If these insane wars we made and continue to fund along with

the massive amount of taxes and lives lost do continue without stepping back and thinking in realistic terms , then it's OVER.

I don't give a damn who is president or how he or perhaps someday she is looked at and admired , if we don't stop this and put all those responsible for starting this madness behind bars then forget about a future. We cannot continue on like this and turn a blind eye to it or buy into party lines and somehow wish it away or hope it will change because we think it can, it simply cannot.

We talk about healthcare and jobs and student loans and education and science and global warming , which is all fine and dandy and much needed. But how in the hell does anyone with one ounce of common sense and a calculator think this will ever happen when we fund attacks on other countries and make mostly weapons here and not much else and weapons are made to blow up , gone , add to that they kill people and destroy what they have built, money gone just like burning a cigarette or filling a landfill with waste produced by garbage.

Face it we cannot have both so we either buy into the lie of what they call war which are attacks to protect corporate interests or we have peace and food and all the other things we need. Pick one because that is exactly what it all boils down to. YOU CANNOT have both , not ever and certainly not anymore.

All I see on most sites are posts on how great this person is and how wonderfull that one is or how this one stod up and these pale in comparision to the posts that depict personal loss and horror stories we all know exist and we all know we could be the next one to tell one of these stories of absolute horror and suffering.

Yet what do people do , they put all their faith in a figure heads like some gods that will swoop down and save us all.

BULLSHIT , ain't going to happen.

WE either put down the racist crap and hate crap and sexist crap and party crap and war crap and get it together or it's OVER!!!!!!!!!! For all of us.

Bush put through massive taxes, and paid for the war by borrowing the money. At no other time in history did the US ever fight a war without raising taxes.

So, relatively and historically speaking, Americans have a light tax burden. That is actually one of the problems we have now. American's want services but are unwilling to fund them. I mean, really, we are supposed to cover every American's Health Care and it must be revenue neutral.

Realistically, the US is not going to leave Iraq before 2012, and may have bases there for decades with small numbers of troops. We are not even close to winning in Afghanistan, provided someone will define "winning." Bush took us into these wars without an exit strategy because the Republican/Conservative/NeoCon vision of foreign diplomacy had force as its centerpiece rather than working in cooperation with other nations. They are not going to be over anytime soon, so we had better get used to it. And, if we were actually willing to take responsibility as a nation we would ask for massive taxes to pay for our wars of choice rather than complain about them.

Airplanes, helicopters, ships and trains!

In Afghanistan:
(1) The current Afghan government is kept in power by the US and NATO forces. Few of them would last a week if we left suddenly because the government doesn't have a military or police department to speak of. Do we let them die or take them with us?
(2) What do we do about thousands of people who cooperated with the US and NATO who would be hunted down, tried, and executed by the Taliban Government. Should we just say, "Have fun in the Next Life."
(3) The sudden removal of US forces in Afghanistan would leave the country a crazy quilt of various militias who would immediate collapse in a war to decide who is top dog? So we are to tell the innocents who get slaughtered in the cross fire, sorry your babies had to die that way.
In Iraq:
We have an agreement signed with Iraq to remain there trough 2012, and they would have to sign off on our leaving suddenly. So far, as the US has moved forces out of Iraq there has been an upsurge in violence that the current Iraqi Military and Police forces can not handle. Leaving suddenly would lead to greater violence and death, for which we are responsible.

Just leaving is not a option in these areas. It takes time to extract a military force without destabilizing the nations where they are in combat.

And that could happen just like all the bases we still have all over the globe and are paying for . How long is long enough to satisfy you?

This idea sounds like oh well lets be a safe driver and get it shoved up our ass by insurance companies so we can pay for the ones who take the risk because they feel they wanted to.

More than 65 years after the end of WWII we have troops in those nations, part of long standing strategic ties. Not one of the Presidents asked me my opinion about that.

We are still at war in the Korean Peninsula, our forces there work under a temporary cease fire that could end any day or never end. Our agreement with South Korea does not allow us to simply walk out more than 56 years after it was over. No President in all that time ever asked my my opinion.

Forces in Iraq are determined by the Status of forces agreement signed by Bush. Though some in the Iraq government have suggested moving up the timetable, we will be there until 2012, and American bases there will remain after that. Neither Obama nor Bush asked me my opinion.

Afghanistan is held together only by the US and NATO forces. Should we leave there will be a bloodbath, as there was in Vietnam when the US left suddenly. I know people who disappeared after that sudden removal of US forces.

The US entered the Afghan conflict and the Iraq conflict without the President once asking me what I thought we should do.

No, foreign diplomacy is not run to please me. If it were, we would have never entered Iraq, and we would have used international cooperation after 9/11 and pursued those who committed that act of terrorism as criminals rather than with war. But nobody asked me.

But I do think that once we enter a war, we are obligated to the people we fight with and for to see that their lives are not terminated because we decide to leave. It will cost more American lives and money, but we have a responsibility to see it through. I believe in responsibiity.

Not their US installed puppet government but the people of these countries many of which we have been there for over 50 years , let them vote and say we want you to stay because after all you americans started this or let them tell us to get the hell out.

Certainly I am not suggesting the president asked you or me or anyone else , no they installed themselves by stealing elections and did this by fear tactics and out right lies.

So if you did not vote for them or support their tactics why should you be held responsible ?

I don't feel responsible because a group of lairs and war mongers decided it was in their best interest to profit off an attack on a country they installed Saddam or dealt with Bin Laden and supplied them with weapons.

Sorry but they need to be held accountable and pay for this not me. They then need to find their fate while put in front of the people of the countries they attacked for their own profit and greed and that can be the gift we offer the people they decided to attack at their will .

asked us to stay.

We left the Philippines, but moved everything to Guam, just next door. Their government is happy to have us. Those governments are all democratically elected. We have treaties with many governments that include bases as well as mutual defense pacts. It isn't matter of just letting people vote. Iceland is probably the most Democratic in the world, and even theirs does not work this way.

The US has a web of international agreements that keeps us in those countries. I suspect those agreements will come to an end when the empire collapses on itself. But it will be history not a desire to divest the US of empire that ends it.

are free and fair and by the people? No outside influence played a part in any of them? No special interests or corporate interests were involved or played a part in the out come?

I have a difficult time buying that.

We could move troops there whether their government liked it or not. Nice try.

we would still be in Vietnam. Why do you think we have a volunteer military (if you can call an economic draft voluntary)... and why you will not see a draft that affects more than just the working poor and underclass.

People don't care right now and could care less, as long as we beat some raggies down and show them the true power of murican power...

Sorry, but I suggest highly you read this book...

Deer hunting with Jesus... it will give you a clue of why Imperial citizens don't vote, don't care, and lets kick some brown ass. The similarities to the ebbing years of Rome, Spain and the British Empire are just amazing.

And since I might start working in about three weeks, it could be a holiday present for me.

that should decide what governments people should be allowed to have? We are not doing a very good job right now of keeping things under control within our own borders!

We are not Gods nor have we pretended to be. We are an empire. By its very nature, an empire meddles in the affairs of other nations for its own benefit. I strongly advocate divesting the US of its empire, but they haven't asked me my opinion about that. But I am confident that history will divest the US of its empire in the next decade.

I think we are doing fairly well in our own borders. The current administration is several orders of magnitude better than the last, though not perfect. There are a lot of pissed off people, of course, but so long as they only vocalize their anger rather than take up arms, we are doing OK. We could do better on healthcare, jobs, and a number of issues.

obligations. We would grow once more to a world leader in manufacturing and opportunity.

Even if we rid ourselves of them, that does not mean we will grow. A lot of our real economic wealth is a part of our obligations. A part of taking up the mantle of empire and Superpowerdom, we became the reserve currency and oil was priced in dollars after WWII. That freed the US from worrying a lot about how much money was in print and made the dollar everybody's baby. That status is now under threat and will be gone in 12 years or less. That will likely lead to massive inflation of our currency. Empire has its perks.

We would still have to produce goods that people want at a price they can afford. Right now, China specifically and Asia in general will out produce and undersell anything we make. Unless the nature of the globalized economy changes back to what it was 40 years ago, we will find it very difficult to keep up.

But, in light of what is already happening in Iraq, and what is already happening in Afghanistan, and what is already happening in Gaza (with the tacit approval of the US), your argument is completely empty.

Yes these attacks won't end anytime soon but all of us american did not support them . I did not , not for a second. So then find a way to tax those who were so supportive of them and bought into the last admins damn lie our of fear created by the media propaganda machine.

Call it what ever you like . I do not support attacks on any country for resources or for any other reason. The key word here is CHOICE . Who's was it , that's who should pay, so I point to the corporations who had their own interests to protect at many others expense. That was part of my point.

I have no idea but if you supported these attacks then go ahead pay but don't put the burdon on everyone who didn't vote for the last admin and their lies.

Just because this is the USA does in no way imply that all the people wanted this horror and many did all they could to stop it. DO the crime , do the time.

At the same time if we want to change this insane attitute that all are responsible for these war crimes then we must all pick up those in our own country and not judge them but rather help them back on their feet . Now that I am for simply because they meant no harm and any one of us could wind up there but certainly not everyone of us are willing to kill for profit or resource and that's what these attacks are all about.

So I say let the one who profited off this horor py for it as well as those who supported it whether because of greed and or fear or their vote which who can say what that was since both 2000 and 2004 were stolen elections so add the freaks who pay for this madness who put out these machines in the first place. I think that is only fair and humane. They took the risk and produced the lies. Why should everyone pay when most who did the right thing lost because of others crimes?

Once we elect our representatives, they are authorized to do business in our name. If we don't like what they do, we have the right to remove the from office. If a majority of Americans took voting as a real responsibility in every election, or Representatives would be a lot more responsive to us.

Once those taxes are paid, we do not have any further say in how they are spent, nor could we run a government that way.

I have yet to meet anyone who profited off Iraq or Afghanistan. I understand that a number of big corportions have done so, but I do not know their owners. We all profited from the tax breaks under Bush, though if you make more than $100,000.00 you profited disproportionately. I do not. We will all pay for these wars in greater taxes and a broken economy for a long time to come. That is part of our civil responsibility as citizens of this country.

And if they break it they are to be removed and jailed. No one can say if every american old enough to vote voted what the outcome might be , it's never happened. It should be at the very least done by popular vote not delegates who have something at stake to lose.

I don't see where we were allowed the right to remove them when impeachment was right off , off the table . This we can attribute to our reps and speaker of the house.

If we had done this we would have not been in so deep as we now are so I have to dissagree with you here.

Everything else is an illusion.

We got to see that when we were in Mexico City and Obama came to visit.

A whole section of a busy area of Mexico City was closed to all non essential traffic.

Marines in full battle gear (Mexican before you think about it), Presidential Guard, police (insert alphabet soup here), VIP protection Detail, Federales, as well as Secret Service and FBI created a security cordon from hell.

When AF 1 came for a landing they actually closed the International Airport for an hour, one of the busiest airports in the world. They prevented people taking any photos.

Oh and whole sections of the air space in Mexico City were closed for any of five Marine One Choppers. That included police and air ambulances that could not enter certain sectors of the air space over a city of 20+ million people.

As I said, Americans don't get it, but that was not an elected President visiting a sister Republic, but Caesar... visiting a province in the Empire.

And yes, the Mexican Press got it... perfectly well. Oh and does not matter if the Emperor is a Republican or a Democrat... it is still the Emperor, and the needs of Empire take precedence over all those political niceties. And it does help that Imperial Citizens refuse to engage in their duties and actually ahem, vote... or pay taxes or do anything else that is the function of the citizen. Welcome to the New Imperial Rome.

was for us to see throught this and offer a solution that rises above the ignorance and illusion , to bring it down to reality.

We either do that and damn soon or we will as i do fear fail. Not that we have not many time over already but this is near the end and the time is now or never to turn this around or it is the end.

I am not pro-empire. People need to get their heads out of the clouds and realise leaders serve leaders for gain at the sacrifice of all citizens across the entire globe.

I won't be here to see the outcome of most of this. I am not young anymore nor do I have a future ahead of me to be realized. But I have seen a lot and not through rose colored glasses but through reality.

I never felt the citizens in mass really deep down have the desire to take resource from other citizens , I always felt they would reach a fair trade rather than rob and steal and murder.

THe issue is the people through mutual like minded greed, climb up front and sell the lies from all across the globe and in their rise to power stand on the shoulders of all of us.

Perhaps I'm to idealistic to be on this ball.

What we don't need is another empire because if we allow this as people of the world we all lose and that includes the power structure in all their gold and glory and delusion , add greed to that as well.

They remind me of that persistant sticker weed , that no matter how many times you cut it down or pulled it out by the roots it still sprung up somewhere else in the path to get you and everyone else who chose to look at things for the better.

partly Imperial citizens don't give a fuck or could care less.

And when the Empire collapses... and that is coming, ANOTHER empire will replace us... that is almost a law of history. We are on the way down. That will happen, AT MOST, by 2018.

But Imperial Citizens do not get a say, nor, for the most part, do we care to have a say.

We are not exceptional and we are about to learn that.

You ended up with a few extra bucks, but with less to spend them on and at higher prices. It was a placebo to keep you passive.

that is the truth...

It does not matter who is in DC, presumably as the US President.

People abroad get it... when the President visits the projection of force is that of an Emperor, not a democratically elected President.

Americans don't understand that.

So until the Empire collapses, our obligations will be there.

Oh and when it collapses (and in my view it will in the next few years) it could be a disaster for the US for many reasons, including civil war and dissolution.

But what Ozymatrizax said about Americans wanting services but not willing to pay for them... true... it is called civic responsibility and in the US... it is long gone.

The empire will fall. We will be replaced, probably by China and India, by 2020. But falling won't be easy. Our consumer economy is going to take a massive hit, probably through inflation of the US dollar as it looses its place as reserve currency and as the only money you can buy oil with. Other countries have already found they don't need us for goods, when they no longer need the dollar to buy oil it could get very bad.

You see, as long as oil is priced in dollars and we are the reserve currency, the only export that matters is the dollar. When that is gone it will affect everything.

You vote to get out and leave the polling place.

You vote to stay and off to basic you go.