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"Counting to 60" - getting to the public option by stopping a GOP filibuster

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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:39 PM
Original message
"Counting to 60" - getting to the public option by stopping a GOP filibuster
Edited on Wed Sep-23-09 08:40 PM by Richardo

I <3 seeing that guy on the left

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/dems-ramp-up-push-for-col_n_296421.html

Dems Ramp Up Push For Colleagues To Block Filibuster On Health Care



Buoyed by news of a temporary replacement for the late Senator Ted Kennedy, Senate Democratic leaders are launching a renewed effort to get all 60 members of their caucus -- even those who might eventually vote against health care legislation -- to at least commit to blocking a Republican filibuster.

After that, the bill itself could win passage with only a simple majority. :party:

<snip>

As former DNC Chair Howard Dean summarized: "If you are a member of the Democratic Party you have an obligation... to vote with the party on procedural issue. I would expect that regardless of what Senators think they about the public option, they should be there for cloture."

On the Hill, Sen. Bernie Sanders, (I-VT) has been one of the chief proponents of the commit-to-cloture strategy. And increasingly, senior aides say, he is getting the backing of the party's leadership.

"I think there is growing support for the understanding that if, for whatever reason, some of the conservative members of the caucus choose not to support a public option or vote for final passage that is fine," said Sanders. "We can live with that. What we do need is a united caucus to say to the republicans and say, 'sorry you are not going to sidetrack health care reform and we are going to go forward.'"

"You will have 50 votes for a strong public option" if we get there, Sanders added. "I do believe that."

<snip>


Nice strategy: Ten Blue Dogs can vote 'No' on the public option if they want, all they have to do is stop a filibuster. The other 50 Dems will give them cover in their home states, and Biden breaks the tie.

Looking better for a public option. Sit down, Senator Snowe, we don't need to beg for your token tepid support anymore.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have been saying for some time that it is not 60 votes for the health care bill
but 60 votes for cloture.

If you are against the bill fine but you do not cross the aisle for a filibuster.

The bill deserves an up or down vote and I don't see any of these clowns having the guts to be the one that filibusters so a vote cannot be taken,


BTW I think that the Republicans want cloture, want the bill to be passed.

It takes them off the hook for coming up with a different plan and then they can also run against the Democrats when the mandates become unpopular.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Good analysis grantcart...
...that had not occurred to me. :dunce:

You're right though, this gives both sides cover. Except the GOP will be BEGGING for a piece of the credit in a few years.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The gang of
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. The mandate to buy in the insurance forcibily will 1) either be removed or 2) heavily subsidized
via tax credits.

Hawkeye-X
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Kinda funny when you talk about "crossing the aisle". The f'in Blue Dogs don't mind crossing the
aisle. They have no allegiance to the Party.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. they will on particular issues that they don't agree with
but crossing on a major procedureal issue is something of a different nature.

You have to also factor in that some people are holding back to increase their bargaining potential - advancing a pet project or getting more help in fund raising.

Any crossing the aisle to sustain a Republican filibuster on a major issue would have massive repurcussions including losing valuable committee assignments and chairmanships - and these are key for them to raise money from lobbyists.

They will have an out, vote no on the bill but insist that the bill get a vote.


And again I think that the Republicans WANT it to pass. They will be able to take the HC issue off the table, tag the Democrats with all of the fallout with the mandates and then complain whenever there is a problem with the plan, and there will be.

Causing the bill to fail doesn't really help the Republicans in the long run. Also the other big HC industries, Pharma, AMA etc all have a great deal to gain with reform, even if there is a public option. Right now the lobbyists are all running ads for reform, just a few against the public option.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. They crossed on the Patriot Act, MCA, and every single thing bush* asked them too.
You don't think they will cross the aisle for killing health insurance reform?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. "It takes them off the hook"
They'll throw rocks all the way to 2010, shouting socialism, especially if unemployment gets worse. But it's a short term strategy (no surprise)
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. There needs to be a line drawn: either support the Democratic Party and vote for cloture,
or expect no prized committee chairmanships or memberships. Support your Democratic Party or get out. It's time to get tough otherwise it will go on an on.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. agree 100% but I think that the agreements have already been made.


The President just doesn't seem that worried about it.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why stop it?
The Dems should do everything they can to get the GOP to filibuster. It is a huge mistake IMHO for the Dems to allow the GOP to avoid having to filibuster.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What's to be gained by allowing Repubs to block reform by filibuster? n/t
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Allowing the GOP to filibuster does NOT mean allowing them to block anything
The fact is that the same mechanisms can be used to pass the bill regardless if the GOP filibusters. Dems should dangle the filibuster in front of them and see if they take the bait. With a solid majority of Americans in favor of healthcare reform a filibuster would give Dem candidates challenging GOP incumbents a potent weapon in the 2010 elections.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Reconciliation is not after the fact. If no Repub votes for the bill they can be challenged. n/t
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. The Republicans will filibuster when the bill gets to the floor. It is up to Dems to end it.
Edited on Wed Sep-23-09 09:17 PM by Selatius
If they can muster the 60 votes, the filibuster is shut off, and at that point, a simple majority is needed to pass the bill.

However, this is all dependent upon all Democrats and two Independents voting for Cloture. If even one conservative Democrat bolts and sinks the ship, reform is dead unless Harry Reid invokes budgetary reconciliation.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. And so the question becomes what will Lieberman do.
Am I right? I wish him gone gone gone from the Senate.

I'm fairly convinced that Ben Nelson will be happy to vote for cloture as long as he is allowed the political cover of voting against health care reform. But Lieberman? I dunno. Help me out here.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Let them filibuster a day, a week or a month until 60 votes are achieved to end debate
But, make them filibuster on the floor of the Senate .... no fake Republican "phone it in" filibusters should be tolerated.

And don't withdraw bills simply because 60 votes aren't achieved in the first cloture vote or because Democrats claim they don't have 60 votes to invoke cloture.

Such weak actions are nothing but excuses to justify surrender to a Republican minority.
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dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. They need to say the words "Up or Down Vote" every chance they get.
Just like the Rs did when they were in the majority.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. You are assuming that they want to pass a bill. If you noticed they are not saying
up or down vote. Why? Because many are owned by the same corps that own repukes.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. How can you say up or down vote when you don't have a bill yet?
Just asking.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Last year the repukes filibustered over 100 times and the Dems never mentioned up or down vote.
Nor the nuclear option.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. And Bush would have signed? I doubt.
I hope it's a new ballgame now. We shall see.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. No bush* wouldn't have signed. But the Dems should have forced some "up and down" votes and
forced bush* to veto. Instead the Dems came out looking like weaklings. Yes it is a new ball game but we still have the weak team we had last year. With exception of Senator Alan Frakin.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Congress critters who support a Strong Public Option will be rewarded with votes; those against will
lose votes in 2010.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. ...of course now we have to hope that Byrd is well enough to make the cloture vote.
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 03:19 PM by Richardo
I see he was released from the hospital today.

What is West Virginia's process for naming an interim Senator, if Byrd had to be replaced?
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