Ammunition Bill Signed Into Law

Ammunition Bill Signed Into Law

SACRAMENTO, CA - Before the midnight deadline Gov. Schwarzenegger acted on 685 bills that were on his desk. He signed 456 and vetoed 229.

One of the bills that he signed was Assembly Bill 962. It requires handgun ammunition to be kept behind the counter where customers cannot access it without assistance. It also requires gun shop owners to thumbprint people who buy handgun ammunition, as well as record their identification and provide that information to police.

Schwarzenegger released a statement explaining why he signed this bill.

"To the Members of the California State Assembly: I am signing Assembly Bill 962.

This measure would require vendors of handgun ammunition to keep a log of information on handgun ammunition sales, store ammunition in a safe and secure manner, and require the face to-face transfer of ammunition sales.

http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=68596&catid=2

this can curb some gun violence.

This bill is absolutely worthless.

:)

:rofl:

Jesus why didn't we think of this before?

:think:

They wanted to cruise the hood here where I live packing heat when in case their drug deals went bad, but didn't want to break the CCW law....

:crazy:

will hurt any of the LA gangs at all.

I think it can ONLY help and I doubt if anyoine can justify their being hurt in any way by this..

That's who it will hurt.

The more important question is "Who will it help?".

I can see it now. Sweet ammo deals in AZ.

With the MASSIVE increase in gun and ammo sales, I sincerely doubt that waiting for your guns and bullets will be a deterent to firearms sales.

Because doing nothing doesn't seem to have worked very well to this point.

are the major source of gun crime, right?

:sarcasm:

:argh:

your analogy is BS and insulting to omen.

Has no tolerance for independent thinkers.

And the kid wins a cigar...

I'm an election judge, too. Imagine the hue and cry if I started requiring the thumbprint of every voter on Election Day. The backlash would be so fast my neck would twist off my shoulders.

....to turn a school, office or shopping mall into a slaughterhouse, I promise to give your argument the attention it merits.......

It was an analogy, for fucks sake, and a good one. Why do you need to try and inflame?

But seriously, when an abortion can wipe out a room full of strangers, I would support some minor restrictions on it, too.

These are the people who want THEIR rights at the cost of everyone rights. To kill and main because the Constitution hundreds of years ago said a few well-armed militia were need to protect the country, and now they are like an infestation (Zombie-like) spreading their poison everywhere.

I'm down if you are.

Lock and load!

Let me see your war face!

But I never get an answer.

My argument is that there should at least be minor restrictions on firearms.

...after you read post #5.

Yeah, I don't think your analogy works.

:spray:

i'm not sure that i get your...point?

no-

i definitely don't get what you're driving at.

And, unfortunately, the unintended consequence of reduced sales tax revenue for California at a time when every penny counts.

Plenty of time to destroy it in the courts.

I've been saving fired cases for about 20 years.

In a case and still allow you to seat a bullet. With rifles, if you try to charge a case that is already charged you get powder conspicuously spilling out.

Reloading requires extreme care, and the fact that this new law will encourage more people to start doing it may not be a good thing.

I would always run a flashlight up and down the 50 charged cases in the loading block. It was easy to detect a double charged case.

But since I was very careful to pay attention when charging cases to pick up a case, drop the powder and then put it in the block, I can't remember ever finding a double charged case when I used this flashlight technique out of the many thousands I reloaded. I also weighed the first ten changes and every tenth after.

I also tended to pick a load where if I was reloading a target load for .38, the double change would only result in a .357 load. If I was reloading a .357 mag load or a .44 mag load, I would pick a powder that would overflow the case if I accidentally double changed it.

One the range most of the problems I saw with reloaded ammo was bad primers. I suspected the reloader handled the primer with his fingers and got oil on it.

I did see one experienced reloader blow a .357 mag revolver apart, breaking the top strap and splitting the cylinder in half. At first he suspected the metal in the firearm as having a defect, but later believed the problem was leaving the powder in the powder measure overnight and moisture causing the powder to clump. He felt he might have dropped a triple load. He had been reloading for at least 30 years and this was his first major mishap. He was a NRA competitive shooter and the number of rounds he had probably reloaded was undoubtedly astronomical.

I never left the powder in the measure and when I emptied it was very careful to make sure the measure was clean.

I reloaded for many years and never had a problem with any of my ammo. In fact, I had more misfires with factory ammo by far.

I still have my reloading equipment and may decide to take up rolling my own again.

I understand components were hard to get recently because of the great ammo shortage after Obama's election. Ammo is beginning to come back on the shelves again and possibly reloading components.

I have the feeling that a lot of people have a lot of ammo stored up. If stored at proper temperatures in a dry environment it lasts for MANY years.

:)

But I'd like something that can accommodate .50 BMG. I'll probably end up buying a second press just for that.

I have been using an old Lee 1000 since the mid 80's. It takes me 4-5 minutes to load up a 50 round box of 9mm or .45 acp.

If anyone starts reloading and needs any assistance, feel free to PM me.

Notice who signed this, not Obama. A shot over the bow. Take that gun lobby.

They want to force everyone else to live in their version of utopia.

Being far left doesn't mean one is anti-gun.

She is noted.

Back in 1994, Democratic congressional leaders practically begged President Clinton not to include the "Assault Weapons Ban," outlawing guns which look like military weapons, in the 1994 crime bill, because it would be an electoral disaster. Clinton didn't listen, and a large tide of angry gun owners went over to the Republican side. In later years Clinton admitted in his book that the AWB was one of the three biggest reasons why Dems got slaughtered in 1994. Fortunately Obama seems smart enough to leave the issue alone. I just hope everybody else is too.

.. and the 1967 Mulford Act targeted at the Black Panthers.

go to the WH...

that its only the very few gun nuts who don't want to give away this right? This kind of legislation can only help Democrats come 2010.

They refuse to see the forest for the trees.

And an idiot tool, but that's not really relevant here.

Are you saying it's a win for the California Dems now?

the bill was signed by a california republican...

where will the fallout be?

Take that Free Repubcrap

Reality is much different.

Boy, it is amazing how blue steel can cloud your thought process and overwhelm a person's brainpan.


Oooohhhh you can't pull my gun from my warm live fingers even if it kills 50,000 people a year, because I may need to defend myself from the boogie mans.........:rofl:

They should think with their big head and not with their little tiny holsters.

The rhetoric never changes.

Your argument is neither profound nor intelligent.

a characteristic of theirs, and they are pretty secure in their sexuality too. In fact, I would bet that most of the gunnies here don't have a college education.........

But my opinion doesn't matter, I 'm just anti-gun and should be silenced.......by the pro-gun crowd here, much like yourself, who think that arguing with me is going to change my mind.. but since this is DU and not FREEPU, I can voice whatever damn opinion I want.

I see no point in trying to take you seriously.

You join a very select group of posters who can't actually have a discussion without resorting to childish retorts.
Bye!

"I 'm just anti-gun and should be silenced.......by the pro-gun crowd here, much like yourself, who think that arguing with me is going to change my mind"

If we want you silenced, why on earth are we attempting to debate? How does that make any sense at all?

Sorry, we aren't out to get you.



I'm sure you know a lot of really smart folks that don't own guns. I also know a lot of smart people who don't own guns. But I also know quite a few "really smart folks" that do own guns. My uncle is a mechanical engineer. And he owns a small collection of firearms.

How does your biased, closed minded thinking equate to statistically significant evidence?

"In fact, I would bet that most of the gunnies here don't have a college education........."

Well now you're just pulling ideas out of your ass.



Just an FYI, there are plenty of progressive groups that promote responsible gun owner. Many of these groups, like the Pink Pistols, push for minority group protection.

cya, peddle your gun bullshit in the gun thread where you folks can bitch about your 'rights' till the cows come home.

I don't contradict myself. Unlike you, I have thought intelligently about my stance on this subject.

and design fabrication systems for major aerospace companies. I also legally own firearms. So does my wife who is an attending at a well known hospital. Guns bans and drug bans, same stupid logic. Next time you are in greenwich ct or telluride co take a look around and marvel at the lack of violent crime.

Happy people with money tend not to shoot each other.

Some people may argue the right to not self incriminate or to due process if overrated. Hey they can always go change the constitution.

With a Chemistry minor. I perform quality control testing for a major food processing company out of the Midwest so that people aren't ingesting contaminated dairy goods. But don't tell anyone I'm not a dirt-farming Bubba or they'll make me hand over my assault rifles.

Working on a Master's in Information Systems Administration part time.

Most recently I've been deploying fiber across LA, TX, and OK. 1911 in the center console of my truck, soon to be Springfield XD compact in an IWB holster once I take my CHL class and get licensed.

Typical anti.

"I would bet that most of the gunnies here don't have a college education"

Well my sheepskin begs to differ. My mom's been an avid shooter for 25 and she has a college degree. My sister is hard-working nurse and she is a gun owner. Oh wait, my dad is a gunnie and he never went to college.....but.....He built and ran his own businesses for over 30 years and I'm willing to bet he was more successful than you'll ever be.

BTW, I don't think you should be silenced. Laughed at and exposed for the fraud you are but not silenced.

I'm a homeowner, gainfully employed, and quite secure in my sexuality too.

But my opinion doesn't matter...

Well, I have to give you credit for that.

Would have finished the M.A., but my son was born with 22q11.2 deletion syndrome (aka DiGeorge Syndrome) and I subsequently had neither the funds nor the time to finish my master's. It's still something I want to do, but money and time are still limiting factors at the moment. I'm also quite secure in my sexuality.

Oh, my little sister has two degrees, one in mathematics and one in engineering, from NC State and works as a professional engineer. She also owns guns, and is a damn good shot.

college educated folks own them too.

by the way, do me a favor, not a progun book, but will give you an inkling into one facet of the culture, I highly recommend a book.

Deer Hunting with Jesus.

Granted the picture is really limited to one section of the country, but will give you an idea of what is going on.

Oh and as a rough guess, you live in a city right? Nothing wrong with that, but a lot of this is city vs rural... as well as a section of the culture that is poorly understood, the Borderer culture... coming with the Scott Irish.

I got tired of his smug 'holier than thou' attitude- as though he knew something that all those poor rubes didn't. Generally a factual portrayal of the folks around Winchester (I have family in Front Royal, VA, and visited there every summer.)

and the culture for a novel... so that book was recommended by a Du'er.. right now readying a few more.

By the way the Royal Lunch sounds like a gun bar to go to...

Especially when Bageant is around the republican gal holding court...

It led me to another conclusion, we live in a caste society... in some ways as hard set as India's... the means of enforcement are different though.

Oh and say hi to the folks. Not all of us city folk (who came from somewhere else) hate them... but the ethnographic potential...

a large percentage of the regular shooters at the range I used to shoot at had a college degree and a well paying career. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, members of the ministry, engineers etc, etc.

Others may not have had a college degree but worked in fields that required a technical education. A good number owned their own businesses and were very successful.

Some were retired and had good pensions and savings.

Of course, there were people who were laborers working for minimum wage, but they were in the minority. Still they were good people who worked hard for a living. Education is not always a measure of intelligence. Often very intelligent people fall through the cracks and can not obtain higher education. Sometimes the challenges people face are hard to overcome. Our society does not always offer equal opportunity to all. The poor and the minorities face a hard struggle to obtain the education the well off take for granted. Often a persons parents are unable to afford a college education for their children. With only a high school degree from our fairly useless public school system, many people have to work multiple jobs in order to survive. Life isn't fair or easy to many and yet often the privileged who can afford education tend to look down their noses at those who struggle to put food on the table. I wonder if you fall into this category.

Despite your low opinion of shooters, they are representative of a wide cross section of our society. Obviously, they are far brighter than you imagine.


No, I don't believe that you should be silenced and you have every right to your opinion, but consider this when you say,

"But my opinion doesn't matter, I 'm just anti-gun and should be silenced.......by the pro-gun crowd here, much like yourself, who think that arguing with me is going to change my mind.. but since this is DU and not FREEPU, I can voice whatever damn opinion I want."

being open minded and willing to change your opinion is a measure of intelligence and maturity.


I am always willing to consider the arguments of those who are anti-gun and indeed, I have changed some of my opinions when presented with well thought out logical arguments in opposition to my own.

Life is a learning experience. Open your mind to other viewpoints and philosophies. Carefully considering what others say may make your life more rewarding. Don't lock your ideas and concepts of life in concrete.

And please stop considering yourself superior to many in our society who do not have a college degree. Your attitude is why so many Republicans accuse Democrats especially anti-gun Democrats of being elitist.

Many, many people lurk on DU and never post. Some find their way to the Gungeon. Posts such as yours can turn them off and we may lose potential converts to the Democratic Party. They don't expect to find all the posters on this sub-forum to be pro-gun, but if they notice intelligent discussions going on, they may decide to join in. They may start here in this dark and remote area of DU, but then they may journey over to the over brightly lit and well traveled areas. In time they may (if they are open minded) begin to reject the tired arguments of the Republican Party and see the faults in the positions of that party.

When you post here, you have a far broader audience than you can imagine. Often when I am doing research for a post using Google, I come up with links to DU. Rest assured others do also.

I hope you don't take offense at what I have said, but merely consider it to be constructive criticism.

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just like I would buy a ccw by donating 5000 to the re-election fund of the appropriate country sheriff in socal. That is how it is done. Same as nyc, gun control only impacts those who can not afford to bypass them legally.

dupe

Are you anti choice on abortion as well?


mark

and tell me again about who expresses raw hate.

Insults on this forum from those who are opposed to firearms are far more common than insults directed the other way.

I have no real fear of the "boggie man". I will point out that that statement could be interpreted as a racial insult to members of our society. But then, the basic object of gun control is to take firearms away form "those people". The KKK enjoyed riding roughshod over minorities for years until those disadvantage people gained the legal right to obtain firearms for self defense.

I would recommend you read this brief to the Supreme Court for the Heller decision. It might be eyeopening.

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/07-290/07-290.mer.ami.resp.gc.pdf

Surely you have better arguments to present than the tired penis canard.

I've owned firearms for over 50 years and none of my weapons has ever injured or killed another individual and hopefully never will. As a rough estimate, I've probably fired over 200,000 rounds and merely put holes in paper targets. While that may seem like a large amount, many shooters I've know have fired many times this amount.

The only man I ever knew who had shot another individual was a soldier in WWII who shot enemy soldiers in the invasion of Germany. This kindly old gentleman was a competitive shooter after the war and was an engineer who worked on numerous space probes including the Viking lunar landers. His firearms were never used to shot another person after the war.

It's a waste of my time to respond to your post but perhaps you will look at yourself in the mirror and consider what you said and how I replied.

You can compose far better posts than the one I am replying to and promote intelligent discussion.

Have a good night.

I wonder what the Republicans will have to say.
Of course, the Right Wing has pretty much disowned the Governator already.

It will be interesting to see how Californians react to this when they actually have to start giving thumbprints.

Most California gun stores have been seeing large parts of their clientele dry up as more people move to purchase their ammunition through cheaper online outlets. One of the biggest opponents to this legislation was Cabela's, which sells all sorts of ammunition through their website. Selling it to California residents will now become illegal. This essentially kills off the California bulk buyer market and the bargain hunters, forcing California gun owners to buy from retailers with often predatory markups.

It grants the retailers a market that was slowly evaporating.

OTC sales of handgun ammunition will be slow for years to come.

I just bought a few boxes of Federal 9mm from an online retailer for about $11. My local redneck gun dungeon wants $29 for that same box. No joke.

So, yeah, I'll probably buy a few thousand rounds before the cutoff. I'll need to buy a bunch of rifle ammo too. Even though the law doesn't cover rifle ammo, most retailers (including Cabela's) have already said that they won't sell ANY ammo to California if this passes. Keeping track of rifle amo vs. handgun ammo vs. dual use ammo is just too much work.

If not, then I foresee a blooming secondary market.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.html

I'm not sure but it appears that C&R licensees also have to have a "Certificate of Eligibility" which is available from the DoJ for an annual fee.

It's very confusing.

Their definition of retail is broad enough that it essentially catches everyone who will be exchanging money for ammunition. You can import, reload, or do whatever else you want, but even garage "retailers" will need to collect the ID and a thumbprint from buyers.

A black or gray market, like so many restrictive laws.

It will be illegal to have that ammunition shipped directly to a private citizen. People in California will still be able to buy ammunition online, they will have to have it shipped to a FFL holder who will transfer it to them after taking the indicated thumbprint, and information. Unless California ammunition dealers lower their prices significantly, the law won't change too much about their evaporating market.

That option exists for online purchases of firearms because federal law specifically requires that out-of-state gun purchases comply with the laws of the buyers state of residence. There is no such requirement for ammunition sales.

The problem here is twofold. First, the retailers in the other states would need to reconfigure their sales to support proxying ammunition sales to buyers in California, something that the other 49 states do not require. There is already a huge percentage of online firearms dealers who won't ship to California because they disagree with our system, and firearms have decent margins. What percentage of online ammunition dealers are going to be willing to deal with the hassle when you're talking about a low-margin, high-volume product like ammo? Cabela's and several other online stores have ALREADY announced that they're ceasing all online ammo sales to Californians. It may be theoretically possible, but they don't want to deal with the headaches.

The second part of the problem is with the FFL holders themselves. Many (possibly most) FFL dealers already do NOT proxy firearms sales for out of state purchases. Why would they, you're not buying from them! Those that do, generally do so because they're hoping to establish a repertoire with you as a regular customer. They want to help you buy your firearm, knowing that you'll be needing everything from bullets to cleaning supplies later. There is NO similar advantage for them to proxy ammunition sales. Doing so directly reduces their profit margins and undermines their ability to stay in business. A gun store owner would be stupid to proxy the sale of a competitors products. He could, theoretically, slap a "processing & holding fee" on the transaction to turn a profit (as many gun store owners already do when proxying firearms sales), but that would gut the discount you were expecting when you purchased online in the first place.

Oh wait they have a budget crisis? Possible default on munibonds? No way they would being passing all these useless and expensive do nothing gun initiatives unless they were flowing in money.

It will still be legal to buy 5,000 rounds at a Nevada gun show and drive it across the border, or even to have it shipped to yourself.

like access to mental health for the 50% of gun deaths that are suicide, or change to drug laws that drive crime. Those things take real work and effort. Those things are why there is no murder in greenwich ct or telluride, or most wealthy communities.

However fooling people so stupid that they actually think this has any impact on crime is so much easier. Easier to dazzle the morons with bullshit.