me with a link to the new thread if you post one, sometimes it's really easy to miss something that's posted on here...

I did post an OP finally here ~ http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6595141 ~

I rushed it and made a few mistakes in the html tags, and didn't include some things I thought about later such as posting a link to your OP with the video etc.

I want to thank YOU for those links to Media Matters as that is where I found the buried reference to them hiding from the press. Btw, they are refusing to speak to other news media now also, I think either Rolling Stone or The Village Voice tried to reach O'Keefe about his funding, but he is 'not answering the phone or email'. They've got lost to hide imo.

I will look for your posts as I always find them interesting and rec them whenever I see them.

Is there a feature here where you can keep people on your list to be made aware of their OPS, because it is easy to miss posts, as you say.

Re the one I linked to, I was surprised to find it linked to on what looks like a rightwing site yesterday. Lots of negative comments of course, and it always scares me to be linked to on rightwing sites ~ lol!

Anyhow, if you do post more on this topic, please PM me and I will definitely rec and comment on your work as so far, it has been excellent on the ACORN issue imo.

Great post and thanks for the thanks, the compliments and the recs. :hi:

Re the keeping track of things thing, if you add it to your journal your 'buddies' can see what's in there. What I'm going to do is go through all the stuff I've posted about O'Keefe et al and archive it in my journal for easy access, I've posted quite a lot now and I'm getting quite confused and forgetful, lol. I've also made a folder in my Google Chrome bookmarks for any threads such as this and yours which I'm adding to as well.

help to be able to find them again.

I hadn't though of adding other people's but that's a great idea. I like your idea of a blog where all the information is one place, and would definitely help with that if you decided to do it. I was thinking of putting it all together, all those who have been working on the story, following the timeline etc. and when it is in a coherent form, to send it around to the media. I don't think they've been doing much investigating of the pranksters and are still reporting the story in a very biased way towards ACORN.

Btw, I have put up another OP today as two of the workers are filing a CRIMINAL complaint against the little slime-balls! Lol. That's two actions and California's Acorn office is contemplating another one. So I wanted to record that also. It's in my journal. Thanks again for all your work. ACORN needs support now as they are taking a stand and probably need to know that there are many people rooting for them.

police in National City confirmed that he called them.

Too many football games on tomorrow. ;)

:hi:

Keep up the good work mzmolly!

and I claim that I have a BIG problem with the IRS, but that I have a large amount of cash and I'm interested in tax shelters.

I secretly film the whole thing, unfairly edit it to death and then present it to the media as evidence that said firm is guilty of systemic fraud.

Now, do you think said Wall Street Firm:

1.) Fires all the lawyers involved in hopes of regaining credibility.

2.) Sues the fuck out of me for slander, possibly preferring charges for videotaping a legal consultation without their permission.

2 JD.

when they were done with me.

The entire Oregon delegation of Democratic Congresmen and Senators voted to defund ACORN as a result of these scam videos. What chickenshits.

I hope they WILL launch an investigation and demand every ounce of available evidence from the filmmakers.

Unfortunately, in the court of public opinion, there are no rules of evidence.

I guess my statement up there was a bit hyperbolic, as I do appreciate some of the things my congressional delegation does. Just frustrating to watch them fold on this instantly, immediately after Wyden standing up against the best health coverage.

persecute those trying to help those made desperate by those conditions?

Nice job, if you can get it.

But, apparently this is the case. ;)

in the book.

I think the most you could reasonably accuse Vera of is maybe not objecting strenuously enough to the rather outlandish story he was being told! At times he seemed quite bewildered, and understandably so.

The 'film-makers' repeatedly asked him some VERY leading questions, trying to get him to say something incriminating, and the most they were able to get out of him was a 'Yeah' or 'OK'.

I don't see where he provided, or agreed to provide, any assistance other than a vague promise to 'send an e-mail'.

On top of that, he DID call the police.

This whole situation just stinks!

Thanks iceman. :hi:

are, shall we say, conveniently missing from the video tapes. I'm planning to go over the transcripts more closely today.

and he was having difficulty understanding them at times.

He probably works mostly with other Hispanics and may not deal often with English speaking people coming into his office.

So his utterances of things like "yeah" and "OK" may not have been his assent to what they were saying but rather him covering up his lack of comprehension.

He didn't fully understand what was even being said. :(

Would he have done that if he was contemplating anything even remotely illegal?

until O'Keefe himself corrected him with "district attorneys". There was obviously a language issue.

:hi:

:(

She'd be good in this situation.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20090919/ZNYT02/909193018?Title=A-Political-Gadfly-Lampoons-the-Left-via-YouTube

That is first-hand testimony establishing this person has in fact doctored videos to alter their character in the past.

!!!

Note the person I replied to supplied transcripts that differ from the video content.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6576332&mesg_id=6590429

I agree with the magistrate, your post is thread worthy. If you start a thread, I'll post what I've learned thus far about the transcripts.

Your post demonstrates what many of us suspected. Mr. O'Keefe does not appear to have the highest ethical standards? And, clearly, Mr. O'Keefe's former associates have validated our collective concerns.

Sorry I did not see your post last night - had turned in for the night - I posted it just now. See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6591490&mesg_id=6591490


I have not read the transcripts. I will check them out.

before reading too much into them. :hi:

O'Keefe/Giles says: 'yeah' 'okay' etc. The language barrier is so obvious to anyone who has ever encountered a language barrier. I have a SIL who is Mexican, and as bright as she is, the language barriers in our conversations are quite apparent. I know when she is not understanding the conversation because I get a lot of the 'okay' 'yeah' type responses and then I try to slow down or rephrase until I know she's understanding me.

I will re-watch the videos and try to coordinate them with the transcript - I honestly cannot tell is Veras even understood what the couple were asking him to do. Seems he just mostly listened and then said he'd call them or email them. He keeps referring them to some housing seminar coming up. It's obvious he doesn't follow.

I try to put myself in this situation, because having worked in the social services (counseling - State Voc Rehab) field before, we meet a lot of strange characters with a lot of strange stories, accusations and requests (I no longer work for the state). I can imagine myself wanting to sit and listen to get a feel for what the person is asking, gathering that and then going to my higher ups afterward with the info. Sometimes for security reasons, it's not best to confront while in a session or meeting like this. Oh, sure, I think I would tell a client asking about illegal activities that such and such were illegal, but did Carlos actually follow what they were doing/asking?

Not trying to make excuses for him if he did, but even if he did understand what they were asking, maybe he just wanted to get more info before he called them out on it - so not to scare them away and so he could have proper authorities follow up on it. :shrug:

I sure hope someone down there in SD - a legal advocacy group, or pro bono group - gets in touch with him, or he them, so they can investigate this and advocate for him if he is telling the truth. His side of the story, at a minimum should be heard.

I don't know. Something is weird, and given the background on this O'Keefe-Rove-Wanna-Be, it stinks.

As to the second transcript, what the heck is that about? Can't tell what it's even referring to.

Juan Carlos, page 9 of the first transcript, after the crime of saying "yeah and uhuh" STILL does not know what these people are asking of him. I'm even more disgusted after reading the transcript. Vera is guilty of taking information and saying yeah on several occasions. Also note, Giles and O'Keefe feign fear that Vera will contact police in several instances.



It seems Giles and O'Keefe weren't the only people trying to ascertain information that may be incriminating? Mr. Vera tried to get information on the girls who were supposedly coming in so called containers, and HE REPORTED THE INCIDENT TO POLICE! No where, in any of these transcripts did he offer to help smuggle anyone into the country! Upon being questioned "as a latino male" he suggested a location perhaps so he knew what to tell the D.A.? He took names, numbers and emails and he played along saying something about having contacts in Mexico. And again, the BOTTOM LINE is, he contacted police.

I can totally relate to your sentiments about working with the public in a non-judgmental manner. I too have heard crazy stories and did not play judge and jury. I would help people by any legal means necessary, try to gather info. and if pertinent report XYZ to the police as Mr. Vera did.

I'm with you on the pro-bono attorney matter. I too hope he'll get representation.

that, to the extent that he engaged in conversation with them at all, Vera was trying to obtain bits of identifying information that he could take to the proper authorities.

Bolstered, of course, by the fact that he DID call the police.

The thing that really sticks out in ALL of the Acorn 'stings' is that, while some Acorn employees were caught saying some embarrassing things on tape, NONE offered any real concrete assistance to the 'pimp' or 'prostitute'. Not a single document was filed on their behalf, by any of the offices.

Again, the most any of them can reasonably be accused of is not objecting strongly enough to the story they wee being told. Does that justify pulling their funding?

Having watched some of the videos, I can understand this because they probably thought they were dealing with crazy people, or a couple of kids playing a prank.

The 'performances' were not at all convincing.

fully.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Rutgers_Centurion

The Daily Targum, according to Wikipedia, is "the official student newspaper of Rutgers University, the State University of New Jersey."

This link above does not say why he was fired, and I can find no reference why, but considering his antics, I can imagine that no self-respecting publication would want him on their staff.

I'd love to find out more about why he was fired. Great work Emit!

Seems others are questioning the veracity of the Juan Carlos Vera video, including such things as the date stamp times on the video: http://veritasvisuals.com/videos.html

No answer as of yet.

He also "he got kicked out of his Freshman dormitory at Rutgers for calling someone the N-word. He denies it, of course, but you be the judge (and seriously, I'll quote the poetry, it's terrible)...":


http://wwww.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/15/782156/-The-Acorn-Pimp:-the-bully-behind-the-costume.

But, all of the links have been scrubbed, so I cannot access the links that the Kos diarist provided.

racist in nature as well.

Great work once again!

It deserves major attention. Use a subject line that says something like "ACORN sting videographer has been accused of dishonest editing in the past."

This needs to get attention.

just logged on and saw yours and mzmolly's, etc. responses and I posted an OP just now using your title - thanks for that, btw - being this early for me without coffee, it allowed my not to have to think too hard for a title, lol! :hi:

Here's a link to his thread for those interested.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6591490

It already has 5 recs!

And they don't care who they hurt, what lies they tell, or the consequences of their actions.

This is not anything new about the republicans. It's why I can believe Mr. Vera.

See my response here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6576332&mesg_id=6590429

Will be back tomorrow to watch the tape --

time because they were a constant champion of the poor. During the Clinton administration remember when the Republicans drew up a bill to overturn the Glass-Steagall Act? The Gramm/Leach/Bliley Act? Clinton and the Democrats ended up signing the bill. Targeted also by Gramm was the CRA or The Community Reinvestment Act.

The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 was the result of decades of disinvestment in poor and working-class neighborhoods. It was designed to put an end to "redlining"—a widespread practice in which banks refused to write mortgages for houses in certain neighborhoods, no matter who was applying or how creditworthy they were.

ACORN worked with low income families to secure loans to buy homes and for a long time while banks were initially worried about lending to these families, they turned out to be very successful loans. But after Clinton allowed the Republicans to weaken the CRA, ACORN began warning about predatory lenders (regulations were no longer in place to prevent this).

Rightwingers fantasize that it was the CRA and ACORN who brought down the Global Economy, but in fact it was ACORN who sounded a warning long before the collapse. Iow, ACORN was a thorn in the side of the derugaltors and profiteers. And a thorn, not just on this issue, but on many more. The right has no time for organizations like ACORN.

I hope people will learn more about this organization and ignore anything written about them by the right. Wikipedia has a fairly decent review of all the work they've done over the past several decades. They are a target of the right and have been for a very long time, because they fought them on issues that related to the poor.

:hi:

could be something like disputing the video, rather than bowing to the right and firing the guy.

can our people grow spines?

I can understand why the media types on the left don't want to touch this with a ten foot pole. Which is not to say that they shouldn't have some courage in approaching it.

The flip side is that in this modern age, there is absolutely no reason that original unedited Video on everything anyone does, news or Faux News, should not be available on the internet. Something shady happened. I wasn't there. I hope that the appropriate legal agencies step in and make sure the truth comes out, whatever it is.

They have inserted themselves into the middle of this, they should find out what's going on.

:shrug:

Although not necessarily real. But that's the point. Political pushback against the folks that are hunting down Acorn.

Dan Burton's investigations (witch hunts) of the Clintons were pretty successful, as were the Enron investigations (white washes) that were led by Joe Lieberman.

It's all about how you look at things, whether or not they are ever successful. Iraq war - HUGE SUCCESS - from the perspective of the folks who were responsible for it.

ACORN and/or organizations that accomplish the same stated goals will continue to exist, regardless.

His scenario is that he was portraying himself as a pimp trying to smuggle in underage girls to work for him. Does it really make sense that he would try to catch people by doing that?

If I was a right winger trying to sting a group like ACORN, then in my mind I might assume that they would bite on an illegal immigration scheme since, as a right winger, I would associate a group like ACORN with illegal immigrants. So the illegal immigration part of the sting makes sense. I would go to them with a straightforward, common, and easily believable illegal scheme, e.g. "I'm an employer trying to smuggle in workers to pick my crops". Catching them agreeing to that would be enough to smear them, especially considering the hatred of "illegals" in the base that they are aiming this at.

Why complicate it with the idea that the "workers" are underage girls and the "work" is prostitution? That actually increases the chances that you'll be rejected and authorities will be contacted. So why add the prostitution angle into the scenario?

I would only complicate the scenario with something like that if I thought that it could actually increase the chances that I could get them to agree, or at least hesitate to reject me outright (which is all that the camera needs). The idea that you were smuggling young girls out of Mexico to protect them from an evil pimp fits the bill. Plus you can later use creative editing to make it look like they were agreeing to help you smuggle in the girls to work as prostitutes.

The idea of attempting to get people to help you in smuggling in underage prostitutes would seem like a no go from the start. Who the hell would help you with something like that? There's no personal gain, they're not helping anybody (other than an evil scumbag pimp), and the consequences of getting caught are severe. Why try to sting people with something very few people would agree to?

out if he needs to declare his pimping income, or can get tax breaks for the underage girls he's bringing in.

fachrissake.

points.

Of course the whole salacious angle pretty much guaranteed him airtime on Fox news.

First I'd contact a lawyer, my guess is he already has.

After watching the video and reading the transcripts such as they are it seems obvious Mr. Carlos is having a difficult time understanding the motivations of Biff and Buffy. He keeps referring them to the upcoming housing seminar and their first time buyers program.

This needs a full investigation and the original UNCUT tapes, all of them. Context is everything in this case and I think the "filmmakers" are presenting this totally out of context. Just the neighborhoods that ACORN works in and the context of daily life are completely baffling to 99% of suburban white america.

evidence was deliberately slanted?

At this point, I think Vera and/or ACORN have no choice but to pursue this from a legal standpoint.

Don't pile onto the office because we don't know all the facts. They could have had other reasons totally unrelated to the video to getting rid of this man.

who said he was fired on local television. They said he was fired due to issues with the so called sting operation, period.

If it's just another "the b!tch set me up" excuses.

I'm not sure what your sexist comment above is supposed to mean, however?

He was caught in a sting, and rather than argue for his innocence, he made that comment about the woman involved.

Mark Foley about the boys/men/drugs involved.

Previously, when confronted with speculations that he was gay, Foley labeled them "revolting and unforgivable."

Haggard initially claimed he had never heard of his accuser and denied having ever done drugs and stated "I have not, I have never had a gay relationship with anybody.

Craig insisted upon his innocence, disputing the officer's version of the event by stating that he merely had a "wide stance" and that he had been picking a piece of paper from the floor.

Source for all quotes = WIKI

:hi:

Craig et al were proclaining innocence. ACORN never proclaimed innocence--in fact three out of five summarily fired the employees in a tacit admission of guilt.

Anyway, it's all past tense now. Bertha Lewis is currently thanking the film makers for exposing the corruption. It's astonishing to me, but I guess she had legal advice to back off her accusations, otherwise she might be giving them ammunition to go after them in court. And whether the case was successful or not (regardless of which side brought the suit), that kind of exposure in court is not in ACORN's best interest.

kicked the pimp/hooker team out of their offices, and they noted police reports were filed in more than one case. Also, I expect Mr. O'Keefe will be defending himself in the near future? Perhaps he can tuck that "revolting and unforgivable" line into his pocket for future reference?

I think you're wrong in your assessment about ACORN backing down. This statement/article remains on ACORNS website:

"Attack Videographer Caught in Manipulation and Lies"

http://acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews=22588&tx_ttnews=12340&cHash=a11a0d72b3

Where is Lewis thanking filmmakers? Do you have a link?

I don't think any of this is past tense. I think some wish it were? However, I feel it's only the beginning.

but as the threat to cut funding increased, he was pressured into letting him go in hopes that might help. It didn't.

Will someone please sue FOX news for defamation of character, entrapment, slander. Perhaps we can put together donations to help pursue a suit against them?

Whoever those unknown "higher ups" that Conyers mentioned are, they are certainly tightening the screws on ACORN.

I have searched and have not come up with anything that could be called 'eating crow'. I'll check back for you link later, thank you in advance.

The viral scapegoating of ACORN, based upon shoddy and EDITED video that was aired on and distributed by Faux of all places has been disgusting. No one wanted to hear the other side of the story. While some of the ACORN employees may be a problem, that does not represent the organization as a whole or their mission. I believe that Mr. Vera's side of the story deserves to be heard and to go viral as well.

If not from Rove himself

We have to get Dems moving on this --

We have to start pressuring FOX in their latest GOP propaganda stunt to release

ALL of the videos -- in full.

And we need to all STOP falling apart every time one of these GOP swiftboating stunts

comes along --

Presume there is redeeming info -- and we need to slow all of this down and get it out!!!

:kick: and REC'D!

:hi:

Those two entrapping faux journalists should be put in stocks.

K and R.

Later, he is said to have reported Giles and O'Keefe to police. So, I don't understand why ACORN would fire him, given he reportedly contacted police after this incident. In fact, Giles and O'Keefe said in the transcripts that they feared Vera would contact police.

IMO, ACORN should not have given two liars the benefit of the doubt. IMO, Giles and O'Keefe callously destroyed the lives of the working poor featured in the videos. As such, they are not to be taken at their word.

Additionally, it's clear that he did not fully understand what was being requested of him. Regardless, he contacted police. That alone should have saved his job (provided the info we have at our disposal is complete).

:kick:

Well, it's come to this. . .using Agents Provocateur to entrap an organization they have targeted because they think poor people and minorities shouldn't vote.

Disgusting!!!

:hi:

Agreed, disgusting.

Geez, Mr. Vera. You think you're the only person to ever lose a job? How about all those Wall Street investment bankers? How are they supposed to scrape by? On their savings from their phony-baloney jobs that paid them millions every year? You can always go to Arizona and pick cabbage for $50 an hour! John McCain said so. But what are overpaid, overprivileged, overconnected white people supposed to do? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to pull into the yacht club with last year's yacht?

Try to have a little compassion, you whiner.

Maybe my sarcasm sensor works a little slower on a Sunday afternoon.

After reading the transcripts I can't see why they did - especially after they backed him at first.

SPECULATION - maybe Juan Carlos sent the email he was talking about in the transcript and something in that email sent from his private account (which may have been made available to ACORN by the filmers after they/he threatened to sue???) led to them taking the action in firing the employee.

and felt he was too much baggage after the video was released? Unless there is more to the story? But, I'd be very surprised of Giles and O'Keefe would keep that kind of information to themselves, so?

for those who missed it over the weekend.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hA9b96qgu9MG_331xFUGcYvhOcLAD9AS3CUO0

It's on the du front page as well!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4070953&mesg_id=4070953

did the "filmakers" show up on Hannity's show again I wonder? or are they in hiding, editing more footage to make the innocent appear guilty?

Who knows! ;)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/09/21/state/n190928D71.DTL&tsp=1 :)

I was planning to do a piece on what the war on Acorn is really about. That will help me.

looks like they played all the cards --

sexual perversion -- and people of other nationalities who speak other than English

as their original language --

everything the nutty right wing would go for --

Immigrants!!!

People of color !!!

Sex!!!

Dems should wake up on this and start looking for who's profiting here and what hand

the GOP may have had in this.

Thanks for all the info!

We all need to wake up on this --

I think we need to rouse Democrats to fight back on this --

and give ACORN a chance to get the redeeming info.

At this point, I'm convinced this is all contrived by the GOP with Fox --


Imagine that Blackwater is still doing business with our government --

but we're questioning ACORN?????????????

Ridiculous!!!

This was a GOP-dirty trick played vs a minority organization --

and minority employees who could be tricked by those taking advantage of a

language barrier --

WHERE IS THE REST OF THE VIDEO????