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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:17 AM
Original message
One in every 100 children Autistic?
Autism Rates: Government Studies Find 1 in 100 Children Have Autism Disorders
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CARLA K. JOHNSON | 10/ 5/09 01:02 AM |

CHICAGO — Two new government studies indicate about 1 in 100 children have autism disorders – higher than a previous U.S. estimate of 1 in 150.

Greater awareness, broader definitions and spotting autism in younger children may explain some of the increase, federal health officials said.

"The concern here is that buried in these numbers is a true increase," said Dr. Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health. "We're going to have to think very hard about what we're going to do for the 1 in 100."

Figuring out how many children have autism is extremely difficult because diagnosis is based on a child's behavior, said Dr. Susan E. Levy of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics subcommittee on autism.


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/autism-rates-government-s_n_309290.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:24 AM
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. 'One of the studies
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 02:38 AM by elleng
stems from the 2007 National Survey of Children's Health. The results were released Monday, and published in October's Pediatrics.

In that study, based on telephone surveys, parents reported about 1 in 91 children, ages 3 to 17, had autism, including milder forms such as Asperger's syndrome.'



Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/autism-rates-government-s_n_309290.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:48 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:49 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:36 AM
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. you might want to read a bit on Hans Asperger
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. No, you didn't hear an interview with him on the radio.
He was Austrian, and he wrote his papers in German. And his work was largely unknown in the U.S. during his lifetime.

From Wikipedia:

Asperger died before his identification of this pattern of behavior became widely recognized, because his work was mostly in German and barely translated. The term "Asperger's syndrome" was popularized in a 1981 paper by British researcher Lorna Wing, which challenged the previously accepted model of autism presented by Leo Kanner in 1943.<4> Unlike Kanner, Hans Asperger's findings were ignored and disregarded in the English-speaking world in his lifetime. Finally, from the early 1990s, his findings began to gain notice, and nowadays Asperger syndrome is recognized as a diagnosis in a large part of the world.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Look up
thr NPR interview with the guy who popularized the "disorder". I listened to it with my wife who is a physician, we both laughed our ass off.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. You are misinformed. Hans Asperger deserves the major credit for
identifying the disorder; and a woman, Dr. Lorna Wing, was the person who then popularized the term "Asperger's syndrome." I have no idea who the "guy" was you heard on the radio.

From Wikipedia:

Hans Asperger:

The term "Asperger's syndrome" was popularized in a 1981 paper by British researcher Lorna Wing, which challenged the previously accepted model of autism presented by Leo Kanner in 1943.<4> Unlike Kanner, Hans Asperger's findings were ignored and disregarded in the English-speaking world in his lifetime. Finally, from the early 1990s, his findings began to gain notice, and nowadays Asperger syndrome is recognized as a diagnosis in a large part of the world.



Lorna Wing, MD, FRCPsych, (born 7 October 1928) is an English psychiatrist and physician.

As a result of having an autistic daughter, she became involved in researching developmental disorders, particularly autism spectrum disorders. She joined with other parents of autistic children to found the National Autistic Society (NAS) in the United Kingdom in 1962. She currently works part-time as a consultant psychiatrist at the NAS Centre for Social and Communication Disorders at Elliot House. She lives in Sussex, England.

Wing is the author of many books and academic papers, including Asperger's Syndrome: a Clinical Account, a 1981 academic paper that popularised the research of Hans Asperger and introduced the term "Asperger's syndrome".

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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Wiki really?
OK

Asperger's Syndrome 969 up, 737 down love it hate it

A real-life mental disorder, related to autism, that only about 2-3% of people claiming to have it have actually been professionally diagnosed by a psychologist.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Asperger%27s%20Syndrome
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Wiki was quick and sufficient to prove the point. Anyone with a modicum
of education about autism knows who Hans Asperger's was, and that he wasn't joking about the condition on a U.S. radio show.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Deleted message
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Kids who are beaten up or bullied in school are not "losers." The people
who are bullying them are transgressors.

Violence in the school setting is not the point at hand. You invoke it cheaply to bolster your point, such as it is, about Autism-spectrum disorders.

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. +1000
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Indeed. n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. No, no one has ever diagnosed me with Asperger's, LOL.
But my youngest son has always had children on the spectrum in his classes, and one of my friends is the mother of a boy with autism. It is a devastating condition, and it disgusts me that you are making light of it.


If it is true that adults with Asperger's don't hesitate to label themselves (I don't know this for a fact, as you seem to) -- there would be a logic to that. Part of the disorder is that they lack the "normal" social knowledge of other people -- hence, they wouldn't know or care that "people with mental disorders usually don't brag about it." People with Asperger's are among the most honest people I have known. It is not natural for them to dissemble, and they can't understand how easy it is for the rest of us to do so.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
129. As an officially disgnosed Aspie
I can add to this, that frankly, we Aspies do not get the social layers that most people seem to use, little white lies, odd "contexts" that make no literal sense, and as a result, while we do well in technical areas, we stink at social ones, which is we we get fired a lot. If you know your classic "so and so is so bright, I wonder why he/she never did well.", that person can be an aspie.

And believe me, I fought the idea of that for YEARS, until 20 years of agony and failure led me to a psycholgist couch and a series of tests.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
145. Nice to see you use this tactic with others also.State a "fact", source wiki, then
do a backhanded insult.

And all this time I thought it was just me you did this too.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. pnwmom is absolutely right.
If you want a more academic source than Wiki, you can read one of Lorna Wing's own publications, or Uta Frith's "Autism: Explaining the Enigma" or her edited book "Autism and Asperger Syndrome". But I suspect that you are not really interested in doing research on the matter.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
71. urban dictionary?
Really?

Oh, man. :rofl:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
74. "A doctor" of what?
Clearly not pediatric neurology.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. This sounds most improbable
Did you hear this interview before 1980, and did the man have an Austrian accent? If No to either of these questions, it wasn't Hans Asperger, an Austrian researcher who died in 1980, and did his main work in the area much earlier. And I don't think he considered himself as a failure!
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Already explained the interview
try again.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. The 'man who popularized it'...
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 04:18 AM by LeftishBrit
who was that?

The person who 'popularized' it was Lorna Wing. Uta Frith and Simon Baron-Cohen have both written on it for the public as well as academic audiences since then. The first two of these are women, and if Simon Baron-Cohen has *ever* referred to himself, or been described, as a failure, I'll eat my hat. Moreover, to the best of my knowledge, none of them has Asperger Syndrome him/herself.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. search NPR
and an American researcher who gave an interview 3 years who self-diagnosed.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. That's your job. n't
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 04:22 AM by pnwmom
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Deleted sub-thread
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. Saying it was some "guy" you heard on NPR didn't explain it.
Unless maybe he was from The Onion.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Deleted sub-thread
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
67. The guy who discovered it has been dead since 1980....
and his last name was Asperger. Why are you being a dick?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
70. Deleted message
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. There are few parents who would report their children as having Asperger's
without having already consulted (probably extensively) with experts.

And your comment about "basement dwelling shut-ins" is a terrible slur on adults with a real disorder.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Agree.
:thumbsup:
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
51. It's fashionable to do so, at least in the states.
It's a chic diagnosis, a way to hang developmental issues on a name.

That doesn't (and shouldn't) minimize developmental issues, but there are parents here "hanging" ASD on everything from people with trouble reading, to people who obsess about a subject, to people who find joy in ordering objects, to people who don't feel they "fit in" or "understand others".

Basically, it's a way for many parents to reject/classify any "nerd" children, on the basis of grossly subjective medicine.

WRT to your comment about adults, you're right, in that rejection of all folks along ASD can be a horrible thing, which is why many of the ASD folks have raised a big finger to the NT, and started working together.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. you
make a wonderful point, too bad they are going to start calling you a republican and making fun of your wife.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Only if the person keeps citing his wife as the unheard from expert. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Deleted message
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. It's fashionable? Not among any of the people I know.
And I happen to live in an area where there are more children diagnosed than elsewhere, for whatever reason. Every single family I've known with a diagnosis on the spectrum has suffered with this. It's not an excuse, or a "chic diagnosis" and it's not anything anyone wants to have because there is NO CURE. What parent wants their child to be diagnosed with a problem that makes life difficult at least -- and in many cases, makes independent living impossible -- and has no cure?

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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. you won't like it
therefore you will discredit it but from real doctors:

Although this syndrome was first described by the Viennese pediatrician Hans Asperger in 1944 and, over the past few years, has become an increasingly popular diagnosis du jour, Osborne asks the critical question, Is Asperger's syndrome truly a variant of autism, a distinct psychopathologic entity, or merely eccentric behavior?

Alas, we are a nation fixated on "pathologizing" many complex demeanors -- ranging from the overanxious state of some adults to the behaviors of children who have more energy and shorter attention spans than is comfortable for their overworked teachers or parents. Sadly, our reflexive need for diagnosis is accompanied by an uncontrollable urge to treat with a torrent of potent medications. One can only wonder what future generations will conclude about our society's eccentric impulse to medically label and chemically alter those human behaviors that are temporally or culturally viewed as abnormal. Perhaps sometimes, as Osborne nods to Freud, a quirk is just a quirk. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529208
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #59
90. Most of that quote is about ADHD,
which I agree has various drug treatments and is probably over-diagnosed.

But that is completely different from autism. Interesting that you quote someone as quoting someone else named Osborne asking a "critical question" about Asperger's -- but you never quote an answer specific to that question from Osborne (whoever he is). Only to the separate issue of ADHD.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Oh, there are "cures" for sale.
Chelation, compression therapy, emotional face therapy, etc.

Maybe (probably?) you've seen a different world than I have, but there's a wide market offering autism diagnosis, and cures.

Sadly.

Of course, since much of this market is based on a false diagnosis, they can rake money in on false cures.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
91. This post originates from the third floor, thank you very much.
"basement dwelling shut-ins"?! :wtf: Is Michael Savage posting here now??
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #91
114. Top floor here, two Spectrum-havin' people in a condo with a GREAT view. nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #114
134. 2nd floor 1BR apartment. 4 blocks from campus.
:)
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
66. I think my ex had Asperger's.
I ordinarily wouldn't try to psychoanalyze to the point of diagnosis, but I think it's pretty reasonable in his case. The shrinks that did see him back in the day had actually diagnosed him with autism, as he didn't talk until he was 5. He certainly has the social awkwardness, and proudly calls himself a misanthrope. But he is scarily bright and while he has some OCD-like issues (mainly insistence on everything in the house being in its proper place), he didn't engage in a lot of repetitive behaviors.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #66
92. It does happen that someone who as a child was diagnosed with autism
could improve to the point where he was left only with Asperger's. That probably is exactly what happened with your ex.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #92
133. There is no difference between "High functioning autism" and Asperger's in adults.
Asperger's is just High functioning autism without a speech delay.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #133
171. Not entirely.
When my son was being diagnosed, there was significant disagreement between psychologists whether he had aspbergers or HF autism. Eventually they decided on HFA because he didn't show the trademark hyperfocus on one topic or precocious academic skill.

Absent that one sided verbosity and preoccupation with a single subject, a person would be diagnosed as HFA. Granted, whether there *should* be two diagnoses is a different question.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. You mean like my
wife who is a doctor and has parents coming in and out looking for reasons why their kids fail? Looking for something to blame? Wanting pills to cure a disease of the imagination?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. So does your wife tell parents of children who have learning disabilities
or an Autism-spectrum disorder that their kids are "lazy and stupid," to use your terms?

She's a jerk if she does.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Deleted sub-thread
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. nawwww
she uses real science to diagnose problems, not readers digest articles.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Autism-spectrum research IS real science. I would defy your wife to
assert that it is not.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. she's not saying it is
she says it's one of the most mis-diagnosed areas in medicine. Parents screaming for answers in clinic and want only drugs to solve the laziness of some of their children. Neither one of us deny autism, we have very close friends with autistic children. We deny those who self-diagnose for reasons of blame. "I didn't accomplish this because....I didn't succeed because....I have no friends because...." Insert disease as needed.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. If there's a pony in your posts in this thread, it's covered entirely with
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 04:22 AM by saltpoint
barnyard byproduct.

You assert that because a behavioral condition is sometimes misdiagnosed that it should be afforded less respect as a source of difficulty or suffering for those who have it.

And then you ridicule the condition as a handy reach-for for the parents of kids who struggle with that condition.

Next you trot your wife, who is not even present, to somehow back your claim that parents are falsely claiming Autism-spectrum disorders to "justify" their children's difficulties? And then call those kids lazy and stupid?

Jesus, what crap.

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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. You could make a good argument for that
If you were talking about ADHD. That has been the diagnosis of the decade. And there are drugs for it. But autism disorders are very specific. I am clearly out of the loop on this but I thought there were no drugs for this disorder.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. There are no drugs specifically for the disorder.
Though sometimes people with autism take medication for depression or anxiety or other symptoms for which there is medication.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #39
77. My son takes ADHD meds
It helps quite a bit.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #77
102. Absolutely, I don't doubt it
But there are some kids who are prescribed these drugs when they may not really need them.

When my kids were little, school personnel tried to foist that diagnosis on one of them, and it was way off base. He was not distractable at all. He was sluggish and tired; we later found out he had an autoimmune disorder. When I brought my son to a local pediatrician, he told me - in an effort to convince us it was no big deal to have him try out Ritalin - that he prescribed this drug all the time for numerous students at a nearby private school, just so they could study better.

But just because ADHD is over diagnosed does not mean it is not a perfectly legitimate issue for many kids. And the drugs can make such a huge difference in how they do in school.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #77
135. I take Concerta (time-release Ritalin) for the executive dysfunction aspect of my AS
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 10:47 PM by Odin2005
Don't expect be to be able to do any multitasking without it! :rofl:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Just to note that there is no drug for autism or Asperger syndrome
so no one would seek the diagnosis for their child in order to get them a 'pill' for their problems.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. You're being too logical here. Can't wait to hear the response to this. n't
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #46
75. Response? LOL...
you really expected one?

I'm sickened by the breathtakingly ignorant, Republican/Thatcherite-like comments in this thread. Kudos to all of you who bothered attempting to reason with that person. I don't think there's any point really. Might as well bark back at a dog.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #75
136. Neurotypicalist bigots suck.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #72
93. Good point, Odin2005. And the fear of discrimination is uppermost
in parent's minds', too, when they are struggling with the ramifications of that diagnosis. The last thing they want is a label that could negatively affect people's treatment of their child for the rest of their life.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #93
103. Which means the parent survey cited in the article
Could represent an under, rather than over, count of the numbers of autism spectrum kids out there.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
76. If it is difficult to diagnose...
... it is the fault of your wife and her "medical science" peers.

THEY developed the DSM IV criteria which defines ASD as a collection of subjective behavioral markers.

Autism is an epidemic, and lazy medical professionals use the fact that some of the increase is attributable to changing diagnoses and greater awareness to fraudulently explain all of it.

Isn't internet anonymity cool! You just told me that I am faking my son's illness, a feat that you couldn't do in person. At least not twice.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
104. LOL - many people seem to enjoy mouthing off anonymously
It does make you wish for face-to-face contact when people use that anonymity to spread mischief.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #76
146. Bet I would
Edited on Tue Oct-06-09 02:48 AM by MichaelHarris
If they are self diagnosed by you, try me sometimes. BTW, don't you go on about all the guns you have in the gungion?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I hope your wife has more compassion and understanding than you do.
Clearly, she has more medical knowledge.

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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. Bedside manner counts for a lot.
However, a great many children are being labeled with a vague "diagnosis", based on entirely subjective factors. NT's like hearing it.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. I don't need a bedside
manner, I learned a long time ago here at DU to not really care about the debate. Eats up your soul when you do that. I say my piece and let it ride.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
78. One hopes.
You'd think a doctor could do better.
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mamaleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. Isn't ADHD part of the autism spectrum?
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 02:55 AM by mamaleah
With as many kids are being diagnosed with that these days, no wonder it would appear autism is on the rise.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. No, it is not. Though it is possible for an individual child to have both
conditions, they are entirely separate diagnoses.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mamaleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
73. Thank you.
I thought I had read it is sometimes part of the spectrum. That would indeed skew results.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #73
79. There are doctors who argue that it should be.
... but pnwmom is right, it's currently not.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. I'm curious about what those doctors are saying because it doesn't
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 12:10 PM by pnwmom
make a lot of sense to me.

People with ADHD have trouble focusing and containing their energy, but they don't lack empathy or the ability to read faces (unless they have Asperger's as well). People with autism are often capable of hyper-focus but have trouble with empathy and social skills. If those diagnoses belong in the same continuum, then all the rest of us do, too.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. I have two children with ADHD, one fairly severe.
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 12:53 PM by lumberjack_jeff
The third has high functioning autism, but he benefits a great deal from ADHD medicine.

It's not all anecdotal. There is a chromosome abnormality which is strongly associated with both autism and ADHD

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/aalink.html

The behavioral differences between ADHD and autism are no more profound than the differences between a nonverbal autistic person and one with Aspbergers.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Thanks for the link! n/t
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #98
105. That is really interesting! I never knew they could be linked - nt
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. A recent study in the UK suggested a similar figure for adults...
most of whom had not received this diagnosis in childhood. The disorder is increasingly recognized and diagnosed nowadays. In the past, children with autism were diagnosed as mentally handicapped, emotionally disturbed, language impaired or psychotic or schizophrenic (nowadays pre-adolescent children are almost never diagnosed as psychotic or schizophrenic).

So it is a common condition but not a new one.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yes. As attitudes toward mental health have changed (too slowly but
increasingly surely), so have responses to impediments to learning. Adults and kids both deserve support.

More info & more awareness seem to make a big difference.

:hi:
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
33. Even accounting for increased awareness
The rise in autism spectrum disorders is just stunning.

It's about time we figure out why this is happening.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. It's a diagnosis change.
Developmental disorders can reflect social trends, it's not always a medical difference.

A child who "acts out", ignores his parents, does poorly in school, and doesn't integrate well with other children has had a lot of "diagnosis" in the last 100 years.

Currently, the big thing is ASD. It's quite fashionable.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. No, the increase just in the last five years is too big to be that alone.
That is the whole point of the OP. Asperger's has had a high profile since the 1990's; it hasn't been just discovered.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. Society has changed a *lot* in the last twenty years.
People who fared poorly on verbal cues? email/IM.
People who couldn't network well face to face? myspace/facebook.
People who couldn't network via long blog posts? twitter.

Heck, the fact that we're having this chat on something as ancient (relatively) as a web-board speaks volumes as to how this works.

Slicing it by arbitrary 5 year blocks:

90-95: Modern web gets built.
95-00: Web goes household-level.
00-05: Parents with "nerd kids" work with their kids on the web, figure out that text communication works better than face cues, or other things that ASD folks don't "get".
05-now: People start to realize that a "disorder" is a common thing, take their kids to doctors to "de-nerd" them, or at least, diagnose them... with something.

Looking at it another way, the ASD folks realized that they didn't have to be hated by their parents or siblings anymore, and embraced new technology.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. you better watch out
they will use the "freeper" word on you if you make too much sense.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. WP:AGF
I've been on the 'net a long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #65
81. Sometimes, it's simply not possible. n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
95. The person you're replying to didn't accuse people who've diagnosed themselves
with autism or Aspergers to be lazy or stupid, as you did.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #44
83. I think you're right about this
The change is mostly from how we're approaching the condition. But if you look at it more from a doctor/reasearcher's perspective, rather than a parent/teacher, we're still struggling to define & diagnose *something* and give it a name. I have a feeling that the more we understand what we call autism, the definitions will change. But it doesn't mean there's nothing going on in the less severe end of the spectrum, as some folks suggest.

What i hope comes out of the research is society being better able to adapt to autism - moreso than the other way around.
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gwsuperfan Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #33
45. FTFA
"Greater awareness, broader definitions and spotting autism in younger children may explain some of the increase, federal health officials said."

Do you even read the posts you reply to/comment on?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. You missed the key words: "MAY" and "SOME."
That still leaves a large increase to be explained.

How closely do you read the posts you reply to?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #33
50. Absolutely. And there is a researcher at Harvard who has some ideas.
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 04:48 AM by pnwmom
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. And many insurance companies EXCLUDE coverage for autism
so once a pediatrician jots down "suspected" possible autism in that 13 month old's chart, look out for a lifetime of "un-coverage"..
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #55
63. 13 months? WTF?
13 months is NOT OLD ENOUGH to make such a diagnosis.

It doesn't even make sense.

Is this a weird back door for parents to avoid infant care?

AAP recommends months 18-24.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HelenWheels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #63
85. I don't think it is impossible to diagnose all kids at this age
I knew before a year there was something amiss with my children. They never crawled, never put anything in their mouths, didn't talk, didn't like to eat. The docs didn't know much about autism spectrum disorders then and they weren't diagnosed until they were 8 and 12. One is aspergers and the other has Nonverbal learning disorder.
I don't know how CT or MRI work but if either could show the white matter (autism is an abnormality in the white matter) in the brain it could be diagnosed at any age.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
68. Thank god this Aspie has MN state medical coverage.
I have enough BS to deal with, I don;t want to have to deal with blood-sucking insurance companies.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #33
69. There is no "epidemic", just increased awareness, leading to more diagnosis.
The people screaming about an environmentally caused "autism epidemic" are proven frauds and liars out to manipulate emotionally vulnerable parents.

http://autismdiva.blogspot.com
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #69
106. Kids who have autism are hard to miss.
It is the milder forms that are a bit more subtle that could have been diagnosed differently in the past. I am curious what the numbers are for full blown autism vs autism spectrum.

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
80. Yes, it is an epidemic and it has an environmental cause.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
96. Doctors at Johns Hopkins and Harvard are saying the same thing.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. That is interesting.
I didn't read the whole thing (it's really long) but I thought this was gold
AT: Why are we seeing such a rise in autism? Is this real or simply
an artifact due to broader defi nitions and better reporting?
Dr Herbert: Certainly, there’s more awareness and more reporting.
The more affected people you have, the more you’re going to
see it and the more you’ll report it. And it’s on the news all the
time. There were children I saw during my residency whom we
would now call autistic, but we didn’t then. In these cases, the
problem back then was awareness. Regarding broader defi nitions,
I don’t think the diagnostic criteria have changed a lot in the past
15 years—certainly not enough to explain the 10-fold increase in
the numbers. Some people say, “Oh, they haven’t changed lately,
but it takes people time to learn what the new ones are.” Then
other people say, “Well, people get called autistic because that’s
how they get services, even if they aren’t really autistic.”
I think all of this is true, to one degree or another, but it begs
the question, do all of those lines of arguments exhaustively
explain how the numbers shot up from 3 to 4 in 10 thousand in the
mid 1980s to current fi gures of 1 in 150 or even more? A recent UKreport said 1 in 86 children are on the autism spectrum. You’d have
to be pretty confi dent that all those inferences explaining these
numbers away, such as “It’s just better diagnosis” and so forth,
were absolutely, solidly, the only possible explanation for such
striking increases. And if you are not absolutely clear about the
reasons why, then you had better treat this as a public health emergency
until proven otherwise.
I think there’s an emotional issue going on here, too, that people
are conservative, and they don’t want to say something alarmist
if it’s wrong. There is also cognitive dissonance—how could a
genetic disease truly increase? People don’t realize how tenuous
the evidence is for this truly being “genetic” so they treat the genetic
model of this condition as fact. Many of my colleagues who will
not consider the possibility of an epidemic have no vested interest
in anything that would bias their judgments except that this is
what they believe and it’s very hard for them to entertain anything
else. To consider that we may have an epidemic of autism and
childhood neurodevelopmental disorders is emotionally painful
because it raises profound questions about our environment, our
progress, our way of life, and what we deeply trust. To avoid asking
those painful questions, people try to maintain the assumption
that nothing signifi cant is changing.
But if you look at graphs of the number of new-to-nature molecules
that the chemical industry has produced, you get an astonishing,
exponential increase in substances on the planet that we’ve
never seen before. That’s just the physical substances, the chemicals.
The next thing that happens, when you start thinking about
this, is that it becomes so overwhelming that you go back to genetics
because it feels like at least we can study that in an organized
fashion, whereas looking at environmental factors would be total
chaos. This argument is one of the standard talking points of some
of my genetics researcher colleagues.
Advanced scientists should start to realize that the only way
they can maintain this point of view is to advocate advanced techniques
to study genetics and old-fashioned insensitive techniques
to study environment. They need to partition their intellects to do
this. As I’ve already said, we’re learning so many more sensitive
ways of measuring things, including the impacts of these new environmental
inputs, and this is so new that we have hardly had time
to think of how to apply these things. One of the expressions
around this that I like is, “Absence of evidence is not the same as
evidence of absence.” The intellectually honest thing to say is not
that there is no evidence, but that we have hardly started to look.
Then, when you get interested in looking, you see that there isn’t a
lot of support for such investigations, and there is a fair amount of
resistance. This becomes a political and economic question as well
as a scientifi c question. Who’s going to fund it, and who’s going to
get paid by which vested interest to shoot down whatever you say,
who’s going to sue you if you uncover anything that sheds a bad
light or creates potential liability, and all the other related considerations?
Given all these potential challenges, it’s ever so important
to think carefully and strategically about how to proceed.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. There's a lot of gold in there, lumberjack_jeff.
When you have sometime, you might want to read the whole thing. I'm very glad people like Dr. Herbert are making headway in the field.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. Wow, what a load of rubbish
Autism is one of the most heritable psychiatric conditions there is. There is a very strong correlation between autism and parents that are in highly technical fields.

"tenuous" by rear end.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #110
155. does it have to be either/or?
Can't you have a heritable condition that is increased in incidence by environmental triggers? I can understand you've come to a different conclusion, but why are you so adamant. It would be better to hear what you think about the study is flawed?

I also wonder why this issue so stirs people to anger? I would think that we would all be concerned together on this?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #155
166. Generally, environmental triggers can make symptoms worse, but it cannot "cause" autism.
The main exception is if the mom gets inflected with Measles while pregnant the kid has a much higher chance of being autistic (which is ironic given the hysteria surrounding MMR vaccines). People have an unfortunate tendency to equate Autism with the negative behaviors and think that if they reduce the negative behaviors they have "cured" the Autism. It's a mindset behind a lot of hucksterism. Us autistics can learn to manage in a neurotically world, but we are still autistic, and things in the environment can still set us off (I can't stand chemically perfume smells, ugh...)
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #110
165. Autism is not a psychiatric condition.
And there are no pills that deal with it.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #165
167. I was using the term loosely.
It's not a mental illness and was looking for a term that fit better.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #80
132. See my posting of the Time article on autistic adults in the thread, disproves the "epidemic claim.
The rate of autism on older folks is the same as in kids.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #132
172. That is an interesting link.
Thank you.

I'm not ready to agree that it disproves anything, but it's a question that should be asked in this country.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #172
176. You are welcome!
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
82. How to test and how to know the kid isn't making it up?
Mid-term observation.

Short-term diagnoses are often not accurate and long-term diagnoses may be a waste of time if symptoms are consistent enough.

Just my two cents; I'm not in the mental disorder biz or anything... I'm only a client...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #82
97. What 3 year old or 6 year old is going to be "making it up"?
The behaviors aren't something a young child would even think to make up.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
84. A grossly irresponsible headline that underlines responsible science.
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 10:23 AM by Donald Ian Rankin
Autism is a spectrum. Everywhere is somewhere on it - most people very near the "not autistic at all" end, some a bit further along and a few very autistic indeed.

Saying that 1 in 100 children "is autistic" conjures up images of 1 in 100 being severly autistic, a problem exacerbated by the fact that those are the ones who make good TV and good misery memoirs, and hence get publicised.

While I am quite prepared to believe that 1 in 100 children has an "autism disorder" - or indeed more than that - the large majority of those will be very mild Asberger's type things that really don't require very much special treatment at all.

Asking "how many children have autism" is like asking "how many children are tall". It's not a meaningful question. Rather, we should be looking at "how many children are between such and such thresholds, how many between such and such and so on".

FWIW, I probably have mild asbergers - I work as a mathematician, I have lots of mathematician friends who are also asbergers or very mildly autistic to one degree or another - it's a field that tends to attract us.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. Can the same not be said about any disease?
Is "heart disease" one thing? "Cancer"?

It seems grossly irresponsible when you assume as you do that most people with autism are just fine... because the ones you know are.

There are many, many people with autism who are nonverbal and/or who suffer grievously. This is epistemology. We know only what we experience. You don't experience the reality of most people with autism because, due to the nature of their affliction, you aren't exposed to them.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. a) Autism is not a disease; b) no, the same thing cannot be said about most diseases.

I know most people with *some form of* autism are fine, because the statistics show they are. Not just most, but the overwhelmingly vast majority, at that - there are far, far more very mildly autistic/asbergers people than there are severely autistic. It's not something I've studied myself much in great detail, but my sister and mother are both doctors very interested in it, so I've picked up quite a lot from them.

And with most diseases, and even most mental conditions, nothing similar is true - you either have measles/bubonic plague/cancer/Down's syndrome or you don't. Some people have them more severely than others, but there's a clear line.

But "autism" is a name ascribed to a set of symptoms, not to a specific medical condition - there are almost certainly a very wide range of things that cause very similar symptoms, and there is no clear line between "having lots of those symptoms" to "having some" to "having a few" (which pretty much everyone does; there isn't really a "having none whatsoever" category).

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Most conditions can be diagnosed with a microscope.
It's not irresponsible to write that 1% of children are diagnosed with ASD. And to say that ASD = Autism may be somewhat reductionist, but it isn't a big hyperbolic leap.

Autism is a specific medical condition which is defined by the presence of specific behavioral markers in a clearly defined proportion. Yes, there is some subjectivity inherent in the behavioral markers, but the diagnostic process eliminates other possible diagnoses (such as Rhett Syndrome) first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Diagnosis
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #84
153. How old are you? I am surprised at how many people I know with an autistic child in recent years
I only ever ran into one child with this problem until recent years. I know three different couples in my small circle with autistic kids, severly autistic. Maybe it si coincidence, but I am beginning to think there is something going on. There might be a component of location involved. But something seems to be going on and studies all over the world are seeing more cases.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
89. Wow. I remember when it was one in 600 and we thought that was high
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #89
107. It is 1 in about 100 at my school
I work in a school with 350 students. I know of 3 with very pronounced, unequivocal autism. I am not aware of any with Asperger's but, unless they were in one of my classes, I would not be told. So that is a high rate of autism in this small sample.

There may be more awareness or there may be an increase. It doesn't matter because it is a huge problem, and we really need to find out why it is happening.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. I'm not a "problem". I'm just "different"
I reject the offensive "autism is a horrible tragedy" meme spouted by eugenicist/"pro-cure" groups like Autism Speaks.
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #109
113. For some people...
...it IS a huge problem. Autism affects people to varying degrees.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. Who I am as a human being is a "problem"?
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. No. But I've worked with children who have autism...
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 09:56 PM by TCJ70
...to such a degree that they won't be able to ever post on a message board. And for them, and me to a lesser extent, that IS a big problem.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. Beware the bigotry of low expectations.
I have heard many stories of "low functioning" autistics assumed to be severely mentally retarded that termed out to have perfectly normal intelligence once they discovered a way to communicate. The lady that runs this blog is an example:

http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. It's all in how you handle it...
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 10:24 PM by TCJ70
...if you realize the present day limitations of an individual, it can spur you to create solutions for the future. I apologize if my views came off as offensive, it was not my intention.

EDIT: You in that sentence equals the person observing an autistic person...not you personally Odin. :)
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #116
157. The kids I have known with autism
Will never have a regular job, will never marry and have a family, will always be dependents. To me that is tragic and sad, and a huge problem for society.

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #115
138. Who I am as a human being is separate from any conditions I might have.
The same is true with you.

If your autism rendered you unable to speak, anyone who cares about you would consider it a problem.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. My Asperger's is part of who I am.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
108. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
112. you can see the differences in brain structure between ASD and Neurotypicals
in the MRI's, EEG/QEEG's etc.

ADHD you can see in a SPECT scan. The rise in diagnosis is real... If you really think it is overly diagnosed, start having people get the scans. There are a lot of physical comorbidities that go along with these diseases.


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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
117. jeez, what's with all these deleted messages?

can't even imagine what that was all about. :shrug:
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. they involved
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 10:13 PM by MichaelHarris
those who self diagnose, it seems DU is onboard the self-diagnose train. I talked about a generation of people who are self-diagnosing themselves into pudding. We no longer have to take credit for anything, we have syndromes! We look right into the intangible and completely skip the environmental. Some people are just shitty parents and raise dumb-ass kids. Not according to the self-diagnosers though, it's a syndrome!!!!!

I have to study for an Anthropology mid-term so I'll have to leave the discussion. Actually I could stay, fail the test and blame it on a syndrome.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. Don't forget the part where you mocked someone who really has been diagnosed.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. yup
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 10:16 PM by MichaelHarris
and I'm still mocking them for defending this self-diagnosing craze. It really is a slap in the face of those who really suffer.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. Good luck on your exam.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Thanks
I have about 30 Anthropologists and their theories to memorize.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #121
154. huh, I have three friends with autistic children, all diagnosed. Why the anger?
Maybe I need to read all the threads but your tone hit right away.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #117
123. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
118. "...Humans expected to make some sense in 3 or 4 generations." nt
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
125. Seems rather high
I'm always skeptical of these personality disorder claims that could be bent so far out of whack as to identify relatively normal kids as being diseased.

Kind of reminds me of the ADD scare, most of those characteristics also applied to a normal, bored kid. Like a kid forced to sit through an annoying examination.

Not that I think ADD and autism are fictitious, merely over diagnosed.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #125
128. I really wish you luck
maybe you'll get a different mod that will let dissent stay, mine got deleted. My wife, a physician for over 15 years was called an idiot, that post stayed. I do hope you fair better than I did.
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #128
137. Hope so
seems to be a very touchy subject for some people.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #128
158. Your tone was the problemm not your opinion - nt
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #125
130. I started getting suspicious...
...when OCD was linked to Tourette's, and Tourette's linked to Asperbergers, and...

Like you, I don't think any of the above are fictitious, but include far too broad a "spectrum." Any broader, and we will ALL be diagnosed with autism.

Flame away, folks.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #130
148. I think
I wore them out. Probably looking for the next big "illness" to blame something on.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #125
149. It's pretty hard to mistake a "relatively normal" kid for a spectrum kid.
Autism-spectrum syndromes are not "personality disorders"; they are neurological issues that feature sensory integration difficulties, information-processing glitches (like prosopagnosia), and social-processing glitches.

A personality disorder (like Borderline Personality or Narcissistic Personality) is like a computer with a bad OS: there is something wrong in the software at a low level. AS syndromes are like a computer with a faulty mouse, an incompatible video card, and memory-allocation errors: the software is affected, but the cause is in the hardware.

Tucker
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #149
173. The very fact that it is called a "spectrum"
suggests that there is a very wide range of cases. Since that is the case then how can you be sure where the range stops? The neurological cause (ie actually mapping the cause within the brain) is very unclear, it is defined by it's symptoms at the moment.

And right now those symptoms can be applied to mostly normal, although perhaps slightly odd, children who are not suffering from autism. For instance, poor social interactions, poor communications, limited scope of interests. Hell that describes a lot of budding geniuses.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
131. Time: For the First Time, a Census of Autistic Adults (There is no "Epidemic")
I repeat, THERE IS NO EPIDEMIC!!!

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1927415,00.html

---

Among the many great mysteries of autism is this: Where are all the adults with the disorder? In California, for instance, about 80% of people identified as having an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) are 18 or under. Studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Protection (CDC) indicate that about 1 in 150 children in the U.S. have autism, but despite the fact that autism is by definition a lifelong condition, the agency doesn't have any numbers for adults. Neither has anyone else. Until now.

On Sept. 22, England's National Health Service (NHS) released the first study of autism in the general adult population. The findings confirm the intuitive assumption: that ASD is just as common in adults as it is in children. Researchers at the University of Leicester, working with the NHS Information Center found that roughly 1 in 100 adults are on the spectrum — the same rate found for children in England, Japan, Canada and, for that matter, New Jersey.

This finding would also appear to contradict the commonplace idea that autism rates have exploded in the two decades. Researchers found no significant differences in autism prevalence among people they surveyed in their 20s, 30s, 40s, right up through their 70s. "This suggests that the factors that lead to developing autism appear to be constant," said Dr. Terry Brugha, professor of psychiatry at the University of Leicester and lead author of the study. "I think what our survey suggests doesn't go with the idea that the prevalence is rising."


---

Can we stop with the "Epidemic" scaremongering now?
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #131
139. You were born in 86-BEFORE the Autism epidemic hit.
FYI-Before the movie Rain Man came out NO ONE knew what the fuck Autism was-that movie came out in 1988 and believe me, it was stunning to watch because people had never seen that kind of behavior before!

And that character in the movie was higher functioning than most children with Autsim!

To say that adults with Autism were just never diagnosed is TOTAL BULLSHIT because with regular old Autism, believe me, parents, teacher and doctors would have noticed by preschool or kindergarten!

We're talking tantrums, poop smearing, lack of eye contact, major educational delays, little if any speech, etc.

You're gonna tell me that parents wouldn't notice that?! Come fucking on!!! Get real.

Sorry, but this is NOT behavior that would fly under the radar and pass unnoticed-many of these kids are UNMANAGEABLE and believe me, parents notice their own out of control kids!!!


The very biased story you posted might make you feel better but it's total bullshit because without intensive therapy and biomedical intervention, this current epidemic of kids with Autism WILL NOT grow up to live on their own as adults.

It just simply AIN'T gonna happen.


FYI-THE AUTISM EPIDEMIC IS REAL.

Deal with it.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #139
140. They were just called "mentally retarded" or warehoused in institutions.
And most autistics are not of the most severe form that makes up people's stereotypes about autistics.

"poop smearing" :eyes:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #140
142. Wrong. Someone who is mentally retarded is not the same as someone who has Autism.
You obviously do NOT know what you are talking about.

That you even question that some parents are dealing with autistic kids who smear their poop and/or bang their heads on the wall or floor shows your total ignorance on the subject.

If you want to be such an expert why the hell don't you read books about the Autism epidemic before you spew the shit you spew?!

Here's a list for you:

Unraveling the Mystery of Autism and Pervasive Developmental Disorder: A Mother's Story of Research & Recovery by Karyn Seroussi and Ph.D. Bernard Rimland

Louder Than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism by Jenny McCarthy

Mother Warriors: A Nation of Parents Healing Autism Against All Odds by Jenny McCarthy

Healing and Preventing Autism: A Complete Guide by Jenny McCarthy and Dr. Jerry Kartzinel


Open your mind-you might actually learn something.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. Jenny McCarthy?
:rofl:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #143
144. Another closed mind. No surprise. Read my sig line because that says it ALL on this subject. nt
Edited on Tue Oct-06-09 12:59 AM by earth mom
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #144
151. sig line presuposes that something is "truth" to begin with.SImply because something's ridiculed
doesn't make it into "truth".
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #144
170. And they also laughed at Bozo the Clown...nt
Sid
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #170
175. First, he is ridiculed. Second he is violently opposed. Third, he is accepted as being self-evident.
yay, go Bozo! You are The Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #142
147. or
open your mind and give a bunch of money to people hawking fake science books
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #142
150. Can you read? What part of "were" did you miss?
"They were just called "mentally retarded" or warehoused in institutions." Yes, they WERE in the PAST called mentally retarded or warehoused in institutions. To deny that they WERE treated like that in the PAST is foolish.

As your wrote:
If you want to be such an expert why the hell don't you read what posts say before you spew the shit you spew?!
You obviously do NOT know what you are talking about
Open your eyes-you might actually learn something.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #142
163. I never said autism was the same thing as mental retardation.
Edited on Tue Oct-06-09 08:22 AM by Odin2005
I said that autistics were usually labeled "mentally retarded" or "Childhood Schizophrenic".

I read actual scientific stuff on Autism Spectrum Disorders from people like Temple Grandin, Uta Frith, Tony Attwood, and Simon Baron-Cohen. not hucksters like Jenny McCarthy.

Jerry Kartzinel? Pure hack. http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2007/10/jerry-kartzinel-and-lying-about-nature.html
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #140
152. I did a nursing rotation thru "state mental institution" back early 70's. omg
There were a lot of people who were just like me and a lot of people who had serious problems. Everything from people with dents in their heads from lobotomies to, yes, those "poop smearing" non-communicative people to schizophrenics to severely developmentally delayed to young women who were sexually promiscuous.

It was quite an eye opening time.

Times changed, diagnoses changed so no longer was "schizophrenic" the catch-all but had a more specific set of signs/symptoms to be diagnosed. There didn't used to be "borderline personalities" either, but that became a new diagnosis.

I can see there being more diagnoses of autism, rather than "mentally insane" like they used to be.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #152
159. It makes sense that autism must have been assumed to be
mental retardation in those days. And we would not have seen them in the schools because kids in that boat did not go to regular schools then, if they were even at home.

It still seems that autism has risen dramatically though.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #159
168. In fact, many "lower functioning" autistics that were thought to be MR actually are not.
The lady who runs this blog is an example: http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #152
164. Yep. People weren't "alarmed" about autistics when were all stuffed in institutions.
Out of sight and out of mind. :puke:
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #131
156. This study does not indicate what you attribute to it
The study is with a very small sample and says itself that it should not be used for general observations but rather more research should be done.

Secondly, it only discusses rates for those in their 20's and up, which would not generally include recent upticks in young children, if that is indeed occurring. So this study does not say that there could not be a recent change in rates. In fact the other study mentioned more credibly suggests there may be a change in rates.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
160. I am appalled to find a thread full of misinformation like this on DU.
Several of you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

First and foremost, one does NOT self-diagnose oneself as autistic. There is a battery of tests that children have to go thorough and knowledgeable people to be seen before a child is labeled autistic in a school system.

Second, it is not a mental disorder as much as it is a mental disability or inability. Based on my experience, those on the milder end of the spectrum learn just fine but are unable to give a feedback that is easily recognizable. That results in a lot of frustration on both sides. Those with a more severe form of autism are unable to do that much.

Any way you want to look at it, a rise of diagnosis from 5 in every 10,000 births back in 1991 to the current rate of 1 out of 150 or 1 out of 100 indicates that something is affecting our environment and our children. We're probably poisoning ourselves. The biggest problem is whether it is affecting our gene pools and therefore will have a permanent effect or whether its something where if we can end by finding out the cause and removing it from our environment.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #160
161. I am not sure that the posters you are thinking of
are entirely rational people.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #160
177. Do you think changing diagnoses standards and acceptability of diagnoses affects #s?
Serious question. Diagnosis standards have changed over the yrs. And acceptability of getting a diagnoses (rather than hiding or warehousing someone) along with being able to work with it better has changed also.

No, I am NOT saying it is a mental illness, but saying that 30 yrs ago it was considered such for many and they were shunted into state mental institutions. Now there is better understanding and support available, so I think some are not being diagnosed with that old catchall "schizophrenia" but more accurately with autism.
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kitfalbo Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
162. Chicken Little
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

There is no difference between AS rates in adults vs children. It is more easily diagnosed in children because they have yet to create strategies or coping mechanisms. It's already been mentioned that there were many previous diagnosis that would be inaccurate in today's acumen of psychological treatment. That is not to say that it won't be different in another 50 years.

There is no cure, and honestly most who have the high functioning variety would not wont it or would find the idea repulsive. Generally there is a dislike for autism speaks among them. I know protests are being planned.

As for self diagnosis, for some adults because of the difficulty of psychologists to understand the learned functioning aspect of the disorder it is almost all they have unless they get an understanding one. It also involves more interviews or recollections of childhood to snap shot the youthful behaviors, though that too is an inexact process because the diagnostic process has some faults. The biggest one probably being a label of lack of empathy which is always an annoyance because it's more of a lack of being able to project or interpret the proper ques when in such situations where empathy is active.


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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #162
169. It's mass hysteria.
Autism Speaks are a bunch of eugenicist hucksters.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #169
174. Autism Speaks is run by neurotypicals who don't listen. nt
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