Lack Of Taser Killed A Good Friend

The death of an old friend has led me to start a thread for the first time.

I understand the sentiments of many here that tasers are often mis-used and even can lead to death in some circumstances, but the local PD's refusal to issues them is the reason a friend of mine died this weekend.

He was bi-polar (hyper-religious) and assaulted a 77 year old woman working at a local pharmacy while suffering from what I guess would be called a psychotic episode. He left the pharmacy and a local officer pulled him over a couple of miles from the store. A physical altercation ensued, an off duty officer stopped to render aid (I do not know if he was on the scene before the fight started)and ended up shooting and killing Scott. If either officer was armed with a taser instead of a firearm, Scott could most likely have been subdued without the use of lethal force. At least we would know they did everything they could before resorting to lethal force.

I am in no way blaming the officers, my friend was tough as hell when not undergoing some form of psychotic episode so I can't imagine dealing with him in that state. I do blame the local PD's refusal to issued a non-lethal alternative to end this type of situation.

Excuse the rambling. I am more than a little disturbed about this.

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in these incidents.

I had to call the PD when one of my neighbors got violent. She was also bi-polar. Somehow, they managed to get her in custody without guns or tasers. They got her to a hospital, too, instead of jail. She was very lucky.

99% of the cops would rather not pull their gun if they have an alterative method of dealing with a dangerous situation.

without having to kill someone. But, like many of these programs, I'm sure it lags 'way behind other kinds of training.

you are kidding, aren't you???:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

now, I've seen it all. Usually this type of thing is posted in the gungeon, but tasers are very profitable as well.

For reasons unknown many police departments in the US have to assume that the suspect is armed when the suspect is hostile. But police officiers rarely have to draw their firearms and much rarely have to use them.

In Britain and the New Zealand, police still often use batons (occasionally CS spray) and brute force, even against knife welding thugs. Unless a suspect is armed with an actual firearm, in that case they will have to stand back and wait for an armed response unit to deal with the situation.

Would have been on Scott in a two on one confrontation with about 90% of the Bossier City PD, even in a non-psychotic episode. He has had run-ins with them in the past and the BCPD stated that in a 10 on 1 situation three of the officers were injured trying to subdue Scott in the past.

I understand that many cops mis-use tasers, and are very fond of using them as punishment for failure to jump when told to. If your were familiar with the BCPD you would understand the mindset that non-lethal force isn't an attractive alternative.

Four Air Force SP's beat to shit and the K-9 jaws separated. (In their defense the Air Force did'nt allow us to carry batons or tasers) Never underestimate the power of one. The problem with most cop bashers on DU is that they have never been there and somehow that makes them an expert.

And I dealt with someone twice my size who had violent psychotic episodes once or twice a week for five years. I didn't call the cops because I was afraid we would get killed.

I mean you can handle being attacked by a violent psychopath on an almost daily basis for 5 years than you must be able to handle an MMA fighter no problem.

Try again.

Tasers were originally to be used as an alternative to lethal force. They can save many lives when used that way, as your post so painfully demonstrates.

The problem came when cops began using them to subdue or control people in other situations. They should only be used when a cop would otherwise have to kill a person, as an alternative to killing them. They are too often used now as a burned-out shortcut to real police work, or even as a "Respect My Authority" device to punish anyone with a less worshipful attitude than the cop's ego requires at that moment.

Tasers should be standard equipment with cops, but they should be used like guns, not like whistles to get someone's attention.

Sorry for your agony now. :hug: I have a schizophrenic brother and always feared that happening to him.

Need more info on this case and I can't find any recent reports of any shootings of bi-polar men in Louisiana doing a quick Google search.

Where did this happen? A link to the news story would be nice if you have one available.

Don

Per link provided upthread: http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=11250562

i dont have nearly the patience.

But I guess you are okay with summary execution of mentally ill people that commit violent acts.

Found this post by a sufferer while researching "hyper-religiosity: "within weeks im talking to and seeing spirits all around me, some claim to be god, or buddha or whatever kind of supreme being happens to be the centre of the religion ive been looking at. Then i start trusting and listening to these voices, making random decisions and doing weird things... then the spirits turn nasty, telling me to do bad things, hurt myself or others.. then i get depressed, then i come out of it and go back to not believing in any of it. "

The mental disability is being mentioned much in the early reporting. I talked with a very good friend of Scott's and was told he suffered from "hyper-religiosity". At first I doubted the existence of the illness and googled it. That is where I came to the conclusion that it is a bi-polar disorder.

I could be mistaken about the disorder. But that doesn't change the fact that my friend may very well be alive if the LEO's had possessed some other form of force than a firearm to subdue him. And I freely admit that there is no guarantee that a taser would have ended the confrontation. I damn sure wish we had some way of knowing.

there are all kinds of experiences we grow up in, conditioning, indoctrination, different chemical moving in brain differently. religion can really fuck people up, as we see. as simple as that. the anger being projected today, conditions and control people.

i see the situation as sad. but that is about as far as it goes.

tasers are abused and they kill. i do not connect your story, with the use of tasers.

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Sorry about your friend, but this is total bullshit.

They're not much better than guns.

but there is no way of knowing. I am pretty sure the fatality rate for those tased is exponentially lower than the rate for those shot.

If it were me I would take the taser over getting shot, or being beaten for that matter. I know a lot of people that resisted arrest and had to be beaten down, be it drug/alcohol induced (all of my personal experiences) or some other reason. They came out much worse for the wear than the people I know that have been tased.

I admit I run with a rougher than average crowd, and I am not blaming the cops for resorting to what was realistically their only choice. I guess some, including the BCPD, feel a firearm death here and there is better/easier than dealing with the misuse of tasers by LEOs.

i will be the first to speak out about the cop that abuses or misuses his power. i do often. people think i am a cop hater. i am not. i will also support the police that is confronted in a situation where they have to protect themselves.

i dont know htis situation, but seems to me like cops were truly threatened.

I am no great advocate of tasers, but the likelihood of surviving a taser is around 1000 times greater than surviving a gunshot from a police service caliber (.40 cal, .357, even 9mm).

FWIW, my mother is a nurse who had her collar bone broken by a geriatric patient swinging an ash tray. There were other injuries over the years from patients taking a swing. If a geriatric patient with dementia can do that much damage, imagine the damage from a tough as hell young man. A fist to the side of the head or to the face can do a lot of damage. The two cops were in fact facing lethal force.

There are probably 10 dominoes in a line that could of fell differently to prevent his death. Funny you just homed in on the taser angle.

More often than a gun being used instead of a taser, problems arise when tasers are used when a gun would never be. Police have no reason to talk people down and de-escalate a situation verbally. Instead, now, they have tasers.

Respectfully, I put the blame at a place other than the lack of a taser.

The first issue is lack of quality and accessible mental healthcare in this country. The stigma, cost and inadequacy of mental healthcare has led to many 'Scotts' endangering themselves and others.

The second point is appropriate use of force by police officers. I don't know all the details, but I question whether they needed to use deadly force or even a taser. Could he not have been subdued by some other means? Too often cops react with more force than is needed. It has become almost accepted that they will(and should) over-react. I shot in the leg may have been enough. I don't know that a taser would have lessen the use of force. Maybe, maybe not. The weapons are not as much of an issue to me as the excessive use of force.

I would edit the original post to add "MAY" to the title.

There are many things that could have or have not happened that would have resulted in Scott being alive today. Some are obvious. Scott could have not beat the woman in CVS. Scott could have rec'd help for his mental illness. A different LEO, more adept at physical confrontation could have been the first on the scene.... None of this I deny.

I don't place any blame on the officers at the scene. Nor have I in any of my posts. But there is no argument that can be made to convince me that if either of the officers had a taser, and was able to deploy it (which the ability to use a handgun leads me to believe it would have been possible) Scott in all likelihood would be alive today.

Edit to add:

I will now step away from the laptop and go watch the Saints with my brother. Reading about and discussing this with my friends is getting me no where but more wound-up. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

Also please accept my sincere condolences about your friends death. This is a tragic no matter what actually happened detail wise.

See you later and take care.

Don

back in the day cops had to have a good line of BS (empathy) to deal with all people in situations..today its hanging on their hip.

I just lost a friend to mental illness also. It sucks.

If this is a factual account of what happened I don't think a taser on the scene would have made a difference: (Long and hard to read post from the comment section of the Shreveport Times article)
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freddymac77 wrote:
NOW ITS REALLY SAD TO SEE THESE PEOPLE WIT THESE RACIAL COMMENTS BUT SCARED TO BRING THE NOISE BUT OFCOURSE WHEN ONE STAYS IN THE WOODS ALL THERE LIFE I CAN EXPECT THAT...AND AS SCOTT BEING KILLD BY THE POLICE A RIGHTOEUS KILL U BE THE JUDGE...20 TO 25 YDS MY WIFE WATCHED IN HORROR AS MR SCOTT WAS SHOOT NOT ONCE TWICE NOR THREE TIMES HE TOOK FIVE SHOOT AGAIN AN UNARMED MAN MENTALLY ILL COPS KNEW HIM ,ACOUPLE OF YRS AGO DRAGGED THIS SAME MAN OUT OF HIS RESIDENTS AND BEAT HIM.DID HE HAVE A FLASHBACK WHEN HE SEEN THE POLICE AGAIN DID HE FEAR FOR HIS LIFE?MR SCOTT WAS GETTING PULLED OVER AND AS THE OFFICER WALKD UP TO THE TRUCK HE JUMPS OUT AND BEGINS SWINGING AT THE OFFICER YES ONE OFFICER THE OFFICER TRYS TO AVOID BEING HIT BY BACK PEDALLING AND DUCKN AND DODGEING AS THEY MOVE TO THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET THE OFFICER LOOSES BALANCE AND FALLS BACKWARDS SCOTT ALSO FALLS WHILE TRYING TO GRAB THE OFFICER AS SCOTT TRYS TO REGAIN HIS BALANCE THIS SO CALLED OFF DUTY OFFICER IN FULL UNIFORM
THE OFF DUTY OFFICER JUMPS OUT HIS CAR WITHOUT TELLING SCOTT TO STOP OR FREEZE AND SHOOT HIM TWICE IN THE BACK OF HIS LEG AS SCOTT FALLS AND BEGINS TO TURN OVER FINALLY WIT HIS HANDS UP HE WAS SHOT THREE MORE TIMES IN THE STOMACH AND CHEST AREA.WHY WIFE TOOK A PICTURE OF THE EVENT AND SENT IT TO ME AND I CALLED ETERNAL AFFAIRS AS THEY TURND AROUND AND CALLED THE BOSSIER DET UNIT AND TOLD THEM I HAVE A PIC OF THE COP THAT SHOT MR SCOTT AND THE BODY THAT LAYED DEAD ON THE STREET.BUT THE DETECTIVE CAME TO ME AND HAD ME HAND OVER MY PHONE FOR 5 TO 10 MIN TO HAVE THE PIC REMOVE FROM MY PHONE AS WELL AS MY WIFE BUT ONCE WE GOT TO THE STATION TO MAKE THE REPORT AND HANDED OVER THE PHONES WIT OUT AN ISSUE AND IN RETURN WAS TOLD WE WOULD GET THE PHONES BACK IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES WAS LATER SOUNDED BY DETECTIVES AND OFFICERS AND WAS FORCED TO LEAVE WIT OUT OUR PHONES MY WIFE MY 18MTH OLD DAUGHTER WAS IN THE CENTER AS THEY LOOK LIKE THEY WAS ABOUT TO RUSH US CAUSE THEY WAS YELLING AT US TO LEAVE
10/4/2009 6:20:17 PM
THE OFF DUTY OFFICER JUMPS OUT HIS CAR WITHOUT TELLING SCOTT TO STOP OR FREEZE AND SHOOT HIM TWICE IN THE BACK OF HIS LEG AS SCOTT FALLS AND BEGINS TO TURN OVER FINALLY WIT HIS HANDS UP HE WAS SHOT THREE MORE TIMES IN THE STOMACH AND CHEST AREA.WHY WIFE TOOK A PICTURE OF THE EVENT AND SENT IT TO ME AND I CALLED ETERNAL AFFAIRS AS THEY TURND AROUND AND CALLED THE BOSSIER DET UNIT AND TOLD THEM I HAVE A PIC OF THE COP THAT SHOT MR SCOTT AND THE BODY THAT LAYED DEAD ON THE STREET.BUT THE DETECTIVE CAME TO ME AND HAD ME HAND OVER MY PHONE FOR 5 TO 10 MIN TO HAVE THE PIC REMOVE FROM MY PHONE AS WELL AS MY WIFE BUT ONCE WE GOT TO THE STATION TO MAKE THE REPORT AND HANDED OVER THE PHONES WIT OUT AN ISSUE AND IN RETURN WAS TOLD WE WOULD GET THE PHONES BACK IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES WAS LATER SOUNDED BY DETECTIVES AND OFFICERS AND WAS FORCED TO LEAVE WIT OUT OUR PHONES MY WIFE MY 18MTH OLD DAUGHTER WAS IN THE CENTER AS THEY LOOK LIKE THEY WAS ABOUT TO RUSH US CAUSE THEY WAS YELLING AT US TO LEAVE freddymac77

I would strongly encourage this person to get legal representation and get as far away from Bossier City as possible.

My condolences on the loss of your friend.

:hug: